Firefox freezes when moving / zooming maps

[DB7MM]

Anybody else experiencing the following problem?
aprs.fi map display freezes on Firefox 48.0.1 on Windows XP when you move or zoom the map. Moving is not that critical, zooming in will reproducibly freeze Firefox. This both happens with Google maps and OSM.
Start at http://aprs.fi/#!lat=49.93330&lng=11.78330
Click the +-button several times or use the scroll wheel to zoom in.
If wait at each zoom level until the map is loaded, sometimes it will not freeze or only for a limited time. But once several zoom levels are skipped, Firefox will freeze every time.
When I change the tab and return to the aprs.fi-tab the client area is not refreshed at all. Sometimes it is completely black, sometimes fragments of the other tabs are displayed.

Seems the freezing is correlated with new map tiles being loaded from internet.

73 de Michael, DB7MM

[Heikki Hannikainen]

On Sat, 20 Aug 2016, DB7MM wrote:

> Anybody else experiencing the following problem?
> aprs.fi map display freezes on Firefox 48.0.1 on Windows XP when you move or zoom the map. Moving is not that critical, zooming in will reproducibly freeze Firefox. This
> both happens with Google maps and OSM.
> Start at http://aprs.fi/#!lat=49.93330&lng=11.78330
> Click the +-button several times or use the scroll wheel to zoom in.
> If wait at each zoom level until the map is loaded, sometimes it will not freeze or only for a limited time. But once several zoom levels are skipped, Firefox will freeze
> every time.
> When I change the tab and return to the aprs.fi-tab the client area is not refreshed at all. Sometimes it is completely black, sometimes fragments of the other tabs are
> displayed.

I tested with Firefox 48.0.1 on Mac OS X, on a fairly fast laptop. Seems
to work fine.

It is quite slow, with 1-hour time range and zoomed out, at that area
there's so many stations that the firefox javascript engine takes a lot of
time to deal with all the stations and points drawn.

But no, it doesn't totally hang for me, with tab switching or zooming
around.

Windows XP being quite old, and not getting any security updates or other
fixes any more, I'm guessing the computer isn't brand new either. Could
you try using Google Chrome, it usually runs faster, does it have the same
problem?

- Hessu

[DB7MM]

Dear Hessu,

thanks for the answer and sorry for the late reply.

I tested with Firefox 48.0.1 on Mac OS X, on a fairly fast laptop. Seems
to work fine.

Seems to only affect Firefox on Windows XP. I have tested on 3 different XP-computers, same problem with all. In contrast Firefox 48.0.1 on Windows 7 is fine.
 

It is quite slow, with 1-hour time range and zoomed out, at that area
there's so many stations that the firefox javascript engine takes a lot of
time to deal with all the stations and points drawn.

To my mind the problem is not the stations display but loading the map tiles. Even tracking a single station causes the tab to freeze, e.g. selecting
http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=10&ts=1471737600&te=1471824000&call=a%2FDB7MM-9
Happens both on Google Maps and OSM maptiles.

Windows XP being quite old, and not getting any security updates or other
fixes any more, I'm guessing the computer isn't brand new either. Could
you try using Google Chrome, it usually runs faster, does it have the same
problem?

I agree Windows XP is a dying platform. But for some shack computers with single core CPU and 1 GB of RAM upgrading to Windows 7 is not really an option.
Google Chrome does not freeze, but Google has already stopped releasing new Chrome versions for Windows XP end of 2015.

73 de Michael, DB7MM

[Heikki Hannikainen]

On Thu, 25 Aug 2016, DB7MM wrote:

> I tested with Firefox 48.0.1 on Mac OS X, on a fairly fast laptop. Seems
> to work fine.
>
> Seems to only affect Firefox on Windows XP. I have tested on 3 different XP-computers, same problem with all. In contrast Firefox 48.0.1 on Windows 7 is fine.
>  

> To my mind the problem is not the stations display but loading the map tiles. Even tracking a single station causes the tab to freeze, e.g. selecting
> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=10&ts=1471737600&te=1471824000&call=a%2FDB7MM-9
> Happens both on Google Maps and OSM maptiles.

The map tile loading is done by Google's code - no matter if you select
OSM or Google Maps, it's still Google Maps javascript API doing the
loading. The map tile graphics are supplied by Google and OSM servers
respectively, so aprs.fi is not really involved at all. If there's a
problem with map tiles loading, unfortunately I cannot really affect that
in any way.

If it's just Firefox, on XP, it may well be a Firefox bug. I find it
unlikely that it will get much priority in either Google's or Firefox
backlog to investigate it, due to the obsolete status of XP. But, you can
try.

> Windows XP being quite old, and not getting any security updates or other
> fixes any more, I'm guessing the computer isn't brand new either. Could
> you try using Google Chrome, it usually runs faster, does it have the same
> problem?
>
> I agree Windows XP is a dying platform. But for some shack computers
> with single core CPU and 1 GB of RAM upgrading to Windows 7 is not
> really an option.

Due to the lack of security updates for XP, I'd generally recommend
detaching any XP machines from the Internet altogether. For just web
browsing on a low-spec machine, I'd recommend one of the Linux
distributions (Ubuntu or such), for that purpose it'll work fine and
you'll get security fixes for quite a while still.

- Hessu

[Nosey Nick VA3NNW]

On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 5:34:33 PM UTC-4, Heikki Hannikainen wrote:

Due to the lack of security updates for XP, I'd generally recommend
detaching any XP machines from the Internet altogether

Absolutely. Chances are your performance problems, apart from the single-core CPU, are caused by your machine being hacked to become a member of some spammer's botnet. There are WELL KNOWN, UNPATCHED, EASILY EXPLOITABLE security holes in WinXP. Doesn't matter if "I have the best antivirus software" - once your OS is unsupported and unpatched, that's like saying you are taking great antibiotics whilst you have several gaping stab wounds and nobody to stop the bleeding.
 

For just web browsing on a low-spec machine, I'd recommend one of the Linux
distributions (Ubuntu or such), for that purpose it'll work fine and
you'll get security fixes for quite a while still.

I will admit I'm slightly surprised FireFox 48 is available for XP. When an old MacOS version went "end of support", Mozilla were very quick to drop support for it too. That particular laptop is now running Linux quite adequately, my Kids even use it for Minecraft.

[DB7MM]

Am Sonntag, 28. August 2016 20:32:49 UTC+2 schrieb Nosey Nick VA3NNW:

Absolutely. Chances are your performance problems, apart from the single-core CPU, are caused by your machine being hacked to become a member of some spammer's botnet. There are WELL KNOWN, UNPATCHED, EASILY EXPLOITABLE security holes in WinXP. Doesn't matter if "I have the best antivirus software" - once your OS is unsupported and unpatched, that's like saying you are taking great antibiotics whilst you have several gaping stab wounds and nobody to stop the bleeding.

In principle I agree. But we should also see the other side. Also every fully patched Windows 7, 8, 10 has lots of unfixed security holes! The only difference: Only a small minority knows about. That's the principle of 0-day exploits. Of course we hope these issues are fixed some (patch) day - but until this happens a new Windows 10 is as vulnerable as an old XP. Have you ever counted how many security holes Microsoft has fixed from 2001 to 2014 in XP? Propably most of them were released already in 2001. So in fact, many (nearly) undiscovered security holes were present for up to 13 years! And I bet situation is not better for the new Windows versions.

One reason the security issues of XP are stressed so much is simply Microsoft's profit maximization. Many users were happy with XP even after Windows 8 and 10 were released. How to sell the 8 or 10 nobody wants or needs? Support end for XP was due anyway and making the lack of security updates a big scenario was the best advertizing Microsoft could do for their new 8 and 10 crap. Being obliged to install adware (Get Windows X) on Windows 7 computers shows how desperate Microsoft was/is to push a big fail into the market.
 

 

For just web browsing on a low-spec machine, I'd recommend one of the Linux
distributions (Ubuntu or such), for that purpose it'll work fine and
you'll get security fixes for quite a while still.

As a first test for migration I started up my Ubuntu 12.04 LTS which is a dual boot on the Windows XP PC. Firefox was still version 47 on this one but anyway. Opened aprs.fi to instantly see a security banner "Firefox has prevented the outdated plugin "Adobe Flash" from running on http://aprs.fi" - ah yes, I remember: no recent, safe Adobe Flash available for Unbuntu anyway. Never mind, lets test the tile loading of aprs.fi. Same issue as under Windows XP!
So not a pure Windows XP issue and another platform on the black list for aprs.fi. I really wonder whether the Google Maps API or Firefox is the guilty part. Everything was fine some months ago and now somebody has broken something.

 

I will admit I'm slightly surprised FireFox 48 is available for XP. When an old MacOS version went "end of support", Mozilla were very quick to drop support for it too. That particular laptop is now running Linux quite adequately, my Kids even use it for Minecraft.

One reason I never was interested in the Apple stuff: Once a new product is available you are obliged to scrap all the old ones.

73 de Michael, DB7MM

[Heikki Hannikainen]

Hi,

This is quickly becoming a "which operating system is worst / best"
thread, which is quite off-topic for this mailing list. Let's stop right
here and just talk about the web site.

On Mon, 29 Aug 2016, DB7MM wrote:

> As a first test for migration I started up my Ubuntu 12.04 LTS which is a
> dual boot on the Windows XP PC. Firefox was still version 47 on this one but
> anyway. Opened aprs.fi to instantly see a security banner "Firefox has
> prevented the outdated plugin "Adobe Flash" from running on http://aprs.fi"
> - ah yes, I remember: no recent, safe Adobe Flash available for Unbuntu
> anyway. Never mind, lets test the tile loading of aprs.fi. Same issue as
> under Windows XP!

Right, I should probably get rid of the sound effects player flash bits,
since Flash is quickly disappearing from the market. I don't know if that
feature (play sound when map is updated) was ever used much, could maybe
just drop it altogether.

> So not a pure Windows XP issue and another platform on the black list for
> aprs.fi.

Well, on that platform there are other browser options (chromium at least)
which should work OK, even if Google and Firefox are having some
compatibility issues.

- Hessu