How to update my 8" Samsung tablet to newest Avare version and 16GB enough??

[edward...@att.net]

I can't figure out how I determine what version of Avare I have on my 8" Samsung tablet.  I searched throughout Avare but I can't find out how I define what version I have or how I upgrade to the newest Avare.
Second, I suspect I'm going to need to add more ram as I only have 16 GB.  Is this true and if so is 32 GB enough?
Third, would you explain the value of using my new Android Samsung smart phone along with my tablet and Avare?  I don't quite follow why this has any value.
As you can see I'm not real computer savy at 75 and just starting my flying "career".
I'm impressed with all that I have read about Avare and am supporting it.
Ed Perkins,  Sonex #371, WI

[John W SBA]

> I can't figure out how I determine what version of Avare I have

It's in Help. Above the Map tab at bottom-left of screen tap the
Options button, then in the bottom-left tap the Help button, scroll down
a little bit and you'll see your current version just below "Avare
Releases."

> how I upgrade to the newest Avare

Launch the Google Play app, tap their options button at upper-left and
select "My Apps." If your version of Avare isn't current it will be
listed along with any other apps for update. If it's current, it will
be in the list of apps that are current.

> Second, I suspect I'm going to need to add more ram as I only have 16 GB.

Avare doesn't use much RAM, even with lots of charts loaded. You only
need more if you have lots of photos, music, other apps, or something
else that uses lots of RAM. I run Avare fine on my Samsung S4 phone
with 16GB (3GB apps, 1GB pix/music/downloads, 1GB cach, 8GB misc files
still leaves 3GB free). That's all internal built-in "device" memory.
I don't use the SD card much because they seem more prone to malfunction
and Google has made Android annoying to use with SD cards, so it has
only 3GB on it.

> value of using my new Android Samsung smart phone along with my tablet

I use my phone, my wife's identical phone and our Nexus 7 tablet with
Avare. I like having multiple backups in flight, and having Avare handy
if I want to look something up. I've never needed that redundancy due
to an in flight device failure or battery loss, but have had my wife
look something up in flight a few times. Like when we're deciding on an
airport for a quick stretch break.

> I'm not real computer savy at 75

You're asking astute questions, and maybe helping others who aren't wise
and humble enough to ask. ;)

> just starting my flying "career".

Congratulations on joining the fun. I started flying at the tender age
of 60 and these are easily the best years of my life, as you can see here:
http://ja4u.net/

> I'm impressed with all that I have read about Avare and am supporting it.

Thanks, Ed. It's amazing to me what our whole Avare community has
created, making aviation less expensive, safer and easier.

> Sonex #371, WI

Pretty cool you've built a plane AND started to fly! :D

Happy Flying -j

[bman]

Go to your tablet's Settings app, then find App Manager. Click on the Avare app button and it will give you all the app details including version.

I have been using a 16GB Samsung tablet forever and it works just fine. It is especially useful to store the maps data on an SD card, extSDcard.

[Dean Gibson ATP/CFI]

On 2016-01-26 10:32, John W SBA wrote:
> ...

>
>> Second, I suspect I'm going to need to add more ram as I only have 16
>> GB.
>
> Avare doesn't use much RAM, even with lots of charts loaded. You only
> need more if you have lots of photos, music, other apps, or something
> else that uses lots of RAM. I run Avare fine on my Samsung S4 phone
> with 16GB (3GB apps, 1GB pix/music/downloads, 1GB cach, 8GB misc files
> still leaves 3GB free). That's all internal built-in "device" memory.
> I don't use the SD card much because they seem more prone to
> malfunction and Google has made Android annoying to use with SD cards,
> so it has only 3GB on it.

Let's not confuse permanent storage memory with RAM. You guys (in fact,
most of us) have 1, 2, or 4GB or so of RAM. You have 8, 16, or 32GB of
permanent storage internal memory.

-- Dean ( http://airmen.mailpen.com/airman/dean/ )

[John W SBA]

> Let's not confuse permanent storage memory with RAM.

I hope not. Few people know the difference between RAM and ROM, and
luckily in the case of Avare it's less an issue than with some apps.
Especially those that handle aviation charts. Regardless, the published
16/32GB storage figures don't have much bearing on the amount of actual
RAM be available in a given device, and Samsung devices are better than
most in running Avare. So I'm thinking in terms of Ed's question isn't
it more a factor of how much other stuff (apps & files) he's going to
have on it? Am I overly cautious in turning off any other apps not
needed while using Avare in flight?

[Dean Gibson ATP/CFI]

On 2016-01-26 12:06, John W SBA wrote:

Let's not confuse permanent storage memory with RAM.

I hope not.  Few people know the difference between RAM and ROM, and luckily in the case of Avare it's less an issue than with some apps. Especially those that handle aviation charts.  Regardless, the published 16/32GB storage figures don't have much bearing on the amount of actual RAM be available in a given device, and Samsung devices are better than most in running Avare.  So I'm thinking in terms of Ed's question isn't it more a factor of how much other stuff (apps & files) he's going to have on it?  Am I overly cautious in turning off any other apps not needed while using Avare in flight?

Neither memory is ROM.  They better know the difference between RAM and storage memory, when they receive messages saying (in effect), "App closed because not enough RAM" and "App closed because not enough storage space".

Just like flying:  I had a flight student that worked as an engineer at Boeing.  She had a degree in Aeronautical Engineering, so I assumed (you know what that means!) that I did not have to give her any instruction in how light aircraft engine powerplants worked (she scored 97 on the FAA written).  Well, when she went for her checkride, she failed the oral, on basic questions on the engine ignition system ("the magnetos need battery power, but only to start"), and on how the brakes worked ("electric", because that's what they are on the Boeing 777).  A short visit to our maintenance shop (with the cowling off) remedied that error on my part.  Later, I asked another one of our CFIs whether or not her Aeronautical Engineering degree was lacking, and he said, "I have an Aeronautical Engineering degree, and we only spent one day on turboprop engines;  the rest was on turbofan engines.  Zero on reciprocating engines."

Back to "storage memory" (which is the term I use, because it seems the least ambiguous), or (if you want to get technical) "flash memory":  Some people use the term "emmc" to refer to the internal storage memory, but in fact (usually) both the internal and external (if any) storage memory is "emmc".

Back to RAM:  Android will normally close any apps to regain RAM when needed for the "primary" app (the one that has "focus", another technical term), so I wouldn't worry about closing other apps.  Note that some apps (including Avare and Garmin Pilot) do retain a small amount of code running in the background, which can usually only be closed by rebooting the phone/tablet, or by going into the Settings "Application Manager" and doing a "Force Close".  That shouldn't be needed.

Ed's question (if I interpret it correctly) is about permanent storage for Avare to store all the downloaded Avare data.  I personally have that on a microSD card (which works fine), but for an Android newbie and the known difficulties with configuring Avare (and Android) with working with external memory, he's probably better off not using it at this point.

I forget if there's an easy way to see how much storage space Avare uses, other than by noting the amount of available space there is before downloading Avare data, and then again after.  I'd think if he doesn't try to download the whole USA initially, he'll be OK.

[Zubair Khan]

Hello Ed
Your current tablet will be just fine.
Regards
Z

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[edward...@att.net]

To all of you who responded to my update & other questions - THANK YOU! 

I learned a great deal from you and now KNOW I have Version 7.1.0 loaded.
I would like to share the following that some of you might find of value:
1) I had to go to settings, then to "General", then to "Application Manager" and then selected "Avare." to get the version and other info below.
2)  Here is what it shows on memory usage on my 8" Samsung tablet:
     -  Storage total was 211 MB
     -  Application  was....7.98 MB
     - SD Card app was    0.00
     - Data was .........       203 MB
     - SD Card data was...  0.00
    - CACHE showed....    840 KB
I suspect some of you computer guys will find that of some interest and value based on what I all read below. 
THANKS AGAIN GUYS!!!

[Dean Gibson ATP/CFI]

Congratulations, you have graduated from the "How to figure out Android
for users" class!

Seriously, you have found out how to find important information on your
Android device. You will find that this skill (like landings) more than
a little useful as you use Avare.

Now, about those landings ... (grin)

-- Dean ( http://airmen.mailpen.com/airman/dean/ )

[John W SBA]

> storage memory

Yeh, memory in Android seems to be even more complex than even your
interesting brief technical treatise describes. But for people just
trying to install and use Avare, maybe it would be helpful if I post an
example from my Samsung S4 phone.

While my Avare (version 7.1.2) app is running if I go to
Settings/More/Storage it shows the memory usage and Available Space
numbers (about 3GB for both Device Memory and SD Card). Atop the Device
Memory list if I tap the Applications line item it takes me to an
Application Manager screen showing "Avare 743MB" and other apps
apparently sorted in descending order by amount of memory used. If I
tap that Avare line item it takes me to the App Info screen (screen
capture image attached).

In the Avare Downloads screen I see that these items are installed:
Databases & Plates Georeference Info in the Databases pulldown list; all
three items in Weather/TFRs; both items in Other; Los Angeles & San
Francisco in VFR Sectional Charts; Los Angeles, San Diego & San
Francisco in TAC Charts; California in Plates/d-TPP/ADs; VFR Area
California in VFR Area Plates; A/FD in A/FD Images; Elevation SW in
Terrain; and ONC Canada West in ONC Large Files. So this phone probably
has more than the typical Avare installation in terms of files loaded,
yet is only shown using about .75GB out of my phone's 16GB of Device
Memory while running.

Might it be useful for new and prospective Avare users if a few
intensive IFR transcontinental users posted their Avare memory usage
numbers? I'd be surprised if anyone is using more than 2GB, but maybe
it's possible?

> *I wouldn't worry about closing other apps.*

I don't "worry" per se, just routinely shut everything else down when
flying. I do it with a normal exit from each app, then long-press the
Home button (different on other devices no doubt) to get the recent apps
list, then tap Close All. On my Nexus 7 I have to manually tap the X
button or drag to the right on each app. As you've mentioned that still
probably leaves some stuff in memory that could then be cleared with
Force Close. Since the short usage list in Settings/More/Battery only
show one app (Maps, at 1%) consuming enough battery since my last reboot
to make the list, I'm presuming any CPU load is very light for
well-behaved apps like Avare. So I agree that closing other apps isn't
important, but I still do it. :)

[Dean Gibson ATP/CFI]

On 2016-01-27 00:27, John W SBA wrote:

storage memory

...

Might it be useful for new and prospective Avare users if a few intensive IFR transcontinental users posted their Avare memory usage numbers?  I'd be surprised if anyone is using more than 2GB, but maybe it's possible?

I've downloaded coverage for just Washington & Oregon (VFR/IFR/AFD/etc), and I'm showing 1.58GB in Avare.  Note that in Avare I always have TWO cycles loaded (current, and either next or previous), so the amount per cycle is 0.79GB.   For comparison, in Garmin Pilot it's 1.21 GB, and that's just one cycle (Garmin loads new cycles and deletes old ones automatically).

When I was doing my own IFR chart scheme on Android (just IFR Enroute-Low and TERPS, direct from the FAA), that occupied about 4GB per cycle.

One reason I keep my aviation files on microSD cards, is that Avare (and Garmin) write a LOT of files for each cycle.  Flash memory has a finite life span in terms of write cycles, and lots of files means lots of directory writes.  It's a lot cheaper to replace a worn-out microSD card, than worn-out internal storage.  I've only had to replace one microSD card (in well over a dozen), and that not because of failure, but it just got very slow.

[xcn...@gmail.com]

My application is showing 159 looking at it as John described. Under tools in Avare I see 73 of 128. What does this refer too?

Thanks for you patience. Nothing has been more inspirational to use this app than the mature responses shown in this thread. 

[John W SBA]

> files on microSD cards...*LOT* of files for each cycle.

I've wondered about write cycles too, and maybe that's what will finally
kill my antique v1 Nexus 7 (no SD card slot). Yet I've had two SD cards
fail and know of others, yet never an issue w/internal storage on any of
my five devices (nor heard of any). Internal storage surely gets vastly
more r/w cycles just running the OS. Maybe they use different (or
better quality?) chips for the internal storage?