Navigating between ARIS and Siftr

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Craig Brumwell

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Jul 27, 2016, 12:04:50 PM7/27/16
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Is it possible to navigate back and forth between ARIS and Siftr within a game? Can ARISjs do this?

Christopher Holden

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Jul 28, 2016, 3:01:42 PM7/28/16
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What happens if you add a siftr url as a webpage object in ARIS?

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Craig Brumwell <ccbru...@gmail.com> wrote:
Is it possible to navigate back and forth between ARIS and Siftr within a game? Can ARISjs do this?

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Craig Brumwell

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Jul 28, 2016, 3:26:04 PM7/28/16
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Ah...of course. Thanks Chris

michae...@gmail.com

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Aug 26, 2016, 10:56:01 AM8/26/16
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When I add a Siftr as a web object in ARIS using the URL (Siftr exists through web browser), I get a "Sorry, there's no Siftr at this URL" message when clicking on the ARIS web object. Visiting Siftr through the same interface shows my Siftr as the most recently added one, so it's there, but I must be doing something wrong with the link? Thoughts?

Dana Atwood-Blaine

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Aug 26, 2016, 11:12:13 AM8/26/16
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Hi Michael,
Although I don't have an answer to your question just yet, I am currently exploring the relationship between Siftr and ARIS as well.  I am very interested in this thread and hope to be able to share some insight before long.  The things I have discovered are that when you create a Siftr on the Siftr website, an ARIS game is also created.  The "tags" in that ARIS game are the "categories" from the Siftr site.  So, basically, Siftr and ARIS are already integrated.  I am curious about what you are trying to do that prompted you to ask about a way navigate between Siftr and ARIS?  And what do the developers see as the main affordances of Siftr as it relates to ARIS?

Thanks for bringing up these questions, Michael!  

--Dana

On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 9:56 AM, <michae...@gmail.com> wrote:
When I add a Siftr as a web object in ARIS using the URL (Siftr exists through web browser), I get a "Sorry, there's no Siftr at this URL" message when clicking on the ARIS web object. Visiting Siftr through the same interface shows my Siftr as the most recently added one, so it's there, but I must be doing something wrong with the link? Thoughts?
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Craig Brumwell

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Aug 26, 2016, 11:17:51 AM8/26/16
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I am planning to do the same thing, so I'm interested how this works out. Unfortunately I have no suggestions at this point

michae...@gmail.com

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Aug 27, 2016, 7:30:29 PM8/27/16
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Hi Dana,

For some reason I didn't get this comment directly emailed to me so apologies for any perceived delay in response. I attended the ARIS conference prior to GLS and one of the suggestions emerging from the Siftr panel was to integrate ARIS and Siftr since they have complementary strengths and weaknesses and use the same login. Chris Holden suggested manipulating a Siftr as an ARIS web object, which is what I tried. I'm working on an ARIS game (Water Story MKE) which is like a digital water themed scavenger hunt in Milwaukee. We want to increase the user interactivity through users posting their own content, and Notebook can do that but there are hurdles to its use. Siftr seems to offer a slightly more elegant way of collecting user-generated content that can be easily segregated and layered on a map, but keeping it from interfering with the gameplay in ARIS. This is potentially useful for us because our game is meant to allow lots of people to post their content in similar spaces over an enduring period of time and interact with earlier posts from other users. So that's the short of the "why." Specifically, I am trying to create an easy interface between the ARIS curated content and the more free-flowing user-determined pace and scope offered through Siftr. Since we are finding the initial player account creation and log in to be significant hurdles to participation, the fact that Siftr is not currently playing nice with ARIS as a web object means the current hurdle is too great to expect our ARIS game users to overcome it. I reached out to Jim Matthews, who relayed the trouble to one of his Siftr developers, so perhaps there will be a technical update in a few days. If you would like to continue or expand this conversation off this thread, please feel free. How are you integrating these two tools? And/or do you have other thoughts on how they might be more seamlessly connected? Assuming Siftr were made to "play nice" with ARIS, I am attracted to certain aspects of it; the biggest weakness I perceive is that it does not support/host video posts.


On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 10:12:13 AM UTC-5, Dana Atwood-Blaine wrote:
Hi Michael,
Although I don't have an answer to your question just yet, I am currently exploring the relationship between Siftr and ARIS as well.  I am very interested in this thread and hope to be able to share some insight before long.  The things I have discovered are that when you create a Siftr on the Siftr website, an ARIS game is also created.  The "tags" in that ARIS game are the "categories" from the Siftr site.  So, basically, Siftr and ARIS are already integrated.  I am curious about what you are trying to do that prompted you to ask about a way navigate between Siftr and ARIS?  And what do the developers see as the main affordances of Siftr as it relates to ARIS?

Thanks for bringing up these questions, Michael!  

--Dana
On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 9:56 AM, <michae...@gmail.com> wrote:
When I add a Siftr as a web object in ARIS using the URL (Siftr exists through web browser), I get a "Sorry, there's no Siftr at this URL" message when clicking on the ARIS web object. Visiting Siftr through the same interface shows my Siftr as the most recently added one, so it's there, but I must be doing something wrong with the link? Thoughts?

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michae...@gmail.com

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Aug 27, 2016, 7:35:34 PM8/27/16
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As a note of clarification, I am aware that generating a Siftr automatically generates an ARIS game. However, we were already working to develop an ARIS game when I discovered Siftr. Honestly, I couldn't imagine a viable application within our game context until I saw some of the presentations at the conference, where I came to understood how the Siftr prompts/categories were used. One example invited young students to photograph something interesting and post a poem about it. That intrigued me. Since we are not using these tools in an academic setting and our audience is not captive, there are different user engagement hurdles that we face that those explicitly educating their students do not. So, one might task a class of using Siftr to go do X. But for us, I have to invite/entice our users to use Siftr. The motivations are slightly different. However, within our game, I can imagine using Siftr as an option to post "Reflections" that slow people down and/or task them with filtering their perceptions of the environment in some way. And that's useful. But I can't use it if the user has to gyrate through multiple steps just to get to the map. Ideally, there would be one click. So we'll see how this develops.


On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 10:12:13 AM UTC-5, Dana Atwood-Blaine wrote:
Hi Michael,
Although I don't have an answer to your question just yet, I am currently exploring the relationship between Siftr and ARIS as well.  I am very interested in this thread and hope to be able to share some insight before long.  The things I have discovered are that when you create a Siftr on the Siftr website, an ARIS game is also created.  The "tags" in that ARIS game are the "categories" from the Siftr site.  So, basically, Siftr and ARIS are already integrated.  I am curious about what you are trying to do that prompted you to ask about a way navigate between Siftr and ARIS?  And what do the developers see as the main affordances of Siftr as it relates to ARIS?

Thanks for bringing up these questions, Michael!  

--Dana
On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 9:56 AM, <michae...@gmail.com> wrote:
When I add a Siftr as a web object in ARIS using the URL (Siftr exists through web browser), I get a "Sorry, there's no Siftr at this URL" message when clicking on the ARIS web object. Visiting Siftr through the same interface shows my Siftr as the most recently added one, so it's there, but I must be doing something wrong with the link? Thoughts?

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Christopher Holden

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Aug 29, 2016, 2:47:56 PM8/29/16
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I think one of the general ideas of presenting a siftr within an ARIS game is to have a map-based interface that is extensive (siftr) within an ARIS game that does some storytelling. There is a bit of a rough edge when it comes to media types as siftr only recognizes images, not video or audio. 

The question is if you can get a siftr to resolve as a webpage within ARIS. 

My guess is that the problem has to do with how ARIS prepares and extends the url you insert. If anyone has a game with a working webpage object, maybe you can tell us if you had to augment the usual url.

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Dana Atwood-Blaine

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Aug 29, 2016, 3:35:51 PM8/29/16
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Michael, thank you so much for that detailed explanation of your project and why integrating Siftr and ARIS appeals to you.  I wish I had seen the examples at the ARIS summit, because I, too, am having a difficulty coming up with compelling and interesting reasons and ways to integrate the two, although I am sure there are many!  

In my own dabbling at integrating the two, I was exploring how Siftr might allow Android users to participate in a notebook-based ARIS game, at least at some basic level.  My experience revealed that Siftr users can view ARIS Notebook comments fairly instantaneously, but it takes awhile (more than 30 minutes) for Siftr comments to show up in the ARIS user's Notebook.

And Chris, I know this will seem like a very basic question, but how is Siftr's map better or more extensive than the ARIS map?  I haven't discovered the extra affordances yet, I guess.  

And then, based on this idea of bringing Siftr into an ARIS game via the webpage object option, does that mean that the game designer would then take the ARIS Notebook tab out of the game and use the Siftr webpage as a replacement Notebook?

Thanks,
--Dana

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Craig Brumwell

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Aug 29, 2016, 4:13:14 PM8/29/16
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I may try just having Siftr open on another browser page on my phone and swiping between ARIS and Siftr as a short-term work-around.

Christopher Holden

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Aug 29, 2016, 5:00:32 PM8/29/16
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Dana I just mean the directness and visual ease of the siftr interface in comparison to the notebook and how notes show up on the ARIS map. And I bet deleting the notebook tab (and adding a tab for the siftr page) might be the way to set up the interface. Bear in mind too that this is a bit of a hack, an artifact of the fact that siftr was built out of ARIS. As these platforms evolve, the integrations you come up with and make use of will likely influence their development.

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Michael Timm

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Aug 29, 2016, 7:49:35 PM8/29/16
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Yes, if it worked, I would do what Chris suggests. In fact, I had added such a tab--what we called "Reflections." It just doesn't work (yet?) because of this technical issue that is beyond my ken.
 
Michael Timm
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From: Christopher Holden <chris.l...@gmail.com>
To: "aris...@googlegroups.com" <aris...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2016 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: [ARISGAMES] Navigating between ARIS and Siftr


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Michael Timm

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Aug 29, 2016, 7:50:17 PM8/29/16
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While that is technically feasible, the users with whom I tested our game on Saturday balked at any additional apps and logins. Managing their experience within ARIS is challenge enough. Opening Siftr independently requires a segregated login, even when tried within the ARIS framework, at least it did when I have tried it.

I have to believe this particular problem is actually a Siftr issue, more than an ARIS one, as the web-object link does go through to a Siftr page, just not the proper and specific one, and without bearing the ARIS user's logged-in information, which as I understand it, is supposed to be the advantage of these two platforms cooperating. But again, I do not know precisely what's happening on a technical end.
 
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From: Craig Brumwell <ccbru...@gmail.com>
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Sent: Monday, August 29, 2016 3:13 PM

Subject: Re: [ARISGAMES] Navigating between ARIS and Siftr
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Michael Timm

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Aug 29, 2016, 8:11:13 PM8/29/16
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Interesting. So you had them use Notebook and it posted to a Siftr? I presume you did this in the ARIS game that was generated when you created your Siftr? Did you have your users only post within a scene that was segregated from the rest of your ARIS game action? That is one of the hurdles I face with our experience: avoiding post clutter.

Quite frankly, if Notebook were more elegant, I wouldn't be looking at Siftr. If Notebook could regionate posts, that would be half the battle... 


 
Michael Timm
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From: Dana Atwood-Blaine <dla...@gmail.com>
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Sent: Monday, August 29, 2016 2:35 PM

Subject: Re: [ARISGAMES] Navigating between ARIS and Siftr
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Dana Atwood-Blaine

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Aug 29, 2016, 9:27:27 PM8/29/16
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Mine was purely an exploration into Siftr/ARIS integration, not a full-fledged game with lots of players.  And yes, you are correct, I began with the ARIS game that was created by the Siftr and then I added game elements to it, such as Quests and Plaques, etc.  The ARIS player was able to access the game elements, the Siftr player (on an Android device) did not have game elements.  The ARIS player used the Notebook to contribute media and used the ARIS map to see what had been posted. The Siftr player used only Siftr.  Photos, comments, and map locations were shared between both platforms, although Siftr player comments on ARIS player contributions took a very long time to make it into the ARIS Notebook.  Not sure how long, more testing is necessary to determine how long it takes.  ARIS player comments showed up on the Siftr right away.  What should we explore next?  :-D

Thanks,
--Dana

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David Gagnon

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Aug 30, 2016, 12:24:33 PM8/30/16
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A few thoughts.

1. We have a funded  project underway to REALLY beef up Siftr. Offline, Native Apps, a full form builder, Integration wit a redesigned Nomen, Quests, Leaderboards, etc. We want to create a unified platform for gasified citizen science and ethnography like ARIS is to stories.

2. The delay in the notebook likely has something to do with caching and they would have to leave and renter the game for new notes to show up. IF someone can confirm, I’ll add it as a bug.

David

 
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michae...@gmail.com

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Sep 8, 2016, 12:21:11 PM9/8/16
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I thought I had followed up with my latest observation on this front with this group, but possibly it was an email to Jim Mathews.

There's been a change in the ARIS/Siftr relationship, though still a blockage to what I hoped to do. In our ARIS game, I linked to a unique Siftr as a web object. Previously, this link went through to Siftr but not the unique Siftr. Now (someone may have fixed something?), I am noticing it does link through to the unique Siftr, but in Siftr (within ARIS) it is still prompting me to login with an ARIS or Siftr account (even though by virtue of being in ARIS I am already logged in). If this hiccup could be remedied, these two entities would be playing nice for me.

Thoughts? Similar experiences? Solutions? 

Christopher Holden

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Sep 12, 2016, 12:00:12 AM9/12/16
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There might be two things that I can think of:

1) Have ARIS pass log in information to siftr

2) Make use of the newer iOS features (9 I think) to have web views share login information with Safari. This might not be as seamless, but if you have Safari set to remember you or your login in siftr.org, seeing the same thing in ARIS would not be a further bump.

Nice to know that the general problem with getting the page was fixed. Did you find out the problem's root?

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David Gagnon

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Sep 12, 2016, 6:42:16 PM9/12/16
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I like where you are going with #1. We fixed the incompatibility with using siftr within ARIS (and receiving the extra URL parameters ARIS always sends to webpages) but never really expected to see them so integrated. It is possible for us to modify ARIS to send an authentication string, but it would open a security vulderability if done the cheap and easy way. 

Do you just like the siftr interface better than the notebook?

David





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Christopher Holden

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Sep 12, 2016, 8:58:07 PM9/12/16
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The map view is nicer and can be separate from game contents, even though it is possible to use scenes to separate a bit. Also if you are using siftr beyond the ARIS game, it works to that end. 

But really, this is hypothetical on my end.

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michae...@gmail.com

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Sep 13, 2016, 11:56:16 AM9/13/16
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Speaking for our project, I just wanted to see if I could use Siftr in our ARIS game. Having the user log in twice is a barrier to a seamless experience within their ARIS game. They stop engaging if they are thus blocked.

Notebook is problematic for us for a number of reasons

1. I have to lock folks out from using it in scenes where their posts would muck up the map where pre-curated content exists and where game action takes place.
2. When you click on it there is a non-intuitive-to-too-many screen that confuses the user and requires us to build in pre-prompt instructions that nobody ends up reading anyway, leading to player frustration or confusion.
3. The connection between our Notebook segregated layer and the game action is not seamless (this is our game design issue more than a design flaw in ARIS per se, but as Chris suggests, we have to rig scene switches to get to and from the Notebook layer, which makes it much less useful. I've created a tab on the menu that functions as a scene switcher to this segregated layer. It works, but I have to get them back to the game after interacting with that scene, and they can't just go back to the menu or the map unless they trip another scene change, which is an awkward challenge for me.
4. We don't know how much server space could eventually be taken up if multitudes of evnetual users posted video content to Notebook and how this could hamstring the game loading experience.

Siftr promised to provide a segregated layer for people to post stuff that looked like an answer to some of these problems (certainly 1 and 3). But if I direct a user to Siftr in my context, I don't want to drive them "out of the game." I would like a more seamless Notebook or Siftr layer to be part of their experience.

So my current experimentation is less about using Siftr-as-a-Siftr than trying to substitute it for Notebook and create a companion layer for/from our game that (this is a Siftr benefit) also exists outside of ARIS so we could link to the map populated by our user comments in a web browser. Of course, Siftr does not let you post video.

I'm not sure if the last question was directed at me or Chris but I thought I would chime in with our process thus far.


On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 5:42:16 PM UTC-5, David Gagnon wrote:
I like where you are going with #1. We fixed the incompatibility with using siftr within ARIS (and receiving the extra URL parameters ARIS always sends to webpages) but never really expected to see them so integrated. It is possible for us to modify ARIS to send an authentication string, but it would open a security vulderability if done the cheap and easy way. 

Do you just like the siftr interface better than the notebook?

David

On Sep 11, 2016, at 11:00 PM, Christopher Holden <chris.l...@gmail.com> wrote:

There might be two things that I can think of:

1) Have ARIS pass log in information to siftr

2) Make use of the newer iOS features (9 I think) to have web views share login information with Safari. This might not be as seamless, but if you have Safari set to remember you or your login in siftr.org, seeing the same thing in ARIS would not be a further bump.

Nice to know that the general problem with getting the page was fixed. Did you find out the problem's root?
On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 10:21 AM, <michae...@gmail.com> wrote:
I thought I had followed up with my latest observation on this front with this group, but possibly it was an email to Jim Mathews.

There's been a change in the ARIS/Siftr relationship, though still a blockage to what I hoped to do. In our ARIS game, I linked to a unique Siftr as a web object. Previously, this link went through to Siftr but not the unique Siftr. Now (someone may have fixed something?), I am noticing it does link through to the unique Siftr, but in Siftr (within ARIS) it is still prompting me to login with an ARIS or Siftr account (even though by virtue of being in ARIS I am already logged in). If this hiccup could be remedied, these two entities would be playing nice for me.

Thoughts? Similar experiences? Solutions? 

On Wednesday, July 27, 2016 at 11:04:50 AM UTC-5, Craig Brumwell wrote:
Is it possible to navigate back and forth between ARIS and Siftr within a game? Can ARISjs do this?

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