frustrated with the documentation
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Raoul Duke
Jul 16, 2014, 8:41:50 PM7/16/14
to ats-lang-users
frankly there are too many random disparate official places with
information about ats. most of the time i cannot find what i want.
even if i know i've seen it before. this is, i think, clearly an
impediment to adoption by new people.
also i suspect there isn't enough documentation. but it is hard to
know what is / not covered because i cannot see the sum total of
documentation easily.
please find a way to coalesce things. :-) this is not just a
nice-to-have if you want it to be more than an academic language.
$0.02
(in particular, i'm just trying to learn about ats/2 templates...)
information about ats. most of the time i cannot find what i want.
even if i know i've seen it before. this is, i think, clearly an
impediment to adoption by new people.
also i suspect there isn't enough documentation. but it is hard to
know what is / not covered because i cannot see the sum total of
documentation easily.
please find a way to coalesce things. :-) this is not just a
nice-to-have if you want it to be more than an academic language.
$0.02
(in particular, i'm just trying to learn about ats/2 templates...)
Brandon Barker
Jul 16, 2014, 9:47:54 PM7/16/14
to ats-lang-users
AFAIK, the only official places are the documents linked on this page http://www.ats-lang.org/DOCUMENT/
Or are you referring to something else?
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gmhwxi
Jul 16, 2014, 10:29:49 PM7/16/14
to ats-lan...@googlegroups.com
>>frankly there are too many random disparate official places with
information about ats. most of the time i cannot find what i want.
even if i know i've seen it before. this is, i think, clearly an
impediment to adoption by new people.
information about ats. most of the time i cannot find what i want.
even if i know i've seen it before. this is, i think, clearly an
impediment to adoption by new people.
For of all, ATS is a very rich and complex language. Documenting it
properly requires a huge effort that is simply beyond what I can do on
my own. I hope that a community of people will find it interesting to
contribute to this effort.
properly requires a huge effort that is simply beyond what I can do on
my own. I hope that a community of people will find it interesting to
contribute to this effort.
>>frankly there are too many random disparate official places with
information about ats. most of the time i cannot find what i want.
even if i know i've seen it before. this is, i think, clearly an
impediment to adoption by new people.
I suggest to start with the following book:
http://www.ats-lang.org/DOCUMENT/ATS2TUTORIAL/HTML/book1.html
In particular, I suggest to try the examples in the book by typing in them
one-by-one. In this way, you can get a good feel as to what type-error messages
look like.
If you want to write code in ATS to solve realistic problems, please first
have a good understanding about the ways in which ATS and C can interact.
Also, feel free to raise questions in this group.
http://www.ats-lang.org/DOCUMENT/ATS2TUTORIAL/HTML/book1.html
In particular, I suggest to try the examples in the book by typing in them
one-by-one. In this way, you can get a good feel as to what type-error messages
look like.
If you want to write code in ATS to solve realistic problems, please first
have a good understanding about the ways in which ATS and C can interact.
Also, feel free to raise questions in this group.
Chris Double
Jul 16, 2014, 10:42:51 PM7/16/14
to ats-lan...@googlegroups.com
For learning languages 'cookbook' style I've found the following
useful for picking up other languages:
<http://pleac.sourceforge.net/>
<http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:ATS>
Interested parties might like to look at adding ATS ports for some of
the missing examples. These are good for looking up how to perform
tasks rather than learning about particular features though.
--
http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz
useful for picking up other languages:
<http://pleac.sourceforge.net/>
<http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:ATS>
Interested parties might like to look at adding ATS ports for some of
the missing examples. These are good for looking up how to perform
tasks rather than learning about particular features though.
--
http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz
Brandon Barker
Jul 16, 2014, 10:46:31 PM7/16/14
to ats-lang-users
Very nice, last I checked, I didn't notice ATS on rosettacode.
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gmhwxi
Jul 17, 2014, 1:29:29 AM7/17/14
to ats-lan...@googlegroups.com, chris....@double.co.nz
Good.
I have just updated the existing ATS-examples at rosettacode to
make sure that they can run under ATS2. There is no need to add
ATS1-examples anymore.
I have just updated the existing ATS-examples at rosettacode to
make sure that they can run under ATS2. There is no need to add
ATS1-examples anymore.
Raoul Duke
Jul 17, 2014, 2:23:13 PM7/17/14
to ats-lang-users
everybody is missing the point / i did a bad job making my point. apologies.
i do not just want new pointers to things: i desire for the current
mish-mash to be cleaned up so that people never have to *ask* such
questions because they managed to find things relatively quickly and
easily on their own.
somebody who doesn't know ats or who is trying to find specific docs
(e.g. i still haven't found anything sufficient about templates!?!!!)
ends up with google search results that are just all over the place -
many different domains have stuff from the author of ATS himself, let
alone all the other (2 or 3) places that are do-gooders trying to blog
/ document more stuff about the language.
so basically there is no way to win: the official docs seem to not
help, and google searching just makes it look like everything is a
mess.
this is not the kind of user experience that will really help draw in new users.
i urge people who have control of the 'official' stuff that is out
there to do things to rectify this **if they actually want the
language to gain traction**. i mean, i'm offering this advice for free
or you can go pay $$$ to some web marketing genius to get similar
comments (but only if they are actually good). :-)
[all this can probably done in the course of a week at least as a
quick and dirty first pass of coalescing things. heck you might be
able to get a Technical Writer / SEO type undergraduate to do this
work in exchange for some credit, no?]
(a) have at most 2 places: github & then some core official ats docs site.
(b) remove everything else anywhere else official (i'm not saying
bluishcoder et. al. sites must die, far from it! only the disparate
'official' looking stuff). get rid of sourceforge for crying out loud.
(c) how many different mailing lists are there, anyway? google?
sourceforge? mailman? others? whittle them down as much as possible.
(d) i believe the documentation should be restructured. my off the
cuff suggestion is to have only the current version showing up at the
"root" of the docs / on the home page. then the others can be
available but off the main page.
(e) is there a formal language spec anywhere? that would be good to
have as a first link. that way while the informal documentation is
catching up over time, at least somebody has a way to find *some*
answer even if it is technically over their head :-)
that's what i think would minimally be good to staunch the problems i
see. after that, more iterations can be done to further improve.
$0.02
i do not just want new pointers to things: i desire for the current
mish-mash to be cleaned up so that people never have to *ask* such
questions because they managed to find things relatively quickly and
easily on their own.
somebody who doesn't know ats or who is trying to find specific docs
(e.g. i still haven't found anything sufficient about templates!?!!!)
ends up with google search results that are just all over the place -
many different domains have stuff from the author of ATS himself, let
alone all the other (2 or 3) places that are do-gooders trying to blog
/ document more stuff about the language.
so basically there is no way to win: the official docs seem to not
help, and google searching just makes it look like everything is a
mess.
this is not the kind of user experience that will really help draw in new users.
i urge people who have control of the 'official' stuff that is out
there to do things to rectify this **if they actually want the
language to gain traction**. i mean, i'm offering this advice for free
or you can go pay $$$ to some web marketing genius to get similar
comments (but only if they are actually good). :-)
[all this can probably done in the course of a week at least as a
quick and dirty first pass of coalescing things. heck you might be
able to get a Technical Writer / SEO type undergraduate to do this
work in exchange for some credit, no?]
(a) have at most 2 places: github & then some core official ats docs site.
(b) remove everything else anywhere else official (i'm not saying
bluishcoder et. al. sites must die, far from it! only the disparate
'official' looking stuff). get rid of sourceforge for crying out loud.
(c) how many different mailing lists are there, anyway? google?
sourceforge? mailman? others? whittle them down as much as possible.
(d) i believe the documentation should be restructured. my off the
cuff suggestion is to have only the current version showing up at the
"root" of the docs / on the home page. then the others can be
available but off the main page.
(e) is there a formal language spec anywhere? that would be good to
have as a first link. that way while the informal documentation is
catching up over time, at least somebody has a way to find *some*
answer even if it is technically over their head :-)
that's what i think would minimally be good to staunch the problems i
see. after that, more iterations can be done to further improve.
$0.02
Brandon Barker
Aug 16, 2014, 6:34:39 PM8/16/14
to ats-lang-users
Well, here's a new version of the website. It may need a few additions and color changes but otherwise I think it is basically perfect:
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Raoul Duke
Aug 17, 2014, 2:35:08 AM8/17/14
to ats-lang-users
those spinning gifs!!!!!
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