Avarex additional feedback.
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Eric Jacobsen
Jun 5, 2024, 4:28:43 PM6/5/24
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I've been an Avare user for many years, both VFR and IFR, and generally like it a lot. It is pretty much the only EFB I use, flying multiple aircraft about 130 hrs/year, both VFR and IFR, almost always cross-country. I flew with Avarex last week and found it unusable in its current state. I tried, but it's just not there. It seems to me to be a heavily de-featured version of Avare with a crippled user interface.
In general, I find it provides less information and is more difficult to use. Trying to figure out how to configure something or find some information that is not readily available is time consuming and distracting, which are more or less the opposite of what you want from an EFB.
For me there were a number of issues, but the most notable I've listed below. Some are duplicates from what's been reported previously:
1. The numbers are missing from the distance rings. I use those a lot, including the 2 mile ring, which seems to be gone.
2. The barber pole and dashed direction indicators are gone from the position indicator. I use those a lot, too.
3. The map tiling appears to be broken. When I zoomed in all the way, which I do a lot to see text, details, etc., the map (sectional) disappeared completely. Traffic was still there, but the map was gone. During flight there were times when the map only appeared in a few scattered square patches, and times where big patches were missing in the map. This was one of the things that made it essentially unusable for flight. This was on a Galaxy Tab A8.
1. The numbers are missing from the distance rings. I use those a lot, including the 2 mile ring, which seems to be gone.
2. The barber pole and dashed direction indicators are gone from the position indicator. I use those a lot, too.
3. The map tiling appears to be broken. When I zoomed in all the way, which I do a lot to see text, details, etc., the map (sectional) disappeared completely. Traffic was still there, but the map was gone. During flight there were times when the map only appeared in a few scattered square patches, and times where big patches were missing in the map. This was one of the things that made it essentially unusable for flight. This was on a Galaxy Tab A8.
4. I fly with two tablets, one on a knee pad, and this is the one that I was trying AvareX on. It kept switching between landscape and portrait mode. I couldn't find a way to lock it in either orientation (which goes to the menu usability). This was another of the things that made it unusable for me.
5. There is a menu button, but it seems to dead-end on proving any utility for configuration, which one would expect to find there. There doesn't seem to be any easy route to configuring things or finding things. This is a big obstacle to usability.
6. I fly from a very busy airport, and there was a lot of traffic around when I started Avarex before I started the aircraft. It would not shut up about nearby traffic, and I couldn't find any way to stop (silence) the audio alerts without disabling the tablet audio completely. This is another configurability issue, I think. This was another issue that made it essentially unusable, and I had to stop it until I could try again after getting
airborne away from traffic.
7. The flight planning functions are very clunky. The controls are not easy to find, and saving, loading, and editing an existing plan still seems very difficult to figure out. I think a tool should be much easier to use.
8. Long ago I regularly used FltPlan Go, and the main reason I stopped using it was that in turbulence a piece of clothing or the tail of my seatbelt would occassionally tap the back button twice and exit the program. To me that's a bad enough thing, especially at a bad moment, that I stopped using it. Avare has the additional Exit? Y/N that pops up once in a while if the back button gets hit inadvertently and prevents that. Avarex is back to exiting on a double-tap, which brings back the danger of it just being gone when you need it.
9. I'll +1 from other comments that the obstacles in Avare are useful. Not having them removes useful information. Having them configurable (like a lot of things) means the people who find them useful can have them and the people who don't aren't burdened with them.
10. Generally configurability is good in an EFB, and it is in Avare, but it seems to be heavily deprecated in Avarex, which probably creates a barrier to utility for a lot of people like me.
Just thoughts so far on only being able to use it a little bit during a flight. I wish I could have tested it more, but I didn't find it usable in its current state.
7. The flight planning functions are very clunky. The controls are not easy to find, and saving, loading, and editing an existing plan still seems very difficult to figure out. I think a tool should be much easier to use.
8. Long ago I regularly used FltPlan Go, and the main reason I stopped using it was that in turbulence a piece of clothing or the tail of my seatbelt would occassionally tap the back button twice and exit the program. To me that's a bad enough thing, especially at a bad moment, that I stopped using it. Avare has the additional Exit? Y/N that pops up once in a while if the back button gets hit inadvertently and prevents that. Avarex is back to exiting on a double-tap, which brings back the danger of it just being gone when you need it.
9. I'll +1 from other comments that the obstacles in Avare are useful. Not having them removes useful information. Having them configurable (like a lot of things) means the people who find them useful can have them and the people who don't aren't burdened with them.
10. Generally configurability is good in an EFB, and it is in Avare, but it seems to be heavily deprecated in Avarex, which probably creates a barrier to utility for a lot of people like me.
Just thoughts so far on only being able to use it a little bit during a flight. I wish I could have tested it more, but I didn't find it usable in its current state.
Rich Klarich
Jun 5, 2024, 5:08:42 PM6/5/24
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Same experience, same Avare vs AvareX background, iPad Air 4th Geb IOS 15.5.1. Great feedback! Worked fine with Stratux on Port 4000, could not toggle to port 43211 to try a Skyradar DX that feeds the EFIS to compare.
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Apps4av Support
Jun 5, 2024, 6:31:54 PM6/5/24
to Eric Jacobsen, Apps4Av Forum
Thanks for the feedback. We don't have test department so keep using X and providing more feedback.
Tiles disappearing mid flight was reported also by someone else and then it was found to be a user error as they did not download the chart for that area. X will zoom and show you preview tiles so it seems like it has the chart to some level.
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Suzanne C
Jun 5, 2024, 10:22:24 PM6/5/24
to Eric Jacobsen, Apps4Av Forum
Eric,
Thanks for sharing your experience!
I echo many of your points as well. Today was the first time I had a chance to use it in flight, and while Avare-X wasted on time recognizing traffic, it was very distracting while conducting the pre-start/pre-flight brief that I ended up turning down the volume.
Automatic features are nice, but I would also appreciate the option to be able to configure things if I don't want to go with the 'always on' defaults.
Would it be helpful if the Dev team surveyed or polled the userbase regarding options/features?? Keep/Chuck/DidNotUse?
Happy flying, everyone!!!
c!
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Apps4av Support
Jun 6, 2024, 7:40:09 AM6/6/24
to Suzanne C, Eric Jacobsen, Apps4Av Forum
There will be the ability to silence audible traffic by clicking on it.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/CANLi%2BQR-CyW4YoZ%3Djo-Fjgiq2hgT%2BdmLEjePRczAT3myPE-6uQ%40mail.gmail.com.
Regards,
Apps For Aviators Support,Forum: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/apps4av-forum
Apps4av Support
Jun 6, 2024, 7:47:29 AM6/6/24
to Eric Jacobsen, Apps4Av Forum
I do not use obstacles. I thought I would use them but I dont. I look outside, and for planning, I look at the map. They are never a problem in instrument conditions.
However, since 2 people are very vocal about having them, I will probably add them. Remember that engineering is about tradeoffs. One side you are concerned about not being able to run the app on slower devices, on the other hand, you are asking for obstacles that require a database query every few seconds. How does Avare do it? Through repeated database queries. Avare also does not do a lot that X does. It's a tradeoff and you have to choose what you REALLY need or you lose something (or make it unusable) something that you need.
On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 4:28 PM Eric Jacobsen <ejaco...@cox.net> wrote:
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Apps4av Support
Jun 6, 2024, 8:13:42 AM6/6/24
to Eric Jacobsen, Apps4Av Forum
I disagree that planning is clunky. There was a lot of time spent on it. You need to try it more. You are just not used to it. It is vastly superior to the legacy app Plan.
You may be seeing a database issue that will be fixed. If you are entering single line plans then use , . ! to distinguish between navaids, airports, and fixes. And do not use K.
On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 4:28 PM Eric Jacobsen <ejaco...@cox.net> wrote:
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Apps4av Support
Jun 6, 2024, 9:00:04 AM6/6/24
to Eric Jacobsen, Apps4Av Forum
Numbers on distance rings will be added soon.
On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 4:28 PM Eric Jacobsen <ejaco...@cox.net> wrote:
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David Farleman
Jun 6, 2024, 9:41:08 AM6/6/24
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I am also one that does NOT use obstacles. If obstacles are added, will there be an option to turn them off, hopefully resulting in AvareX not querying the database every few seconds?
I like the flight planning with AvareX. There was a small learning curve with it, but approaching AvareX as a new EFB as opposed to a continuation of legacy Avare helped with lessoning the learning curve.
Will silencing audible traffic silence a target you click on, or will it be an "all silence" for all targets?
Much appreciated,
Dave
Apps4av Support
Jun 6, 2024, 10:23:15 AM6/6/24
to David Farleman, Shane Lenagh, Apps4Av Forum
Dave
How do you prefer turning off audio? @Shane Lenagh
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Apps4av Support
Jun 6, 2024, 10:25:26 AM6/6/24
to David Farleman, Apps4Av Forum
BTW winds aloft is added for the next release.
On Thu, Jun 6, 2024, 9:41 AM David Farleman <dfar...@gmail.com> wrote:
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Jeffrey Ross
Jun 6, 2024, 10:31:08 AM6/6/24
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Here's a thought...
First have the aircraft that is triggering the audio alert highlighted, eg turn the aircraft symbol red?
I think the ability to completely turn off the audio for traffic alerts should always be there, in some aircraft it is not needed.
If the alerts are desired, the user can touch the aircraft to silence the alert until that aircraft is no longer a threat but leave the alerting for any other aircraft that is deemed a threat. Once the threat aircraft is no longer a threat the audio alert resets and should the aircraft become a threat again the audio will announce it as such.
Jeff
First have the aircraft that is triggering the audio alert highlighted, eg turn the aircraft symbol red?
I think the ability to completely turn off the audio for traffic alerts should always be there, in some aircraft it is not needed.
If the alerts are desired, the user can touch the aircraft to silence the alert until that aircraft is no longer a threat but leave the alerting for any other aircraft that is deemed a threat. Once the threat aircraft is no longer a threat the audio alert resets and should the aircraft become a threat again the audio will announce it as such.
Jeff
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Jeffrey Ross
Jun 6, 2024, 10:35:18 AM6/6/24
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I too am one that does not use the obstacles in Avare. With that
said I can understand the desire to use it as I'm sure there are
some very large towers in the US, just none large enough to be
considered a problem in my neck of the woods. Even still I do have
TAWS in the aircraft and often coming into land I'll get obstacle
alerts if I'm flying a slightly wide pattern as the TAWS is supposed
to automatically inhibit alerts within an area around the airport.
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Eric Jacobsen
Jun 6, 2024, 10:44:52 AM6/6/24
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What would one click on to silence a traffic alert? This pic isn't great, but shows "the traffic" that was causing all the alerts. Making somebody click on all of those to stop alerts does not sound practical.
BTW, this also shows how the map (sectional) disappeared after zooming in. The traffic is still there and there's a little bit of a TFR still at the top of the screen. The screen orientation has also flipped to portrait, and I'm trying to use it in landscape since it's on a knee strap.
Things just need to be configurable. If the app is built solely to the preferences of the developers it's just going to shrink the user base. Perhaps that's the goal, I don't know.
BTW, this also shows how the map (sectional) disappeared after zooming in. The traffic is still there and there's a little bit of a TFR still at the top of the screen. The screen orientation has also flipped to portrait, and I'm trying to use it in landscape since it's on a knee strap.
Things just need to be configurable. If the app is built solely to the preferences of the developers it's just going to shrink the user base. Perhaps that's the goal, I don't know.
David Farleman
Jun 6, 2024, 11:47:39 AM6/6/24
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A toggle for all alerts on/off would work for me. That said I like Jeff's thoughts where you can toggle all alerts on/off, and if alerts are on you can touch the threat aircraft to silence that target.
-Dave
Apps4av Support
Jun 6, 2024, 11:50:23 AM6/6/24
to Eric Jacobsen, Apps4Av Forum
Did you install the app from GitHub?
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Eric Jacobsen
Jun 6, 2024, 7:02:59 PM6/6/24
to Apps4Av Forum
No, from the Play Store, then installed charts, etc.
gldre...@gmail.com
Jun 6, 2024, 9:09:36 PM6/6/24
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Here are some things that work for me regarding the main drawbacks you mention. (4) If I turn off auto-rotate on my device, AvareX freezes its orientation. (6) Muting my device is acceptable to me; there's nothing I want to hear from it while I'm running AvareX. (8) My yoke-mounted tablet doesn't get many accidental back-swipes (there's no back button), and it's easy enough for me to re-enter the app if it does exit (it keeps its state while in the background). I also have the option of "pinning" the app, which keeps it from exiting unless I enter a password.
Regarding (3), I haven't encountered that problem no matter how far I zoom in or out on a sectional or other chart type. I'm running version 0.0.11+11 (Android).
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