So let's get started!

[Jess Ogden]

Hello all-

Hope everyone made it home - or are still traveling safely! Was really
great to meet up with everyone this year.

We've only had 8 people accept the invite to the new Google group so
far, but I figured it was time to send out the first post and get
things moving. I've been doing a lot of thinking about the things we
all discussed at the CAA roundtable (and the pub!), and have a few
questions to pose.

Wiki:
There's been some discussion/questions raised in the CAA Semantic
Special Interest Group (SIG) regarding their wiki, and I thought this
was directly relevant to what we are attempting to do with our new
SIG. They created a hosted wiki (using wikia) last year, and though
they have some user added content, I got the feeling that it's been a
bit stagnant over the last year. They are trying to assess whether or
not Wikia is the platform they want to use, and whether or not they
might want to move to a self-hosted platform on the soon to be CAA
server (once it's set up).

I wanted to make sure that we are still in agreement that we should be
using a self-hosted wiki platform, rather than a wiki farm such as
wikia. There are open source free options (such as Wikia, or
Wetpaint), however the free options do have ads and are subject to
their basic styling layouts (I think). Check out the semantic SIG's
wiki for reference: http://caasemsig.wikia.com/wiki/CAA_Semantic_SIG_Wiki

On the other hand, my employers (L - P: Archaeology) are still willing
to host a self-hosted wiki until the CAA servers are up and running. I
do suggest that if this is the path we would like to go on, we should
approach the relevant steering committee people (Steve Stead?) about
this and figure out what our server requirements will be (php, mysql,
etc.).

Bibliographic Reference Group:
Though we didn't directly discuss this, I thought it might be relevant
to bring up that I've created a Mendeley Group (http://
www.mendeley.com/groups/809351/archaeogeophysics/) and uploaded close
to 180 references to do with archaeological geophysics to the site.
Some (most) contain links to the articles on other sites, or PDF
attachments where allowed. I really think this is an excellent
mechanism for sharing bibliographies relevant to our field of
knowledge, as this is an open, freely searchable and accessible
platform. You have to create a login (free), which allows you access
to the Mendeley web front end. A desktop client is available to
download (multiplatform) and sync to the webclient.

I have also played around with a Zotero group, but it seems that
Mendeley offers some additional features- but am open to discussing
alternative suggestions on this front.

Publicity:
I think we should really start to publicize the group soon. The more
people we get involved the greater interest we might generate, and the
more relevant the outcomes will be. I've had a couple of conversations
with Ant Beck and Ben D about the recent movements, but would be keen
to get some other groups involved, particularly those with experience
in driving these sorts of community-driven projects.

I've been hesitating sending a call to ISAP just yet, because I think
maybe we should clearly outline the aims and scope of what we are
doing first, so as not to confuse the group with 'just another email
list' and avoid ruffling feathers?

And for those of you that I haven't already told- I've uploaded a post
to my blog which contains the 'mindmap' from the roundtable and
geophysics session, in case it's of interest to anyone:
http://jrogden.wordpress.com/2011/04/21/caa-beijing-2011/

Look forward to hearing from all of you soon - and excited about the
future!

Cheers,
Jess Ogden

[Jess Ogden]

And should add that I created a Zotero group as well. (for
Bibliographies) Zotero is a widely used, open source project and I'm
curious if anyone has any thoughts about which one we should be using
for the group.

Jess

> to bring up that I've created a Mendeley Group (http://www.mendeley.com/groups/809351/archaeogeophysics/) and uploaded close

[Christine Markussen]

Hi there,

...in response to your first post and questions. I think perhaps for
a lot of us (including me) the discussion on Wiki platforms is very
new, so we may be relying on those with experience for their judgement
on which type of platform/host to use. It doesn't sound good that the
Semantic SIG seemingly went stagnent using the Wikia and I would hope
we could get things moving no matter what platform we use. Jess and
others, if you feel like the temporary LP server may be the best host
environment, then we probably should discuss this with the appropriate
comitee members and get the format figured out ASAP in order to move
it to the CAA server when the time comes. I'm not entirely sure what
this means or how it will all work so again there may be a learning
curve for some of us. My question is whether we can be a united voice
in getting the CAA server set up faster???? What would we have to do
to make that happen? Or am I dreaming? Does any one know the actual
projected timeline for it?

I'm not totally sure, but the University of Arkansas may also be
interested in hosting server space temporarily, but we would need
others like Fred Limp, Ken Kvamme, and/or Jack Cothren to join this
group. This brings me to the next subject on publicizing this SIG I
think we need to really get started! There is a large archaeological
prospection following that simply could not or would not make it to
the meetings in Beijing and the more people we have to promote and
inspire discussion the better.

So how do we go about getting more people on board? Do we all just
start e-mailing? do we need or want to do it in an organized fashion?
Jess, are you the only one that can add people to this google group?
If we do start e-mailing, having a standard e-mail with key phrases
and the SIG goals outline would be helpful in sparking peoples
interest. Perhaps a reformatted 'mind map' (thanks for that Jess!)
could be sent out.

In addition to the link to the mind map in this discussion I'd like to
see the notes posted that Axel was taking pertaining to goals perhaps
in a bulleted format (we can already check off the goal of forming the
MAP SIG at the general meeting, yay!). Having the goals of the SIG
directly identified within this discussion will be a good reminder and
help everyone understand how much they want to be a part of and
contribute to our group.

I'd like to point out that a good portion of the bibliographic
materials that Jess was uploading to Mendeley and Zotero, came from
the references listed on NADAG (right Jess?). With that and the
already created tutorial reference that Eileen (can you provide us
that link, Eileen?) was talking about during the roundtable, it is
evident that we have a lot of information already out there right now
and it shouldn't be too hard to coordinate it and pull it together to
make the hosted web environment reference environment we are planning
successful!

Anyway, just some thoughts! I look forward to future discussions and
hope everyone stays active!
Christine

> > Jess Ogden- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Eileen Ernenwein]

I agree with Christine. I don't know a thing about how to set up/run a wiki.

I think we could definitely get CAST on board as a host. I could email Jack (director and my boss) and also talk to Fred (former director) about it. I think they would be in favor, but we need a clear idea first. Maybe we have one, but I'm still a little foggy on the whole thing. ;) CAST already has a nicely organized website now and we have forums. We could very easily create a user forum for the SIG.

I think I could email a lot of folks to get them on board. Not sure how many would actually get on board, but I imagine we could spread the word this way fairly effectively.

tutorials: I can't find them!!  ok so I know I just said the CAST website was well organized, but I think these have been moved from the regular place to the intranet (internal only), but I don't know why. I emailed some folks at CAST to see where they might be. In my files I have "how to's" for the dual  Bartington Gradiometer. All of my other "how to's" are a bit dated (processing GPR data in Radan, operating the Trimble 5600 robotic total station, operating some of the CAST GPS units). I also have drafts of instructions for the EM38MK2 and the GSSI SIR-3000 that I have not finished yet for CAST library.

bibliography: I have a ton in EndNote that I'm sure could be put into Zotero or the other one Jess mentioned. When you are ready for that let me know.

Hope to see things start taking off!

Eileen




Eileen G. Ernenwein, PhD

Research Associate
Center for Advanced Spatial Technologies
University of Arkansas, Fayetteville, USA
http://url.cast.uark.edu/cr

Director of Research
Foxfire Geophysics
http://foxfiregeophysics.com/
Mariette, SC, USA

Adjunct Faculty
Department of Geosciences
East Tennessee State University
Johnson City, TN, USA
Office: 305 Yoakley Hall
phone: 433-439-7655
cell: 423-737-4449

[Jess Ogden]

I think we should think long and hard about sustainability with this project/group. I fear that putting it on a university server (however supportive people may be at present) presents a number of issues of access for present and future use. It means that we could potentially be at the mercy of university IT folks for 'backend' access to servers, and if at any point the relevant stakeholders leave the university or lose interest, the project is then potentially put at risk?

I am still supportive of a CAA hosted site (which we will hopefully have a clearer timescale for in the coming weeks), which could be hosted at L - P (my employers) in the meantime. I should stress that the L - P hosting was just a suggestion to get the project moving, and to prevent us from losing momentum from the recent CAA meeting. If need be, we can simply wait on the CAA server.

That being said- I am very open to discussion, and am curious what everyone's thoughts are on this.

Cheers!

Jess

[Eileen Ernenwein]

I think the possibility of CAST hosting temporarily is similar to the L-P option. CAST is not a University department. It is an institution with a huge full time IT staff. That last director (Fred) served for I think 30 years as director, and is now chair of SAA. The current director seems to be on the path to stay in that role long term too. But if what we need is a temporary host, then I think it does not matter too much. I guess we'll know soon (I hope) how "temporary" it might be. I'm thinking it might be best to go with L-P, since Jess will then have lots of control and she is so active in this.

Eileen

[Eileen Ernenwein]

CAST is creating a whole new website called CAST GeoMetaVerse (GMV), which includes how-to's, tutorials, etc for geophys, GIS, Remote Sensing, GPS, Modelling, Photogrammetry, photography, and scanning. It is an NSF funded project and will be available sometime this year. Right now it is not public, and under construction. It is already quite extensive so I think our SIG should probably link to there, but those how-to's that I author I could also put up directly. Turns out the geophys section of the GMV is awaiting for me to upload my stuff, so a double to-do for me.

ok enough about CAST right? Just following up on the how-to stuff.

;)

[Anthony Beck]

Excellent thread. I'm really sorry I don't have the time to do it all justice at the minute. 

In collaboration with the Open Knowledge Foundation a group of us are developing a methodology store. We should kick this out to public approval quite soon (I've been saying that for a few months, but light is at the end of the tunnel). It's all quite open ended at the moment. The intention is to describe methodologies, algorithms, processes etc. We would also like to capture the discussions surrounding how the different digital objects develop. You could consider it as capturing the metadata surrounding the development of the discipline (or Capturing the History of Archaeological Science (nearly a good grant acronym CHAOS ;-). We are starting with a wiki. However, who know where it may end up.... Personally I would like to see some of the methods/processes/algorithms articulated automatically through workflow enactors using cloud processing (but that's the long term).

I can see something like this complementing CAST nicely. Ultimately whatever is produced should be able to be faceted for a number of different audiences.

Best

Ant

[BillWilcox]

Hi all,

Jess – thanks for kicking off these discussions!

I agree with Christine and would leave the decisions about the type of wiki
or where to host it to others with more experience than myself. I would of
course support such decisions but I also agree that using a CAA server (when
available) would give the group more creditability.

At the meeting I agreed to write a ‘getting started guide’ or ‘cheat sheet’
to archaeological prospection/prediction for beginners, which I have
started. When completed I will have it reviewed/checked by one or two other
members of the group and will send it to Jess to upload

I think that the idea of a bibliography is brilliant. In my opinion, there
are three or four ‘key’ publications that anyone venturing into the subject
should read. To aid someone new to the subject, what about high-lighting
those publications which the group considers obligatory reading for
beginners? I know that some of the past papers on the subject given at CAA
conferences have been published. The bibliography in my thesis contains
various relevant publications and some websites. I would be happy to remove
any irrelevant publications and offer it as a starting point for the
bibliography and let other members add to it. What about expanding the idea
of a bibliography to include websites?

Again I agree that we need to attract more members and need to advertise the
group. Targeted emails to interested people or posting on similar wikis to
advertise the group is a good idea. What about a PDF A4 poster advertising
the group, which can be downloaded by any member and posted at their
respective universities or handed out at conferences etc? The notes taken by
Axel would be useful for this.

Regards to all,

Bill Wilcox

Hi there,

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07:34:00

[John Pouncett]

Hi all,
Good to catch up with you all over the last week or so - maybe next
time for those i didn't catch up with/meet in Beijing.

The big mo - glad to see that there is some momentum on this. Long
may it continue!

Server - thanks for the generous offers for hosting short term/long
term. I can add a third offer from my end (although from a purely
selfish point of view - a larger organisation offers a larger support
network!). There is a wish list circulating amongst the CAA Steering
Committee for the CAA server. I'm happy to add a line entry to the
list for hosting for SIGs. With a little luck it shouldn't be long
before a CAA server is up and running, albeit possibly a temporary
lease of a server. If memory serves, a short team lease of a LAMP
server may be in the offing which would offer the basic requirements
for a wiki (Apache, MySQL and PHP). Which leads me onto...

Wiki - my preference would be a self-hosted platform. A couple of
options spring to mind: 1) MediaWiki http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki
; 2) TikiWiki http://info.tiki.org/Tiki+Wiki+CMS+Groupware . There
are plenty of other options - these two are just a starting point if
anyone is interesting in exploring new subject areas. Once we know
exactly what we want (and which server we will be using) it will be
easier to make a decision. I have no preferences on which option we
plump for but some options are [even] easier to configure than others
- if the server has Fantastico, for example, installation and
configuration of TikiWiki or PhpWiki is simple.

Affliation - never mention politics, religion or money... . Short
term, hosting through a commercial organisation or university is fine
(again, thanks for the generous offers!). Long term, hosting on the
CAA server may be a better option (although not without pitfalls).
Already there seems to be a core of people who want to contribute -
reliance on an individual person or organisation is never a good
thing. If the CAA route is the way to go is it worth hanging fire a
couple of weeks (assuming a server is imminent) to avoid compounding
teething problems with migration issues?!?!

Dissemination - the more the merrier. I'd be tempted to suggest an
organised strategy. If there are obvious people to bring in early
doors it would be sensible to do so. After that it will be easier to
gain support once the wiki is up and running and there is something
tangible to offer. Even POC would give us something to pitch. As
things evolve we need to think strategically, increasing the gene pool
through publicity will help fill any gaps that emerge or compliment
existing strengths.

Wheel - and the reinvention there of. Already, a lot of complimentary
resources have been mentioned - some of which I've heard of, others of
which i haven't (a positive already). If we can make as much use of
these resources as possible (at least in the short term, until the
wider community falls into line with the plan for world domination),
time/effort invested can be prioritised to ensure the best return
possible (whether filing gaps, promoting or...).

Clearly my mind still hasn't found the same time zone as my body -
better call it a day there before I revert to teaching people how to
suck eggs.
Best wishes
John

[Verhagen, J.W.H.P.]

Wow, what a huge number of ideas and reactions! I'm attaching the minutes of our little meeting for those interested.

First of all, let it be clear that we took a broad definition of archaeological prospection in our initial proposal, and this text could probably be used on our website-to-be as well:

"Archaeological prospection entails all techniques that can be used to detect archaeological remains on or below the earth's surface. This includes fieldwork methods (like field survey and geophysical prospection) as well as desk-top based techniques (like remote sensing and predictive modeling). Note that this is a broader definition of archaeological prospection than customary. Most archaeologists confine the term prospection to 'direct' discovery techniques that can locate archaeological features with relative accuracy. However, we want to emphasize that there is a continuum in mutually dependent methods that can be applied for the detection of archaeological remains, ranging from fairly generalized predictive models to highly specific geophysical measurements and trial trenching."

So, there could be lots of stuff headed under this group, not just geophysics or predictive modelling, and the best thing would of course be that this group could lead to some sort of cross-fertilization between the different subdisciplines involved.

Considering the Wiki-stuff: totally inexperienced with it myself, so I will go with any solution that seems appropriate to the more experienced people here. In terms of hosting the stuff, the CAA-server is the preferred way to go, but I don't know how long this is going to take, since the wish list John mentions still needs to be elaborated - but please put this on the list, John! The main issue at the moment is however that we want to put the digitized CAA proceedings online, and for this a server (don't ask me any details, sometimes I wonder how I ever ended up in computing at all) can be set up by Steve Stead within short notice, it seems. But I certainly don't think we should wait for that, despite the possibility of teething problems in migration. So I would say: go ahead with the L-P hosting option for the short term, since it is simple and does not involve negotiating with larger organisations or funding bodies (sorry Eileen, but the things you wrote about CAST really worry me in this respect). In any case it should be clear that this is a CAA-SIG.

While the support of the OKF is of course great, not all of this in the Open Knowledge realm, since it is not just about collecting tools and algorithms; if they can however advise on how to organize this particular aspect, or even take over some of the burden when it comes to making tools available, that would make a huge difference I think.

That's all for the moment; Jess, can you tell us soon what you can do when with regard to the hosting and setting up a wiki? I think advertising it to the outside world should wait a little bit until we have some content to show :)

Best,

Philip

-----Original Message-----
From: arch...@googlegroups.com [mailto:arch...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Pouncett
Sent: dinsdag 26 april 2011 12:09
To: Methods in Archaeological Prospection
Subject: [ArchPros] Re: So let's get started!

[Axel]

First day back in my office after Beijing and some days off for Easter
holidays - I ams till trying to cope with all those emails that were
waiting for me :-(

So just a few short remarks:
- I agree, we should start with the L-P hosting, I don't think that
there will be many problems migrating the stuff to the CAA server-to-
be
- I have never set up a wiki, but I guess it can't be that
complicated ;-) maybe with the help of some of the knowing it
should be possible to deal with that
- I would also suggest to spread the word as soon and as wide as
possible. I will add a short note to the ArchaeoLandscapes website so
that it will be available as soon as we officially launch the site
(beginning of June), I will also send a short note to our project
partners so that they will know about the existence of the google
group and can join the discussion.

Best,

Axel




On 26 Apr., 17:15, "Verhagen, J.W.H.P." <jwhp.verha...@let.vu.nl>
wrote:

> ; 2) TikiWikihttp://info.tiki.org/Tiki+Wiki+CMS+Groupware.  There

>  minutes round table CAA2011.doc
> 36KAnzeigenHerunterladen