Survival parameters.

[daybrown]

The Venus syndrome does not seem possible because the moon destabilizes the earth's crust with quakes, tides, and volcanoes. But by the same token, there's too many unknowns to say what the climate/weather will be like at any given location. Nor can we expect economies to be reasonable and reduce emissions. They will keep at it til natural disaster destroys the fantasies of further profits and panic sets in, which is likely to lead to a carbon spike from all the fires- without organized control efforts. But those'll burn themselves out by the end of summer, first in one hemisphere, then the other.

Reports from the Arctic/Antarctic on ice and methane levels will provide a few months lead time before summer heat waves reach fatal heat stroke levels. Power grids will crash because substations will go into thermal shutdown, the air conditioning and data processing will quit, and few, if any, of the morbidly obese will survive. Earth bermed tornado shelters and root cellars will be important. Subway stations and below grade parking ramps or anything else will be used even without lights, water, or toilets. Websites, forums, and topics like this will proliferate soon as the weather produces sensational events that increase ratings. Even tho nobody will be buying what is advertised.

The list of historically great empires that were destroyed by the failure to respond appropriately to unforeseen weather, includes all of them. We cant predict the weather either, but we can see those, mostly low latitude, regions most likely to be most severely stressed. We can predict others will see the hazard and move to higher latitudes, more often inland to avoid hurricanes & tsunamis, but also hilly to avoid tornadoes, but not so hilly to be on a fault line and risk volcanism. Nor downwind from a nuclear melt down. And this is just the parameters that come easily to mind. We can also predict the political process wont figure out anything useful to do until it is past time to do anything. Its no longer a case of trying to create a democratic consensus or elect rational candidates.

At best, you may find or form a group that keeps members informed, and how to get from wherever you are to a location where some success is still possible. I've often posited Hudson Bay beachfront, not that I have any particular location in mind, but to say real estate investment hasta think that far out of the box. And if that far out, how are you gonna get where you can rebuild a life? Why did GW Bush buy a ranch in Uruguay? Before TSHTF, the call girls will be leaving Wall Street and DC, and the Good Old Boys will pack for vacations...

[Dale Lanan]

You are wrong about the Venus effect. Moon's gravity may accelerate breakdown of Lithosphere into the higher temp below due to mixing and the likelihood of a continuous temperature inversion in Lower atmosphere to 50 kilometers. The degassing of oceans to vapor will force a moist even..

Life frosting on Earth surface will be assimilated. 

Some think this political and say global warming is off topic on some internet threads. Extinction hangs like by thread now broken that held sword.. Formerly I thought words could get people to move but I think they like work even harder at what keeps them from moving by hold of debt slave monetary. Vultures are rewarded, assets made of parts of Earth's former whole, Open Systems of Nature are now undercut of understory; it is eliminated now to the point of collapse in an heating..

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[Day Brown]

On 06/21/2014 11:30 AM, Dale Lanan wrote:
> You are wrong about the Venus effect. Moon's gravity may accelerate
> breakdown of Lithosphere into the higher temp below due to mixing and
> the likelihood of a continuous temperature inversion in Lower
> atmosphere to 50 kilometers. The degassing of oceans to vapor will
> force a moist even..
> Life frosting on Earth surface will be assimilated.
> Some think this political and say global warming is off topic on some
> internet threads. Extinction hangs like by thread now broken that held
> sword.. Formerly I thought words could get people to move but I think
> they like work even harder at what keeps them from moving by hold of
> debt slave monetary. Vultures are rewarded, assets made of parts of
> Earth's former whole, Open Systems of Nature are now undercut of
> understory; it is eliminated now to the point of collapse in an heating..
>

Polite discourse appreciated Dale. But the thing about the moon, was
that Venus didnt have one, so we cant apply the same progression, at
least without factoring that in. Of course, there may yet be other
unrecognized factors affecting the feedbacks that produce the Venus
syndrome. For instance, Arctic News reported on the increase of
earthquakes. We know these trigger volcanism, and the geologic record is
full of dramatic climate cooling as a result.

Venus didnt have the ice either, nor the shift in location of mass as it
melts, which in turn triggers subsidence & uplift. And more volcanoes.
Its not that the Venus syndrome cannot happen, but that we cant assume
it to be the default.

But agreed, the idea that "words could get people to move" is
delusional. I expect we agree also that the Vultures are driving the
whole world in a race to the bottom. The lack of rain in California has
gotten lotsa feedback, but everyone ignores the ongoing good news of
rain on the Great Plains. So far good; but grain needs dry weather to
harvest. My barley is showing signs of ergot. Along with extinction, we
may see massive explosions as life forms adapt to new opportunity.

The upshot is there's no way to tell; the bunker in the boonies does not
look adequate any more. what will be needed is the ability to evaluate
conditions as they unfold and have the mobility to develop whatever set
of resources will be available among the best locations. A return to
seasonal migrations should also be evaluated. Words wont, but unfamiliar
weather "could get people to move", in which case the means and
destinations will be listened to. So, what are those means and destinations?

[Paul Schofield]

So very sad. Human insanity proves their unsuitabilty for existance, shame we are taking everything with us

[Day Brown]

On 06/21/2014 07:07 PM, Paul Schofield wrote:
> So very sad. Human insanity proves their unsuitabilty for existance,
> shame we are taking everything with us
>

Only fools dont worry. But weather forecasts more than a fortnight ahead
are worthless; why would we think we have all the relevant inputs on a
longer more general climate model? While I'd be very surprised if some
locations became deadly and uninhabitable, I'd also expect some
locations, at least during some seasons, would sustain more adaptable
forms of agriculture. Altho, this in turn begs the question of whether
the social predators will let the gardeners do their work. The same
predatory exploitation that created the problem may still be with us,
and history shows how, when confronted with dis-empowerment, they try to
take everyone else down with them.

We cant tell because they also have too many chiefs and not enuf Indians
so they break into factions, some of which we see already, fighting for
ever smaller resource bases. Gibbon said that in uncertain times (like
this), each rises to the station to which innate talent has endowed (The
Good Old Boy networks no longer hold anyone back), so we may see
charismatic leadership emerge out of nowhere with a plan that rolls over
all opposition and actually turns the bandwagon around.

[gail zawacki]

Seasonal migrations?  Unfortunately, everything habitable is already occupied.  I can't see that working out so well unless the current denizens are dead from some sort of epidemic already.  I guess it worked out pretty well 400 years ago in the Americas, so who knows.

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[Day Brown]

On 06/23/2014 07:52 AM, gail zawacki wrote:
> Seasonal migrations? Unfortunately, everything habitable is already
> occupied. I can't see that working out so well unless the current
> denizens are dead from some sort of epidemic already. I guess it
> worked out pretty well 400 years ago in the Americas, so who knows.
>

Whatever the relatively trivial average amount of warming appears to be,
any change from expected conditions devastates crops, and that makes
land which was densely occupied and managed, left abandoned and possibly
taken over by other life forms. Winter wheat would be ready on the Great
Plains right now, but its too wet to harvest, or if you do, you need to
burn enormous amounts of propane or whatever to dry it before storage.

Agribusiness has federally funded crop insurance, but you dont and will
be paying more for bread. The list of empires that crashed because it
failed to respond appropriately to unexpected weather includes all of
them. "habitation" becomes doubtful. But there's no way to know now
which areas will be habitable now or in subsequent seasons. Arctic news
has shown Arctic coastal waters warm enuf to swim in. There are also
coastal communities that are no longer habitable because wave action
from a more open ocean is so much more powerful.

I've seen Gulf Coast real estate sell for 10,000$/acre, for elevations
under five foot. A single mega-hurricane, which many expect, will adjust
attitudes. But migration to spend winters there in an economy we expect
heating fuel prices to be astronomic, looks attractive. So far. The heat
energy expected with Global warming will also be translated into kinetic
energy in storms. The air temps, that are only a fraction of a degree
warmer produce Tornadoes that are twice as powerful. That kind of thing
blows habitation literally away. Lotsa folks will consider a more
nomadic way of life.

[Dale Lanan]

Well, necessity is the mother of invention and I'm thinking chance or program is being examined, refined and manipulated, I hope, for refinement and development of living Open program to help maximize force for keeping Earth alive. Internet communications network has the ability for best laid plans of mice and men to rise to the top, supervised or winnowed out w women of high note. So to speak..

Maybe it's a bookmark access problem - it was baggage getting in the way when garage too full prob. Mankind needs to clear the decks and focus on keeping Earth alive and restore her systems.

Aligning world economic foundation toward what best serves keeping and restoring Earth systems.

How do you guys like that for rationalization of my losing my cloud based list of bookmarked links?

I'm laying theory and speculation out to align with Open System Thesis. Test of True means Life, Open Systems of Nature are symbiotic with the goals of Civilization at Large and evolution flows....

In essence I need to work out a bookmark access ap best suited to getting the evil from money out.

-So I want allies in high places and baggage reduced so best plan goes forward and keeps Earth- Real.

Stop.

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