KB sexual assault policy discussion

[Isa Ritchie]

This is serious. We need to take it seriously or we are all responsible for turning a blind eye.

We need to have a clear definition of what constitutes sexual assault and how it is investigated.

I think it should result in instant banning.

We also should have operational policy about notifying the police and keeping records etc.

[Wendy]

I agree we need a policy but I'd like to see some suggested wording before I'm.prepared to put my time into this discussion.

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[Isa Ritchie]

I think this is still at a pre-wording stage. It would be good to have information about what we already do operationally and hear people's perspectives before we come up with wording.

I will come up with wording for this one though, provided we get the required input.

[Wendy]

I believe you have access to the excom Dropbox, where any policy we have around this will be stored. If you want an ops perspective, Poppy will have to be copied in separately as indicated in my post the other day.

[Isa Ritchie]

Also, it would be useful to see what other burns have in terms of sexual assault policy. Could Lumous or one of the other regional reps ask around and gather information?

[Nicola]

We've discussed with regionals before, the information we have so far is here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/kiwiburnexcomlive/%22sexual$20assault%22|sort:relevance/kiwiburnexcomlive/3HHvtHZ1XkA/I3Y87ZpKztwJ

Could be a useful start.

[Isa Ritchie]

Thanks Nicola :)

[ben curran]

Do we have a basic code of conduct somewhere? As a starting point I mean.

On Saturday, September 17, 2016 at 11:38:28 AM UTC+12, Isa wrote:

Thanks Nicola :)

On 17/09/2016 11:37 am, "Nicola" <nicola....@gmail.com> wrote:

We've discussed with regionals before, the information we have so far is here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/kiwiburnexcomlive/%22sexual$20assault%22|sort:relevance/kiwiburnexcomlive/3HHvtHZ1XkA/I3Y87ZpKztwJ

Could be a useful start.

On Saturday, 17 September 2016 10:02:21 UTC+12, Isa wrote:

Also, it would be useful to see what other burns have in terms of sexual assault policy. Could Lumous or one of the other regional reps ask around and gather information?

On 17/09/2016 09:53, "Isa Ritchie" <confust...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think this is still at a pre-wording stage. It would be good to have information about what we already do operationally and hear people's perspectives before we come up with wording.

I will come up with wording for this one though, provided we get the required input.

On 17/09/2016 09:36, "Wendy" <tat...@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree we need a policy but I'd like to see some suggested wording before I'm.prepared to put my time into this discussion.

On 17 Sep 2016 9:13 a.m., "Isa Ritchie" <confust...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is serious. We need to take it seriously or we are all responsible for turning a blind eye.

We need to have a clear definition of what constitutes sexual assault and how it is investigated.

I think it should result in instant banning.

We also should have operational policy about notifying the police and keeping records etc.

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[Brendan]

The investigations guide (on the thread that Nicola linked to) looks very useful.

I'd like to take some more time to read through that before I comment further.

[Brendan]

I think that the investigations guide linked to above is spot-on and encourage everyone to read it as a starting point for discussion.

It's not up to us to determine if someone committed a crime. Multiple, credible complaints establish a pattern of behaviour and unacceptable risk to the community. We're considering eviction / banning based on the fact that complaints are made not due to finding someone guilty of a crime beyond reasonable doubt.

I believe in a zero-tolerance policy in respect to sexual assault. Similar to breaching the fire perimeter I suggest that this results in an instant eviction from the site and instigation of a banning investigation (which would still be subject to due process).

The problem is that unlike a sexual assault, breach of the fire perimeter is a public action taking place in front of hundreds of witnesses. Sexual assault allegations are never as clear-cut. I suggest instant trespass and investigation with a view to banning unless the Site Manager has reason to believe that the allegation(s) may not be credible. I also fully acknowledge that such a judgment can be very problematic. Bear in mind that multiple complaints, witnesses etc add significant weight to an allegation. I expect that most complaints, once investigated, would be considered "credible" in this context (and that a single, unsupported complaint can still be considered "credible").

Note that the investigations guide (which I agree with) doesn't consider a single complaint grounds for banning, but a warning is often enough to deter the accused from attending in the future. Complaints regarding more than one incident would be required to establish a pattern of behaviour. Several witnesses to a single incident would add significant weight and we would need to consider banning in such a situation on a case-by-case basis (I don't think that a blanket policy can cover this).

As for a definition of sexual assault. I've done some research and concluded that a) my browser history now looks dodgy and b) the crimes act isn't much help. Sorry, that's not a helpful outcome but surely there's a common-sense definition that we can use somewhere without having to write one ourselves.

[Wendy]

I don't think we need to define sexual assault. If the victim defines it thus, that is the definition we use in the language of consent we are encouraging.

I also think this discussion/policy should include other forms of assault, with the aim of taking a strong stance against attacks on people (as opposed to attacks on property, which was the test case that initiated the banning policy we have now).

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[Pete Wyatt]

I think that we can remove the word 'sexual' from this conversation as any assault against a person is against our community standards.

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[ben curran]

expanding (I think) on what Brendan said with regards to the public/private distinction in the fire perimeter/assault comparison. I'm not to concerned about that to be honest. If the site manager believes a complaint is credible, then we should be evicting. May sound a little harsh, but I'd rather we mistakenly evicted someone rather than not evict someone and have participants feeling unsafe. 

Am I right in thinking that a single complaint (found to be credible by site manager) gets eviction and a warning/education, multiple complaints results in an investigation with a potential ban? That's how I'm reading this conversation at the moment. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

Also, I'm assuming that it's not necessary to have two complaints of the same type before an investigation is initiated. i.e. breach of fire perimeter and a single assault complaint would be enough to instigate an investigation. 

What other ... transgressions are there that get people on a list? (This may be skewing off-topic a bit, ignore it if it is). 

Semi-related. How often do banning discussions come up in excom? For assault and/or other reasons. I'm aware of one or two over the years, but I'm assuming I'm not aware of the full extent of the problems.

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[Wendy]

There have been three banning investigations since 2014, two of which resulted in bans. 

There is an eviction policy in the Kiwiburn Dropbox. Nicola has been reorganising, and is probably a better person to tell you where it is.

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[Nicola]

It's under Excom documents/Department Documentation/By Document/Procedural Manual. Not my folder logic on this one, but I just use the search function ;)

[Isa Ritchie]

Okay. Since there have been no further comments here, I will suggest wording.

Any sexual assault or other assault that results in eviction from the Kiwiburn festival event automatically initiates a banning process, including investigation and right of reply, to be carried out by the ExCom after the event.

[Wendy]

This works for me.  I like simple.

Probably an aside to this but I'd like to tighten up the documentation requirements around evictions because if we're making it so that some banning investigations are instigated by eviction rather than complaint, we'll need to make sure there's sufficient information available for the ExCom to perform a thorough and fair investigation.

[Isa Ritchie]

I was thinking that as well.

[Pete Wyatt]

if somebody has been evicted there needs to be documented evidence available to be reviewed by the excom

[Wendy]

I've been thinking about this, and I'd like to see it written somewhere, preferably somewhere public like the website or the survival guide, that Kiwiburn's stance on what constitutes assault is based in the view of the victim.  There are probably better words around this, but I think it's important to be a) making this clear to people, and b) be seen to be taking this stance as a way of role modelling ways of dismantling of rape culture.

[Pete Wyatt]

good thinking (as always)

[Hana]

Hey everyone,

I'm working on creating a resource for women at Kiwiburn that focuses on navigating the festival world (this is a side project). I wanted to include a section on what to do if someone experiences sexual harassment/assault at KB. I checked out the website and survival guide, but I don't see any information around this except that obviously KB would like to prevent this kinda thing from happening.

As, Wendy said, I also think it's important to have this procedure/policy on the website and in the event guide. I don't think people know what to do if they feel they need to make a complaint. IMO Kiwiburn needs to be more accountable for providing clear and simple processes for people who may be feeling vulnerable. 

I feel it's quite important to have some form of definition around what constitutes as sexual assault/harassment, as often people don't feel empowered to call something assault, when in fact it is. Having a definition provides people with affirmations of their own experience when they may be doubting themselves or feeling scared to speak out. 

Some language/definition could be:

• Harassment is when you are made to feel uncomfortable by inappropriate language, behavior or actions, but ultimately harassment is defined by the person experiencing it.

• Assault is ANY unwanted sexual contact or touching. Even over your clothes. Ultimately harassment is defined by the person experiencing it.

I don't think many Site Manager's would have the training to appropriately deal with harassment/assault? It would be great to have someone, or a few people who are on-call, who have experience with this kind of situation. I know this was done one year in the past and maybe that person would be keen to fill this role again. 

I'm a bit passionate about this at the moment, so I'm happy to help out where I can with this!

[Wendy]

I like these definitions, and the idea of an info page about how to contact people on site.

I actually think that a general info page about 'what if you have a complaint?' might be an idea.  Which would include information like the above about how to get support on site, but also how to talk to Kiwiburn after the event about anything that happened.  We do lack a good, publicly-obvious feedback mechanism in general, and while people who are really determined to be heard are getting through I do wonder how many people would like to bring stuff up but can't work out how.

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[Wendy]

Found this in my travels, in a guide for organisations on developing a sexual harrassment policy:

A sexual harassment policy should include the following:

• a strong opening statement on the organisation’s stance on sexual harassment
• an outline of the organisation’s objectives regarding sexual harassment
• a clearly worded definition of sexual harassment
• specific examples of sexual harassment that may be relevant to the particular working environment
• a statement of what is not sexual harassment
• a statement that sexual harassment is against the law
• examples of places and times where unlawful sexual harassment may happen e.g. in the office, work conferences, work field trips etc.
• the consequences for employees if the policy is breached
• responsibilities of management and staff
• information on where individuals can get help, advice or make a complaint
• a brief summary of the options available for dealing with sexual harassment

[ben curran]

From all the discussions about code of conduct at conferences that I've seen over the last couple of years, one of the most important things is actually following through with and actually doing something about complaints. Which is what the "the responsibilities of management and staff" point is about I'm thinking. It would also suggest that Hana's idea of having someone who know what they're doing on call is an excellent idea. Do we know who it was that did it year's past? If they're not keen to do it again, then they'd probably be a good person to talk to to try and find people who are.

[Wendy]

I am not aware of any specific person who has taken this role. However, I think the best place to look for such a person is among the Rangers.  I will also keep an eye out for any of those types of skills among the volunteers.

Further down the page where I found that stuff there was some stuff about having a clear process for making complaints and another for investigating them, and making sure that these processes are known to everyone.

So it sounds like we're on track, but it does need someone to take charge and put some words together. Isa and Hana have made a great start, let's keep up the momentum!

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[Hana Tuwhare]

Yeah, perhaps having a few rangers who are open to learning some new skills around a role like this would be great. It would be irresponsible for any ol' person to put their hand up for a role like this, when they don't have the skills or an understanding of what it might mean. In an ideal word we'd have several skilled and available volunteers, not sure how likely this is, but something worth promoting and working towards. 

I thought Porcelain had done this role in a semi-informal way a few years back at Kiwiburn, but she doesn't seem to remember! She used to hold a sexual assault liaison type role at Nowhere. She would be happy to liaise with Rangers about this, or help us develop a process.

I could draft up a sexual harassment policy that uses the points Wendy provided (I'm volun-tolding myself for this but am keen to work on this with anyone else who's down)? Then we could sort out more particular details once we have something more wordy to work with?

[Wendy]

That would be awesome thank you Hana!

Meanwhile, I'll liaise with Jeanne about Rangers with potential.

[Hana Tuwhare]

"Further down the page where I found that stuff there was some stuff about having a clear process for making complaints and another for investigating them, and making sure that these processes are known to everyone.'

Are you able to point me int he direction of this?

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[Wendy]

https://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/sex-discrimination/publications/effectively-preventing-and-responding-sexual-harassment

Australian but translatable.

[Wendy]

OK, update time.

As some of you might be aware, there's been a side discussion on this going on in the facebook group for Women of Kiwiburn.  This has brought a number of women from the community into the discussion, including women with experience from other areas.  I am very confident that what will come out of this process is not only a comprehensive and suitable policy document, but a level of community engagement on the issue that will help with spreading the word and the culture.  I love that this sort of thing can happen without it having to happen here.  ExCom obviously has to sign off the final document, but the process this is taking makes me very happy.  I've dropped in there and asked that they consider way of making sure the community is aware of who to talk to and how to raise issues, and also making sure people are confident that issues raised will be heard and responded to.

Secondly, I've been having a side discussion with Jeanne about Rangers and how they fit into this.  While the Site Management team deals with evictions and the nuts and bolts of dealing with reported situations, part of what we'd like to achieve is:

a) appropriate responses to this type of situation in terms of victim support - pastoral care that helps people feel safe and gives them help to deal with the situation while the SM team gets on with their job

b) making sure the community at large knows and feels comfortable with the processes for raising complaints both during and after the event.

To that end, Jeanne has been getting set up to train a group of 4-6 Rangers who have experience in nursing, psych, counselling etc.  To support this, she will be enlisting Koi (Kirsty from the Seed Rangers who was here this year) as her 2IC.  Koi is experienced as a Seed Ranger.  She's got a degree in psychology, training in social work, is an advanced first aider and has current Domestic Violence Responder training.  Jeanne is a nurse and has worked for Rape Crisis, so between them they are in a good position to create a small response team who can work gently with any victims on site, and provide them a quiet place of support.

There are 3-4 people on the volunteer list that I'll follow up with to see if they are keen to be part of this.

So that's where this is at right now.  I'd like to hear what people think of this, and also whether there are any gaps that aren't currently being worked on that should be.

[Rainbow Ronan]

i'm really happy this is happening and think everything outlined here is great. the more we pursue this, the more people we train up, and the better policy we write the safer and more enjoyable our festival becomes. good works guys :)

[Isa Ritchie]

Yeah. That sounds great. Good to have collaborative input on policy like this.

[Hana Tuwhare]

Oh wow, the team that Jeanne is putting together sounds fantastic! I'm also feeling confident about that side discussion happening on FB. Can I share the info about the team that Jeanne is forming on the FB group?

While I am feeling pretty good about the engagement with the ladies, I'm now seeing a bit of a gap in developing extra support for the male-identifying peeps. On the women's group conversation we have been talking about different spaces depending on how far the individual wants to escalate. There is discussion of a Red Tent (see below) where people can go if they just want to vent/be quiet/learn how to deal with those situations in a safe space. Rangers would be the next escalation. And then a private tent space with some lovely ladies where someone can stay if they are being continually harassed by a friend/campmate. So while there is support at a rangers level for the fellas, I'm not sure how to accommodate above and below that level. I'm not really sure how to gauge if this is something that is wanted or needed. 

Also also, someone is keen to create a Red Tent, which is a women's space. This would be a workshop/chill space but also a much more low-key place for women to vent or just find support. Going to a more 'official' rangers type thing can feel unnecessary/scary/over the top for some people and then a lot of opportunities for dealing with harassment are missed. They are hoping to apply for an innovation grant to get this going, but I'm wondering if there would be any monetary support for this? 

--

[Wendy]

1. I think messaging Jeanne to check with her would be prudent before sharing on FB, but I'm fine with it.    

2. I think it's worth applying for an innovation grant for this. It's the sort of thing that would fit as a community innovation that supports improving infrastructure for the community.  Disclaimer: not on the grants team so don't really get a say but I would say go for it.

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[Pete Wyatt]

as the person who encouraged the innovation grants thing to happen I would encourage you to apply, innovation grants were created so that we can make Kiwiburn a better place

[Wendy]

I don't know why but the 'Reply All' keeps doing strange things with responses and cutting Hana out.  I have changed this so that it's now being received by:

All ExCom members

Paul

Hana

Poppy

Hope this is Ok.  Hana, the bits you missed should be in 'show quoted text'.  :)

[Hana Tuwhare]

1. Could someone send me Jeanne's contact details?

2. Coolio :-)

[Wendy]

Done!

[Rainbow Ronan]

as a male identifying individual I can say I personally have never felt the need for a male only space, and i feel the lack of discussion about one would point to not needing one at this time. that's said I do think it's a good idea, and maybe we could float the idea on Facebook and see if anyone wants to put the time in to making it happen

I also think applying for an innovation grant is a good idea

[ben curran]

With the rider that I'm guessing I'm not particularly representative of fairly diverse groups that make up 50ish% of the population, I'd second the notion that I've never felt the need for one and the hope that the lack of discussion indicates a lack of need.  

We're better off not assuming though possibly? One wonders if when announcements are made about things like a red tent and the like, whether it would be worth making a note that no one on the male side of the community has stepped up to create similar spaces/discussions for men, but that they would be supported if they did? Just to make it known that if someone feels like they need/want it that it's a possibility? Kiwiburn, like a large chunk of the rest of the world, doesn't strike me as particularly more dangerous/threatening for men as opposed to women. Which is a depressing thing to write, but there it is. 

 

Done!

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[Hana Tuwhare]

"One wonders if when announcements are made about things like a red tent and the like, whether it would be worth making a note that no one on the male side of the community has stepped up to create similar spaces/discussions for men, but that they would be supported if they did?"

That sounds like a sensible idea :-)

On another note, I am now having people coming forward to tell me they have experienced harassment/assault at KB in the past.  I have not asked people to share this with me, its just kinda happening. There was talk of creating an official complaints page on the website, but in the meantime, how do people make a formal complaint if they would like to? Someone has expressed they are reluctant to make a complaint as they are concerned about creating extra work for volunteers, which highlights how important it is to make sure those support/complaint channels are really visible in the future. 

[Wendy]

To make an official complaint, please tell them to email comm...@kiwiburn.com. Any complaints sent to this address will be forwarded to the ExCom to be dealt with.  And please reassure them that we are more than happy to hear from them.  There has been a lot of talk in the last year or so about breaches of consent and inappropriate behaviour at Kiwiburn, and we are powerless to do anything about it (outside what we're doing regarding policy and structure, I mean about specific situations) unless people make official complaints.  We are updating our processes to try and make this easier, but at the moment it takes someone making  a complaint before we are able to act, and it's very frustrating when we know that far more goes on than we hear about.

I cannot stress enough that this is not 'creating extra work' - it's something we want to happen, to allow us to take what action we can to root this bullshit out of our community.  PLEASE encourage them to come forward.

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[Hana Tuwhare]

Thank you Wendy. And just checking that email address is private, not public right?

[Wendy]

Absolutely.  It's monitored by the Secretary and only 2 people have access.

[Wendy]

I should also add that it doesn't matter how long ago the incident occurred, we'd still like to hear about it.

On 11 October 2016 at 21:56, Paul Chaffe <Paul....@horizons.govt.nz> wrote:

Remembering that you pay me to provide the HoS role for the community, I'm happy to help anyone at anytime and it's not creating any more work for me or volunteers :)

Paul Chaffe: Emergency Management / Principal Rural Fire Officer

Horizons Regional Council | 24 hr freephone 0508 800 800 | www.horizons.govt.nz

T twitter.com/horizonsrc | FB facebook.com/horizonsregionalcouncil

This email is covered by the disclaimers which can be found by clicking here.

[ben curran]

That's alarming. As in it sounds very much like there might be a problem with harassment at Kiwiburn, but have we have been unaware of it, or at least,  unaware of the extent, because we or assumed everything was ... okayish. Or at the very least,  I've been unaware of it.

The don't want to cause extra work thing is something we need to work on. Any ideas as to how? And if we can get it reported,  we should,  I think be prepared for a year or two of record eviction numbers.

[Isa Ritchie]

There is a problem with harassment everywhere. Kiwiburn is no exception.

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[Wendy]

If it becomes necessary we can set up a small team dedicated to this work.  At the moment I think the ExCom is able to cover it, and I second what Isa said.  I'm old enough and have enough of a resting bitch face that I don't experience this any more, but I'm well aware of the extent of it.  If you have a google of 'harrassment at festivals' it's a global thing.

I'm glad awareness is expanding - makes it easier to stomp on it when everyone sees it.

[Isa Ritchie]

From Paul:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Paul Chaffe" <Paul....@horizons.govt.nz>
Date: 12/10/2016 09:39
Subject: Re: KB sexual assault policy discussion
To: "confust...@gmail.com" <confust...@gmail.com>
Cc:

Hi Isa,

For some reason even though I'm included in the email traffic I can't reply to the 'group'.

There's been a few troublemakers every year, when we are alerted to them we have dealt with the situation swiftly, sometimes a bit too fast (haven't had all the facts together) but this has now been addressed.

Remember Kiwiburn pays me to take on the role of HoS and as such participants should feel like they are causing anyone any extra work by reporting these idiots.

Paul

Paul Chaffe: Emergency Management / Principal Rural Fire Officer

[Isa Ritchie]

Thanks Paul, I think you and your team and our site managers do a great job of dealing with the trouble makers who people allert you to.

There are also quite a few people who fly under the radar and engage in night club style harassment. Groping and creeping on the dance floor for instance. This kind of thing can be hard to identify or report because you don't always see the people and it doesn't seem serious enough to report. It can be hard to find people at Kiwiburn to report things to as well. Intoxicated people often aren't aware of their behaviour and are hard to talk to.

We made 'creeper cards' this year as a way of warning people, and have some to Paddock Relief but I don't know if they were used or effective.

We don't have the capacity to monitor all the parties all the time, so it's really about trying to change the culture as much as possible.

On 12/10/2016 09:39, "Paul Chaffe" <Paul....@horizons.govt.nz> wrote:

Hi Isa,

For some reason even though I'm included in the email traffic I can't reply to the 'group'.

There's been a few troublemakers every year, when we are alerted to them we have dealt with the situation swiftly, sometimes a bit too fast (haven't had all the facts together) but this has now been addressed.

Remember Kiwiburn pays me to take on the role of HoS and as such participants should feel like they are causing anyone any extra work by reporting these idiots.

Paul

Paul Chaffe: Emergency Management / Principal Rural Fire Officer

Horizons Regional Council | 24 hr freephone 0508 800 800 | www.horizons.govt.nz

[Pete Wyatt]

Isa - your coments have reminded me there were some comments I heard from ladies about your creeper cards, may I suggest a review, one lady who handed one out found it triggered the guy to over react, another lady told me that if she was a bloke and got one of those cards she would probably just deck them.

[Wendy]

Yeah - men who creep are usually also entitled brats who don't react well to being called out.  No surprises there.

[Oliver Macro]

I'd be curious to hear if there were any incidences of a given card yielding a more positive response.

[Isa Ritchie]

As Wendy said, calling people out regarding sexual assault or harassment is not genererally something that elicits a positive response (nor should it have to be).

[Oliver Macro]

No, not generally. What i'm wondering is whether anyone responded along the lines of 'oh, shit, I've done something wrong' and gained some self-awareness from it and apologised? Something to that extent, I guess. 

[Hana Tuwhare]

I would agree with Ben's sentiments that yes, this is alarming, and unfortunately many women know this already. I would also agree with Isa's sentiment that this is an international problem at most events/everyday life for some women. But because our event promotes radical self-expression, this sorta manifests in creepy behaviour. 

By proactively showing avenues to make complaints that will be taken seriously, and something can be done about them (if wanted), people will more likely report these. And for more of this 'night club style' harassment, some really proactive education and engagement with the community will go a long way in changing our culture - i.e. people really understanding what constitutes as creepy behaviour and each of us being accountable for watching out for each other and calling people out when they see it happen. Sometimes people don't know they are being creepy, they think they are being fun. 

An update about the policy draft: I am pretty overwhelmed with the feedback/perspectives/ideas/projects that are being thrown around (both on women's FB group and personal messages). These are VERY helpful, but it's going to take me some time to consolidate all of this info and understand how it all fits in to the different layers (ExCom, Rangers, Medics, greeters, community spaces) of Kiwiburn... Phew! Anyway, to kind of try and sum up how complex this process is, I drew a diagram of all relevant/interested parties in creating this culture change. I think the policy that is being drafted will underpin all of these parties and help us all get on the same page so the message and support are consistent. 

[Wendy]

You are doing amazing work Hana, thank you so much!

[Hana Tuwhare]

To explain that last paragraph a bit better: by researching what is needed for this policy draft, I was alerted to the fact that we actually need a huge consent culture change within our community (we have for ages). The message I am getting is that the community is up for this (interest from all genders), and I think we have the resources to make this happen. I'm feeling pretty passionate about driving this forward as much as possible now (oops, thought I was just writing a policy).

While the topic is complex and heavy, the response from the community is a positive thing! :-)

[Rainbow Ronan]

i really like the creeper cards, i think they're a simple way of getting a message across, and can just be handed out and then you walk away. i think it would be sad to get rid of these simply because people might over react. and even if they do, that is still their problem that they need to deal with. maybe when gate are handing out the program we can also have a leaflet outlining in bold letters that creeping and harassing people is not acceptable, and to outline exactly how to get help if you are in a situation you are uncomfortable with and how to make a complaint if need be and that we certainly don't mind the extra work if it means weeding these people out of our community

Lumos - i hope you pointed out to your friend that just thumping someone is no way to respond to any sort of situation at kiwiburn

Hana - thanks so much for doing all this, it all looks awesome. keep up the good work :)

[Hana Tuwhare]

Ronan, I reckon non-creeper resources could be handed out at greeters! And this non-creeper behaviour can be reinforced by greeters greeting in a consensual way. For example, "Hey, welcome to KB! Would you like a hug, hand-shake, high-five, or maybe just an event guide? Great, did you see how we asked you for consent before initiating contact? We're really promoting that this year etc..." But hopefully less condescending...

There has also been some expression of interest from fellas who are keen on creating print resources an online presence around consent. So perhaps whatever they create could be useful for greeters. 

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[Nan]

that sounds awesome. greeters has been a sore point for me since my first kiwiburn, and i could never understand how pressuring people into a spanking was a good way to start a festival, but it seems to have been the way its always been so i didn't say anything, just avoided them altogether
but yes i think handing out info regarding consent and a clear complaints procedure is a good idea

[ben curran]

Some of the most satisfying moments I have had at Kiwiburn have been in a crew vehicle, sailing past greeter whilst someone is running out to spank you with a paddle and looking all forlorn because you're just driving on past. 

Isa - one concurs that it's a problem everywhere. It's just that those of us who are lucky enough to almost never see it (i.e. the likes of me) need to to occasionally (sometimes continually) remind ourselves that it's a problem, even in the places where we don't think it is should be a problem. 

One wonders if there's anything we can do to combat the creeping etc on the paddock. Ask the clubbing type places if they could have a safe space/person floating around at all times? Put some call buttons in for the rangers around various places on site (a lot of work probably)?  

Anyone responding to the receipt of a creeper card with physical violence, is, I think, asking for an eviction. 

[Nan]

speaking from a personal point of the view, doing the quiz before buying tickets has always annoyed me (all the one time i've done it) and have been wondering if this instead would be a good place to have statements about consent and what moops is. or have simple multiple choice questions with only one answer.

When someone tells you no it means?
a. No
b. No
c. No
d. No

or something of the like. thoughts for next year perhaps

[Nicola]

It always asks me my paddock name, which I don't have. Boo.

Hana - I have the consent stuff gate/greeters at the 06 Nevada burn handed out. Will scan as a possible resource.

[Hana Tuwhare]

Here is a radical idea... The 11th Principle: Consent.

There is a whole website dedicated to it, created by other regionals who were trying to figure out ways to address consent issues within their own communities. 

Check it out - http://www.11thprincipleconsent.org/vision-history/

--

[Nan]

YES! i was reading this earlier today and thought it was a brilliant idea

[Hana Tuwhare]

I just went back to an ExCom thread (titles 'the eleventh principle - consent) in 2014 that addressed this idea. It didn't seem like the conversation came to a clear end. It seemed like people thought consent was important, but that it didn't need it's own principle. It was suggested that consent came under 'civic responsibility'.

From a marketing/education perspective, I reckon creating a new principle could provide a platform that would get a lot of people thinking more seriously about consent. 

The attitude taken of people promoting the consent culture from that website is "lighthearted yet respectful manner appropriate for the burn community". I'm pretty in to it and fail to see a downside of adopting it really. I'm curious what others think. 

[Nan]

i personally am more then happy to add an 11th principle. having a discussion about the 10 principles is something i would like to have, but better to leave it till next year i suppose

[Isa Ritchie]

I get really creeped out by 'consent' as a principle. As a friend of mine said recently: consent is the new coercion. Having consent as a principle could imply that consenting is mandatory rather than a choice. I think the real principle is respecting people's boundaries.

[Pete Wyatt]

over the years I have talked to many other burners around the world about what are their thoughts on an 11th principal and there have been a few options suggested but all the people I talked to (including BM reps and BM officers) were happy for a regional group to pick their own 11th, several have already done so

In the past we tended to consider the Consent was an accepted part of community behavior but I believe we are seeing that for whatever reason more of our participants need it to be clearer and having it as the 11th principal would be fine by me

I am happy with the other 10 and unless we no longer wish to be an official BM regional there is not much we can change on the other 10 principals as they are a part of the requirements of Burningman

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 8:36 PM, Nan <buckfast...@gmail.com> wrote:

i personally am more then happy to add an 11th principle. having a discussion about the 10 principles is something i would like to have, but better to leave it till next year i suppose

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[Hana Tuwhare]

Isa, I don't quite understand the 'consent is the new coercion' aspect. Do you mind explaining it a bit more? Wouldn't consent being a mandatory thing be a good thing?

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[Oliver Macro]

Also curious to hear more of what you mean, Isa.

Discussion on the ten principles is one that I, like Ronan, am interested in having. To the best of my knowledge, the principles of BM aren't quite as concrete as they seem to be often viewed as. Kinda curious to have some open discussion on that at the Summit next year.

[Isa Ritchie]

Eg: Welcome to my party. To come here you have to consent. That is the rule. See, consent is sexy. This means you have to agree to everything whether you really want to or not. That is a principle we follow here.

Or imagine a really sleazy person saying 'hey baby, consent is the 11th principle...'

I know what is meant by consent and the connotations people want to give it in this context but it is still weird. 'Seeking consent' should be mandatory, as well as respecting people's boundaries. Consenting itself is not a principle.

[Hana Tuwhare]

Hmm I think I know what you mean. Like, people may feel more pressure to consent rather than empowered to exercise their consent?

Do you think that interpretation of consent could be mitigated in the way that we promote it? 

What about something more like - 'The 11th Principle: Respecting Boundaries' would be more appropriate? And perhaps more encompassing (rather than the more sexual connotation of consent, in incorporates non-sexual consent things like hugging). 

[Nan]

as with most things from america i want to tinker and adapt them to language we find more appropriate and relevant to our little island. i didn't mean to imply that i want the 11th principle to simply be consent, but i am more then happy at the idea of adding in an 11th principle based on the idea of consent. i feel like this is the biggest negative issue regarding our festival, and its something we will never truly understand the scale of as so many people to not report cases of inappropriate behaviour. with that in mind i don't see the harm in adding a new principle solely based on this idea. it may well only be a temporary principle, but i feel like over all it would be a good idea to help us spare head our efforts to stamp out as much of this out of our community as we can. at the very least i think this is something we should bring back to the table for more discussion and see what better wording we can come up with

[Wendy]

I feel like this may not need to be an official principle, because it's happening anyway as a movement from within the community, that I fully support.

On 18 October 2016 at 11:58, Nan <buckfast...@gmail.com> wrote:

as with most things from america i want to tinker and adapt them to language we find more appropriate and relevant to our little island. i didn't mean to imply that i want the 11th principle to simply be consent, but i am more then happy at the idea of adding in an 11th principle based on the idea of consent. i feel like this is the biggest negative issue regarding our festival, and its something we will never truly understand the scale of as so many people to not report cases of inappropriate behaviour. with that in mind i don't see the harm in adding a new principle solely based on this idea. it may well only be a temporary principle, but i feel like over all it would be a good idea to help us spare head our efforts to stamp out as much of this out of our community as we can. at the very least i think this is something we should bring back to the table for more discussion and see what better wording we can come up with

[Shelley Watson]

I fully agree with you wendy.

[Oliver Macro]

Mmm, also in agreement to that point. 

--

[Brendan]

My understanding is that we can't simply add an 11th principle while still being an official regional burn. Some festivals have an 11th and describe themselves as "inspired by" Burning Man rather than an official regional.

That said, to address Isa's concern I think that it could be re-worded "Respect" (or something similar).

I think that Respect / Consent would make a nice "Principle 0" as it's underlying everything else. FWIW my personal preference for an 11th would be "Gratitude" (currently sort of covered under "Gifting").

[Isa Ritchie]

Radical respect?

--

[Rainbow Ronan]

i quite like radical respect. chatting to a friend last night and they made a good point. using hugging as an example, with the idea of consent it is up to me to make it clear that i don't want a hug. which in a community like kiwiburn can be quite alienating, as if there is something wrong with me for not watching other people touching me. where as i feel respect puts it back on the person trying to hug me, they need to respect my boundaries and ask first if i want them to put their arms around me. also radical respect can mean lot of things. respect my space. respect my camp site. respect my beer stash. respect my art. respect my no

[Wendy]

​

[Rainbow Ronan]

perfect

[Pete Wyatt]

to be an official Regional burn you have to have the 10 principals, they are pretty open about allowing the local communities to adopt an 11th one, so we can do it if we want to

I like 'radical respect' because it can apply to everything I do on the paddock, including respect of people, respect of the farm and the fences etc, respect of the river, respect of that art piece = Don't vandalise it etc etc

[Hana Tuwhare]

I'm pretty happy with not adopting an 'official' 11th principle. It seems like an 11th principle around consent sparked more conversation about what they would prefer an 11th principle to be, which detracted from consent conversations.. so that wasn't really helpful. I have been finding some really great resources from other regionals that we can adapt for KB though!

I did initially like the creeper cards. But now I'm not so sure they are productive in allowing opportunities for people to change their behaviour. It just makes them defensive and feel shamed? In saying that, sometimes someone just needs to be called out! I've just started a new group for people to start creating resources around consent. One of the things will be about how to respond if 'someone calls you out' and also 'how to call someone out'.

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[Oliver Macro]

Must say Hana, I'm tremendously impressed with the initiative you're continuing to demonstrate in this area.

A discussion I had with my present hosts last night brought up an interesting improvement to the 'consent is sexy' phrase, which as we've discussed here is a unfortunately somewhat of a loaded phrase and may be uncomfortably pressuring.

The amendment they suggested to was to add 'seeking' in there, so as to state that 'seeking consent is sexy.'

What are peoples thoughts on that? It seems an improvement but I wonder by what margin?

Hana Tuwhare wrote:

I'm pretty happy with not adopting an 'official' 11th principle. It
seems like an 11th principle around consent sparked more conversation
about what they would prefer an 11th principle to be, which detracted
from consent conversations.. so that wasn't really helpful. I have
been finding some really great resources from other regionals that we
can adapt for KB though!

I did initially like the creeper cards. But now I'm not so sure they
are productive in allowing opportunities for people to change their
behaviour. It just makes them defensive and feel shamed? In saying
that, sometimes someone just needs to be called out! I've just started
a new group for people to start creating resources around consent. One
of the things will be about how to respond if 'someone calls you out'
and also 'how to call someone out'.

On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Oliver Macro
<oliver....@gmail.com <mailto:oliver....@gmail.com>> wrote:

    Mmm, also in agreement to that point.

    On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 3:26 PM, Shelley Watson

    <she...@design.gen.nz <mailto:she...@design.gen.nz>> wrote:


        I fully agree with you wendy.

        On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 at 12:04:10 PM UTC+13, Dr Windy
        wrote:

            I feel like this may not need to be an official principle,
            because it's happening anyway as a movement from within
            the community, that I fully support.

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[Wendy]

I would prefer to decouple the notion of consent from the notion of sex if it's all the same to you.

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[Oliver Macro]

I do agree that ultimately that would be preferable.

Wendy

26 October 2016 3:52 pm via Postbox

I would prefer to decouple the notion of consent from the notion of sex if it's all the same to you.

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Hana Tuwhare

26 October 2016 3:35 pm via Postbox

I'm pretty happy with not adopting an 'official' 11th principle. It seems like an 11th principle around consent sparked more conversation about what they would prefer an 11th principle to be, which detracted from consent conversations.. so that wasn't really helpful. I have been finding some really great resources from other regionals that we can adapt for KB though!

I did initially like the creeper cards. But now I'm not so sure they are productive in allowing opportunities for people to change their behaviour. It just makes them defensive and feel shamed? In saying that, sometimes someone just needs to be called out! I've just started a new group for people to start creating resources around consent. One of the things will be about how to respond if 'someone calls you out' and also 'how to call someone out'.

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Oliver Macro

19 October 2016 3:04 pm via Postbox

Mmm, also in agreement to that point. 

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[Hana Tuwhare]

"I would prefer to decouple the notion of consent from the notion of sex if it's all the same to you."

Definitely agree. The resources we are discussing are moving away from things like "consent is sexy". Also moving away from shaming men for being creepy and adopting more of a 'hey, that's not appropriate, this is how you can be better'. More of this uniting us a team thing rather than being all "fuck you creeps!"??? Something like that anyway. 

Anyway, I'm still kinda working on this sexual harassment policy. I might send the Draft through in the next few days for peeps to have a look. From that point I will probably continue to keep working on consent stuff, but more as a community driven thing rather than pestering you guys all the time :-)

On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Oliver Macro <oliver....@gmail.com> wrote:

I do agree that ultimately that would be preferable.

Wendy

26 October 2016 3:52 pm via Postbox

I would prefer to decouple the notion of consent from the notion of sex if it's all the same to you.

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Hana Tuwhare

26 October 2016 3:35 pm via Postbox

I'm pretty happy with not adopting an 'official' 11th principle. It seems like an 11th principle around consent sparked more conversation about what they would prefer an 11th principle to be, which detracted from consent conversations.. so that wasn't really helpful. I have been finding some really great resources from other regionals that we can adapt for KB though!

I did initially like the creeper cards. But now I'm not so sure they are productive in allowing opportunities for people to change their behaviour. It just makes them defensive and feel shamed? In saying that, sometimes someone just needs to be called out! I've just started a new group for people to start creating resources around consent. One of the things will be about how to respond if 'someone calls you out' and also 'how to call someone out'.

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Oliver Macro

19 October 2016 3:04 pm via Postbox

Mmm, also in agreement to that point. 

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[Isa Ritchie]

You're awesome, Hana.

[Hana Tuwhare]

YOU ARE ALL AWESOME

[Rainbow Ronan]

thanks Hana. pester away

[Wendy]

It's a singularity of awesome!

Consent is awesome!

On 26 October 2016 at 16:23, Rainbow Ronan <buckfast...@gmail.com> wrote:

thanks Hana. pester away

[Hana Tuwhare]

May as well share the policy now actually. I'm at the point where I need more input on processes if someone does sexually harass/assault someone else. 

And then a bit more tidy up after there has been some input. Feel free edit the google doc (go to right hand corner, select drop down box and select "suggesting" - this will track changes). 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bbFl2hO5UbC8nnfFfhLDm7a_U6bYtAxsZus_tKzGHCo/edit?usp=sharing

[Pete Wyatt]

I used to like the term 'consent is sexy' but I have come to understand not everybody likes the use of the word 'sexy' so I have changed my stance.

I still don't like the 'creeper cards', they also have a potential moop factor.

I don't believe there is a need for an 'official' 11 principal, I think is would work well as just an unofficial thing and I still like the one of 'Radical Respect'

I am battling my way thru the policy report, have not seen anything I disagree with yet

[Rainbow Ronan]

had a good read through there an like what you have so far. the overall tone feels positive, and i feel encourages good behaviour for the benefit of all
also like that mention about lowering morale, as even the littlest off the cuff remark can ruin a person's mood

[Wendy]

Heya,

Finally had a chance to look at this today.  It's looking really good!  I've added a few comments here and there, mostly wrt practicality and logistics, and may have more to add in a few days.

Brilliant work, thank you so much.