Re: [Asterisk-Users] TE411P Really Bad Echo

[Stagg Shelton]

It was Digium's opinion that perhaps the card had a VPM.  We got a replacement TE411P, I implemented it tonight and still the exact same echo problem.  At this point I feel like I can rule out failed hardware. 

I contacted Digium support and now they are telling me it's something with my carrier, and I should call them.  I called Bellsouth, and they ran a full stress test on the circuit taking me offline for about 30 minutes. 

The end result is that the circuit test passed with no errors.  Bellsouth says it's not in their network, Digium says its not their card, and I have a te411p with VPM disabled in the wct4xx kernel module because something doesn't work the way it should.  My customer is wanting to know about sangoma cards with the echo cancellation, and at this point I'm nervous to recommend any hardware.  I'm going to look into the sangoma that you suggested.  Are there any other kinds of products that I could look into either Passive or Active.

Thanks

Stagg Shelton
www.oneringnetworks.com


Matt wrote:

try sangoma carrier grade 104d hardware EC card. we're using it ourself.

Best Regards

Matt
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anthony Rodgers" <Anthony...@dnv.org>
To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion"
<asteris...@lists.digium.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] TE411P Really Bad Echo


  

For what it's worth, we have been going through very similar issues
with a TE411P - with Digium support, we have basically gone as far as
we can with the HW EC, and are now using MG2 with much better results.

We have a Ditech EC box on order.....

Regards,
-- 
Anthony Rodgers
Business Systems Analyst
District of North Vancouver
Web: http://www.dnv.org
RSS Feed: http://www.dnv.org/rss.asp


On Feb 7, 2006, at 7:36 AM, Matthew Fredrickson wrote:

    

On Feb 5, 2006, at 9:36 PM, Stagg Shelton wrote:

      

I just implemented a system using a TE411P hardware echo cancellation
card. Per Digium, I setup zaptel.conf, and zapata.conf the same way
        

as
      

I always have. To my surprise calls out to the PSTN had a terrible
echo. 1 - 2 second delay, and quite clear. The echo was so bad that
        

I
      

had to remove the hardware echo cancellation module from the card.
        

We
      

are only using the 1st span of this card right now, and we have a
tdm400p with 4 fxs modules installed as well.

If anyone has experience with this card, can you tell me if I am
missing
something.
        

1 to 2 seconds?! That's ridiculously huge. I don't think you'll find
a echo canceler anywhere that can fix your echo problem. If it gets
better with the VPM disabled, then definitely contact Digium
tech-support about it.

Matthew Fredrickson

_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --

Asterisk-Users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
      

_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --

Asterisk-Users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


    

_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --

Asterisk-Users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


  

[Cory Andrews]

Stagg - I know you get a full 128ms tail of echo can on the Sangoma.  I believe that on the TE411P, the 128ms tail is shared by all (4) spans, and as you add additional spans up to maximum of 4, the echo can tail amount decreases accordingly.  If you are running 4 spans, you have 32ms of echo can tail on each span, not the full 128ms.

 

Now that I'm reading back through your post thread, it looks like you were only running 1 span on the TE411P, so you should have been getting the full 128ms of echo can tail.  You may not find an improvement with the Sangoma.  I have never experience, nor heard of a 1-2 full second delay.  Trial and error is likely your course of action. 

 

Cory J Andrews
++++++++++++
VOIPSupply.com
454 Sonwil Drive
Buffalo, NY 14225
++++++++++++++
voice - 716.630.1555 X22
email - Co...@VOIPSupply.com
AIM - B2CORY

[Steve Totaro]

Try Sangoma, I believe you can try it and return it within 30 days for a
full refund.

Thanks,
Steve Totaro
http://www.asteriskhelpdesk.com

_____

From: Cory Andrews [mailto:Co...@VOIPSupply.com]
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:52 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] TE411P Really Bad Echo

Stagg - I know you get a full 128ms tail of echo can on the Sangoma. I
believe that on the TE411P, the 128ms tail is shared by all (4) spans,
and as you add additional spans up to maximum of 4, the echo can tail
amount decreases accordingly. If you are running 4 spans, you have 32ms
of echo can tail on each span, not the full 128ms.

Now that I'm reading back through your post thread, it looks like you
were only running 1 span on the TE411P, so you should have been getting
the full 128ms of echo can tail. You may not find an improvement with
the Sangoma. I have never experience, nor heard of a 1-2 full second
delay. Trial and error is likely your course of action.

Cory J Andrews
++++++++++++
VOIPSupply.com
454 Sonwil Drive
Buffalo, NY 14225
++++++++++++++
voice - 716.630.1555 X22

email - Co...@VOIPSupply.com <mailto:Co...@VOIPSupply.com>
AIM - B2CORY

----- Original Message -----

From: Stagg Shelton <mailto:aste...@oneringnetworks.com>

To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion

<mailto:asteris...@lists.digium.com>

Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:34 PM

Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] TE411P Really Bad Echo

It was Digium's opinion that perhaps the card had a VPM. We got
a replacement TE411P, I implemented it tonight and still the exact same
echo problem. At this point I feel like I can rule out failed hardware.

I contacted Digium support and now they are telling me it's
something with my carrier, and I should call them. I called Bellsouth,
and they ran a full stress test on the circuit taking me offline for
about 30 minutes.

The end result is that the circuit test passed with no errors.
Bellsouth says it's not in their network, Digium says its not their
card, and I have a te411p with VPM disabled in the wct4xx kernel module
because something doesn't work the way it should. My customer is
wanting to know about sangoma cards with the echo cancellation, and at
this point I'm nervous to recommend any hardware. I'm going to look
into the sangoma that you suggested. Are there any other kinds of
products that I could look into either Passive or Active.

Thanks

Stagg Shelton

www.oneringnetworks.com <http://www.oneringnetworks.com>

[Rob Lith]

It claims to have "carrier-grade algorithms" - don't glibly translate that to carrier grade hardware, it's a PCI card...

Rob

[aste...@anime.net]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2006, Rob Lith wrote:
> It claims to have "carrier-grade algorithms" - don't glibly translate that
> to carrier grade hardware, it's a PCI card...

What echo canceller hardware do you recommend for an asterisk PC?

-Dan

[Rob Lith]

TE406P/411P and if you need to go dedicated to hanlde all possible look at an external dedicated canceller like www.oriontelecom.com VCL-E1 ECHO CANCELLER (1U Version) ± $1295

Rob

[Stagg Shelton]

Yes, right now we are only using span 1 on the quad span card with plans to pull in another T1 PRI when we get this echo problem solved.  The echo is only experienced when the call terminates to traditional analog circuits both local and long distance.  Calls to cell phones, and other known digital circuits do not exhibit the symptoms.  I've been sent a few articles off list which discussed the reasons why this may occur, imperfect impedance where the digital circuit is switched to the analog circuit.

In testing I've set echocancel=no made calls, and echocancel=yes and made calls with no real audible difference.  I haven't done a zap show channel while on a call with echo, but I plan to this weekend.  I was informed that the number of taps would be shown.  I used a stop watch last night to try to get the delay, and it was about 1/2 to 1 second delay and was continual so long as I was talking.  It wasn't affected by differing acoustical variations.  I tested this using handset, headset, and speakerphone.  Disabling VPM and recompiling zaptel or removing the VPM off the board completely is the only thing that has any effect on the echo.  Hopefully the zap show channel will provide to me another data point to help me determine if the HW module is active.

More to come...

Stagg Shelton
www.oneringnetworks.com

[Rob Lith]

Stagg

I don't think it's a matter of trying echocancel on and off, it is a matter of tuning your system to your local PSTN - this is a combination of trying the different echocan alogrithims (i.e. MG2), the echotrainign etc and setting your txgain - too loud outgoing audio will result in echo.
http://www.asteriskdocs.org/modules/tinycontent/content/docbook/current/docs-html/x1695.html#AEN1718

Rob

[aste...@oneringnetworks.com]

I thought that if the VPM was detected then you didn't have any control as to which algorithm was used.

I was under the impression that the algorithms were only used for the software echo cancellation.

At this point I'll give anything a try.

Stagg Shelton
www.oneringnetworks.com

-----Original Message-----

Stagg

Rob

> *From:* Stagg Shelton <aste...@oneringnetworks.com>
> *To:* Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion<asteris...@lists.digium.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 11:34 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Asterisk-Users] TE411P Really Bad Echo

--- message truncated ---

[Mike Clark]

Stagg Shelton wrote:

> It was Digium's opinion that perhaps the card had a VPM. We got a
> replacement TE411P, I implemented it tonight and still the exact same
> echo problem. At this point I feel like I can rule out failed hardware.
>
> I contacted Digium support and now they are telling me it's something
> with my carrier, and I should call them. I called Bellsouth, and they
> ran a full stress test on the circuit taking me offline for about 30
> minutes.
>
> The end result is that the circuit test passed with no errors.
> Bellsouth says it's not in their network, Digium says its not their
> card, and I have a te411p with VPM disabled in the wct4xx kernel
> module because something doesn't work the way it should. My customer
> is wanting to know about sangoma cards with the echo cancellation, and
> at this point I'm nervous to recommend any hardware. I'm going to
> look into the sangoma that you suggested. Are there any other kinds
> of products that I could look into either Passive or Active.
>
> Thanks
>
> Stagg Shelton
> www.oneringnetworks.com
>

If you only need a single span, think about using a single span Digium
or Sangoma card without echo cancellation and then use an external
hardware echo canceller such as Tellabs or Orion Telecom. We have a
customer using a Sangoma A101 that had some lingering echo, so we
purchased the Orion Telecom "desktop" T1 echo canceller. That cleared
things up and we've had no complaints in the almost two weeks since it
has been installed. We've got another one on the way for a second site.

Mike Clark

[ch...@innovates.com]

[Matt]

I vouch for Sangoma's too.

We use sangoma 104d EC card, echoes gone, works well. As to te411p, we have
not tried yet, we don't know.

Best Regards

Matt

----- Original Message -----
From: <ch...@innovates.com>
To: <asteris...@lists.digium.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 2:53 PM
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] TE411P Really Bad Echo

> I can definitely vouch for Sangoma's cards with hardware echo
> cancel. I've been installing Asterisk boxes for about 6
> months now using Digium TDM cards and Sipura SPA-3000s in
> small installations. This past month I installed in a small
> office with 3 pots lines. The echo was very bad and of
> course the phone company (SBC) claims the lines pass all
> tests. I exhausted all the echo cancel combinations in
> zaptel and still had echo and bad noise during double talk.
> I installed a Sangoma A200 with hardware echo cancel and you
> would never know there was a problem. It's the best sounding
> connection I've heard through Asterisk.
>
> Chip Schweiss

>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asterisk [mailto:aste...@oneringnetworks.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:35 PM
> To: asterisk-users
> Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] TE411P Really Bad Echo
>

> It was Digium's opinion that perhaps the card had a VPM. We
> got a replacement TE411P, I implemented it tonight and still
> the exact same echo problem. At this point I feel like I can
> rule out failed hardware.
>
> I contacted Digium support and now they are telling me it's
> something with my carrier, and I should call them. I called
> Bellsouth, and they ran a full stress test on the circuit
> taking me offline for about 30 minutes.
>
> The end result is that the circuit test passed with no
> errors. Bellsouth says it's not in their network, Digium
> says its not their card, and I have a te411p with VPM
> disabled in the wct4xx kernel module because something
> doesn't work the way it should. My customer is wanting to
> know about sangoma cards with the echo cancellation, and at
> this point I'm nervous to recommend any hardware. I'm going
> to look into the sangoma that you suggested. Are there any
> other kinds of products that I could look into either Passive
> or Active.
>
> Thanks
>
> Stagg Shelton
> www.oneringnetworks.com
>
>

> Matt wrote:
> try sangoma carrier grade 104d hardware EC card. we're using
> it ourself.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Matt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anthony Rodgers" <Anthony...@dnv.org>
> To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion"
> <asteris...@lists.digium.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 12:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] TE411P Really Bad Echo
>
>
>
> For what it's worth, we have been going through very similar
> issues

[Michiel van Baak]

On 16:48, Sat 11 Feb 06, Matt wrote:
> I vouch for Sangoma's too.
>
> We use sangoma 104d EC card, echoes gone, works well.

I second that, the sangoma cards are awesome.

--
Michiel van Baak
http://michiel.vanbaak.info
mic...@vanbaak.info
GnuPG key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x7E0B9A2D

"Why is it drug addicts and computer afficionados are both called users?"