Android versions

[Jeffrey Ross]

Although it doesn't effect Avare yet, Google is making moves to kill off
the older versions of the Android operating system.  The versions in
question right now are  earlier than 3.0 which are at least 10 years
old.  The bigger question is when is Google going to kill off "newer"
versions that should be dead in the eyes of Google.


https://support.google.com/android/thread/118703101/sign-in-on-android-devices-running-android-2-3-7-or-lower-will-not-be-allowed-starting-september-27?hl=en

Jeff

[Brad Walker]

This is to be expected.. The older versions really have some fundamental engineering issues/bugs. Now that technology has progressed and knowledge has been gained, it's time to end these old devices..

-brad w.

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[t v]

Hi.

That is exactly what they do to people now days, brainwash.

There is Nothing wrong with older devices, there are no real improvements in the technology, the only reason they create all this electronic waste, is to sell more, make more profit and implement more intrusive code that allows more control over users.

I suggest to all, the new and easily persuaded, learn more about Hardware / Software interface and to look into what the next intentions of Google, FaceBook, MS... are.

Go buy, for the big spenders, a Defcon DD-1206 detector, or for the technically inclined build an Arduino Nano 33 IOT and keep looking at your new, and present devices, appliances, Surveillance equipment, TVs....

We are in a position in USA where there is no privacy and most of the younger generation have no real understanding of what privacy is and willing to accept everything that others tell them because they are Not willing to put in the effort to really understand the devices, computers, interfaces.... We've got China, Russia, Iran.... playing us like fools and the large corporations are more than willing to go along, at least in part is because most of their employees have no real understanding  of what is going on, or know what they are doing,  either.

If the Law enforcement would be doing to us what some of these companies are, most of them would be in jail or out of a job.

[Brad Walker]

I work in the embedded engineering field professionally, currently. In addition, I have worked for Ericsson for several years and also worked for Qualcomm on porting Android to new platforms.

There are very valid technical reasons to obsolete the older versions of Android. You can call it "brainwashing" if you want. But, there are valid technical reasons for this to be done.

So I guess we can agree to disagree on this one..

As for your other comments about the intrusiveness of technology into one's life, I firmly agree.

-brad w.

[t v]

Hi Brad.

You keep trying to explain things that make no sense.

Tell me one good reason why the AOS could not have been backwards compatible? We've done that for many years in Medical, Main frames Computers, Mini, Micros... but now everything is being considered obsolete, just because of Software.

Give me one example of code that you can find that cannot be added / adapted to the old hardware, we are talking Tablets / AOS, and not maintain backwards compatibility?

The only time that, backward compatibility, becomes an issue is  if the hardware technology changes drastically, which is Not the case with the devices we  are using, and you are forced to write new / incompatible code. There may be new functions added with some new features but that will not prevent one from maintain compatibility. They just force us to make changes to get more control and more profit. TV

[Brad Walker]

Here are several examples..

1 - security

A lot of the security stuff is driven by the ability to create numbers that are really random. This means you need a good RNG with good entropy. The older h/w  just doesn't have the support for this. In addition, the security software is very computationally intensive, even with modern technology. The old h/w just doesn't have the h/w support for this. In addition, the industry has gone to TLS 1.3 which means all previous versions are most likely not going to work.

2 - graphics

The reason that a lot of the gui stuff works is because we have GPU acceleration. This means the ability to throw around matrices are made easy. In addition, the rendering pipeline has h/w shader support. A lot of the old hardware just simply can't keep up with the demands of current rendering pipelines.

3 - practical

It becomes more and more difficult to get current technical information about h/w because a lot of the vendors no longer provide support for their hardware. When I worked on the Qualcomm 820 series processor, it was difficult to get information for a lot of the older processors. This problem just gets more difficult as each year goes by.

4 - economic

A big reason a lot of the equipment you mention is supported for years is because someone is paying for a support contract. When was the last time you paid a support fee for your cell phone? The vendor who made your cell phone paids for the support fees for the compiler, the h/w test infrastructure, the simulator, and various other things. You benefit from this by getting a good quality product that gets regular updates. But, companies make business decisions to move to newer stuff and the old stuff just gets deprecated.

The list just goes on and on. The last version of Android 2.x to be released was in Sept. 2011. That's approx. 10 years ago. In terms of technology, that's eons ago.

As a friendly reminder these companies have costly employees to pay. So if they don't make money, they can't keep the lights on. That's not a good place to be in..

-brad w.

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[Dean Gibson ATP/CFI]

Ironically, TV's argument (below) about privacy & security, is one of the things driving these changes.  Protocols & applications that appeared secure ten years ago, aren't secure now, & may not have been so back then.

I don't like the fact that I had to recently convert all my web sites to https (secure http), and get & configure SSL certificates for them.  I don't like that (as a university faculty member) I can't put up a simple Java "Hello World"-type of application on a web site (as I used to for students, 20 years ago), but must "sign" each such application.  The world is tired of dealing with Internet bad actors, & for better or worse, these obnoxious new restrictions appear to be the lesser of two evils.

Then there's hardware changes.  When new CPU chips provide new instructions & capabilities for doing common routines so much better (or more securely), applications are rewritten to take advantage of the performance (& sometimes the decrease in app size).  When that happens, maintaining two software streams for the few hold-outs with ten-year-old devices, isn't practical, or sometimes even secure.  It won't be long before all apps that require security (eg, bank apps or medical apps) will require the fingerprint readers (new hardware) that are becoming commonplace.  That's a good thing.

When Microsoft made Windows 10 a free upgrade, for most computer owners, it wasn't out of the goodness of their heart.  It was to help reduce the vast number of older versions of Windows out there, thus helping to reduce old (& un-updated) computers that were an attacker's best friend.  The cry of "I'm not updating my computer unless I see a need" was a big part of the problem.  We don't live in an isolated world.  Twenty years ago, my Linux server had an un-updated vulnerability, & was used as the third hop in a 5-hop attack on a bank.  I was a week away from doing the update that would have prevented it.  Older computers (that includes handheld devices) are a favorite target, because of "I don't need no stinking updates" attitudes.

People are so ignorant of even basic security precautions, or they don't care ("it will never happen to them"). The owner of a flight school I worked for ten years ago, was astounded that we criticized his choice of a gate password of "1234".  He said, "Who would think of that?"  I don't believe he has changed it since then.  Stupid ideas (& pride) harden people.

To bring this down-to-earth, consider FAA mandatory AD notices.  Anyone think that these are only important for the "big guys" (airlines) & not for the sport pilot???  I knew four pilots that died in self-induced induced accidents, three of them in airplanes (two were CFIs).

As a CFI for over 50 years, one of the things that bothers me about this mailing list, is that I think there are a large number of really cheap pilots on it.  No one wants to die, but the persistent desire to save a few bucks that seems to permeate the mailing list, has bothered me from the very start.

Now, to take this even more down-to-earth, take COVID-19.  In this case, we see people that refuse to mask up, or even worse, decline to get the vaccine, because of some infantile (sorry, guys) reasons having to do with invasion of privacy or freedom or self-importance.  Even now, they are killing themselves off, but not without forcing all of us to pay the price because of their selfishness.

Get updated, get modern hardware, don't be cheap, & get vaccinated.

-- Dean  ( http://airmen.mailpen.com/airman/dean/ )

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[Dean Gibson ATP/CFI]

People are so used to software being "free" that they don't realize the very real costs involved in maintaining it.  It's particularly ironic on this mailing list.

"Give me one example of code that you can find that cannot be added / adapted to the old hardware, ..."

OK, who is paying for that?  Certainly not the cheapskates that won't update their hardware.

I'm sorry, but my opinion is, that if you can't afford a new tablet every five years, you shouldn't be flying an aircraft that you own.

-- Dean  ( http://airmen.mailpen.com/airman/dean/ )

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[Dean Gibson ATP/CFI]

My main career was writing OS software, device drivers, & application software full-time from 1968 until I retired from software development in 2008.  I flew as a hobby from 1967 until 2008, accumulating about 2700 PIC hours & 1300 CFI hours until 2008, when I then worked full-time as a CFI until I retired from instructing in 2015 with over 4000 PIC hours.  I also did a brief stint at the Univ. of Washington, teaching computer software subjects.

Some of my OS-level software is in the OSes of older smartphones.  I hope you like it.

-- Dean  ( http://airmen.mailpen.com/airman/dean/ )

On 2021-08-06 21:12, 't v' via Apps4Av Forum wrote:

...

It’s obvious that you have very little understanding of how computers  / OS software works, but you are loud and WRONG and entitled to your opinion.

[Zubair Khan]

Even though I have tremendous respect for TV, I tend to agree with others that keeping old HW is problematic.



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[t v]

>>…I tend to agree with others that keeping old HW is problematic.<<

 

Hi Z.

I totally agree with you, but the problem is Not the hardware, is the methods use to keep you from using the existing hardware.   There are companies that have no respect for any one or anything. G  is  not the only one, others started using the same methods after they’ve realized that they can get away with it and there is profit to be made at any cost.

We now have MS, Win 10 is the most intrusive OS ever, it sounds like 11 may be worse, where they track every second of user's time. They have built in code, to force you to update,  that hackers and extortionists can easily access to lock you out of your system. Then the same companies sell security services to other companies using personal information that they collected illegally.

Their only goal is to push others around and make sure they get total control, they use the same methods like a totalitarian / mafia organizations.

The worst thing is the there are people, that should know better, that  are not realizing what is going on and buying into their brainwash technique.

Take Avare as an example. It worked, and still works fine, maybe better, in the old devices and they forced changes that make it less useful, in older devices, like Track, SD Save option...

I, personally, can do fine without all these toys, 3 of the 4  devices obsolete now, were used as loaners to “cheap-pilots” that can really use / benefit from using them. I also benefited by analyzing Tracks, maneuvers... now they are useless.  Going back to using my ETrex. I am likely a very small part of this mess they are causing.

Will there be a day when these devices will really be obsolete because they cannot handle the code? Of course, but they are but anywhere near that point now.

The only reason they do what they are doing is to get new deices, registrations, mining personal information and more profit. No, I am not against profit as long as is done without abusing others.

I hope someone awakes up and takes steps to stop this behavior, but I am not holding my breath. Some former, and present, CEOs, CFOs… have gone on public record stating that people have no right to your own private information. TV

[Zubair Khan]

Hi TV

I agree with you. But this is not a fight I have resources to fight.

Working is less fun these days because of all the security related things. GitHub just made it mandatory to use access tokens. This token looks like a very long password to me. Since I cannot remember it, I have to store it somewhere which makes it less secure than a password in my head.

Things are much worse at my day job. I constantly have to enter a password and then use fingerprints to do 2FA for every tool that I use. I have to beg the admin to give me access to any tool and when the admin is on vacation.

That's why I have turned to hiking in remote areas as a new hobby :)




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