AvareX: Feedback

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Kyle Phillipson

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Oct 25, 2024, 8:12:57 PM10/25/24
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Hi, 
I am a happy user of the legacy Avare app and the new one is missing too many things to fully use. I'm hopeful Avarex will be a fully baked product soon. Below are some of my observations and user feedback.

Bluetooth - Big issue to not use Avarex.  A friend and I both use bluetooth for autopilot. We connect to a BT receiver that converts the signals to serial.

Weather Documents - Love that there are a lot of weather information under documents, but only found it by trying to find settings for the app.  Maybe a different name under menu for WX info.

Weather pulls - I don't like the lack of information of when the latest pull was.  The legacy app would tell you when it last pulled the data.  I'm not confident in the feedback from the app. Also no manual way to force a weather refresh, that I can find, in instances where internet is available for a brief window of time.

Private Server - In the legacy app I was able to create a private server (Docker container) and pull what I needed to that. This allowed me to update multiple devices quickly without having to pull multiple large files over the internet.  *I have spoofed a local repo by using a revers proxy to rewrite the server domain name and local host file.*

Rings - Be able to change the number of rings and distance on user preference.

Tiles - When switching between plates and back to sectional, on a Galaxy s24 plus, the sectional tiles would be slow to load and sometimes load everywhere around me except where I'm at. Maybe a priority on loading the closest tiles first, or cache it long enough that when switching between views (plates, nav) they stay 'loaded.'

TFR - Same with weather, I'd like to see some feedback on when the data was last pulled. Also a way to view TFR information local to an area, like the SUA tab.

Top boxes - Be able to add/remove based on preference. Also noticed that when using my s24 it would use its GPS and switch between pressure alt and gps alt. I could get it to flip to gps alt if I opened the legacy app.

GPS - Preference on source.

Traffic - I haven't used this yet, but also didn't notice any settings for filtering targets or alerting preferences.

I have looked to see if these things have been talked about but found it hard to see what was an official repose or just others comments. Is it possible to create a AvareX feedback Label as well as an AvareX Bugs label to help track/consolidate common requests?

Thank you for your continued support in a great product.
Kyle

David Lewis

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Oct 25, 2024, 9:57:44 PM10/25/24
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I am also a happy user of the legacy Avare app. I enthusiastically promote it to other pilots I meet. I have the in-development AvareX installed on my iPad an iPhone to follow along as improvements are made. I am onboard with the simplified approach and how features are being rolled out. It is a very attractive interface and the developers are to be commended for the great work they're doing. However, I would like to reinforce the need to address some kind of Autopilot connection.

I understand the problem with the new platform and BT integration, and that for now I can just continue to use the legacy app. But eventually the legacy app will go unsupported and I will need to find another mechanism to drive my Dynon equipment. I don't see the logic of  loading a flight plan into AvareX and not be able to drive the autopilot. Perhaps there is another way to restore autopilot capability, through a physical port or a parallel app? Without that function my flight management will become more complicated with an additional driver device and double flight plan loads.

I am hopeful this feature is going to be addressed as AvareX matures, and before legacy Avare goes dark.
David Lewis

On Friday, October 25, 2024 at 1:12:57 PM UTC-7 phill...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, 
I am a happy user of the legacy Avare app and the new one is missing too many things to fully use. I'm hopeful Avarex will be a fly fully baked product soon. Below are some of my observations and user feedback.

Apps4av Support

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Oct 27, 2024, 4:23:19 PM10/27/24
to David Lewis, Apps4Av Forum
AvareX is multi platform and BT is not an option. If there is another way to connect AP using wifi then can look into it.

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Apps4av Support

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Oct 27, 2024, 4:24:20 PM10/27/24
to Kyle Phillipson, Apps4Av Forum
Thanks for the feedback.
Some of the issues are your unfamiliarity with the X app. Some of it is your desire to have control. X app does not allow that level of control as many folks don't care.

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Rich Klarich

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Oct 29, 2024, 4:56:48 PM10/29/24
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Today on Avare I can be linked to Avare legacy, ADSB-In humming along, music from the same device playing on my bluetooth intercom concurrently, hear ADSB traffic and Bob's your uncle.

Downgrading from that is obtuse.  This IS your audience.  Multiplat is not going to create some magical AHA! growth needle movement.

I don't know one single standard iOS user that would leave their App nor have a student learn otherwise.

You all had the perfect thing, it happened to be on Android.  Others are as good but cost more, or better and spendy.  I am multiplat, Android phone and cheap tablets, Windows laptop, High $ iOS work iPad EFK/EFB.

I don't for the life of me get it unless you have a team of uncompensated hampsters clawing data every 28 days.

If so, charge $5 or $10 a month or whatever, but AvareX just is not doing it for me.

Andrew Stempel

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Oct 29, 2024, 5:52:18 PM10/29/24
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Can't agree that the front end of X is better. The buttons and instrument data overlaying the chart are less legible, smaller size and too closely spaced.
Would have to agree that IOS compatibility is a questionable benefit for a cost-free gps efb app. I admit that ipad mini, with its brighter screen and lighter weight, is optimal device for in-flight use, it's higher cost makes it a less likely choice for pilots unwilling to spend the $150 for an annual subscription to commercially available efb app. The absence of BT aggravates the issue. The absence of Internal GPS in a wifi ipad means that BT may be needed to connect to an external gps and ahrs device.
I would be disappointed to see legacy Avare sunset. X is one step forward and 5 steps back 

Adam Radloff

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Oct 30, 2024, 12:46:44 AM10/30/24
to Andrew Stempel, Apps4Av Forum
Have to agree, I've between alternating Legacy and X but still keep using Legacy, it's just easier to use and has ALL the features I want. X falls short by a long shot. If/when Legacy Avare is discontinued I'll break down and purchase another EFB unfortunately because X just doesn't cut it for me.

Adam 

Jeffrey Ross

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Oct 30, 2024, 1:16:54 AM10/30/24
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Adam,

I'm sorry you feel that way.  The reason development was stopped on Avare was due to how the original code base was written, at the time the coding skills were somewhat limited which have caused multiple problems when attempting to add features or fix bugs and to properly fix the application would have required a major rewrite of the core to fix.

Although I do agree with you that AvareX doesn't have all the features that the original Avare had...yet, these features are continually being added and I have had many discussions with Zubair often regarding features, the UI, and other items.  I admit we don't always agree on what features to add or how to modify the UI etc as we have different ideas of how it should work.  One of the things I have found after helping Zubair support the applications for several years now is everybody is expecting something different out of the application, for example I have no desire to install OSM (Open Street Maps), OpenAIP, or the Topographic charts, to me they are simply a waste of space but you or somebody else may find them very important, especially OSM for those pilots that do landings at private airstrips that may not be charted.  I also dislike having the METARs and TAFs decoded, I'd rather read the encoded WX, it is easier for me to do and I can do it quickly, others think encoding WX is stupid and dated as we now have plenty of bandwidth to send everything unencoded.

I know bluetooth is an issue for some, and bluetooth maybe added in the future to the Android version, however adding it to the Apple devices probably will not happen as Apple requires a gazillion hoops to jump through to obtain access to the bluetooth interface.  The Android version will probably be done via some sort of shim similar to "Avare External I/O Plugin" that was used by the original Avare program.

Lastly if you (or anybody else for that matter) are a programmer we would be happy for you to submit code updates for fixes or features, the code base is available on GitHub.

Jeff

Dan - M20J

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Oct 30, 2024, 6:33:41 PM10/30/24
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I have to agree with the above comments supporting original Avare. It's simplicity and ease of use make it a standout and a quick learn for those transitioning to an EFB. The button layout is perfect and intuitive and I really hope it can continue in it's present form. I've recommended it to many pilots in our flying club (150 members) and we have some old timers that went right from paper charts  into using it with almost no difficulty. I can't say the same for "X" unfortunately, I just don't find it very user friendly.  I know you can't please everyone, but I  feel original Avare is perfect for those of us that have well equipped panels in their aircraft and are simply looking for a nice backup with all the charts and plates to compliment. I appreciate all the programmers work that has gone into Avare and I gladly donate each month, but I hate to see you change a winning product. 

Alan

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Oct 31, 2024, 4:29:05 AM10/31/24
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I agree with all the above comments. Avare is pretty much a perfect EFB. In Avarex, the targets are too large, and there is so much target information on the map that it becomes difficult to know where the target is or how many are near by, especially in crowded airspace. Also, cloud information is fuzzy in Avarex, rather than sharp and well defined in Avare. I do try to use them both to get used to Avarex (I have 2 tablets), but Avare is sharper,  and less cluttered. I always end up using Avare as my primary EFB.

Curtis Miller

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Oct 31, 2024, 12:06:59 PM10/31/24
to Alan, Apps4Av Forum

Well I must have to agree with the previous comments about Avare versus AvareX...


Andrew Stempel

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Oct 31, 2024, 12:34:15 PM10/31/24
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Apparently, X is just a beta intended to elicit feedback, not an operational replacement for Avare. Yet. A splash screen notice to that effect when the app loads would help allay concerns. I do like with OpenAIP with OSM  or Topo, and Chart off.  It's confusing though that this is not listed as a chart selection like sectional or Flyway, but rather a combination of layer selections. 
As for the UI, I'm hoping the developers are targeting 8 or 9 inch tablets (most likely in Portrait).  Our primary commercial app actually has two distinct display modes to choose from: Tablet (8 inches or larger) or phone (7 inches or smaller).  One size ui cannot fit all. 

Mike Watson

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Oct 31, 2024, 1:06:41 PM10/31/24
to Andrew Stempel, Apps4Av Forum

I just loaded X on my phone to check it  out. I've used the legacy for some time and really like it. Overall I think the legacy is clearer and easier to use but I do see the potential in X if it continues to develop based on the feedback here. I'm trying to figure out if there is a way in X to mark and label a location of an uncharted strip like I could easily do in legacy?


John W 4sba

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Oct 31, 2024, 10:21:44 PM10/31/24
to Dan - M20J, Apps4Av Forum
On 10/30/24 11:33 AM, Dan - M20J wrote:
> I appreciate all the programmers work that has gone into Avare

I very much appreciate you making this the start of the "bottom line" of
your feedback to the Dev Team. Your support is important to me as a
sometime (mostly former) contributor of my decreasingly relevant
capabilities to that team. More importantly though, I hope your words
help encourage the Dev Team to keep donating their quite valuable time
to the Apps4Av community.

> and I gladly donate each month

Even better!! :D

> but I hate to see you change a winning product.

I agree with all the feedback that's been shared AND beyond m
my appreciation of your verbal and financial support, your implicit
Understanding.

That is: Everything about Apps4Av - ALL OF IT - is freely donated by a
few exceptional Speople. Not just their truly remarkable technical
expertise (they built and maintain an extremely complex legacy app that
many of us find superior to paid apps). To me it's quite remarkable they
continue to donate their work, when I see people here complain when the
app doesn't do something they need, want, see elsewhere, or just imagine
might be nice.

All feedback is graciously welcomed and encouraged by these heroes of
mine, but it rankles me when in the form of complaint, criticism or
gripe. It also triggers some fear for me, that in the face of negativity
one or more of these volunteers might just find something more fun to do
with their busy lives. Further, I'm concerned that another tech expert
might hesitate to get involved if their work is attacked rather than
appreciated.

So again, THANK YOU Dan for your constructive feedback and support.

John

John W 4sba

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Oct 31, 2024, 11:12:29 PM10/31/24
to Jeffrey Ross, apps4a...@googlegroups.com
Jeff wrote:
> The reason development was stopped on Avare was due to how the
> original code base was written

I agree, having started using Avare on a Droid - the first significant
phone in the Android market. With each and EVERY Android "update" since
then, the heavy hand of Google has unilaterally made app compatibility
more difficult for developers. Alphabet (Google) is a for-profit
company, so of course their main focus with Android is profit. They are
not investing gazillions of bucks to make coding easy and fun for open
source developers (or even many of their leading commercial developers).

Seems to me one advantage of the new app new development product used to
build AvareX is that its target of "universal" compatibility (e.g. iOS,
Android, Windows, Linux, etc.) favors lower interface complexity. But
that presumably also limits features (e.g. Bluetooth connectivity). A
friend who was involved in the dawn of internet at UCSB mentioned
yesterday how much easier circuit prototyping is, now that building wire
wrap test boards aren't part of that process.

My understanding is that similar to wire wrap prototyping, coding is
ever more abstracted from Android, iOS, etc., and moving to "high level"
languages like the one behind AvareX. The makers of these high level
coding products hire teams to ensure that apps built with their product
keep pace with Google's endless stream of "upgrades" to G's
profitability. AND teams of experts do the same for iOS, Windows, etc.
Those teams then collaborate on how to keep maximum capability in all of
these diverse end user products, while retaining robust reliability amid
the stream of "upgrades" in everything. Quite remarkable really.

It makes perfect sense to me that the Apps4Av Dev Team much prefers to
build something with the latest tools, especially after years of
upgrading and patching the app we all love that was built at the dawn of
Android.

So Jeff, am I way off track and clueless as to the differences between
maintaining Avare vs AvareX, much less both?

In closing, let me add my amazement at your capabilities and
contributions, Jeff!!
It seems like forever that you've tirelessly and patiently provided
expert Help here on the Forum. The fact you also donate so much time and
exceptional expertise to the coding is truly inspiring. Thank You!

Sincerely,
John

John Rodkey

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Nov 1, 2024, 3:17:21 AM11/1/24
to John W 4sba, Jeffrey Ross, apps4a...@googlegroups.com
I would echo your affirmation of the amazing work the dev team has done.
I think that there's another reason Android has become more difficult to work with, besides Google's avarice, which could explain it all.
However, in the spirit of charity, many of the changes of the Android OS that have caused headaches for the developers are made to address real world security issues. As those security issues get exploited, Google brings out fixes which close these loopholes, and thus make it more and more difficult to program.
I have needs that AvareX doesn't meet: connecting to my stratux device and useful kml creation being the most pressing, but I appreciate that software development is a long-term big-picture kind of activity that implements incremental improvements in response to well articulated 'stories' that describe the current and the desired behavior, preferably with screen shots and use cases. Each of these requests needs to be evaluated for 'cost' in time required to implement them, device resources, and so forth. Then the benefit needs to be assessed: how many people will need this improvement? Does it detract from the operation for those who don't need it? And then the available programming resources need to be assembled. 
So this is not easy work, if you're committed to developing high quality software.

Thanks again for your work, dev team. Keep it up!  

John R


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Apps4av Support

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Nov 3, 2024, 6:29:09 PM11/3/24
to John Rodkey, John W 4sba, Jeffrey Ross, apps4a...@googlegroups.com
Avare is not going to be taken off store by Apps4Av (although Android Store might do it through rules that make maintenance a significant burden). There will be no new features added to Avare, but critical bug fixes will continue.
All new innovation will only happen on AvareX. 





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Apps For Aviators Support,

We encourage users to use the Forum for all questions. Any updates to the forum will help other users, who might have similar questions.
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