Fwd: Kiwiburn 2014 - Liability

[Kathy Guidi]

Hi everyone,
Okay, we've received a quote from the Australian broker, H2 Insurance Solutions, who also does the insurance for Burning Seed.

Premium amount for coverage from Nov 20, 2013 - Jan 27, 2014 is $2429 AUD =  $2700 NZD.

Coverage AUD $5mm in public & products liability  (I am not clear if this encompasses statutory liability)

There's a lot of verbiage in the contract that I'm not 100% clear on and will want to run this by someone professional who knows about insurance contracts.  I'm not sure who this would be -- I am going to ask the attorney who is on my Wainui Residents committee if he'd take a look at it.  If anyone has other suggestions, sing out.

I also want to go back to H2 Solutions and have a chat with him as I will have several questions...

* Does the policy cover us for fireworks?

* Does the policy cover us for statutory liability?

* Please explain the participation exclusion that is on the quote

I will try to get in touch with Nick tomorrow.   Meanwhile, if some other eyeballs feel like looking over the first two attached documents (Quote and Public & Products Liablity info) and let me know if other questions come to mind, that would be great.

I have also sent a note to Jodi in Melbourne as I am interested to see Burning Seeds' policy and how much their insurance cost them (mainly as a reference point).

I have sent an email to Sharleen James, our NZ insurance broker, to try one more time to see if she can help us.

Once we are clear on the policy coverage, I believe Bruce will want to run it by Mark & Andrea to make sure they are happy with the coverage.

Thanks,
Kathy

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: H2 Insurance Solutions <insu...@h2is.com.au>
Date: Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 12:55 PM
Subject: RE: Kiwiburn 2014 - Liability
To: Kathy Guidi <kag...@gmail.com>
Cc: "Ashleigh Easton (easto...@gmail.com)" <easto...@gmail.com>

Good morning Kathy,

 

Please find attached our quotation for Liability insurance for Kiwiburn 2014. Please check the attached document to ensure all details are correct and the cover provided meets your requirements. If any amendments are required, please let me know.

 

You may note that there are some differences with the way the cover is described compared with your previous NZI policy and this has to do with the different way in which liability insurance is written in Australia compared with New Zealand (i.e. no mentioned of forest and rural fires cover) however my understanding is that although these specific limits are not mentioned in the Australian liability policy, these perils are not excluded in the policy wording.

 

The key understanding with Liability insurance is that cover is provided only for claims made against Kiwiburn arising from your negligence.  i.e. if in the course of running Kiwiburn you cause damage to property owned by a third party and that damage is deemed to have occurred due to your negligence, then such claims should be covered by this policy (in accordance with the policy wording and exclusions). If the damage is not caused by your negligence or is caused by the negligence or another party, then the claim would be against that party instead, though your Insurer will defend the claim on your behalf if Kiwiburn is dragged in on the legal action.

 

Under the Financial Services Act we are required to provide you with a Product Disclosure Statement (PDS) for each policy. Please find this attached. The PDS/Policy Wording is issued by the Insurer and provides full details of the product(s) insured.   We ask that you review this document carefully to ensure the cover provided meets your requirements.

We are also required to provide you with a Financial Services Guide (FSG) which outlines how we will act in regards to financial matters. Please find this attached also.

 

General Advice Warning:  The information provided is to be regarded as general advice. Whilst we may have collected risk information, your personal objectives, needs or financial situations were not taken into account when preparing this information. We recommend that you consider the suitability of this general advice, in respect of your objectives, financial situation and needs before acting on it. Please consider the relevant PDS before making any decision to purchase this financial product.

 

To proceed with cover and receive a formal offer of insurance confirming all details and the quoted premium, please advise by return email that you wish to proceed. The insurers also require a signed proposal form confirming that all the information provided in your original quote request is correct. Please review this proposal form prior to signing and if any amendments are required please write them on the form and initial beside the changes.

 

We thank you for the opportunity to provide this quotation and would welcome any queries that you may have.

Kind Regards,

Nicholas Jobling

Authorised Rep No: 410377

 

P: 07 3123 6919    F: 07 3289 6910    E: insu...@h2is.com.au    W: www.h2is.com.au

 

 

Aisle Six Pty Ltd T/As H2 Insurance Solutions is a Corporate Authorised Representative of Insurance Advisernet Australia Pty Ltd. AR No. 266613. AFSL No. 240549.

 

 

 

 

 

[Karl Matthews]

I have attempted to look over this but I'm struggling to understand most of it.

Looks like it's 1k more than last year by it is a solution to a massive headache, so I would be more than happy to take it up if it stand up to lawyer scrutiny.

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[Bruce Scanlon]

I agree with what I think Karl is saying that our options are limited and we have to take what we can get.

>Once we are clear on the policy coverage, I believe Bruce will want to run it by Mark & Andrea to make sure they are happy with the coverage.

My thoughts on this-- the owners are concerned about making sure we have insurance coverage.  If we run it by them on the one hand good because we have covered our ass.  On the other hand if they want changes to the coverage that are difficult or expensive for us to secure then bad.  I would also consider it a viable option, if we feel like the insurance does what is required in our contract with them,  to skip offering them the chance to have a look before we get it.

That's my view of the options here.

[Pete Wyatt]

I think that we don't need to confuse things with Mark & Andrea, as long as we have insurance

[Hippie Tim]

Hmm, insurance contracts are never easy to read for laypeople.Just reading it and pointing out things I see, doesn't mean that any of these are actually valid problems and I tend to ere of the side of paranoid when it comes to this stuff.

 

In the quote:

PARTICIPATION EXCLUSION (ORGANISERS)

This insurance does not apply to liability for claims in respect of Personal Injury or Property Damage to any person(s) or their property arising out of the actual participation by such person(s) in any performance, sport, game, contest or display involving athletic, acrobatic, military or equestrian skill or the use of firearms, missiles of any kind, explosives or  combustibles; or (ii) to property of any person(s) arising our of the use of any mechanical amusement device.

This is kind of weird and I don't know what it means as it is latter contradicted in the policy statement. Would be good to work out what this means.

In the policy:

Legal Jurisdiction

Personal Injury or Property Damage or Advertising Liability where the action is brought against You in any country outside Australia or New Zealand.

So this means we won't be covered for what Burning Man is worried about, them getting sued in America because they sanction the event, even if they are listed as an insured party.

In our disclosure:

19) Will you require cover for liability claims arising from loss or damage to other people’s property whilst in your care, custody or control? YES X NO

Doesn't this mean that we wouldn't be covered for claims around the use of Marks land? Do we have to disclose Marks land as other property that is in our care?

In question 33 under fireworks we will need to disclose that we will be using fireworks if we are and who the Dangerous Goods controllers are.

37) Is there any temporary staging or seating structures being used? YES X NO

I would say that there is. It then mentions that contractors should have their own liability insurance.

Under the definition in our policy is defines:

2.20 You/Your means each of the following to the extent set forth below:

2.20.1 the Insured named in the Schedule; 

 

2.20.2 all subsidiary companies (present and future) of the named Insured whose places of incorporation 

are within Australia and New Zealand (including their Mandated Territories and Protectorates); 

2.20.3 any director, executive officer, Employee, partner or shareholder of the Insured or a company 

2.20.4 any principal in respect of the liability of such principal arising out of the performance by the 

2.20.5 the officers, committee and members of the Insured’s canteen, social, sports, first aid/medical, fire designated in paragraph 2.20.2 but only while acting within the scope of their duties in such capacity; 

Insured or by a company designated in paragraph 2.20.2 of any contract or agreement for the performance of work for such principal and only to the extent required by such contract or agreement. But subject always to the terms, conditions, conditions, exclusions and Limit of 

Liability provided in this Policy; 

fighting and welfare organisations formed with the consent of the Insured (other than an insured designated in paragraph 2.20.4) in respect of claims arising from duties connected with activities of any such club or organisation.

2.20.6 any work experience Employees or volunteers whilst engaged in activities for You or on Your behalf

My reading of this would mean that anyone that is a volunteer for us is covered by the policy and I am wondering how far this extends. I'm also wondering if our liability covers all the art installations, theme camps etc. I think it would be good to have all of our volunteers sign a volunteer contract so that we have a signed record in case anything does happen and we have no proof that someone was volunteering for us. I have a template we used for the Temple for Christchurch that we can use for this.

Food for thought :)

[fireyemz]

Ive been in touch with Martin (h&s guy) who knows quite a bit about insurance, is it ok to forward all this  to him?

Sent from Samsung Mobile

[Kathy Guidi]

On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 11:37 PM, fireyemz <fire...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ive been in touch with Martin (h&s guy) who knows quite a bit about insurance, is it ok to forward all this  to him?

Hi Ems,

That's great.  I'd prefer you do an email intro of him to me and then I can discuss with him.   I met him last year -- not sure if he remembers me.

Thanks,

Kathy

[Kathy Guidi]

Hey Tim,

Thanks for reading through.   Maybe you and I can have a chat about some of the things you raise -- call you on Tuesday eve when I'm back in town and without a bunch of people around me!

-Kathy

[fireyemz]

Yes will do Kathy :-)

Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: Kathy Guidi <kag...@gmail.com>
Date: 25/11/2013 04:45 (GMT+12:00)
To: kiwiburnexcom <kiwiburn...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Kiwiburn 2014 - Liability

On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 11:37 PM, fireyemz <fire...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ive been in touch with Martin (h&s guy) who knows quite a bit about insurance, is it ok to forward all this  to him?

Hi Ems,

That's great.  I'd prefer you do an email intro of him to me and then I can discuss with him.   I met him last year -- not sure if he remembers me.

Thanks,

Kathy

 

Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: Hippie Tim <fuzzy...@gmail.com>
Date: 24/11/2013 15:32 (GMT+12:00)
To: kiwiburnexcom <kiwiburn...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Kiwiburn 2014 - Liability

[Kathy Guidi]

Hey gang,
First pass at receiving answers to some of our questions.  I don't have time to speak with him today; will do so tomorrow.

Nick Leland -- see response to question 1 regarding pyrotechnics.   I don't suppose you have your own insurance or have access to insurance through your dad?

-Kathy

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 3:34 PM, H2 Insurance Solutions <insu...@h2is.com.au> wrote:

Hi Kathy,

 

Thanks for your email, I agree it would be good to have a chat about the insurance rather than going back and forth a bunch of times by email. I can give you a call this afternoon if you like?

I’m out of the office today from 12:50 pm (3:50pm in NZ) to around 2pm (5pm NZ) but am free before and after that. Otherwise, I’ll be available tomorrow from 8:30am (11:30am NZ) onwards.

 

Regarding the points in your email:

 

1.       The policy doesn’t specifically exclude fireworks/pyrotechnics but I would assume that in NZ, as in Australia, only a licensed pyro-technician is allowed to operate fireworks, in which case the Contractor/Subcontractor endorsement on the policy would apply – i.e. the pyro contractor must have their own liability insurance.

 

With respect to the burning of the man effigy. This is not excluded by the policy, but note the “Reasonable Precautions” condition (section 4.10 under “Conditions” on page 6 of the policy wording (attached). This condition compels you to take all reasonable precautions to prevent personal injury and property damage. With respect to burning a large effigy, I expect it would be considered “reasonable” to ensure that you have all the required fire safety equipment on hand to prevent injury or damage resulting from the burn. In your case, you have advised that a certified pyro-technician is on hand to manage the burn so as long as this contractor has their own insurance then I believe you are complying with the policy requirements.

 

2.       The policy does not include Statutory Liability. My apologies for overlooking this. I will see if this can be added to this policy. Can you please forward a copy of your current/previous policy wording so that I can ensure the cover provided is equivalent as I’m not 100% sure if Statutory Liability insurance in Australia and NZ are the same type of cover.

 

3.       The participation exclusion is intended to exclude injury to participants in sports, games, contests, performances, etc. It is not meant to exclude injury to anyone who is “participating” in Kiwiburn. i.e. if someone suffers an injury at Kiwiburn resulting from one of your structures or effigy collapsing, then that should be covered by the policy. What the insurer is trying to exclude is injury arising from people participating in known risky activities such as playing sport, participating in a dancing performance, etc.

 

Basically, if you go to a festival, you expect that you will be safe whilst walking around the site, or whilst standing in front of a stage, but if you willingly participate in a game of football or fire-twirling then you do so fully accepting that participation in such activities carries some inherent risk. Therefore, participants in such activities have to take some responsibility for their own actions. If you wish to discuss this further, please let me know.

 

4.       No problem, we can note Black Rock City LLC on your insurance as an Interested Party. We do the same for Burning Man Australia.

 

Await your reply.

Cheers,

Nic

 

From: Kathy Guidi [mailto:kag...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, 25 November 2013 2:21 AM

To: H2 Insurance Solutions
Cc: Ashleigh Easton

Subject: Re: Kiwiburn 2014 - Liability

 

Hi Nic,

Thanks for sending through all the information!   I've read through the documents and currently have several members of our committee also reading through it.   Before we sign and pay for the policy, we definitely have a few questions for you -- 

1).  Does this policy allow for us to use fireworks?   (I had left this box 'blank' on the questionnaire as I wanted to find out the difference in premium depending on whether we were allowed fireworks).   The only 'fireworks' that Kiwiburn would possibly use is during the burning of our 'man effigy' -- we have a certified pyrotechnics person who is capable of managing such activity.   This is not a *definite* thing we would do, hence our desire to know what our options are.  [Am curious if Burning Seed's policy allowed for this?]

2)  Does this policy cover statutory liability? This is something we've had in the past but I dont see it in this policy.

3)  I am not quite clear on the Participation Exclusion that is written on the policy -- perhaps easiest for me to have a chat with you on the phone?

4).  The Burning Man organisation in the United States has asked us to name them as a co-insured.  Is this possible?  Again, Burning Seed would have also asked about this and am wondering what you did for them.

Let me know when is generally a good time to ring you so we can have a general chat about the quote and coverage.

Cheers,
Kathy

 

[Hippie Tim]

The key thing here to mention is that we would not be contracting anyone to do the fireworks. The person would be a volunteer of Kiwiburn Inc and therefore covered by the policy. The only contractors we have are the fire service and toilets I believe?

[Pete Wyatt]

would the medics be contractors ?

[Hippie Tim]

Yep them too, forgot about them.

[bex Wil]

this is looking promising....

[Bruce Scanlon]

>would the medics be contractors ?

i expect that they will have their own insurance.