Samsung Tab A randomly intermittently not acquiring GPS, satellites flashing red, unable to use Bluetooth GPS for Avare
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Dan Ferrell
Jun 7, 2017, 9:11:41 PM6/7/17
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Hello everybody,
First, I want to say I really am pleased with Avare. I have used it on my Samsung Galaxy S5 smartphone and then I got a Dragon Touch E70 tablet later. Avare works absolutely fine on both of these devices while flying. I only used my E70 for Avare and flying. Unfortunately, my E70 battery has started failing, so I bought another tablet that has internal GPS and Glonass. My new tablet is the Samsung Galaxy Tab A 7" 8GB, model SM-T280.
I'm reluctant to post this asking for help, because I've already spent about 5 hours combing through the Apps4Av Forum trying to solve my problem and experimenting, and I fear this post is going to get long, so this is my last ditch effort. I have 6 days left to return this item. I only bought the Tab A to use for flying while using Avare. If I can't get it to work, I'm returning it. So, here's the problem:
The Samsung Galaxy Tab A 7" is not consistent at acquiring GPS satellites. I do not leave the tablet screen on all the time in order to conserve battery. I will have Avare running, GPS will be acquired, I'll be on the Map screen, and everything will be functioning fine. Then, I press the power button to turn the screen off, and some time later (could be 5 mins, could be 30 mins -- I fly about 8 hours a day), I'll press the power button to turn the screen on, sometimes it will acquire position within 3 seconds, sometimes it will take about a minute, and sometimes it will not acquire at all (one time I waited 10 minutes for it and then gave up). I've learned if I'm on Map, and I switch to a different screen, then back to the Map, the tablet's location icon on the tablet (the upside down teardrop shaped pin) will sometimes come back and I'll get GPS. Other times the location icon will not return.
I've tried all three of the tablet's Locating methods (GPS and Wi-Fi, Wi-Fi only, GPS only) multiple times. I've changed all of Avare's GPS settings (Short GPS Update Period, Warn GPS Disabled, GPS Position Source (All Available, Internal Only, Avare IO Module Only)) multiple times. I've tried every combination between all of the aforementioned options (I have a lot of time at cruise).
I've exited the Avare program entirely and restarted it in order to get GPS location. This usually works, but I don't want to have to shut the program down and restart every time I want to use it.
I've tried turning on Wi-Fi (even though there is no Wi-Fi when I'm flying), and this does NOT help. The tablet does not have 3G/4G. It is Wi-Fi only.
I've manually turned Location off an on in the tablet's settings, and success is inconsistent.
------->>>>>>When the tablet won't acquire GPS, if I look under Tools, the satellites are flashing red. What does that mean? <<<<<<------------
Somewhere in this forum it was said that the GPS chips in most tablets are not necessarily the best ones, so a tablet's internal GPS chipset might work intermittently.
------->>>>>>Does anyone think there is a manufacturer problem with the GPS chips in my brand new Samsung Galaxy Tab A 7"? <<<<<<------------
------->>>>>>Does anyone here use the same Samsung Galaxy Tab A 7" I do and have you had these GPS problems? <<<<<<------------
^^^^^^^^^^
John Wiley -- I saw your post about the Samsung Galaxy Tab A 8.0 tablet you own. Has it had a similar problem acquiring GPS, or does it work the majority of the time? My Tab A fails 90% of the time after I turn the screen back on.
^^^^^^^^^^
I used the Avare External I/O Plugin app and bluetooth connected my Samsung Tab A to an external GPS receiver my friend had (Dual brand). I tested this while driving, and Avare was functioning properly. I have not had the chance to fly with the external GPS receiver, so I do not know how it will work in the air. However, I don't want to have to buy an external GPS receiver if I don't have to.
So, I tried the Bluetooth GPS for Avare app and tried to connect my Samsung S5 smartphone to the Tab A in order to use my Android smartphone as the location sensor. It would not work. At step 5 is when it failed. Here are the instructions so you don't have to go look them up:
First, I want to say I really am pleased with Avare. I have used it on my Samsung Galaxy S5 smartphone and then I got a Dragon Touch E70 tablet later. Avare works absolutely fine on both of these devices while flying. I only used my E70 for Avare and flying. Unfortunately, my E70 battery has started failing, so I bought another tablet that has internal GPS and Glonass. My new tablet is the Samsung Galaxy Tab A 7" 8GB, model SM-T280.
I'm reluctant to post this asking for help, because I've already spent about 5 hours combing through the Apps4Av Forum trying to solve my problem and experimenting, and I fear this post is going to get long, so this is my last ditch effort. I have 6 days left to return this item. I only bought the Tab A to use for flying while using Avare. If I can't get it to work, I'm returning it. So, here's the problem:
The Samsung Galaxy Tab A 7" is not consistent at acquiring GPS satellites. I do not leave the tablet screen on all the time in order to conserve battery. I will have Avare running, GPS will be acquired, I'll be on the Map screen, and everything will be functioning fine. Then, I press the power button to turn the screen off, and some time later (could be 5 mins, could be 30 mins -- I fly about 8 hours a day), I'll press the power button to turn the screen on, sometimes it will acquire position within 3 seconds, sometimes it will take about a minute, and sometimes it will not acquire at all (one time I waited 10 minutes for it and then gave up). I've learned if I'm on Map, and I switch to a different screen, then back to the Map, the tablet's location icon on the tablet (the upside down teardrop shaped pin) will sometimes come back and I'll get GPS. Other times the location icon will not return.
I've tried all three of the tablet's Locating methods (GPS and Wi-Fi, Wi-Fi only, GPS only) multiple times. I've changed all of Avare's GPS settings (Short GPS Update Period, Warn GPS Disabled, GPS Position Source (All Available, Internal Only, Avare IO Module Only)) multiple times. I've tried every combination between all of the aforementioned options (I have a lot of time at cruise).
I've exited the Avare program entirely and restarted it in order to get GPS location. This usually works, but I don't want to have to shut the program down and restart every time I want to use it.
I've tried turning on Wi-Fi (even though there is no Wi-Fi when I'm flying), and this does NOT help. The tablet does not have 3G/4G. It is Wi-Fi only.
I've manually turned Location off an on in the tablet's settings, and success is inconsistent.
------->>>>>>When the tablet won't acquire GPS, if I look under Tools, the satellites are flashing red. What does that mean? <<<<<<------------
Somewhere in this forum it was said that the GPS chips in most tablets are not necessarily the best ones, so a tablet's internal GPS chipset might work intermittently.
------->>>>>>Does anyone think there is a manufacturer problem with the GPS chips in my brand new Samsung Galaxy Tab A 7"? <<<<<<------------
------->>>>>>Does anyone here use the same Samsung Galaxy Tab A 7" I do and have you had these GPS problems? <<<<<<------------
^^^^^^^^^^
John Wiley -- I saw your post about the Samsung Galaxy Tab A 8.0 tablet you own. Has it had a similar problem acquiring GPS, or does it work the majority of the time? My Tab A fails 90% of the time after I turn the screen back on.
^^^^^^^^^^
I used the Avare External I/O Plugin app and bluetooth connected my Samsung Tab A to an external GPS receiver my friend had (Dual brand). I tested this while driving, and Avare was functioning properly. I have not had the chance to fly with the external GPS receiver, so I do not know how it will work in the air. However, I don't want to have to buy an external GPS receiver if I don't have to.
So, I tried the Bluetooth GPS for Avare app and tried to connect my Samsung S5 smartphone to the Tab A in order to use my Android smartphone as the location sensor. It would not work. At step 5 is when it failed. Here are the instructions so you don't have to go look them up:
Installation
Primary Device (running and displaying Avare):
• Install Avare
• Install the Avare External I/O Plugin app
Secondary Device (providing GPS reception):
• Install this Bluetooth GPS For Avare app
Setup
1. On Secondary Device(s), launch this Bluetooth GPS For Avare app.
2. On Primary Device, launch the Avare External I/O Plugin app, and then the Avare app.
3. On Secondary Device(s), click the Enable Pairing button from this Bluetooth GPS For Avare app.
4. On Primary Device, Pair with Secondary Device using that device’s Bluetooth settings.
5. On Primary Device, launch the Avare External I/O Plugin app, and
connect to Secondary Device(s) using the External Bluetooth GPS menu.
6. On Primary Device, start Avare and navigate.
At Setup step 4 my Tab A pairs with my S5 smartphone.
At Setup step 5 my Tab A said:
Failed! Socket connection error
Connecting socket
Finding socket for SPP secure = true
BT finding devices
---- Output ----
This error happens with the Secure checkbox checked, and also with it unchecked. This also happens with the Tab A Location On or Off; it doesn't matter.
I have tried this multiple times with both devices in all modes (airplane mode, normal mode, wi-fi on, wi-fi off, 4G on (smartphone only because the tablet doesn't have 3G/4G), bluetooth tethered, bluetooth untethered, Location On, Location Off).
It doesn't matter what combination -- I can't get past step 5.
------->>>>>> Any suggestions on what to do to get the Bluetooth GPS for Avare app to work? <<<<<<------------
I appreciate the help.
Thanks,
Dan
P.S. I've already started searching the forum for ideas on a different tablet to buy, but I can't find a compiled list of tablets that people say work in the air. Is there a list somewhere, and I'm not seeing it?
Message has been deleted
Dan Ferrell
Jun 7, 2017, 9:38:22 PM6/7/17
to Apps4Av Forum
Additional info:
On my Samsung Tab A, under Applications, Avare, Permissions -- Avare has permission for everything.
On my Samsung Tab A, under Applications, Avare, Permissions -- Avare has permission for everything.
fly...@yahoo.com
Jun 7, 2017, 11:35:33 PM6/7/17
to Apps4Av Forum
Hi Dan.
Tab A has a good internal GPS, why not use it, I have a couple of them and I never lost signal having it on my knee inside the cockpit? No need for Avare IO and or external module.
If you do decide to use the external device you do not need the Avare IO you need the Avare Bluetooth, pair them and you can use the external, assuming it's a Bluetooth device like another Tablet, in this case and or any other case when you use an external device you Must disable the internal GPS / Location.
If you have another type of GPS module, post the device Make / Model here and see we can help with that specifically.
If you go on Stand by, Screen Off, Avare will try to maintain GPS signal for a few (about 3 min), and that is likely why you loose the signal if longer. One solution that may help is to use an external power for the Tablet, the 8In is not very efficient, has a low power / current battery and a power hungry screen, but there are some very small / low profile external batteries that you can velcro / attach to the back of the device. TV
Tab A has a good internal GPS, why not use it, I have a couple of them and I never lost signal having it on my knee inside the cockpit? No need for Avare IO and or external module.
If you do decide to use the external device you do not need the Avare IO you need the Avare Bluetooth, pair them and you can use the external, assuming it's a Bluetooth device like another Tablet, in this case and or any other case when you use an external device you Must disable the internal GPS / Location.
If you have another type of GPS module, post the device Make / Model here and see we can help with that specifically.
If you go on Stand by, Screen Off, Avare will try to maintain GPS signal for a few (about 3 min), and that is likely why you loose the signal if longer. One solution that may help is to use an external power for the Tablet, the 8In is not very efficient, has a low power / current battery and a power hungry screen, but there are some very small / low profile external batteries that you can velcro / attach to the back of the device. TV
t...@mweb.co.za
Jun 8, 2017, 2:31:30 AM6/8/17
to Dan Ferrell, Apps4Av Forum
With regard to GPS reception, not all devices are built equal. Recently I was upgrading my mobile and did some online comparisons between Samsung and Sony devices and noticed that Sony claimed that their GPS aquisition was faster than the competition. That then lead me to check out the Appstore where I found an app called GPS Reset Com - Tools & Repair which claims " GPS Reset Com is the perfect GPS trouble shooting tool that will help solve many GPS and Navigation problems and allow your device to get faster GPS fix."
Might be worth a try to see if that improves your aquisition problems.
Regards
Theo Arrenbrecht
PS: Since I am in South Africa I cannot use AVARE but still follow the forum in the hope that one day maybe...............
From: "Dan Ferrell" <danfe...@gmail.com>
To: "Apps4Av Forum" <apps4a...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2017 3:38:22 AM
Subject: apps4av-forum Re: Samsung Tab A randomly intermittently not acquiring GPS, satellites flashing red, unable to use Bluetooth GPS for Avare
To: "Apps4Av Forum" <apps4a...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2017 3:38:22 AM
Subject: apps4av-forum Re: Samsung Tab A randomly intermittently not acquiring GPS, satellites flashing red, unable to use Bluetooth GPS for Avare
Additional info:
On my Samsung Tab A, under Applications, Avare, Permissions -- Avare has permission for everything.
On my Samsung Tab A, under Applications, Avare, Permissions -- Avare has permission for everything.
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Dan Ferrell
Jun 8, 2017, 2:46:57 AM6/8/17
to Apps4Av Forum
Hi TV, thanks for the reply. The internal GPS on my Tab A is the problem. I think it is bad. I flew for three days only using the internal GPS, and about 90% of the time, after I turn the screen on, Avare won't acquire satellites.
Only today, while on the ground, did I test an external GPS module, and then after that I tried to use my phone on the ground.
I want to use the internal GPS, because that's why I bought the tablet. So, I'm looking for tips on making the tablet work.
t...@mweb.co.za
Jun 8, 2017, 5:53:56 AM6/8/17
to Dan Ferrell, Apps4Av Forum
I have been a GPS nut since about 1996 when I acquired my first hand held Garmin (brick). In those days even Garmin took forever to find its location and if one was anywhere there was not a clear view of the sky above it became unstable and less accurate. First start up often required telling the device where it was in order for it to find its position at all. Those devices would not work indoors or sometimes even not inside an automobile. Then in about 2008 I got my first Garmin EDGE cycling GPS and much to my surprise, I was able to receive GPS even indoors. Which made me realise that receiver tech had clearly improved, and I guess the same can be said for software algorithms where there may be some better than others. Typically, GPS devices need assistance for the first fix and apart from actually telling the device where it is, this is nowadays achieved with WiFi or Phone signal triangulation that will give the GPS device the approximate location which the GPS then uses to home in on the exact location with Satellite triangulation. All these processes are reliant on mathematical algorithms as well as GPS antennae and combinations thereof.
Thus I believe where the Android app such as the "GPS reset COM" tool comes in, is that it may have a more competent algorithm to get a triangulation fix from less GPS signal than the device can natively achieve, which then gives the GPS device in the phone a better guess at location (without the aid of wifi or data triangulation) so that a position fix can be achieved quicker.
That would be my understanding how such an app could help speed up GPS acquisition on a smart phone.
I would in any case be interested on feed back if my suggestion above helps anyone as I don't have the same acquisition issues and this is merely a thought experiment which may help those who do.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Ferrell" <danfe...@gmail.com>
To: "Apps4Av Forum" <apps4a...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2017 8:46:57 AM
Subject: apps4av-forum Re: Samsung Tab A randomly intermittently not acquiring GPS, satellites flashing red, unable to use Bluetooth GPS for Avare
Thus I believe where the Android app such as the "GPS reset COM" tool comes in, is that it may have a more competent algorithm to get a triangulation fix from less GPS signal than the device can natively achieve, which then gives the GPS device in the phone a better guess at location (without the aid of wifi or data triangulation) so that a position fix can be achieved quicker.
That would be my understanding how such an app could help speed up GPS acquisition on a smart phone.
I would in any case be interested on feed back if my suggestion above helps anyone as I don't have the same acquisition issues and this is merely a thought experiment which may help those who do.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Ferrell" <danfe...@gmail.com>
To: "Apps4Av Forum" <apps4a...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2017 8:46:57 AM
Subject: apps4av-forum Re: Samsung Tab A randomly intermittently not acquiring GPS, satellites flashing red, unable to use Bluetooth GPS for Avare
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John Wiley
Jun 8, 2017, 12:03:07 PM6/8/17
to t...@mweb.co.za, Dan Ferrell, Apps4Av Forum
> WiFi or Phone signal triangulation
Yes, the GPS does often get a fix much more quickly by using Android's built-in triangulation, but...
I don't use that service with Avare because my experience is:6. I fly with all devices in Airplane Mode for all the above reasons, and gps (being receive only) isn't affected.
7. Once you turn on Android's triangulation service, it becomes the default on most versions and devices making it somewhere between hard and nearly impossible to turn off. On one of my devices, it requires un/re-install of gPlay services. Google likes to know where we are and where we're going at all times. :)
In terms of the original question about Tab A, my guess is it's a hardware problem.
All that said, it could be that triangulation would help with initial GPS acquisition for anyone having that problem. Especially for someone who doesn't care about having triangulation always on (when not in Airplane Mode).
Happy Flying -j
Chip Davis
Jun 8, 2017, 7:26:37 PM6/8/17
to apps4a...@googlegroups.com
And if all the above fails, I just got a flyer from Costco that offers
a sale on the 8" Galaxy Tab A for $130. I'm very happy with mine
(thanks in great part to John W's excellent tutorials) and have never
had the GPS drop on me. Also, I like the display aspect ratio better
than on the smaller screens. I do run on ship's power but I get
excellent battery life by turning off the power-hungry apps/services
when not in the cockpit.
I fly with Samsung settings:
Airplane mode > ON (turns Wi-Fi and Bluetooth OFF with one setting)
More connection settings > Nearby device scanning > OFF (even when
Airplane mode is OFF)
and Avare preferences:
Storage_and_Downloads > Charts_Storage_Folder >
/storage/xxxx-xxxx/Android/data/com.ds.avare
GPS > Short_GPS_Update > OFF
GPS > Warn_GPS_Disabled > ON
GPS > GPS_Position_Source > INTERNAL ONLY.
Display > Keep_Screen_On > ON
I wonder if Application_State > Leave_Running might have any effect on
the symptoms you are seeing.
-Chip-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/CAKPtEsUaOKeoUP7HmpKNKA9oAC%2BrfkO7ZzZ%2B0PVBdZu5CSzE0A%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
a sale on the 8" Galaxy Tab A for $130. I'm very happy with mine
(thanks in great part to John W's excellent tutorials) and have never
had the GPS drop on me. Also, I like the display aspect ratio better
than on the smaller screens. I do run on ship's power but I get
excellent battery life by turning off the power-hungry apps/services
when not in the cockpit.
I fly with Samsung settings:
Airplane mode > ON (turns Wi-Fi and Bluetooth OFF with one setting)
More connection settings > Nearby device scanning > OFF (even when
Airplane mode is OFF)
and Avare preferences:
Storage_and_Downloads > Charts_Storage_Folder >
/storage/xxxx-xxxx/Android/data/com.ds.avare
GPS > Short_GPS_Update > OFF
GPS > Warn_GPS_Disabled > ON
GPS > GPS_Position_Source > INTERNAL ONLY.
Display > Keep_Screen_On > ON
I wonder if Application_State > Leave_Running might have any effect on
the symptoms you are seeing.
-Chip-
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