Ren and Li

[Dhara]

Can someone tell me what exactly is the relation between ren and Li?
and why xiao is the origin of ren. I didnt get that in lecture.

[Nicholaos Jones]

Li is the virtue of acting in the right way at the right time. (I
used the word "righteousness" to describe this.) Ren is humane-ness,
or benevolence -- if one is ren, then one is in harmony with the
master blueprint (tian) for how things are and how they should be.
Confucius's idea is that one way to get into harmony (ren) with the
master blueprint for the world (tian) is to develop the virtue of
acting in the right way at the right time.

An analogy. Think of a house. There is a way the house should be in
order to be a suitable shelter and living environment. If one wants
to make a house that is a good shelter (this is like wanting to make
oneself into someone who is in harmony with tian, someone who is ren),
then one needs to develop certain skills, such as plumbing, electrical
things, etc -- developing these skills allows one to know what to do
in order to build a good house and how to do it in the right way, in
the right order (e.g., need to set a foundation before building a
roof. Just as becoming a good carpenter is a way to build a good
house, developing li is a way to become ren.

Xiao is the virtue of filial piety -- the virtue of being loyal,
respectful, and obedient to one's parents. Xiao is another virtue
that one should develop in order to become ren -- knowing one's place
in the family, how to act as a good child, how to obey one's parents,
etc is helpful in knowing one's place in society, how to act as a good
citizen/friend/worker/etc and how to obey one's superiors.

[Charles Reichheld]

It might be important to discriminate between yi and li a little. From
my understanding, li was like etiquette, and includes following social
customs/rituals. In effect, you act in harmony with others by
imitating how you observe things to be done in different social
situations. Yi seems similar, but is more about righteousness. It
makes me think of following a role model, and knowing the right way to
act, and then living up to it. Are these thoughts correct???

[Nicholaos Jones]

Yup. Good examples. In fact, you correct a mistake I made: in my
previous post, I meant to be talking about yi (righteousness), not li
(propriety). Oops.