Artificial Intelligence in AvareX

[Apps4av Support]

Hi All

AvareX is starting with AI and cloud features in release 72+ on iOS and Android. These features are paid.

This is the first time in 12 years of Apps4Av we are charging for a service. 

While we strive to bring free and open source apps, ads free, this is impossible with AI services because the costs are prohibitive. 

For this reason, all AI services are paid and you will need to register and pay $5 per month for these services. We might add other paid features like fuel prices under this menu when the revenue model is established and we have money to pay for paid third party content.

If you need to try out, we can hand over free accounts for a limited time via reply to this email.

** All current features remain free **

How to AI - 

It is available under Flight Intelligence (Pro Services), and to get to it, you will need to press the "Pilot" incon on the top right on the Map screen. You will then register an account, and then sign up for a monthly subscription.

Initial testing shows a lot of promise. You can upload your logbook, plan, or airplane flight manual, and ask questions like - Am I instrument current? or Give me the minimum altitude for my IFR flight plan, or Describe the fuel system of my airplane.

See the attached picture for AI in action. Possibilities are limitless.

--

Regards,

Apps For Aviators Support,

We encourage users to use the Forum for all questions. Any updates to the forum will help other users, who might have similar questions.
Forum: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/apps4av-forum

[Curtis Miller]

If this be the case, I believe I will be backing away from AvareX :(

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[Apps4av Support]

You have given no reason for leaving. Is it AI, or is it payment? 

If it is payment, then you can continue using it without paying (but you will not get access to AI), if it is AI then you do not need to use it and it will be inactive till you pay and upload data to it.

 

[Curtis Miller]

Aaaah... Great answer!!! If that be the case... I'm all in:)  Thanks for clarifying! Part of my reason was pay but bigger reason was AI...

Thanks!!!

[Apps4av Support]

Maybe look at this answer from AvareX and then decide if AI is not for you.

Question - give me the best altitude for my flight plan and given aircraft.

Answer -

Based on your flight plan, aircraft, and the provided weather data, here is a recommendation for the best cruising altitude.

### 1. Flight Plan & Aircraft Summary

*   **Aircraft:** Cessna 172S Skyhawk SP (Based on the provided Pilot's Operating Handbook).

*   **Route:** KBOS (Boston, MA) to KHFD (Hartford, CT).

*   **Distance:** Approximately 87 NM.

*   **Magnetic Course:** Approximately 245°, which is a **westerly** direction of flight.

### 2. Analysis

**VFR Cruising Altitude Rule (FAR 91.159):**

For a VFR flight on a magnetic course between 180° and 359°, you must maintain an **even thousand-foot altitude plus 500 feet** (e.g., 4,500', 6,500', 8,500' MSL).

**Winds Aloft:**

The winds are favorable at all potential altitudes, providing a significant tailwind.

*   **3,000 ft:** 260° @ 23 kts

*   **6,000 ft:** 260° @ 21 kts

*   **9,000 ft:** 270° @ 32 kts

*   **12,000 ft:** 260° @ 41 kts

**Aircraft Performance (Cessna 172S):**

*   The service ceiling is 14,000 feet, making all standard VFR altitudes below this achievable.

*   As a normally aspirated aircraft, the Cessna 172S achieves better true airspeed (TAS) and fuel efficiency (Nautical Miles Per Gallon) at higher altitudes, with a "sweet spot" typically between 6,000 and 9,000 feet. The POH specifies a cruise speed of **124 KTAS at 8,500 feet** (75% power).

*   For a short flight of ~87 NM, the time spent climbing is a significant factor and can offset the time saved from a stronger tailwind.

### 3. Altitude Options & Recommendation

Here’s a breakdown of the most practical options:

| Altitude | Pros | Cons |

| :--- | :--- | :--- |

| **4,500' MSL** | • **Fastest overall trip time** due to short climb.<br>• Still benefits from a good tailwind (~22 kts). | • Less fuel efficient.<br>• More likely to encounter turbulence and other VFR traffic. |

| **6,500' MSL** | • **Excellent balance** of speed, efficiency, and comfort.<br>• Stronger tailwind (~26 kts) and better fuel economy than 4,500'.<br>• Moderate climb time for this distance. | • Slightly longer total time than 4,500'. |

| **8,500' MSL** | • **Most fuel-efficient cruise** and a very strong tailwind (~32 kts).<br>• Takes advantage of the 172S's optimal cruise performance.<br>• Likely the smoothest ride. | • The longer climb time will make this the slowest option for this short flight. |

---

### **Primary Recommendation: 6,500 feet MSL**

This altitude provides the best overall balance for your flight. You will take advantage of a strong tailwind and smoother air, resulting in good groundspeed and fuel efficiency, without the significant time penalty of climbing to a higher altitude on this relatively short leg.

#### **Alternative Recommendations:**

*   **For the Fastest Trip:** Choose **4,500 feet MSL**. If minimizing your total flight time is the top priority and you are comfortable with a potentially bumpier ride, this will be your quickest option.

*   **For Maximum Efficiency & Comfort:** Choose **8,500 feet MSL**. If fuel savings and the smoothest possible ride are your main goals, and you don't mind adding approximately 5-10 minutes to your total flight time, this altitude takes full advantage of both the aircraft's performance and the favorable winds.

**Note on Higher Altitudes:** Altitudes of 10,500' or 12,500' are not recommended for this short distance. The extended climb time would negate any wind advantage, and flights above 12,500' for more than 30 minutes would legally require the use of supplemental oxygen.

---

Regards,

Apps For Aviators Support,

We encourage users to use the Forum for all questions. Any updates to the forum will help other users, who might have similar questions.
Forum: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/apps4av-forum

[John W 4sba]

Apps4av wrote:
> AvareX is starting with AI and cloud features in release 72+

Wow that's a great option. Kudos on the planning and work that went into it.

> $5 per month for [AI] services. We might add other paid features

I like that it's completely optional, and that it's just $5/mo for those
who want the features. I can't think of a single thing related to flying
that's not a multiple of $5. I also like that it's enough to help defray
Apps4Av expenses, and hopefully also some compensation for the Dev
Team's tireless work.

Congratulations and Thanks!
John

[John Schreiber]

Yes, it is a great option that we don't have to pay for something that is hallucinating. Those winds straight up are a headwind, not a tailwind. If the wind is 260 at 23 knots, I'm going to take off from a runway like 27. 

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[Apps4av Support]

AI is as good as input. While I agree that it hallucinates but it's gotten much better at not. The app gave it winds that is non standard and it used it literally. I will fix that. It needs tuning but it's surprising me every day. You won't need your CFI to answer questions for you in near future.

Regards,

Apps For Aviators Support,

We encourage users to use the Forum for all questions. Any updates to the forum will help other users, who might have similar questions.
Forum: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/apps4av-forum

[vzfw Steinraud]

Greetings:

How will this handle someone that routinely flys 3 to 4 different aircraft on 3 different platforms (Android phone and two tablets)?

Kenneth Steenrod

SEL Commercial, Complex, IFR, Tail Wheel, Advanced Ground Instructor, A&P

Owner/Manager Squadron Field 11K

18742 McKinnley Lake Road Parsons Kansas, 67357 USA Home 620-763-2325 Cell 620-778-9577

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[Apps4av Support]

Greetings Kenneth

That's a very good point. Currently it will handle one plane per account or you can upload a manual when you need to query for that plane and keep changing manual for every plane. You may use same account on many tablets though and the data will be shared between your tablets. 

We will evolve it but we need help users guide it in the right direction. 

I can hand out free accounts for testing as long as it does not skyrocket our AI bills.

Regards,

Apps For Aviators Support,

We encourage users to use the Forum for all questions. Any updates to the forum will help other users, who might have similar questions.
Forum: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/apps4av-forum

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/1968513790.1884004.1765065776554%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Andrew Sarangan]

I am not in favor of this move, for two reasons. First, free and open-source software is inherently valuable, and that principle is central to why I use Avare and financially support it through a monthly contribution. Charging for any feature - even an optional one - undermines that principle. Second, the idea that flying a Cessna 172 would require AI assistance, frankly, sounds a bit silly.

[Apps4av Support]

All code including AI is open source still.

And you can make donations through store instead of PayPal by subscribing to the Pro service. 

Regards,

Apps For Aviators Support,

We encourage users to use the Forum for all questions. Any updates to the forum will help other users, who might have similar questions.
Forum: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/apps4av-forum

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/5dd3d86e-088d-47fb-b419-bbca87c35e83n%40googlegroups.com.

[gldre...@gmail.com]

Thanks for the announcement! I hadn't considered using AI for my flying, but I just tried showing ChatGPT (free version) a recent flight plan and weather briefing, and asked it for a critique. It gave a reasonable assessment--perhaps a bit overly cautious, but that's good. 

Of course it's not to be trusted uncritically, but it already seems roughly as useful as getting a second opinion from a fellow pilot. And it can be done for free, so the AvareX fee is only needed if one wants the convenience of integration with AvareX.

[gldre...@gmail.com]

Request: can there be an option to hide the pilot icon for those not using the AI services?

[GYRO_N5EG]

I am greatly saddened to hear this is the way AvareX is headed.

It was only two years ago I got my license and was thrilled to find a no BS, just works, no login required, no subscription, open-source flight app; perfect for most beginner VFR pilots.  

I have lost count the number of times I have been able to open AvareX and it just works, where my copilot on one of the paid for apps gets locked out of their app, all because the software is requiring an internet connection to verify the login information.

Build a Stratux ADS-B unit, and you have one powerful, reliable setup. (or at least this has been my experience)

Everyday the large corporate powers are jamming AI down our throats, subscriptions, useless features I don’t want to pay for, all while slowly eroding the fundamentals, or locking them behind more pay walls.

I understand at this moment, the AI is behind a subscription; and I understand, at the moment, AvareX is still free for the fundamentals. But I am deeply worried that this is the beginning of the enshittification process of AvareX. The little icon in the corner is proof that it has already begun. How long will it be till I open up AvareX and a big banner pops up each time desperately asking for my subscription to AI, my personal data, and a login just to use the fundamentals. Or eventually a subscription to use the app at all.

I am incredibly thankful for all the work the developers have poured in to this project; I’m sure their heart and soul. However now, I feel the clock has started ticking, and its only a matter of time until I will be forced to turn my back to this app.

Please prove me wrong.  

                            APS

[Apps4av Support]

Your concern is duly noted. You and some others feel second class users who do not have access to all the features. You are forced to pay to become the first class user. You now have an icon that reminds you that you have something less. You cannot claim that it is free. I feel that. 

It's not about open source because all the code is still open source, it's not about data safety because it still not does take your data, it's not about ads because there are still no ads. 

However if you see my side, the donations have dropped under $100 a month average and are going down, barely enough to cover the costs. Long term donators are leaving.

Second, I am getting old. I need to stay interested and relevant, and AI is the future. I find a great opportunity to play with it through the app. If people do not use it then I will remove it. But in the process I might dump the app because it is not interesting anymore, and pick up guitar playing.

Regards,

Zubair

We encourage users to use the Forum for all questions. Any updates to the forum will help other users, who might have similar questions.
Forum: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/apps4av-forum

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[Larry Larson]

Unfortunately, that's all too common. Freeware doesn't put food on the table. Sadly another fabulous app will probably get trashed by corporate greed.

LL

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/CADA_tR8eFadbxdUv54z1fD2yrK4yptm6De3LXtT081PHwkGeug%40mail.gmail.com.

[Apps4av Support]

I don't need your approval. I know what I have done for the community.

Zubair

[Andrew Sarangan]

It's sad to hear that donations are less than $100/month. Perhaps we are not soliciting contributions more aggressively. If everyone who uses Avare contributes the equivalent of one Cafe Latte per month, that will surely add up to a significant amount. I am happy to up my monthly contribution, but that will not make a dent unless everyone else does it too. My measure for freeware contribution is at least 25% of the equivalent commercial products. Foreflight with georef plates goes for $250/year, so $60/yr is not an unreasonable contribution for  Avare. I also contribute to Blender foundation and other free software that I regularly use. We are lucky these things exist. 

Yes, Freeware does not put food on the table, but that's not the mission. The mission is to at least break even and create an active user community. I am sure there are many fixed costs involved with the software development that needs to be paid for. 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/CANiEHLXpAKkGZtaDAki0d1ePBES1dAm6wbKeR6YBrByMMOUHfA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Gary L. Drescher]

I've just made an additional donation as well. Thank you for all your work on this, Zubair.

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[Robert Ohrenberg]

I made another donation as well.

I hope Zubair's day gets better.  The "But in the process I might dump the app..." comment was a bit concerning/alarming at the thought of losing a[nother] really good app.

[Bradley Spatz]

> Your concern is duly noted. 

You seem to have misconstrued the feedback regarding the AI strategy.  The concern is not "feeling second class" or even wanting to "become first class."  That would presume we want AI "features."   No, people are telling you they don't want AI in AvareX.

This is probably based on their experiences (like mine) with AI to date.  For an EFB (at least) they think it's silly, unnecessary, and don't share your goal of never having to speak with your (human) CFI.  And they see the costs involved.  Not just a (new) subscription fee, but the lost time/effort on integrating AI into AvareX over the last 3 months -- at the expense of working NOTAMs, in-flight reliability, etc.  And the app itself used to be 3 MB (Avare), then +10x to 30 MB (AvareX), and doubled again with AI integration.

We all value a simple, reliable, and open-source EFB and can see it in Avare*.  We appreciate the effort behind developing the code and ongoing effort processing the 28/56-day data/chart/plates updates.  But the declining donations and engagement is a referendum on the direction of AvareX (and probably of leaving Avare behind, multi-platform, etc.).

People don't want to lose Avare*.  But they see the trajectory we are on and are concerned, as I am.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/CADA_tR8eFadbxdUv54z1fD2yrK4yptm6De3LXtT081PHwkGeug%40mail.gmail.com.

Virus-free.www.avast.com

[Bradley Spatz]

On Mon, Dec 15, 2025 at 6:08 AM Apps4av Support <app...@gmail.com> wrote:

donations have dropped under $100 a month average and are going down, barely enough to cover the costs. Long term donators are leaving.

 

Are you saying the total monthly revenue to the Apps4Av non-profit is $100/month, or $1,200 annually?

What are the monthly expenses (apps4av.{org,com} server hosting, Github workflow)?  Fixed annual (501(c)(3) filing, domains, etc.)?

Perhaps we can help.

[Tzanko Tzanev]

Thanks goodness, the legacy Avare is still around. It's lean and clean and I love it (without AI).

Regards, TJ.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/CAM0J5u4az1R7S3irxFT5AcN6ouSmf5PWoKbJt5fdV8wW5jpPoQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Lynn Alley]

I just made a donation as well.  I love the apps, both original and X,  I hope everyone else who does in the community will join me in showing some support.  The idea of losing these apps really frightening.

LA

[vzfw Steinraud]

Greetings:

I respect your feelings on the subject Zubair. You have done a lot with very little. Thanks for all your effort and support.

Kenneth Steenrod

SEL Commercial, Complex, IFR, Tail Wheel, Advanced Ground Instructor, A&P

Owner/Manager Squadron Field 11K

18742 McKinnley Lake Road Parsons Kansas, 67357 USA Home 620-763-2325 Cell 620-778-9577

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/CADA_tR8eFadbxdUv54z1fD2yrK4yptm6De3LXtT081PHwkGeug%40mail.gmail.com.

[Jay L]

PLEASE DO  NOT TRASH AVARE 

It works fine. It could be improved, but I'll take it as is for free as it works on my tablet.

You need 3$ a month for it? 5$?  Its worth it to me.  But now that you're saying you might walk away, how can you expect folks to suddenly feel generous if next month its GONE.

Semi commercialization might be the way to go. A lifetime plex pass was an easy pill to swallow once.

Maybe do that?

[James Hardy]

These features don't really sound like ones that are needed. 

I log time with my flight book, I'm sane enough to check my own currency there under the currency tab and the idea of trusting AI to correctly answer anything from a POH sounds insane to me 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/5dd3d86e-088d-47fb-b419-bbca87c35e83n%40googlegroups.com.

[GYRO_N5EG]

Zubair, I appreciate the insight; and I just donated as well.

I would like to lay out a few more thoughts based on what I have read here, in hope of continuing a constructive dialogue.

As a starting note, I too pursue many passion projects outside of my day job. I have been the one working on a 3D printed Pi5 tablet specifically to run AvareX as a back up to my phone in the cockpit. I was hoping to share this with the community once I get it finalized. (I’m a bit of a perfectionist; it might take some time.) I bring this up because I fully understand that us creators, night programmers, tinkerers, makers, are all internally driven, and if that drive dies, or there is no financial incentive, the project will die as well. So I completely understand your desire to explore AI, if it’s what you want to do, then it’s what you got to do.

Thus, my comments from what I have read in this form. (Please don’t take any the following as a demand, it is just a point of view.)

I think much of our love for AvareX is that it is open source, no login required, no ads, and its lack of subscription. And above all, it just mostly works. The people to whom these attributes matter to by nature come search out such a software as AvareX. This is a good chunk of your community.

For a VFR pilot doing day trips here and there, or a new student learning, how much more do you really need? Heck, this took me from the east coast to Oshkosh and back.  

With the pivot to AI, we are concerned the core fundamentals will suffer as it pulls resources, your time, away. For example, as another user mentioned, I prefer the original Avare over AvareX at this current time. There are many little settings that are not yet incorporated into AvareX. With each update AvareX is getting better, and we all want to see the core feature set grow. The comment that you might abandon the project has rocked the faith in many of us. How do we justify donating at all, and especially now to the Dev team to work AI when we feel there is still so much AvareX needs at its core?   

Your comment about adding fuel prices is interesting to me. As a pilot I want easily accessible, up to date, clearly laid out data to make decisions. I would be interested to see if the community could make a list of data “wants” that would carry an understandable monthly cost because it requires active use of another service. Perhaps there are enough of these that could add up to a reasonable subscription cost where the Dev team can get a cut. Allow people to clearly understand what they are paying for and why.

A note on AI. I am really having a hard time understanding the value with the current state of the technology. Pilots have to trust their instruments; I need facts and empirical data, not the doubt that clouds all AI answers as of today. Much of what you seem to want to do with the AI could be hard coded. I know it’s not as fun or cutting edge but at least we know we can trust it. For example, on AvareX I still don’t understand how up to date the weather radar is, and if its actively using internet data or ADS-B data. This is the fundamental reason I still use the original Avare. (if this is already a thing, please let me know what I am missing.)

Finaly, better documenting how to use the AvareX software, even some short up to date intro videos, would go a long way to getting newcomers to try the software. If you want more revenue, you need more users. You need to make them feel welcome and at home with the software.  

I am not claiming to have all the answers here, or that I even understand the community as I am still new, but perhaps a clear understanding of the future of AvareX would be a good start. Not saying that’s easy to put together, but at least we all know where the users and the developers stand.

Regardless, thank you for all you have done. And I will continue to use Avare (not X quite yet) for as long as I can.

 

APS

[azch...@juno.com]

I am having trouble getting the app to work to donate.  I keep getting kicked out and back to a blank form.  I'll keep working on it.

 

Rick

Tucson

 

On Mon, 15 Dec 2025 11:25:54 -0500 Andrew Sarangan <asar...@gmail.com> writes:

It's sad to hear that donations are less than $100/month. Perhaps we are not soliciting contributions more aggressively. If everyone who uses Avare contributes the equivalent of one Cafe Latte per month, that will surely add up to a significant amount. I am happy to up my monthly contribution, but that will not make a dent unless everyone else does it too. My measure for freeware contribution is at least 25% of the equivalent commercial products. Foreflight with georef plates goes for $250/year, so $60/yr is not an unreasonable contribution for  Avare. I also contribute to Blender foundation and other free software that I regularly use. We are lucky these things exist. 

Yes, Freeware does not put food on the table, but that's not the mission. The mission is to at least break even and create an active user community. I am sure there are many fixed costs involved with the software development that needs to be paid for. 

On Mon, Dec 15, 2025 at 11:09 AM Larry Larson <wire...@gmail.com> wrote:

Unfortunately, that's all too common. Freeware doesn't put food on the table. Sadly another fabulous app will probably get trashed by corporate greed.

LL

On Mon, Dec 15, 2025, 4:08 AM Apps4av Support <app...@gmail.com> wrote:

Your concern is duly noted. You and some others feel second class users who do not have access to all the features. You are forced to pay to become the first class user. You now have an icon that reminds you that you have something less. You cannot claim that it is free. I feel that. 

It's not about open source because all the code is still open source, it's not about data safety because it still not does take your data, it's not about ads because there are still no ads. 

However if you see my side, the donations have dropped under $100 a month average and are going down, barely enough to cover the costs. Long term donators are leaving.

Second, I am getting old. I need to stay interested and relevant, and AI is the future. I find a great opportunity to play with it through the app. If people do not use it then I will remove it. But in the process I might dump the app because it is not interesting anymore, and pick up guitar playing.

Regards,

Zubair

We encourage users to use the Forum for all questions. Any updates to the forum will help other users, who might have similar questions.
Forum: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/apps4av-forum

On Mon, Dec 15, 2025, 12:30 AM GYRO_N5EG <apsco...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am greatly saddened to hear this is the way AvareX is headed.

It was only two years ago I got my license and was thrilled to find a no BS, just works, no login required, no subscription, open-source flight app; perfect for most beginner VFR pilots.  

I have lost count the number of times I have been able to open AvareX and it just works, where my copilot on one of the paid for apps gets locked out of their app, all because the software is requiring an internet connection to verify the login information.

Build a Stratux ADS-B unit, and you have one powerful, reliable setup. (or at least this has been my experience)

Everyday the large corporate powers are jamming AI down our throats, subscriptions, useless features I don’t want to pay for, all while slowly eroding the fundamentals, or locking them behind more pay walls.

I understand at this moment, the AI is behind a subscription; and I understand, at the moment, AvareX is still free for the fundamentals. But I am deeply worried that this is the beginning of the enshittification process of AvareX. The little icon in the corner is proof that it has already begun. How long will it be till I open up AvareX and a big banner pops up each time desperately asking for my subscription to AI, my personal data, and a login just to use the fundamentals. Or eventually a subscription to use the app at all.

I am incredibly thankful for all the work the developers have poured in to this project; I’m sure their heart and soul. However now, I feel the clock has started ticking, and its only a matter of time until I will be forced to turn my back to this app.

Please prove me wrong.  

                            APS

On Saturday, December 13, 2025 at 1:18:21 PM UTC-5 gldre...@gmail.com wrote:

Request: can there be an option to hide the pilot icon for those not using the AI services?

On Friday, December 5, 2025 at 9:02:14 PM UTC-5 app...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi All

AvareX is starting with AI and cloud features in release 72+ on iOS and Android. These features are paid.

This is the first time in 12 years of Apps4Av we are charging for a service. 

While we strive to bring free and open source apps, ads free, this is impossible with AI services because the costs are prohibitive. 

For this reason, all AI services are paid and you will need to register and pay $5 per month for these services. We might add other paid features like fuel prices under this menu when the revenue model is established and we have money to pay for paid third party content.

If you need to try out, we can hand over free accounts for a limited time via reply to this email.

** All current features remain free **

How to AI - 

It is available under Flight Intelligence (Pro Services), and to get to it, you will need to press the "Pilot" incon on the top right on the Map screen. You will then register an account, and then sign up for a monthly subscription.

Initial testing shows a lot of promise. You can upload your logbook, plan, or airplane flight manual, and ask questions like - Am I instrument current? or Give me the minimum altitude for my IFR flight plan, or Describe the fuel system of my airplane.

See the attached picture for AI in action. Possibilities are limitless.

--

Regards,

Apps For Aviators Support,

We encourage users to use the Forum for all questions. Any updates to the forum will help other users, who might have similar questions.
Forum: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/apps4av-forum

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[Rick Mullins]

The donate monthly button in the app didn't work for me. If you click the donate button when it takes you to PayPal you have the option there to donate monthly.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/AABWWDBK6AK6G32J%40smtpout01.vgs.untd.com.

[Brett Friermood]

Like many of the others, I have some mixed feelings on this discussion and some of the comments that have been thrown around in this thread.

I have been a user of Avare and now AvareX since at least the 2016-2017 time frame although I may have installed it prior to then. I may be wrong, but I believe back then Avare was the only EFB that was available for Android or at least that I knew of. It was refreshing to see such a capable app being developed for those of us that didn't have or use Apple products. I have not used any of the other big name EFB's such as Foreflight or Garmin Pilot, but found Avare seemed to provide enough features to do the job for me.

When AvareX was announced I was excited to see what became of it. I liked the idea of a complete rewrite since even though Avare was very capable and configurable it had become somewhat difficult to find certain settings and options. I also looked forward to the multi-platform capability and some of the other features that were planned. It did take me a little while to actually switch to X while waiting for some feature parity, but eventually it reached a point where I much preferred X over legacy Avare. While there were some limitations placed on AvareX for ease of coding, intuitive use, and cross-platform use, etc. that could be classified as "annoying", I found it to generally do what was needed and found workarounds for a couple things I desired.

Recently I was perusing the Github repo and found the changes had been made to expand the puck size for displaying received traffic and were included in the latest release. While this was not a deal breaker that I just had to have, it was one of those limitations that I had quietly hoped would go away and was excited to try it out. I patiently waited for the release to hit the Play store and given the timing around Thanksgiving wasn't too concerned when it didn't arrive for a rather long time. When I was finally able to update it I was somewhat confused to find the installed app a number of versions ahead of the latest release viewable on Github. More concerning was the presence of the Pro Services menu item since I hadn't seen any discussion of changes nor additions in the vein of paid services.

I had been contemplating giving a donation to the developers since I hadn't for a long time, but at the time I held off to see what the future of AvareX looked like. After a little initial shock when this thread dropped learning that AI was now incorporated into the app and paid services were now a thing, I slowly backed away from the cliff and made a donation. The main factors in my decision were that that app is still being developed and even though it's not the most convenient the developers are able to find ways to make requests work. The expanded received traffic puck is a great example of this. While I understood the reasons given for having a small puck and hesitancy to dirty up the interface by adding options all over the place I give credit to the developers for coming up with the very nice solution they did. Secondly, after reading the initial post of this thread it was clear that the addition of paid services and AI was to provide additional functionality that required outside services and associated costs, was something that the developers wanted to spend time on, and was probably the best way to go about doing so while retaining the free and open source model for those of use that just want the normal app.

Now to the crux of the matter. I'll go out on a limb and say that I have no plans of using paid services and AI within AvareX. Just like in other aspects of my life I choose to avoid AI where possible for many reasons, although that is becoming more difficult as companies continue to shove it upon us with no recourse. However, I very much applaud the developers in basically segregating the app and allowing us to choose not to use it.

Regarding Zubair's comment of potentially being done with AvareX, I get it. Any of you that do anything constructive outside of make useless comments on the internet should too. No matter what job your doing, whether paid or volunteer, everyone has a point where it's just not worth it anymore. For some that threshold is low, and higher for others. Sometimes it's just the culmination of certain things collectively adding up on a given day. As an amateur programmer and wearing many other hats, I've been there. Multiple times. I've given up some of those things, others I continue with for one reason or another. Developing AvareX might be one of those things for Zubair.

I very much appreciate having AvareX and sincerely hope development continues.

[Chip Davis]

Well, damn.

Brett just forced me to delete the posting that I had been composing all morning.  His essay was scarily identical to mine: same points, same point of view, same experience with Avare, same attitude toward AI, and same concerns for its developmental direction.  Possibly we share the same background, except that I am retired from being a professional software developer and pilot since the sixties.  I too have been donating (irregularly, admittedly) since 2016.

Zubair richly deserves to follow his muse.  He has more than paid his dues to this community.  With any luck, he has fostered a couple of developers who can shoulder the burden of supporting Classic AvareX so he can pursue whatever interests him.

Having been deeply involved in the development of a large (now open-source) software product (Rexx) I know all too well the issues involved in forking a software project.  It was a herculean task to seamlessly incorporate object-oriented support into what was a well-established and popular procedural programming language.  But sometimes, a fork is the best for the community.

I, too, will wait to see how this turns out and sincerely hope that development of AvareX continues.

-Chip-

[Apps4av Support]

Chip

I do not think there is anyone stepping up to take the app's responsibility.

As I said earlier, I do not plan to stop developing the X app.

Thanks
Zubair

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[Apps4av Support]

Thanks Brett

There is no compulsion to use the AI services. 

For a very long time, I was limited by payment. For example, I could not add Navcan charts because donations will not cover their cost, but Pro services might add Navcan charts.

Similarly fuel prices.

The app has reached the feature level the current donation rate can provide. Any big feature from a 3rd party will require payments beyond donations and that's when Pro services help. AI is one of them, Navcan charts could be another, or fuel.

If you cannot afford or need AI or Navcan charts, you will not need to pay for it.

I am committed to providing a free open source app to everyone. But some people will want to pay to get 3rd party paid services.

Zubair

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[Apps4av Support]

Rick

Which blank form are you talking about? Can you post a picture? Thanks.

On Tue, Dec 16, 2025 at 11:14 AM <azch...@juno.com> wrote:

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/AABWWDBK6AK6G32J%40smtpout01.vgs.untd.com.

[Apps4av Support]

Hi APS

I do not know where folks got the idea that I will dump the app. I said in an email that if I do not find anything interesting to do in the app, I will stop developing it and pick up some other hobby. This is the motto of the app (see apps4av.com website), you do what you like to do for fun. This should be true in general. Why bother if it is not fun?

I am learning AI interface and I am finding it quite fun when combined with flying data. No one has to use AI. But I would not want to stop developing it because some people have issues with AI. It's hidden behind Pro screen and even if someone donates via Pro screen, it will be inactive till you ask it a question. The code is open source so people can check.

The stuff you asked about is already in AvareX, and if not, it will come. Thanks for the suggestions.

Zubair

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/f46f5aa4-8445-4e28-babc-428df6bddeean%40googlegroups.com.

[Apps4av Support]

I get it that people love to fly because they want to do it themselves. If Ai is doing it, then it's not fun anymore.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/CAH2aUe_5xOa6ATARz4GfDv617N9fHe%3DKbJo-SfgBM1E3anF-7Q%40mail.gmail.com.

[Apps4av Support]

I am not dumping the app.

Zubair

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/610c78e8-6dc4-4d13-ab7d-7dc0e5331c72n%40googlegroups.com.

[Apps4av Support]

Thanks Lynn.

Zubair

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/212c4946-8760-459e-a66e-927693d75ad6n%40googlegroups.com.

[Apps4av Support]

TT

You do not need to use AI.

Zubair

[Apps4av Support]

Yes, the app's periodic donations are around $80 per month, and after Pypal fees it's lower.

Monthly fixed cost is around $50 per month.

Sometimes a generous or two donors will donate $100 or more, and I get to buy a phone or a tablet or an ADS-B receiver.  Or I send a gift to a developer (like an Android phone).

I could use more money so Pro services could be free.

[Larry Larson]

I'm just curious. The app has never done this in my airplane so I suspect the environment is the reason.

Flying home on Southwest yesterday.

I used AvareX to keep me busy. The only access my cell phone had to satellites was holding it up against my tiny window.

It was believable most of the time till approach. We landed at DEN and AvareX still showed 11000'.

I will compare data to my Dynon next flight.

LL

[Apps4av Support]

See my reply inline

On Mon, Dec 15, 2025 at 1:20 PM Bradley Spatz <bradle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Your concern is duly noted. 

You seem to have misconstrued the feedback regarding the AI strategy.  The concern is not "feeling second class" or even wanting to "become first class."  That would presume we want AI "features."   No, people are telling you they don't want AI in AvareX.

There is no unanimous feeling. This is definitely one of the feelings. Look, I appreciate how people are passionate about things in Avare, which means I am doing a good job. That people care about many things and are vocal about them is what makes this a healthy product. I have never banned anyone from the forum and I will continue to let people say what they say because of this.

This is probably based on their experiences (like mine) with AI to date.  For an EFB (at least) they think it's silly, unnecessary, and don't share your goal of never having to speak with your (human) CFI.  And they see the costs involved.  Not just a (new) subscription fee, but the lost time/effort on integrating AI into AvareX over the last 3 months -- at the expense of working NOTAMs, in-flight reliability, etc.  And the app itself used to be 3 MB (Avare), then +10x to 30 MB (AvareX), and doubled again with AI integration.

I do not believe that humans have a future on Mars. Earth is a very good place and we should improve it. However, by developing technologies that can take humans to Mars, you can make Earth better by using those technologies here on Earth. In that analogy, I am trying to find something that makes flying safer. Chatting with AI may not be the destination, but what I learn there, will be used in some other innovative way.

Why does the size of the app matter? It's 22 MB on Android. That's the data you use watching a few seconds of Netlfix.

Size for new installs

release 0.75

22.1 MB

 

We all value a simple, reliable, and open-source EFB and can see it in Avare*.  We appreciate the effort behind developing the code and ongoing effort processing the 28/56-day data/chart/plates updates.  But the declining donations and engagement is a referendum on the direction of AvareX (and probably of leaving Avare behind, multi-platform, etc.).

 

People don't want to lose Avare*.  But they see the trajectory we are on and are concerned, as I am.

Your concerns are noted. People do not like change and that's universal.

[Apps4av Support]

Robert 

That's a hypothetical comment. Please read again.

I am not dumping the app. But if things become uninteresting or I die, I will.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/4ce1dea4-fa2a-439a-8a05-7d8a3108c179n%40googlegroups.com.

[Apps4av Support]

Thanks Andrew. 

Your many donations and some periodic ones are more than awesome.

Zubair 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/CAMtwq8-%2BzTVrv1Jk6tUQ9Sj6-UgFjM0kNgaLHB_5FUK%3DSzUNEg%40mail.gmail.com.

[David Lewis]

I'm a long time user of legacy Avare, but loving how AvareX is developing. I really like the "X" interface and the innovative functionality. As a planning tool AvareX is just awesome. I've signed up for Pro Services not so much for any AI access, but as a convenient means to provide financial support. However, I don't utilize "X" in-flight due to its current inability for an autopilot connection via BT. Prior to the legacy app's direct incorporation of the autopilot function, that capability was provided by a separate companion app. Has there been any discussion in the development group regarding a similar solution for adding autopilot connectivity to AvareX?

DL

[Apps4av Support]

Hi David

The autopilot was added to X a while back. No one reported the use? 
What's your autopilot setup? 

Thanks

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/ed6beceb-a2f3-4d0c-b854-a5aabc9ff92fn%40googlegroups.com.

[David Lewis]

Interesting  . . .  I’ve seen no reports that the functionality was added, or how to use it. That it has been addressed is great news and I look forward to getting it working in my installation.

I have the AP incorporated in the Dynon D180 and controlled through a Dynon AP74 auxiliary module. The AP74 is interfaced to my current Android tablet running legacy Avare through a BT to RS232 converter. System works great. I know the BT has a solid connection to the AP74 because the Avare flight data line background at the top of the screen turns blue. Operation has been flawless.

Where do I look to access the “X” AP functionality? I’m not seeing any indication of it in the current versions of “X” loaded on my iOS devices used for flight planning. Perhaps it is an Android version only capability?

DL

[Tim Scofield]

I've found that GPS doesn't work that well when trying to pick up satellites out the widow of an airliner. You can only see a few satellites and they are generally in the same direction which reduces accuracy. When the plane turns you lose those satellites and the receiver has to acquire and lock onto new ones. 

The "GPS Status" app (and some other GPS apps) will show you your GPS status - acquisition status, location, altitude,  number of satellites in view , time of last fix, and your accuracy (Dilution of Precision, HDOP, VDOP). I  believe Avare or AvareX will only provide you with location altitude and speed

Tim

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