Issue / problems / suggestions for Avare app.

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hello everyone.
This is more of a suggestion / question than an issue regarding Plates Load timing / sequence. At this time we can only load the Airport Plate / s after you go to Find > airport you want than press Plate I will test some more but it seems like on my devices, see systems specs below, is the only way to do it. It will not load at your Start / Destination airports unless you go to Find again, even if your airport is in your flight Plan.
Can we allow a load / activate a Plate when we are at / close to the airport we are at? This will give us the option to use the Plate without having to reload the flight plan. TV

Avare Ver.:            5.3.8 beta

Avare installation: Default location / SD Card, not in Ext. SD Card.

Hardware:              Samsung 10 In. and    7 In. tablets

OS:                         4.1.1                  and    4.1.2

Mem / Storage:      8 / 64GB            and    16/64GB

Charts:                    LAX TAC, Sectional and World CG-18, California plates etc.

Test environment: MSFSX

Verify duplicated:  Yes.

Steps to duplicate.

Create Flight Plan, position at Start airport, Chart / position acquired, press Plate you get a Blank / black screen. If you go to find and enter the start / present airport name select it from the list and press Plate the plate gets loaded. TV

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi again.
It looks like I cannot edit the previous post and I wanted to see if the idea of loading the Plate by using Near algorithm may work? TV

[Zubair Khan]

Many people have asked about it, and I think I we can tackle this next.

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[Rich Freeman]

On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 7:07 AM, Zubair Khan <gove...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Many people have asked about it, and I think I we can tackle this next.

A few other variations on this in case they aren't obvious.

The last time I checked you could only display plates for your
"destination." When flying a flight plan the destination is set to
the next waypoint. That makes it very hard to pull up a STAR/etc
which might be relevant several waypoints before the final
destination.

This also means that a SID for the departure airport isn't available
after takeoff (or before, depending on when the software decides to
advance to the next waypoint).

It seems to me that charts should always be accessible for the
departure and arrival airports, and being able to plan an alternate
probably would make sense as well, though that obviously is an
addition to the plan logic.

Rich

[Zubair Khan]

Will add a drop down so you will be able to choose any airport for its plates on the plates screen itself from the Plan. When you change the destination, it will go back to showing plates for that destination.

--
Zubair Khan
apps4av.com
zk4u.blogspot.com
Sudbury, MA 01776

[Rich Freeman]

On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 8:04 AM, Zubair Khan <gove...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Will add a drop down so you will be able to choose any airport for its
> plates on the plates screen itself from the Plan. When you change the
> destination, it will go back to showing plates for that destination.

Will this be free-text only? It seems like it would be painful to
have to re-type the destination airport code every time you pass a
waypoint, unless you only use Avare for short mostly-direct routes.
Plus, as far as I can tell Avare doesn't handle airway routing so that
means there would be a need to define more waypoints in a route.

Rich

[N5357K]

How about instead of a drop down on the plates screen, add a Plates button anywhere you can long press an airport?

Rich

[Zubair Khan]

Will come up with something similar to these suggestions.

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi Zubair and everyone.
One possibility may be to just load the Near airport plate when Plate is pressed, treat it as a chart, regardless of the position / location and have the pilot / operator press Plate again when close to the airport, press Map to go back.
 Ideally, would be an Option to Auto load plate when within the Plate area and you are at the Destination?  The last option maybe more difficult to implement and the ability to display Plate close / Near may be sufficient?
 I think the present Find / Plate should also maintained, left as is, it's a very useful feature.
Possible flow may be Press Plate, Display Near plate, Not what you want? Press Find choose Airport.. as we have it now? TV

[N5357K]

Zubair,

Would you be interested in having a discussion regarding this (probably in a bigger context)?

I'm just starting to use Avare and am interested in doing development.  I've messed around a little just trying to get familiar with the application and I'm having a hard time getting my head around some of the UI design.  I don't want to come in and say your doing it all wrong - I'm very impressed with what you have now and I realize you can't please everyone, but...

I feel like the Plates and A/FD should not always be tied to the Destination.  A plan seems to be a series of Destinations, instead of several waypoints with a single destination.  If I enter a flight plan with a couple VOR's and an ending airport I can't view the plates or A/FD of the airport until I've cycled through all the waypoints OR I go to simulation mode, then set the destination to the airport, then to get back to my plan it seems to involve several clicks.  Other times I want to keep my plan in place, but as I'm flying along I might want to look at the airport info for an airport near me (like look up a FSS freq), it seems like I should be able to do that easier than I do now.

I might be using this wrong, or just not used to it yet (I'm coming from ForeFlight).  I do want to get involved whether any of these changes are made or not.

Do you have a separate email list for developers to discuss things or is that all done in this forum?  Is there a list of feature requests/bugs?  I have some ideas I'd like to work on, but think it would be best to start on something small first.

Thanks,
Rich

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi Rich and everyone.
I was going to wait a while but after  seeing your message I decided to post this and see what others think.
There is a GitHub communication procedure but I am not sure how it works, let's wait for Zubair. TV

Hello everyone.

I am sure every Real World pilot  knows that none of the hand held devices are FAA approved and cannot and should not be used as a primary Navigation instruments, but they can be very useful as back up / additional aid.

Avare is very easy to use and can provide a lot of information very efficiently, and that is it's main goal and attribute. We may be able to improve it by adding a GoTo and an easier / more efficient procedure to get the Plate information (see Plate / s Operation, in ver.5.3.8., below as is implemented presently). That is the reason for this somewhat lengthy post. Your input and comments are appreciated.

 

We may be able to simplify and maximize the efficiency of Plate if we Select Near / est on the first Plate press. I am probably missing something but the developers can better evaluate and see if we can get by if we go to Near /est on the first Plate and leave everything else As Is?

 

Plates have great amount of information, frequencies, Rwy Lengths Dirs. / Taxi way, etc., information, which really you should get before you get to the airport / go. But if you are in flight what is desired is efficiency/ minimum amount of work / time invested to get access to it.

 

What is the best Logic / Flow is what fits a typical Flight.

1-VFR with Flight following no Flight Plan: Get Wx, Get the Information needed (Plate) Frequencies, ATIS, Clearance, Ground, Tower, Departure, ATC...

 

This would imply / require that the first Plate press / request to give me the information at the Airport (nearest to get started?), second Plate next in line Near+1 etc. to 3 or 5 loop?

(If not what you want / need Press Find or Near and choose your airport, available presently).

2-VFR with Flight Plan on file /ed.

Get Wx, Get the Information needed (Plate) Frequencies, ATIS, Clearance, Ground, Tower, Departure, Activate flight plan, ATC...

For this case the above flow / logic works just as well.

IFR flight Plan basically follows the same steps but you have to be prepared for Missed, get access / information to an Alternate. As it stand right now the Logic will not easily give you access to an airport that is Not in the flight Plan.

In many cases, VFR or IFR you get deviations / amendments in this case what would be nice is to have a GoTo your new / temporary fix / waypoint without having to change your destination.

An auto Plate load when you are in plate area, either in the Preferences or just seamless

may work but it can be confusing for first time users if the happen to be / live within the Plate area since there may not be Chart that first shows up?

 

The goal is to get access to information, Chart, Plate etc as efficiently, minimum key strokes / presses,  as possible what we should try and find out what the best / most efficient logic would be to implement it.

If No Active plan.

1-Plate>Display Near (3x)Over 3 Prompt for Find?

 

Plate / s Operation, in ver.5.3.8.

Plates present logic / flow.

No Active Plan> Press plate> Must go find enter name Airport / Destination>or Near and choose> Plate loads Multiple presses?. Time consuming.

If Active Plan> press plate will show present Active / part of the Plan location (Start airport?)> get close to second airport / past the first airport / waypoint > Plate displays second etc. Cannot go back to former / previous without going to Find / Near.

 

If No Active Plan and select Destination (Press and Hold add to destination)> Plate displays Destination cannot see present airport (i.e. Start Sna enter LGB as Destination)

If No active Plan no Destination>Plate prompts for Find.

Plate>Near>Tap airport>Plate displays.

TV

[Zubair Khan]

Hi Rich

I agree with what you say. Please see inline.

I don't want to come in and say your doing it all wrong - I'm very impressed with what you have now and I realize you can't please everyone, but...

Please say what you feel. However, some context: You can make a product after gathering all the requirements, making a design, and then coding. Or you can make a simple toy, give it to people to comment and evolve it based on what people want. Avare is later approach.

 

I feel like the Plates and A/FD should not always be tied to the Destination. 

No they should not be. 6 months ago, avare did not have flight planning capability, neither we thought about adding it. Then it appeared suddenly when a user threatended to move to another app. Since then, there is not much done on Plan, and that user probably is already gone.

 

A plan seems to be a series of Destinations, instead of several waypoints with a single destination.  If I enter a flight plan with a couple VOR's and an ending airport I can't view the plates or A/FD of the airport until I've cycled through a for an airport near me (like look up a FSS freq), it seems like I should be able to do that easier than I do now.

I agree. Lets change it. As I said, Plan is not very well integrated with the rest of the app. All the infromation in the Plan can be brought through to the other parts of the app.

 

I might be using this wrong, or just not used to it yet (I'm coming from ForeFlight).  I do want to get involved whether any of these changes are made or not.

You set the standards high. But nothing stopping us to get beyond that other than lack of human time. If the team grows, it becomes easier. GLad you joined. However, we will always listen to users before adding a big UI change. And what you say jives with what users want. So lets do it. Start with Plates integration with Plan, or any touch point on Map.

 

Do you have a separate email list for developers to discuss things or is that all done in this forum?  Is there a list of feature requests/bugs?  I have some ideas I'd like to work on, but think it would be best to start on something small first.

Yes, I will add you to the developers list.

Thanks

Z

 

Thanks,
Rich

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[Richard Stigall]

Zubair,

Thanks, I'm excited to get started.  As I said I've been playing around a bit - I'm buying a Nexus 7 tablet tomorrow - I've been running in the Emulator and my really old phone so far. 

You stated "

So lets do it. 

Start with Plates integration with Plan, or any touch point on Map.".  I'd like to tackle that project as a start if you're ok with that and then possibly move onto a revamp of the Plan page.  That's actually something I'm interested a bit in.

Rich

[Rich Freeman]

On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 10:25 PM, Richard Stigall <rsti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Start with Plates integration with Plan, or any touch point on Map.". I'd
> like to tackle that project as a start if you're ok with that and then
> possibly move onto a revamp of the Plan page. That's actually something I'm
> interested a bit in.

It makes sense to be able to long-press on an airport and in the
pop-up menu there would be an option to display plates.

The plates tab could still exist and I would think that it would make
sense to be able to quickly display the plates for any airport in the
plan. Maybe have two side-by-side drop-downs at the top in place of
the single drop-down. The first would select the airport (defaults to
destination, or last-selected), and the second would list charts for
that airport.

I would think that a plan could contain several airports. A return to
the departure airport is of course an option. You could also have
alternate airports.

If we really want to revamp the flight plan capability we should also
consider supporting airways. Right now you can only navigate
fix-to-fix, which means if you're following a long route with airways
you need to enter a lot of fixes. What I don't know is whether airway
data is readily available. It is obviously more complex as well. On
the other hand, the good thing about that part is that it might be a
good place for somebody to start if they aren't too familiar with the
Android APIs - other than maybe reading from a database it would be
fairly self-contained code.

Rich

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hello Everyone.

Avare Ver.:            5.3.8

Avare installation: Default location / SD Card, not in Ext. SD Card.

Hardware:              Samsung 10 In. and    7 In. tablets

OS:                         4.1.1                  and    4.1.2

Mem / Storage:      8 / 64GB            and    16/64GB

Charts:                    LAX TAC, Sectional, World CG-18, CA plates

Test environment:  MSFSX, with Avare preferences GPS in Short GPS Update Period, this setting may be irrelevant.

Verify duplicated:  Yes.

Short description:    Tracks do not get recorded while Plate /s  is displayed.

Activate Flight plan, in my case KSNA, KLGB, KTOA. When near LGB press Plate, plate is being displayed. After landing, takeoff on the way to TOA  turn Plate Off, no log points generated, see pic.

@ Rich, let me know when / if you have something to test on your mod? TV

[Richard Stigall]

TV,

I see the issue with not recording tracks while a Plate is selected - it's actually worse.  I don't believe the FlightTimer, Odometer or TrackRecording will get updates unless the map is selected.

I see a couple ways of fixing it, but probably need to wait for another developer to jump on this one as I'm not sure of the best way to fix it (I'm still figuring out the app, and Java).

I just thought I'd let you know I did reproduce it.

I'll also let you know when I have something ready regarding Plate access.

Rich

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi Rich and everyone.

I see the issue with not recording tracks while a Plate is selected - it's actually worse.  I don't believe the FlightTimer, Odometer or TrackRecording will get updates unless the map is selected.

 

OK I looked at the code and noticed the same thing. No big issue, what we want to do is compile all the things / issues that we find, assign priority, and resolve one at the time. The same way we approach IFR / flying.
No need to interrupt what you are doing / get side tracked. TV

 

[Zubair Khan]

+Ron

Report: Flightitmer, Odo, and Tracks dont update when not in LocationView. Should be done from the service.

Thanks

[Zubair Khan]

Airways will be supported soon. So should take into consideration. Richard (S) is going to take up the Plan feature, lets see how we come up with a better Plan screen.

[Ron Walker]

Yep - I'm on it.

On Sat, 2014-02-08 at 08:01 -0500, Zubair Khan wrote:
> +Ron
>
>
> Report: Flightitmer, Odo, and Tracks dont update when not in
> LocationView. Should be done from the service.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 1:55 AM, Richard Stigall <rsti...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> TV,
>
>
> I see the issue with not recording tracks while a Plate is
> selected - it's actually worse. I don't believe the
> FlightTimer, Odometer or TrackRecording will get updates
> unless the map is selected.
>
>
> I see a couple ways of fixing it, but probably need to wait
> for another developer to jump on this one as I'm not sure of
> the best way to fix it (I'm still figuring out the app, and
> Java).
>
>
> I just thought I'd let you know I did reproduce it.
>
>
> I'll also let you know when I have something ready regarding
> Plate access.
>
>
> Rich
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 10:27 PM, <fly...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello Everyone.
>
>
> Avare Ver.: 5.3.8
>
>
>

> emails from it, send an email to apps4av-forum
> +unsub...@googlegroups.com.