Rubber banding request

[John Shackelford]

It looks like the last comment about a "rubber banding" option was back in October.  I would like to add my vote for that feature.  It is one of the best features of iFly and Sky Vector.  For long distance VFR, it is so nice to draw a course and then see, 'oh it crosses a high peak or restricted airspace' and just "pull the course around it.  Or realize that you need a fuel stop along the route and just "bend and drop" a new waypoint with the additional mileage and ETE computed.  Other than that, Avare is the greatest and keep up the excellent work.  

[Zubair Khan]

Hi John

Noted. This feature requires a big change in the code. Been waiting to see how much demand is for it.

Thanks
Z

On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 2:58 AM, John Shackelford <jsshack...@gmail.com> wrote:

It looks like the last comment about a "rubber banding" option was back in October.  I would like to add my vote for that feature.  It is one of the best features of iFly and Sky Vector.  For long distance VFR, it is so nice to draw a course and then see, 'oh it crosses a high peak or restricted airspace' and just "pull the course around it.  Or realize that you need a fuel stop along the route and just "bend and drop" a new waypoint with the additional mileage and ETE computed.  Other than that, Avare is the greatest and keep up the excellent work.  

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Zubair Khan
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Sudbury, MA 01776

[Dan Wegman]

Work around: Long press on the desired map location, add to plan (+ Plan). This puts the added point at the end of the plan. Open the "Plan" tab and re-position this new endpoint between any other two plan waypoints, then re-activate the plan.

A bit cumbersome but workable.

[djp...@gmail.com]

I will second the request. Thank you for the great work!

[Christopher Van Stelle]

I'll 3rd (4th, 5th) the request. As an avid user (and fan) and one who has turned a few people on/over to Avare, the single biggest question that I receive is "Why can't I rubber band?" 

[Zubair Khan]

Chris

Not forgotten, and something we DO want to do. Still trying to find resources to do it.

I myself was busy with registration because users must be informed of critical updates. Now that my time is free after yesterday's release, I want to tackle approach plates geotags with Pete.

Not an excuse but we all have day jobs, and adding of features depend on how busy we were during the day, and on roadmap.

Regards

Zubair

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[Zubair Khan]

Assigned issue to this to look at it.

https://github.com/apps4av/avare/issues/67

On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Christopher Van Stelle <acrop...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Christopher Van Stelle]

Thank you Zubair for your quick response. I've always been impressed with your (and others) "Get it done" attitude. And we pilots benefit from it. 

On Sunday, March 16, 2014 11:58:55 PM UTC-7, John Shackelford wrote:

[midlifeflyer]

Just an unscientific observation but it seems all/most iOS EFB apps all have rubberbanding while it's a little more hit-or-miss in Android apps (I was very surprised to see Avilution/FlightPro doesn't). Is there something about the Android platform that makes the task more difficult? 

[Zubair Khan]

Not really difficult or different about Android. Its just an uncsientific observation ;)

The only thing thats making this linger on for Avare is that no one is willing to take up this feature, and I usually take ownership of a feature (not sure about others) when I need it. I myself have not had a need to rubber band yet. Soon I / another member of dev. will be convinced and then it will appear.

Thanks
Z

On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 1:48 PM, midlifeflyer <midlif...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just an unscientific observation but it seems all/most iOS EFB apps all have rubberbanding while it's a little more hit-or-miss in Android apps (I was very surprised to see Avilution/FlightPro doesn't). Is there something about the Android platform that makes the task more difficult? 

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[midlifeflyer]

:D

Play with an app that has it (or just try it on Skyvector) using a realistic scenario and you might be convinced . The typical insertion of a waypoint into an existing flight  plan takes two screen touches with rubberbanding; a minimum of 6* without (assuming a 3-character waypoint).  The numbers are, of course, closer if you have no idea where the waypoint is and need to enter the waypoint to find it, but still at least one touch less.  Folks who've used it  find it useful to be able to do it so quickly, especially IFR when a clearance is amended or a direct to a waypoint not in the flight plan is given.That's probably why you hear so much about it from the ranks.

*That's not Avare; in Avare, it currently takes a minimum of 10 touches to insert a waypoint, but I know part of that is due to the way Avare does its flight plans, something I understand is a priority at your end.

[John Wiley]

> Play with an app that has it

I'm looking forward to that convenience on Avare too, but for now it's
not *too* much trouble to just insert a point into a Plan. Long-press a
point in Map view, tap Destination, [optional: tap the Find tab and
long-press the coordinates you just added to the top of the "recent"
list, tap Label to name it, long-press again] and tap Plan to add it.
Then tap Plan and use the hand icon to drag it into the location of the
detour in your Plan. I guess the minimum would be 4 or 5 touches?

With so many inputs of course, in flight it's much easier to just switch
from flying a Plan to temporarily flying to a point you input simply
using a long-press as a Destination Find (two touches). Once in that
vicinity you just reactivate the Plan. If the points are close enough
that the Plan gets confused, just use another Find to the next point
until you have time to sort it out. Works fine for me in VFR, and I'd
probably only use rubber band in preflight planning. I get your point
of how that's sub-optimal in IFR.

While apps like FF feel to me like a corporate jet glass panel, Avare
feels like a really cool flying club with members ranging from students
to ATP guys taking a break from complexity to refresh the Joy. Any time
I'm feeling some urge to buy an app with rubber banding or some other
cool feature missing in Avare, I remember that Avare has features
missing in those. More importantly I think about the "flybucks" (aka
gas money) those alternatives require. :)

[midlifeflyer]

Just to be clear, John, I'm not complaining. For me, the simplicity of Avare is a far bigger attraction than its cost. It and the tablet I run it on are backups to my primary EFB (the paper I carry into the cockpit is limited to a sticky note pad; I choose to have an electronic backup), so the simpler the UI the better — much less to learn and recall. Just pointing out why I think there's a user push for rubberbanding - I doubt there is anything simpler or more intuitive from a user standpoint than simply moving a courseline to a point without ever leaving a Map page. And, as I mentioned, I know there are related, perhaps even predicate, issues that have priority. I've watched Avare and have run it on my phone since it's first public availability and have been absolutely amazed at the quality and  the pace of its growth. 

But unless I'm missing something the method you describe doesn't insert, for example, XYZ VOR or AABBC intersection, into an existing flight plan. The Long Press | Destination method (1) deactivates the existing flight plan and changes the flight plan to a D → the coordinates you just chose and (2) unless you touched near an airport, those coordinates are not a named waypoint on the chart; it's a user waypoint that may or may not be close in terms of course. 

You're right about the "optional" method you describe, which does insert the new user waypoint into the existing flight plan. Actually takes 6 touches if you include activating the changed flight plan, in addition to the 2 you used for the creation of the user waypoint, for a total of 9 the 10 minimum I referred to earlier was assuming the entry of a VOR.

[midlifeflyer]

Never said I could count :) 

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi midlifeflyer and everyone.

I am sure most users would like to see rubber banding implemented and this message is not intended to dispute the request.

I just want to point out that you can easily use the Avare's other features to  do what you want, when a Flight Plan is amended, which is most of time if you fly in a busy airspace. This is intended to help users take advantage of other available features to help minimize the work  for the lack of rubber banding feature.

1-You can, and should, Find your Nav, Airports, Fixes, VORs  etc. locations before you fly, then it's easy to add to the flight plan in Avare. You can also use the Near function to get easy access to airports.

2-Long press on  the Chart gives you an X-Y coordinate, airports, etc. you can use as new Destinations, temporarily, when you resume your filed route you go to Plan and Re Activate. It's not ideal but it does the job. Most of the time you need to be very flexible and new Destination works well.

If you want, and can, you can make your own changes to the code and have it do what you want. Some of us do just that, the problem, if there is one, is that you have to keep making changes / updates by yourself, until and if the changes you want are implemented. TV

[John Wiley]

> The Long Press | Destination method (1) *deactivates*

Yeh, noticed right after Send the Dest should've been inside the
(...Label...) bit. For minimum touches you long-press the point & tap
the Plan popout, tap the Plan tab, drag the new point from the bottom to
where it needs to be in the list, toggle Active, tap Map tab or Back button.

Bottom line is, fwiw I totally agree that 6 touches is far too many in
flight and drag rubber banding will be an essential feature once it's
added, and that it will involve a lot of work on both the feature and
integrating it with the UI. I also agree with Zubair that, as we've
seen this year with other features, once a new volunteer or someone
already on the team decides to take this on it might happen pretty fast.

Anyway, thanks for bringing it up again because that can only help with
finding and/or inspiring such a volunteer. :)

[Ed Mulholland]

Count me in on rubberbanding

ka4wwv

[Zubair Khan]

I added rubber banding. Rubber banding will be in next release 3.6.1, today or tomorrow. Try it and let us know.
Thanks
Zubair

On Monday, March 17, 2014 2:58:55 AM UTC-4, John Shackelford wrote:

[Christopher Van Stelle]

Wow. wonderful. Thanks for your hard work

Thanks,

Christopher Van Stelle

Director of Administration

AirShow San Diego

Produced by Air Group One

San Diego Wing of The Commemorative Air Force

619-871-8061

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[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi everyone.
Make that 5.6.1. TV

[Bruce Bockius]

Thanks Zubair and crew.  Your work is appreciated.

  -Bruce

[Zubair Khan]

Welcome. We like working on it on our own schedule and need, so it took a bit longer time :)

BTW, to rubber band, you need to grab a green waypoint, not the track. To insert a point, just long press on a point then select Plan,   then grab that point and rubber band to exact location. If you drip it close to an airport, it will snap to the airport.
Z

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[John Wiley]

> We like working on it on our own schedule and need

Tens of thousands of Avare users are going to benefit greatly from
having this new rubber banding feature, just like every new feature
that's come already.

It's SO cool how Avare keeps sporadically gaining new toys, yet remains
relatively easy to learn and use. All still free, done for the love of
doing and sharing. If a tiny percentage of those who benefit from Avare
keep donating a few dollars or a few hours, aviation will continue to
benefit far beyond those contributions.

I was just thinking yesterday how much a $10 ADS-B dongle will help
people flying more safely. Seems to me Avare has spawned not just a set
of killer apps, but an open source aviation movement.

I often feel thankful for the extra hours of flying that Avare has
bestowed upon me, in chart savings alone. Then there are all the
situational awareness benefits that no other affordable solution provides.

Thank you, Avare team! :)

[Dennis Long]

The rubber band feature that most everyone I know wants most is used for the direct to navigation.  Sometimes we decide we have to go around airspace (while in the air) or want to divert and then continue on to the chosen destination. And that is where rubber band feature would be best.  I know that I can just touch the screen and go direct to a point (outside of that airspace)  I choose around the airspace but then I have to go to the find tab and reselect my final destination.  I think if you checked this app is being used most for sport flying and most there don't do a complete flight plan, we just decide where we are going next before or after takeoff.  No long drawn out flight plan before hand.  I know GA guys will scoff at that but your app is being used by a lot of ultralight and Sport Pilots that don't have any use for a long drawn out flight plan, just decide where you are going to next when ever you change your mind. 

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi Dennis.

Sometimes we decide we have to go around airspace (while in the air) or want to divert and then continue on to the chosen destination. And that is where rubber band feature would be best.  I know that I can just touch the screen and go direct to a point (outside of that airspace)  I choose around the airspace but then I have to go to the find tab and reselect my final destination. <<

You Do Not have to go the Find tab. If you have a Flight Plan Activated, you can Long Press on a Chart Location / Airport, and Avare will give you the choice to add it to your Flight Plan. If you go to the Text Flight plan and the new selection is not in the proper sequence you can move it (hand grab > drag) to the right place / sequence and Avare will paint your new course.
And of course you can still go from point to point as before. TV

[Zubair Khan]

Dennis
No Android app for flying has rubber band feature EXCEPT Avare. I dont know why you are saying what you said. Maybe you do not update the app. Please see help on how to rubber band.

Zubair

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[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi Dennis
I posted your message that went to my Email, here for the rest of the Group.
>>

Like I said no flight plan active and don't want or need to do one.  I decide where I am going when I take off and sometime change my mind.  I only use the direct to feature (VFR only) and that is where we need the rubber band feature.  If I was doing a flight plan then I could route around anything while planning the trip and would not need rubberbanding.  Lots of us fly airplanes for fun and not just a destination. 

 

Let me know if this is going to an individual or the forum?

 

Dennis<<

Unfortunately I do not know of way to insert / rubberband without having an Active Flight Plan? I will look and see if there is a way and post here.You will have to go Present to destination.
That said, to create a Flight plan can be as simple as two points, in general direction, then insert new waypoints in between. If you have no planned Destination, need for flight plan, Long press on new location should satisfy your need? Why the need to insert new waypoints if you don't know where you are going. Maybe I am missing something? TV