Re: Silent Hill 3 Pc Trainer
Kathryn Garivay
The 17kg (37.4lbs) fluid trainer contains a 5.9kg (13lbs) flywheel that contains a known power curve up to 2,200w if pumping along at a blistering 60KPH. The unit includes a foldable frame to slightly decrease the overall real-estate for storage post-ride.
In order to determine power and speed, a speed-sensor is placed hanging off the chain stay near the flywheel. This reads a magnet inside the flywheel enclosure. Based on the magnet the unit can determine speed. Because fluid as a resistance medium is very stable, the power curve is quite predictable. That means that at X speed, the power will always be Y. For example, at 15MPH, the power might always be 326 watts. They said on average it takes about 2-3 minutes for the fluid within the unit to reach stability from a wattage power curve standpoint.
Looking at the app side, the unit includes an iPad app that will chart and display your speed/cadence/distance/power. The iPad app requires the use of the ANT+ iPhone adapter, seen below attached to the iPad.
We also have very high quality software that will do what Elite offer here for free, looks like any Ant+ speed sensor will work on this trainer. Inside our software settings you will be able to map the flyweel speed to power & share this. When we have this mapped we can display a virtual speed thats based on the power curve as well as power.
Interesting stuff, especially on your notes on tire speed as well contributing. And unlike a resistance controlled trainer where you could keep gearing identical and thus speed identical, tire speed is actually an integral part fluid trainers as speed = resistance.
If I was a tech whiz like that and could fashion a similar ANT+ gadget I would definitely buy one of these. The prospect of being able to do sneaky silent 5am or 10pm training sessions? Forget about it! Sold!
Seems to be a fantastic product idea that has fallen a bit short on implementation; I would think that anyone looking for something like this would pay the extra $300 for a KICKR.
The KICKR seems really, really hard to beat at the moment. Even if it is more expensive for us Aussies
;)
from reading the manuals from the elite website, it seems there are nothing electronic/sensors on the trainer itself. The only sensor needed is a 3rd party ANT+ speed sensor to transmit to the ipad/iphone with the My E-Training apps. Correct me if i am wrong. Thanks
Hi Grant,
what you need is an Apple Lightning to 30 pin adapter. The small Apple connector you mention is called Lightning and the Ant+ dongle uses the older 30 pin connection that iPhone/iPads used to use. There are two types, one is about the same size as the Ant+ dongle, the other has a bit of a cable on the Lightning connection side. Both types would do the job fine.
Just any combined sensor will work, i now bought the wahoo one but i need to modify it as the cable is not long enough to fit both sensors in the required poisition. Take note to buy one with at least 15cm of cable between the two sensors. I will now need to cut and solder to lengthen the cable.
The current wahoo one has a very thick shielded cable with two very thin inner wires (no seperate shielding) i have sofar been unable to lengthen them and get both sensors to work without fault. Grrrrrrrrr times two.
I have emailed Elite about these 2 issues however have yet to receive a response. I think the guys at Elite have been arriving at work a little late, leaving a little early, & been having too long a lunch in between on this one.
I have ordered the Sunnto USB Ant + & plan to give trainer road a go. As I understand it can deal with inputs from multiple ant transmitters unlike this dumb Elite app. If this is the case I can get cadence from the Garmin GSC10 already on my bike & I hope that their virtual power is more accurate than the Elite App.
you may have noticed that in the settings of my e-training app there is under the selection of the trainer (Turbo muin) a value that appears to be defaulted to 2070. This value seems to be the circumference of the internal flywheel or so. My opinion is that it is simply wrong, because I have chosen another fluid trainer in the settings and the value was unchanged.
Actually yes it works as long as you are pedalling and the sensors have switched themselves on. I have managed to get mine working by putting some serious stretch into the cable so that reaches over the to the non drive chain stay & it picks up my Garmin cadence magnet. I need to keep adjusting it as the wire pulls the cadence sensor back out or of position over time.
When setting up you need to input your trainers serial number printed on the sticker on the leg. Then search for sensors and select the one positioned on the muin (this is as important for me as the app is also picking up the signal from my Garmin gsc10).
So mine is now working but the power data estimates from the Elite app are flattery to say the least. The estimated wattage is huge!
Based on my experience with the Lemond, they should have mounted the flywheel speed sensor on the housing like Lemond did. Once you have an Ant+ speed signal, there are plenty of apps (such as Performance Pro) that will pick up the Ant signal and convert it to power. Then you run decent traing software such as the Sufferfest etc and have all of your data real time. I know folks bash the Lemond for its hoise but the ride feel of it is quite nice. There is no limit to how much power you need to put on it. The idea of direct drive trainer needing to add resistance is just plain stupid because if you want more resistance you either pedal faster or put the bike in a higher gear. Just like the real world.
It appears that the circumference of 2070 mm given by the app for the Muin is simply not possible, it would give a diameter of 659 mm which is clearly something that would not fit in the flywheel container.
I have been contemplating buying a turbo trainer ie computrainer, wahoo kickr, elite muin. However all I read really is that none of the providers seam to be able to provide a relatively simple bug free machine. Really I want to be able to set my bike up quickly, switch on from a simple menu and train quietly and then analyse my workout. I am not a mechanic or an electrical engineer or tech geek. I want power analysis and video to keep myself amused to stay on the bike. Why is this all so hard. I am prepared to pay for the right outcome.
So, my question is: would it be possible to stick, for instance, a bontrager speedtrap to the flywheel housing to transmit speed data directly to the Edge? And if so, what should the wheel circumference be?
Anything new ?
I am using a Bontrager speed sensor too with duct tape, directly on my Muin. I know that the speed I get is pretty irrelevant. Is there any news about the wheel circumference to use ?
Have you ever noticed problems between the Garmin 620 HR transmitter and the Elite App ?
The app would not recognize it where it recognizes the 610 one (from a friend).
As I know there are different because the 620 has few other sensors (vert Oscillation and so on) could it be the cause ?
Peter,
I have the Turbo Muin.
The best way to train on ur Muin is to get a power meter on ur bike and connect it to ur garmin. Forget about the Real App. Do ur intervals using the workout option in ur garmin.
Pros:great design
Cons:oil leak
An excellent product spoiled by the fact that it is leaking oil.
Very well designed and very stable during use.
I have used the Elite Turbo Muin Fluid Trainer every day since purchase up until discovering the oil leak.
I am presently in Saudi Arabia and will return to UK in March when I will return the item for repair.
After few rides, very happy with the muin. Silent plenty resistance. Virtual power is interesting. Elite setting from helpdesk 2095, trainer road setting from help desk 2070. Comparing trainerroad afterwards with -trainer-power-curves/ the stated SRM curve from elite at 27 km/h the curve states 325 W trainer road actuals approx. 268W.
Decided just to take the values as is from the apps and take that they do no necessary relate to actual road values. RPE stays the same!
Thanks Diederik,
i was wondering which sensor to get.
Misuro Blu seems the one to pick, though the Smart Blue Tooth is a bit cheaper
I guess you have to atttach this last one also to the bike, and Misuro Blu is straight onto the the trainer.
I took the Wahoo sensor in the end as the misuro blu seemed not available. In the end I just put the sensor with double sided tape on the trainer itself and it works fine. I guess any bluetooth smart sensor will do
Has anybody tried to mount a cervelo s5 or any other bike with oversized rear stays onto the turbo muin?
The left rear stay touches the metal housing of the turbo muin, which seems to be too wide for the s5 frame. NOT GOOD.
Any experiences or solutions?
Hi Peter,
Yes you have to gear up in other to increase the resistance. The key here is to have proper gearing so that any shift up in gear does not cause the resistance to increase so much such that your cadence drops too much. What you mean is a small increase in resistance everytime you shift up. This is so that you can maintain your targetted cadence (90-95 rpm for me) when you increase your power.
1.Elite speed and cadence sensor bluetooth version (as ant+ produces a signal that only Elite app picks up?) but these are fiddly/impossible to install. Though it does look like on Elite website that there is a 20cm version now?
2. Get a Misuro Blu or Misuo Plus which would both connect to my pc via bluetooth. The Misuro just sticks to the Turbo Muin and using a magnet measures speed and cadence I think. Trainerroad can then do its thing and provide virtual power data.
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