since Cesar states that his abilities are unique to himself and may not be teachable, it might be
good if ppl would simply admit that he is for ENTERTAINMENT (altho i personally have a hard
time chuckling over hanging a dog, over-facing a fearful/anxious dog, confronting a spooky dog
who is well-known to RG over a toy, bone, food, ____, etc).
What I find most disturbing is that our dogs are a lot like us, we share so many behaviors, that regularly practicing aversive, dominance type training, could at some point, negatively affect human-human relationships,
as the impact of training a dog affects the handler as well, and this delivered deceptively through popular culture, TV is unacceptable & should stop immediately
That being said, I have watched his shows, read his books, and just could not apply what he espouses. I guess projecting positive energy is a little too new age for me. I learned positive reinforcement training techniques in rescue, and that is what has worked for my own dog and me.
Great piece, Patricia. I hope you get the podcast going.
As in one of the responses on this blog, and in my encounters with people that work and live with dogs, I have heard many people use the,
I train stock dogs, and this is a huge factor in whether a handler is going to be successful. If they are projecting a wishy washy attitude they will get nowhere with a strong and intense dog, who only and passionately sees sheep. The first thing to learn is how to step up and confidently take control.
Actually no it is not. With the advent of modern genetics and DNA analysis, Dogs have been reclassified as Canis Lupus, the same as Wolves. Dr. McConnell even mentions this in her book. Dogs are further classified as a sub-species of Canis Lupus, Canis Lupus Familiaris.
I made a point clearly that I do not agree with methods used on the show, and wonder whether or not National Geographic did their homework on this one, does it meet their standards? it seems the information is well documented at the professional organizations many have referred to above, are Veternarians aware of the disconnect, when did this proposed agreement take place?
I based my statement of efficacy on published research studies that I read on the Frontline and Heartgard websites which showed comparisons to products produced by their competitors. Since I saw those, the Frontline website seems to have been redesigned and there is no longer a link to the research study. I have no idea if this means that the FDA issued a warning letter to Merial to pull the link or whether Merial decided the information was too technical for a consumer site, but it is no longer there as far as I can see. From what I remember of the study for Frontline Plus, it responded faster, killed fleas and ticks sooner and continued protecting after the 30 period, where other products started to loose effectiveness at 28 days. You can still see reverences to this on other websites if you do a search of Frontline Plus versus, but they do not link to the actual study that I could see.
I think that the issue of a promotion between Merial and Cesar Millan is one of a conflict of interest and not the promotion of cruel and inhumane practices. While his methods may be questionable, his message that it is far better to try to save the dog and not give up on it should be applauded.
His approach may be a bit of a throwback to a spare the rod and spoil the child approach of dog training, but is it as bad as the stim collar crowd, the beat the dog crowd or the euthanize the dog crowd? It may not be ideal, but it at least advocates trying before you throw the baby out with the bath water.
While his techniques may work, and there is some contention that there is a lot of smoke and mirrors at work with his TV show, there are other techniques that work, such as lure/reward and reward marker based training which are very successful and are both enjoyable and non-threatening to the dog and the trainer.
I have never seen one of his shows where he himself uses object based play to train a dog, although there was one, I believe with a German Shepherd Dog, where the trainer, not Cesar, used toys to get the dog to respond.
You may get a quicker response with coersion, so as to make the unpleasantness stop, but it will not necessarily be a response that becomes engrained without a lifetime of coersion. And like with the Fight Club example, you may get results which are less than desirable. What is more reliable, an entity which performs a task out of the fear of reprisal or an entity which performs the same task out of a love of doing that task and a respect and/or love for the requestor?
While I have spent much of my responses to this post pleading for the benefit of the doubt for Merial, especially when others questioned the science behind their products, and defending the spirit of what Cesar does, which is to compel people to see that it is well worth the effort and work to instruct and save the noble animal that needs their guidance and help, I would not follow the letter of his techniques at all.
Cesar advocates effort and hard work and I am all for that. I have seen people in my neighborhood use easywalk harnesses and Halties on puppies of less than six months old!!! Are they lost causes at such a tender age? Do you really need these devices to control the dog, are they incorrigable cases, or do these owners just need to spend a little more time and a lot more treats on the practice of leash skills? I think it shows why people are so enamored with Cesar. They want instant results, which is what it appears to be in a highly produced, 10 minute or less segment. But true learning and collaboration is a life long endeavor that requires a committed partnership between trainer and dog and not even Cesar says that there is an easy way out, just that there can be fast results that have to be followed up consistantly.
He only talked to the director, program operators, and board members. When he was brought through for a tour of the shelter, passing the majority of the employees who gathered at the front office to see him, he did not look at us or speak to us. He looked as though he was trying not to acknowledge that we where there.
I must point out that his wife was with him and did make an effort to communicate. She was very pleasant, introducing herself and complimenting us on the shelter. Cesar was not being rushed through he just chose not to engage with us or look at us. I thought it was very odd. He did take the time to turn up the charm for the crowd of people that had gathered outside to meet him and get his autograph after his tour. His entire demeanor changed, like turning on a switch. I wonder if he has a phobia interacting with professionals who deal with animal behavior on a daily basis?
I recently adopted an abused and neglected foxhound mix, who has quite a few issues. In working with our dog, we have done a lot of reading, consulting with professionals, and socializing. Our dogs still has some serious issues, which is why I decided to start reading Cesar
I got here from EdgarSawtelle.com (that wonderful book) and have been just absorbed for a couple of hours reading, thinking, remembering etc. I am a trained behaviorist and psychologist and certified in behavior therapy from JosephWolpe. In graduate school I acquired a fear biting German Shepherd that was going to be shot. SoI applied all my learning theory to her. Ultimately I took her to Europe where she ate in restaurants and rode on trains, and saw the world with me.
I have watched CM and compared to the people in my neon red town he is a positive wonder. Training a dog has still not penetrated their consciousness. But worse still for me is watching parents with their children. Teaching them to not be curious, not be intelligent or creative, and just generally crushing them that disturbs me much more. They will grow up doing unto others what was done unto them, and that will include their pets. No amount of talking to them will change that. But I think watching CM day after day on cable will amuse them enough to open their minds if only a little twist of the can opener from time to time. CM is macho enough to get their attention and he is good at projecting a certain charisma. So I think we have to start somewhere. He is not perfect, but he is a good start. You can follow up with No Bad Dogs (Barbara Woodhouse) with those of your acquaintances who are just beginning and like to be entertained while learning.
I watch Cesar with fascination.Very few of the dogs we see on his show would be adoptable from most shelters.many are dangerous..They bite, they fight and bark enough to be a problem to the neighbors.I think many are on a one way trip to the vet.
I am not sure why vet behaviorists are more qualified than Cesar in working with many of these problem animals???.Vets do have medication available but are they as adept at meeting a dogs needs??Cesar has a pool and recently purchased a huge acreage for his dogs.He also has a group of potentially difficult breeds which seem to live in harmony.if those who criticize Cesar can do better then lets have a tv show??Sitting in an ivory tower does not impress me.Show me your rehabbeddogs.If we watch Silvia trkman we can also see a gifted trainer with absolutely no credentials Other than her results.Leave Cesar be!!
Follow up to my last response to Cory:
I forgot to mention something. I suggested reading books/some real information, and I still think that is a good idea. That you are doing research at all is really great.
I also did not suggest everyone should train exactly as Cesar does, but I will say that his techniques give people hope that the dog can be saved, and it has merit. You (and the articles) are correct that his techniques can cause harm if used incorrectly. Positive reinforcement is no different. Many owners worsen behavior (including aggression) by reinforcing the wrong things. This does not mean it should be abandoned completely any more than any other technique.
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