Re: APV: Re: gay parents

[Sara...@aol.com]

In a message dated 9/7/2004 9:41:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Wkm...@aol.com writes:

think blatantly bragging on it is dangerous to those coming up later.  

While I know I wouldn't want to queer anyone's adoption chances, having to keep one's adoption and family story a secret seems quite drastic and, I think, ultimately bad for any child.  I would also say that anyone speaking of their family would not be "blatantly bragging..."  The world probably won't change unless we all speak up...

 

Just my thoughts,

Sarah

Maya's mama, dob 5-9-01 Ha Noi, G&R 11/20/01

[Lee arl_va]

In my research about Vietnamese adoptions prior to the shutdown (obviously
did not pursue that path for now because of the shutdown), there was nothing
about these types of affidavits for Vietnam adoptions (China is a different
story).

I will say how impressed I am that this discussion can occur so civilly on
this list. I'm on other int'l adoption lists where this whole topic is
totally taboo and leads to attacks on the person posting etc etc

Lee


>From: "MaureenK" <vie...@comcast.net>
>Reply-To: a...@googlegroups.com
>To: <a...@googlegroups.com>
>Subject: APV: Re: gay parents
>Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:32:24 -0500
>
>HI Indigo,
>I know you are just passing on this email but I just have to raise a
>concern about this. As we know, in Vietnam and in China (as far as I know)
>policy (and perhaps law) prevents gay couples from adopting. While I was in
>the waiting process, there was a big uproar in VN when a national US
>magazine published an interview/story about a US physician who adopted her
>son from VN... the article referred to the woman and her Lesbian partner.
>The result was a near cessation of single parent adoptions in VN.
>
>Since then VN adoptive parent(s) had to sign an "affadavit of
>herterosexuality" in order to adopt. So... if a gay couple or gay person
>were to publically talk about having adopted from VN, I would just worry
>about the ramifications on current negotiations and ongoing progress of the
>MOU.
>
>I am torn to say that, because I abhor the idea of silencing anyone or
>"hiding" someone's identity... and yet... the laws or at least the policy
>in Vietnam (and China AFAIK) has been adoptive parents must be
>heterosexual. I just remember feeling very upset that the woman featured in
>the article that nearly shut down single parent adoptions in VN choose to
>go public AFTER she already had her child home, thereby jeopardizing future
>adoptions, but not her own.
>
>Hate to think I am of the "don't ask/don't tell" schoo but when it comes to
>international adoptions.. I'd have to say it's hard to make a case for why
>publicity would help improve relations or the chances of opening up
>adoptions to non-heterosexual couples.
>
>best
>maureen in chicago
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Indigo Williams Willing
> To: a...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 7:52 PM
> Subject: APV: gay parents
>
>
> There is a newspaper wanting to do a story on the above. See below.
> ______________________________
> Indigo Williams Willing (Thuy Thi Diep Huynh)
> Founder - Adopted Vietnamese International
> www.adoptedvietnamese.org
>
>
> ______________________________
> Reply to: anon-4...@craigslist.org
> Date: 2004-09-02, 3:08PM PDT
>
>
>
> I would like to write a feature

[Karen...@aol.com]

In a message dated 9/8/2004 6:02:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Sara...@aol.com writes:

think blatantly bragging on it is dangerous to those coming up later.  

You know, it's really easy for those who are in traditional, state sanctioned relationships to label talking about one's life "blatantly bragging". Please consider how you would feel if you were not able to discuss your husband or wife lest your adoption be jeopardized.

 

Karen L. March, M.D.
Milan Family Practice
734-439-2429

[Karen...@aol.com]

In a message dated 9/8/2004 5:58:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, vie...@comcast.net writes:

I just remember feeling very upset that the woman featured in the article that nearly shut down single parent adoptions in VN choose to go public AFTER she already had her child home, thereby jeopardizing future adoptions, but not her own.

I've gotta tell you that I think you're being unfair. The woman in question was a highly respected physician who had donated a ton of time over many years to international adoption.

[MaureenK]

Hi Lee,
I know these documents were required because I signed one, as did everyone
else that had traveled at the same time I did, inJuly 2001.

best
maureen in chicago
mom to Lia, 3.5 from Hanoi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee arl_va" <lee_...@hotmail.com>
To: <a...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 7:35 AM
Subject: APV: Re: gay parents


>

[MaureenK]

You are completely right.  This person did and continues to do a tremendous service.  I do not question that.

 

And... the truth is someone with many years experience in international adoption must have known that a decision to publically discuss breaking the laws of a sending country could have serious ramifications. Perhaps that was considered and the decision was made that it was important to take a stand. And... as I mentioned... the stand was taken when the personal risk of adoption disruption did not appear to be  present. 

 

I was simply sharing my emotional reaction to the fear I felt that after being in process for many months and being *so* close to achieving my dream of becoming a mom... that could have been taken away.

 

a tough issue.... something that would be a great topic for an in person discussion sometime.

best,

maureen in chicago

Single mom to 3. 5year old from Hanoi

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Karen...@aol.com

To: a...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 11:43 AM

Subject: APV: Re: gay parents

[Kim Kennedy]

Does anyone know of a newer version of the law?

 

This is from 1994. http://www.novexcn..com/viet_adoption_law.html

 

I know I read a copy of VN Family Law over two years ago, but can’t find the page now.

 

Kim

Mom to three

 

 

[Hershey, Marjorie R.]

>>>In a message dated 9/8/2004 5:58:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
vie...@comcast.net writes:

I just remember feeling very upset that the woman featured in the article
that nearly shut down single parent adoptions in VN choose to go public AFTER
she already had her child home, thereby jeopardizing future adoptions, but not her own.<<<

>>>I've gotta tell you that I think you're being unfair. The woman in question
was a highly respected physician who had donated a ton of time over many
years to international adoption.
Karen L. March, M.D.<<<

Karen, with all due respect, the fact that Jane has done a lot for international adoption doesn't mean that this particular action was helpful or even justifiable. I do appreciate your point that the culture tends to judge gay relationships using different (and less fair) criteria than state-sanctioned ones. But I think the important point is that we all want to see Vietnamese adoptions reopened and that we'd like to protect the right to adopt for all good parents, and that there may be more appropriate venues for discussing the benefits of adoptions by gay couples -- for example, in trying to change laws in our own states and nation, over which we have at least some say in lobbying and at the polls. Best, Margie (mom)

[None]

I hope I'm doing this correctly as it is the first time I've posted
since the group moved to this forum.

I have to agree this is a very sensitive issue. I also had to sign one
of the affidavits for the adoption of my daughter from Vietnam in late
2002, just as I did for the adoptions I completed in China in 1996 and
1999.

International adoptions are a privilege extended by the countries who
participate. They can make any rules they see fit for the welfare of
their children. We as adoptive parents expect (demand) to be told the
truth about the process and about the children. These countries, in
return, expect us to tell the truth about ourselves, as they well
should. If they cannot trust that we are telling them the truth, they
are very much within their rights to restrict and/or stop the process.
I personally believe this very issue played a large role in the
restrictions placed on singles adopting from China in 2001.

Where does it end... How will parents who have been able to complete
adoptions by deceit, explain that to those children when they are old
enough to understand? How will those children make it through life
thinking it is okay to lie if it will get them something they really
want?

Life isn't fair. Never has been, never will be.
Heather
Mom to 3 (Changsha/Chenzhou/Hanoi)

[Lee arl_va]

The issues are getting confused here -- in the case of Vietnam, there is no
"law". The other factor that comes into play is that, legally speaking,
people are either "single" or "married". Thus, the same-sex couples I know
of and who have adopted have not misrepresented themselves - they are not
married (recent developments may change that in some states) and only one
person can adopt. Nor do most homestudies in the US even ask about sexual
orientation - so there is nothing to lie about there, either.

It's really necessary to keep the facts straight here (pardon the
expression!). I haven't seen on this list anyone advocating ignoring or
breaking Vietnamese laws - because there is no law on this particular issue.
China is a very different story...

Lee

>From: CWill...@aol.com
>Reply-To: a...@googlegroups.com
>To: a...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: APV: Re: gay parents

>Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 07:08:12 EDT
>
>In a message dated 9/8/04 10:30:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>vie...@comcast.net writes:
>
>
> > You are completely right. This person did and continues to do a
>tremendous
> > service. I do not question that.
> >
> > And... the truth is someone with many years experience in international

> > adoption must have known that a decision to publicly discuss breaking

>the laws of
> > a sending country could have serious ramifications. Perhaps that was
> > considered and the decision was made that it was important to take a
>stand. And...

> > as I mentioned ... the stand was taken when the personal risk of

>adoption
> > disruption did not appear to be present.
> >
> > I was simply sharing my emotional reaction to the fear I felt that after
> > being in process for many months and being *so* close to achieving my
>dream of
> > becoming a mom... that could have been taken away
> >
>

>I have to agree with the above. Otherwise, why not publicize your family
>and
>intent to adopt from Vietnam, before getting your child. Instead it
>appears
>they are trying to convince the country that their policies are wrong and
>they
>should change or accept the fact that people are going to ignore your silly
>rules anyway. And they do this even if it risks future adoptions. I am
>amazed
>on APC how often this topic has come up and people start admitting what
>they
>knowingly ommitted or lied about on homestudies, and I am not just talking
>homosexual couples either. It seems to be an attitude of, "I am owed, or
>have a
>right to, your orphaned children".
>
>I sincerely do not understand breaking a countries laws in order to adopt.
>Is it OK for us to say that a countries laws are unjust or unfair, then
>break
>the laws simply because we don't agree with them?
>
>We were weeks from being DTC with China and the laws were changed to
>exclude
>large families. It left only a few countries that would allow us to adopt
>an
>infant. We had already adopted five older children and wanted one infant
>in
>our lifetime. We felt it unfair to judge large families this way but we
>100%
>respected China's right to determine what THEY felt were ideal families for
>their children. We moved to Vietnam's program but also considered Guat.
>We had
>one agency actually offer to "word" our homestudy in such a way that a
>country, not China or Vietnam, would think we only had two children instead
>of five
>and thus qualify for one of their infants. We declined.
>
>I know it is very, very hard for homosexuals to find countries to adopt
>from,
>but they do exist. I am on several domestic facilitator boards and have
>seen quite a few published b-mom profiles stating that they prefer
>homosexual's
>for their child's a-parents. I think Brazil permits same sex couples and
>maybe
>Guatemala. Although I must admit I have researched large families but not
>homosexual couples.
>
>Instead it seems, whether true or not, that often times we a-parents feel
>we
>are 100% just in ignoring a countries rules because we are right and they
>are
>wrong. Instead of seeing adoption as a privilege, we see it as a right.
>And
>that leads right back to adoptive parents being "owed" a countries orphaned
>children.
>
>Brenda
>Blessed Mother of six
>DH Clyde
>DS Christian - adopted domestic, b 1991
>DS Jeremiah - adopted domestic, b 1992
>DD Toni - adopted domestic, b1995
>DS Cory - adopted domestic, b1995
>DS Matthew - adopted domestic, b1996
>DD Abby - Adopted Vietnam, b2002

[caro...@ou.edu]

> I sincerely do not understand breaking a countries laws in order
> to adopt. 
> Is it OK for us to say that a countries laws are unjust or unfair,
> then break
> the laws simply because we don't agree with them?

I would agree with you here. There has been the same problem in Cambodia with large families (large being defined as more than 2 children in your home full time or already have 2 Cambodian children) and some agencies and facilitators actually told families to lie on their homestudy.

> I know it is very, very hard for homosexuals to find countries to
> adopt from,
> but they do exist.  

Cambodia was one (still is for families from some countries but not currently for those from the USA, Canada, France, The Netherlands, Belgium and maybe a few other countries - the rest of us are out of luck as our governments closed it for us). Singles (you adopt as a single) need to be between 40-50 for an infant. They have allowed older singles to adopt a child who would have been an infant when you were between 40-50. The issue has been for some that some AGENCIES have not allowed adoptions for non-heterosexual couples/individuals. I know that I had helped some people adopt independently when the agency I used to work for (I no longer work for an agency) would not allow them to adopt becuase of their sexual orientation. Cambodia has allowed single men to adopt female children as well.

Carolyn

a-mom

[Hershey, Marjorie R.]

>>>Do you suggest that those lesbians or gay men hide their orientation from
everyone?....The problem is the bigotry and the prejudice -- whether it is here or in Vietnam or China or anywhere. It's a crime that children are dying in orphanages when there are a ton of individuals who might happen to be lesbian or gay who would make wonderful parents. Beware, other countries might decide, for example, that they will impose other requirements. If the requirement excluded you how would you feel?<<<

We were not able to adopt from several countries because we have too many children. We know people who were not able to adopt from Korea because they weigh too much. I was turned away from a domestic agency because I am the "wrong" religion. As is quite obvious, I didn't like that.

There is a long and honorable tradition of protesting unjust laws. But I believe that it involves putting oneself at risk, not putting others at risk. Protesting Vietnamese policies in a way that puts all adoptions at risk is not, in my view, justifiable. You are welcome to differ.

Margie Hershey (mom)

[Jill Melnick]

It was our experience that the orphanage director had his own set of
seemingly arbitrary requirements that weren't supported by Vietnamese law.
But if you wanted to adopt from his orphanage you had to meet his criteria.
I don't remember signing anything saying my husband and I "dig each other"
but maybe this heterosexual statement was only required of singles, and
maybe it was an orphanage requirement. Just to add another worm to the
can...
Jill Melnick
Carter's mom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee arl_va" <lee_...@hotmail.com>
To: <a...@googlegroups.com>

[CWill...@aol.com]

Lee,

What I meant about married was maybe that is why I was not asked to sign any papers about my sexuality.  They assumed the husband, mentioned throughout all my paperwork, answered the question clearly enough...  I was not trying to claim that homosexual couples file paperwork as married couples..  I always assumed it was as a single..... but admit I could be wrong.  I truly have not researched it at all.  Researching countries that work with large families is enough to keep me hopping.

In answer to Susan's question about country's changing rules, tightening rules and eliminating my family.  AS I stated before this did happen to us with China and we were literally weeks from DTC.  But we honored and respected their right to feel our family was not "Ideal" for their orphangs.  I don't agree.  But I still respect their feeling.

[Fcvnad...@aol.com]

Dear Linh,
Your post was beautiful! If we, the adoptive community, do not appreciate deversity, how can we expect others to appreciate the deversity of our families? It's heart breaking how many losses we experience when we put ourselves in the place of being judgemental rather than inclusive.
Thank you,
Cheryl @ FCVN

[Prettygo...@aol.com]

Hi all (joining the fray):

 

It appears that most countries do not have a specific law that forbids gay parent adoption, but may have a tendency to 'discourage' the practice, which would move some agencies to require hetero-orientation statements.

 

Linh mentioned how homosexuality is perceived/treated in Vietnamese society. I discussed this with a gay Vietnamese-American woman friend a couple of years ago.  She has an aunt back home who is (fairly) openly gay who lives with a partner and who raise their bio children together.  Family knows about their orientation, and it seemed that the main concern was if you can support yourself, not be a burden on your family and contribute to helping the family (the expectations of everyone), then you are accepted.  When I traveled in Vietnam for the 2 months for my trip, I was consistently greeted with shock when I told people I was not married at my age (38 at the time) and that I was doing such a thing (adopting a child) on my own.  From their perspective, it was inconceivable, but that's coming from the perspective of someone in a culture where there is such poverty.  Being able to support yourself as a single person in Vietnam must be a very difficult thing indeed.  Many women, after a moment's thought, finally smiled slyly and added that I was very smart: "That way you don't have to take care of a husband, too!"

 

I was not asked to sign a heterosexual orientation statement for my homestudy in 2001.  I have very close friend who adopted from China as a single Mom in 2000, traveling just before everything hit the fan in China (as I recall it was a magazine article written by a woman lawyer basically saying how easy it was to adopt as a gay parent in China (feel free to correct me and elaborate, anyone, for the people who might not know the details))...she almost didn't make it home with her daughter.  The door slammed shut for singles adoptions in China for a while afterwards.

 

Bear in mind, everyone, that while there's a lot of folks in the world who idolize American culture (for many of the wrong reasons: geeze, 'Baywatch' was the most watched American show on the entire planet at one point), there are plenty more who resent us for the same stuff.  Beyond that, anyone who has traveled outside of the country much knows that there is resentment as well for American policies dictating to the rest of the world our culture, beliefs, values, desires just because we're big and rich and powerful and we can.  Even our aid comes with a price tag, requiring in return specific behavior or policy changes or favors of one sort or another.  How much do you like it when a family member does a favor or helps out and there's always a 'catch'?  Also in my travels (15 or so countries), I have experienced more times than I can count embarrassment when a 'typical American' wreaks havoc in a restaurant/public place/you-name-it with demands and arrogant, loud, brash, whats-in-it-for-me behavior to the point where I just tried to blend into the wall and pretended not to speak English.  Sure that's not everyone, but that one person is the one they remember.

 

So here we are talking about our 'rights.'  As an American, we have rights...in America, and sometimes we have a hard enough time right here.  There are no 'global rights' that we signed onto, not for a long time to come, at least.  I certainly expect to be held to the laws and codes of a country when I am a VISITOR (read: 'guest') there, not American laws. If I don't care for their practices, I don't go there.  I'm not saying be silent and just bow down to (what *we* view as) close-minded discriminatory behavior.  Perhaps if homosexuals didn't agree with a country's policy (or law), they should publicly 'boycott' and make a big stink instead of throwing down the gauntlet by flaunting their policies after the fact.  I don't believe that will happen because individuals won't get what they are after...I know how strong that drive is to want a child...

 

I relate to the person who stated that adoption from foreign countries is not our RIGHT, it's a PRIVILEGE that they extend to us.  I assure you that most governments are none too keen on someone, especially Americans, standing in their face and saying a) you're WRONG b) you need to do this MY way (I have my rights) c) I want to adopt a beautiful child from your country that you are obviously unable to take care of d) I will be willfully deceitful or do whatever else is necessary (because I have my rights).  Someone else mentioned that gay parents make wonderful parents and that by eliminating them would leave so many more orphans to languish in orphanages.  Having more doors slam shut to singles adoption overall would leave that many more.

 

I am NOT saying that gay people can't be great parents.  I am NOT saying that gay people shouldn't be able to adopt.  What I am saying is that there are times and ways to, as I mentioned before, throw down the gauntlet.  The rest of the world gets pretty tired of 'us Americans' saying "this is what WE want, this is what YOU should do, this is how WE want it to go and we're going to do what we want no matter what YOU think" over so many issues so often, that they are going to be less than receptive to one more thing, even if it might be something they don't have that big a problem with.  Other peoples' and countries response towards us comes with a lot of baggage that we have helped to create.

 

My few dollars' worth...

 

Ellen Fitzenrider

Friend, family member, social acquaintance, co-church member and neighbor to many gay people, including some great parents and grandparents.

Happen-to-be-hetero

single-mommy to Katherine Huong, from Lang Son Province, home Jan/02
see Katherine's Page
Author, 'Finding Katherine...a spiritual journey to Vietnam and motherhood'
Founder www.InternationalAdoptionNews.com (upcoming at the end of September!)

[Erin Henderson]

I have some really unexpected news to share with our APV friends.
Our family was blessed with two new daughters last week. Mercades is 9 years
old and Destinee is 6 years old. They are African American sisters.
An agency that we had contacted when we were looking for a baby (right
before we got Marcus) called and asked if we were still looking for an AA
baby. We said no, we had gotten one in April. Then they said that they had a
birthmom due with a baby in Dec. and she also had two daughters that needed
to be placed. They wanted to place all three children together. I told them
that we couldn't afford the fees for the baby but would be interested in the
girls if no one else was able to take all three kids. We assumed that would
be the end of it all, but they called back after getting our homestudy and
said that they felt we were the ideal family for the girls! (They chose a
family in Utah for the baby and we will be in contact with them).
We had a few visits with the girls, including two overnight visits to make
sure that they fit in well with our family. All of our kids loved them
instantly and wanted us to adopt them. Josh and I felt the same way... We
had been warned by a few people that adopting older kids is different than
adopting a baby and that we wouldn't have that instant bond and love that
you do with a baby, but I have to say that that was not our experience.
These girls were OUR girls so fast...I love them with all my heart and could
not love them anymore if I had gotten them as newborns.
They had excellent counseling before they were placed with us and we have
gotten really great counseling here as well. Their transition could not be
going any better...they are happy, affectionate, open about their feelings
and just wonderful kids. They have been through a lot and very much just
want to be happy kids. They love their new siblings (and vice versa). They
started school and are doing really well there too.
They have brought an amazing about of joy to our home and family. We weren't
really looking for more children, but sometimes the unexpected blessings are
the best kind.
Anyway, I just wanted to share our good news with all of you. I am taking
distance ed college courses through our state university this fall...I am
working on earning my degree in social work, which has eaten up a LOT of my
email time. :)
The children of Vietnam and all of the families waiting and praying for
things to open up again remain in our thoughts and prayers. Our Maggie from
Vietnam was our very first adoption and it was an amazing experience.
Best to all,
Erin
Afton, Wyoming
Wife to Josh
Mom to 3 homegrown boys, Nathan 8, Ryan 6.5 and Shane almost 5
Our princess from Vietnam, Margaret Kim Claire
Born 9/30/01 G&R 1/7/02
Our angel from Korea, Amanda Mee Yeon
born 6/1/01 home 4/16/03
Our AA dream baby, Marcus Emmanuel, born 4/24/04, in our arms forever on
4/25/04
And our two AA beauties, Mercades 5/95 and Destinee 4/98
Marcus pics
http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeIOG7Fm3btGFi

Amanda pics
http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeIOG7Fm3btGFA

Maggie pics
http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeIOG7Fm3btGE3

Pics of the boys
http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeIOG7Fm3btGFR
Read Maggie's story www.adoptvietnam.org/adoption/maggie.htm

[Hershey, Marjorie R.]

Wow, Erin, how wonderful for you! We wish you all the best with your new children and in your journey toward a Social Work degree -- goodness knows, you're getting the best possible training at home for counseling people about family dynamics! And happy birthday to Miss Maggie. Best, Margie (mom)

[gef]

What a wonderful story!  Thanks for sharing it with us.  How fortunate you are to have found two wonderful daughters to add to your family, and how lucky they are to have found such loving parents.

Congratulations!

Liz

Liz & Gregg Fleming
Family web page: http://members.nuvox.net/~on.gef/
Parents to Taylor Philip (1/1/99), Macey Maia (6/1/99), and Joshua James (6/24/01)
Ohio

----- Original Message -----

From: Erin Henderson

To: a...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 1:42 PM

Subject: APV: Very OT-our family update

Read Maggie's story www.adoptvietnam..org/adoption/maggie.htm

[Sara...@aol.com]

In a message dated 9/10/2004 11:44:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Prettygo...@aol.com writes:

Perhaps if homosexuals didn't agree with a country's policy (or law), they should publicly 'boycott' and make a big stink instead of throwing down the gauntlet by flaunting their policies after the fact. 

I am confused by this post.  Aren't we discussing gay aparents talking to a writer about their adoption journeys?  And what does that have to do with "throwing down the gauntlet by flaunting their policies after the fact?"  And, correct me if I am wrong, but haven't we discussed that Vietnam does not have any laws or policies about gay people adopting.  I was a single adoptive mother in the late fall of 2001.  Weeks before my referral, my adoption agency insisted that I sign an affavidit stating I wasn't gay among other things.  My understanding at the time was that it was my agency requesting the document not the country of Vietnam.  I believed that my adoption agency was fearful that Vietnam would go the way of China and that they (the adoption agency) would be shut out of the lucrative adoption buisness.  It seemed to me it was an issue of money, as it seems is often the case in international adoption.

 

I find this discussion curious....that gay a-parents can be good parents, and should be allowed to adopt as long as they keep quiet about. it  Surely, no one believes that the Vietnamese government is unaware of gay a-parents.  If we are all aware of it, why must we keep pretending otherwise.  I am not talking about being "blatant" or "flaunting" or even "throwing down the gauntlet."  I am talking about being real.  It seem strange that through all of adoption literature and training, I have been taught that openness is incredibly important for the health of adopted child and all of the triad.  Yet in this instance, the message seems to be that keeping quiet is in the best interest of the larger group, regardless of what that means to a child and his/her family.   Surely children adopted by gay a-parents are as happy about their families as straight families.  It might be really great, and probably even more important, for them to see articles about their families as it is for children who live with straight parents.

 

Lastly  "Perhaps if homosexuals didn't agree with a country's policy (or law), they should publicly 'boycott' and make a big stink....."  I would hope that everyone who finds a policy or law offensive would deal with it in some way.   Discriminatory policies hurt children, and families, and all of us regardless if we are part of the marginalized group.

 

Sarah

[J Baldwin]

Just wanted to congratulate you! What an amazing blessing!

-----Original Message-----
From: Erin Henderson [mailto:fullh...@Silverstar.com]

Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 10:43 AM
To: a...@googlegroups.com
Subject: APV: Very OT-our family update

[Byers & Slobodin]

As one who has also wanted to fade into the wall (all too often) at the behavior of my fellow Americans abroad, AMEN SISTER!

Susan Byers
Mom to Sam (U.S.), Leah (China), Zoë Tâm & Ben (Viet Nam)
plus four cats and two dogs
Wife to Len
(Really) Tired but happy

-----Original Message-----
From: Prettygo...@aol.com [mailto:Prettygo...@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 6:34 AM
To: a...@googlegroups.com

Subject: APV: Re: gay parents

 ...  while there's a lot of folks in the world who idolize American culture (for many of the wrong reasons: geeze, 'Baywatch' was the most watched American show on the entire planet at one point), there are plenty more who resent us for the same stuff.  Beyond that, anyone who has traveled outside of the country much knows that there is resentment as well for American policies dictating to the rest of the world our culture, beliefs, values, desires just because we're big and rich and powerful and we can.  Even our aid comes with a price tag, requiring in return specific behavior or policy changes or favors of one sort or another.  How much do you like it when a family member does a favor or helps out and there's always a 'catch'?  Also in my travels (15 or so countries), I have experienced more times than I can count embarrassment when a 'typical American' wreaks havoc in a restaurant/public place/you-name-it with demands and arrogant, loud, brash, whats-in-it-for-me behavior to the point where I just tried to blend into the wall and pretended not to speak English.  Sure that's not everyone, but that one person is the one they remember.  ... 

[Indigo Williams Willing]

Thank you for sharing your family news and good luck with the continuing education in social work Erin.

I met with an adoptive parent of 5 children only last Friday, who is just finishing her PhD studying attachment issues in psychology - so keep up the workload and you'll do wonders.  My best wishes to your future and that of your eight children.

And most of all, congratulations for staying on forums like APV where it's all about community. Hope to see more of your posts sharing the good, the bad and the every-day because we need to share more of our lives and our worlds with each other.

 

Indigo

______________________________
Indigo Williams Willing (Thuy Thi Diep Huynh)

adopted from vietnam in 1972

Founder - Adopted Vietnamese International
www.adoptedvietnamese.org

 

Message -----

From: Erin Henderson

To: a...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 1:42 PM

Subject: APV: Very OT-our family update

 

......They love their new siblings (and vice versa). They

[Wendy Gaus]

Nicely said.  Best, Wendy mom to Sadie Grace adopted from Thai Nguyen VN Oct. 1998

 

---

From: Sara...@aol.com [mailto:Sara...@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 3:56 PM
To: a...@googlegroups.com
Subject: APV: Re: gay parents

 

In a message dated 9/10/2004 11:44:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Prettygo...@aol.com writes:

[Dan & Amy Radomski]

Congratulations Erin! Thanks for sharing such happy news.
Best wishes,
Amy
mom to 2 (Vietnam)
waiting to bring home our first son (Taiwan)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erin Henderson" <fullh...@Silverstar.com>
To: <a...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 1:42 PM
Subject: APV: Very OT-our family update


>

[Erin Henderson]

Thanks to Indigo and everyone else for the congrats and your love and support. ;)
Hugs,

Erin
Afton, Wyoming
Wife to Josh
Mom to 3 homegrown boys, Nathan 8, Ryan 6.5 and Shane almost 5
Our princess from Vietnam, Margaret Kim Claire
Born 9/30/01 G&R 1/7/02
Our angel from Korea, Amanda Mee Yeon
 born 6/1/01  home 4/16/03
Our AA dream baby, Marcus Emmanuel, born 4/24/04, in our arms forever on 4/25/04

And our two AA beauties,  Mercades 5/95 and Destinee 4/98, home forever on 9/2/04
Marcus pics