$10 Dual-Band ADSB with Avare - Beta Testers Needed

[John SB]

Avare development partner Mike Hammer has just privately released a beta version of a new Avare ADSB app that currently enables free ADSB traffic displayed on Avare in flight, with a USB Software-Defined Radio (SDR) hardware dongle and adapter cable available online for about $9 to $25. Note that this is not a GPS. Right now it's single-band to display just ADSB traffic from the 1090 band (triggered by ADSB-Out, which is mostly used by jets these days), but dual-band capability is being investigated.

I have joined Mike's beta team and will be buying an SDR. I'll be writing up my process, and might also produce a uTube instructional video unless someone else (hopefully) does one.

If you'd like to make a major contribution to the Avare team, Mike's new ADSB team, and aviation in general I invite you to post a followup.

If you'd like to join the beta testing team on an app/device combo that's already been independently reported to work perfectly, insert JOIN at the front of your subject line so Mike can send you an invitation to join his team and install the Avare ADSB app.  Once you've done that and set up the USB SDR, you'll have ADSB traffic in flight on Avare.  In reading about the SDR needed for this app, I've seen reports of ADSB being received from aircraft hundreds of miles away and of many other uses for the SDR device (free OTA HDTV, FM, ham radio, and other broadcast content).  Of course, I've also read reports from people who couldn't get it to work but for $9-25 I'm taking the plunge and hoping to do my small part in dramatically bringing down the cost of uncertified ADSB in the cockpit.

The Avare ADSB app currently requires no permissions, and is both free and open source.

*Question: If a package is put together will all the required software and hardware for the current single-band ADSB on Avare, how much more would you pay beyond the actual parts cost? One option I've suggested is to seek a way of packaging everything along with instructions, for sale at volume cost plus handling fee either via an established online store like A/C Spruce or Amazon, or finding someone to do the handling and share a portion of the fee with the Avare team to support ongoing development.  There is currently no plan to charge for the app, and instructions will be made available online.  This cost+ idea would just be a potential way to make it much easier for aviators while offsetting expenses for the developers.

If there are replies and questions on this thread, I'll write up and post some information I've collected.  Meanwhile, here's an edited screen capture from Mike's currently private invitation-only Avare ADSB gPlay page:

[John SB]

Definitions
SDR: A combination of digital hardware and apps called Software-Defined Radio (SDR).  Cheap & fast digital microprocessor CPU and Analog Digital Converter (ADC) chips allow you to replace expensive hardware radios (e.g. ADSB receivers) with cheap digital hardware and apps like Avare ADSB. An SDR is versatile, being useful for radios such as a cheap multi-band (police, fire, etc.) scanner, or a single-frequency receiver like Avare ADSB.

RTLSDR: A very cheap SDR that uses a DVB-T TV (non-U.S. standard) USB dongle based on the RTL2832U (RTL+SDR = "RTLSDR") ADC & USB chipset combined with a radio tuner chip such as the Rafael Micro R820T, Elonics E4000, or Fitipower FC0013.  Apps for RTLSDR such as SDR# for Windows, Gqrx for Mac / Linux / FreeBSD, and SDR Touch for Android can be used to add other "radios" (such as scanners) to your use of an RTLSDR dongle when not using it for traffic display with Avare ADSB.

Tuner Chip Comparison
The dongles with an older E4000 tuner can receive 54-2200MHz (ADSB uses 1090MHz & 978MHz), but with a gap from about 1100-1250MHz. This gap being close to one of the ADSB channels could be a problem with some units.  The newer R820T chips go from 25-1700Mhz with no gap. The Fitipower FC0013 is limited to 22–1100 MHz. Antenna inputs are 75 Ohm impedance. USB 2 is required, 1.1 won't work (USB 3 ports work best with sample rates higher than 2.4 MS/s). The R820T uses about twice the USB power (0.3A) as the E4000. The bottom line is that the R820T seems to have become the most popular tuner chip chosen for inexpensive RTLSDR dongles. Note that some cheap dongles may not have the tuner chip advertised, and thus may not work well with the Avare ADSB app (please post a Reply about your experience using a particular dongle).

*This material is edited together from info found online, especially:
http://superkuh.com/rtlsdr.html
http://www.rtl-sdr.com/about-rtl-sdr

Update: I'm ordering this well-rated (hopefully true RTL2832U / R820T) $14 generic dongle on Amazon sold and shipped by NooElec in NY (China suppliers take up to a month in shipping). I'll post an Amazon review and a followup here once it arrives.

[Russ Wright]

I think I might have this device already.
Russ

[John SB]

Mike has created a Google Group for Avare ADSB Beta Testers. Right now it's purely used to get access to the app, not as a forum:
https://groups.google.com/d/forum/hiz-beta-testers

[Mike]

Once joined, access the app via the following link: https://play.google.com/apps/testing/bs.Avare.ADSB
Thanks for your support!

[John Wiley]

For anyone who has or is contemplating getting an SDR dongle and this
app, you might also want to check out the free new open source weather app:

http://sdrweather.thecongers.org/

<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.thecongers.sdrweather>

There are already a lot of cool computer apps for an SDR, and the number
of Android apps is growing very quickly.

[John Wiley]

> For anyone who has or is contemplating getting an SDR dongle

Note that because some Android devices (like my Nexus 7) don't allow
direct connection of USB devices you might also need an "OTG" adapter
like this:
http://www.amazon.com/IVSO%C2%AE-Nexus-Tablet-Micro-Cable/dp/B00932N46S

[Dan Wegman]

John SB, does the Nexus 7 have to be rooted for all of this to work? Mine isn't and the thought of rooting it makes me nervous.

[John Wiley]

> does the Nexus 7 have to be rooted

From what I've read, no. Apparently you just need a $5 cable called On
The Go (OTG - I didn't name it! :)

I see lots of them on Amazon. Some plug in so they come straight out of
the N7, some have either a right or left 90 degree plug at the N7 so the
wire's not in the way. Apparently though, all of the suppliers have
some bad cables so I'm buying several just to save time. The cool thing
is that the cable is also handy for connecting any USB device that
doesn't use too much power. There's an intro article here:
http://www.citeworld.com/article/2359449/mobile-byod/software-defined-radio-part-1-android-and-linux.html

[Christian Walter]

I was given access to the beta group... But now it says I don't have the permissions...

[Joe Leahy]

I have been running Avare on a Nexus 7 since the product was released.   I also run SDR Touch with the RTL dongle and USB-OTG.  I never though about combining the two for ADS-B.  If you need a tester let me know.  

[Mike]

Can you please verify the following steps:

• Request access to the beta group:
  https://groups.google.com/d/forum/hiz-beta-testers
• On the device you want to use for testing, open the following page and agree to become a Tester:
  https://play.google.com/apps/testing/bs.Avare.ADSB
• Follow the link "download it from the Play Store"

That should work..

There was a question if you need to root your device for this - you don't.

Regards, Mike

[Mike]

Hi Joe, testers are always welcome. I hope my driver won't clash with the SDR Touch one...

Regards, Mike

[Joe Leahy]

Watching traffic on my Moto-X in less than 5 minutes.  Painless.  I will test it in the air this weekend. 

[Bruce Bockius]

Working on the ground with http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CCQMTCM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1, a homemade antenna, and a Nexus 10! Very cool.

[Bruce Bockius]

Although the CRC error is 43%... Is that expected?

[Joe Leahy]

It should improve when you get in the air.  I get about 6% on the ground when connected to my omni-directional antenna on the house and the adapter below. 

http://www.amazon.com/DVB-T-RTL2832U-TV-DVB-MPEG-2-radio-WMA/dp/B00CM1MI2I/ref=sr_1_7?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1406159432&sr=1-7&keywords=rtl2832u

[Mike]

Hi all

Many thanks for all your feedback and support. I am happy to announce the beta test to be completed. The app has been promoted to prod state and should become available in the play store within the next few hours.

Regards, Mike

On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 12:37:05 AM UTC-4, John SB wrote:

[Freddy Williams]

I received an RTL-SDR in the mail today and was seeing traffic within a few minutes of opening the box. This is the one I recieved: Vantech DVB-T RTL-SDR SDR TV DAB FM Realtek RTL2832U R820T 50MHz-2200MHz for Windows 8 7

I'm using this to connect to a Samsung Galaxy S III: eForCity Micro USB OTG to USB 2.0 Adapter compatible with Samsung Galaxy S III/S3

I also have another on the way to try: RTL-SDR, FM+DAB, DVB-T USB Stick Set with RTL2832U & R820T. Great SDR for SDR#, HDSDR, and Other Popular SDR Software Packages!

I was concerned about battery power because the mini USB I use to charge with is where the ADS-B plugs in. I found this product Micro USB Host OTG Y-Cable with Micro USB Power for Samsung Phones and have it on the way to see if I'll be able to keep the phone powered while receiving the ADS-B signal.

Mike, will there be an option to tune it to receive the 978 UAT traffic and/or the Flight Information Services-Brief in the future? I'm happy to test anything if these are different devices than you have already.

Also, I'm not sure if this would be in Avare ADSB or in Avare External I/O Plugin but the ability to share the ADS-B data to another device would be great. I tried different settings between my phone and tablet messing around with it in case it was already there but no luck. My thinking is to have my phone stationary, since it will have a power chord and ADS-B antenna hooked up to it, in a good spot for GPS reception. It would then send my tablet in my lap or yoke the data it needs to give me a good display with solid GPS and ADS-B signals.

Thanks,

Freddy

On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 12:37:05 AM UTC-4, John SB wrote:

[doug trout]

Are we talking about jet traffic only?

[Christian Walter]

I'm curious about this as well... What type of traffic should I see? I'm seeing traffic, but only a few aircraft, not all of the ones that are on approach to Orlando International over my house. Just ground testing at the moment. Plan to take it to the air tomorrow morning

[joe.d...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, July 15, 2014 9:37:05 PM UTC-7, John SB wrote:

Right now it's single-band to display just ADSB traffic from the 1090 band (triggered by ADSB-Out, which is mostly used by jets these days), but dual-band capability is being investigated.

Dual-band capability and hence FIS-B weather and TFRs would be a "killer app" and is the capability that really excites me.  Personally, I'm not all that excited about traffic display on my tablet but would "kill" to be able to get METARS and NEXRAD.

Godspeed, Mike Hammer!

To answer John's question ("how much would I pay beyond the parts' cost") I would respond "whatever you want to charge".  I really, really, really want WX without paying half a kilobuck or more for a manufacturer's ADS-B box or worse yet, something requiring a subscription (Garmin, I'm looking at you.)

--
Joe
RV-8A

[Marc MERLIN]

On Saturday, July 26, 2014 10:21:29 AM UTC-7, joe.d...@gmail.com wrote:

To answer John's question ("how much would I pay beyond the parts' cost") I would respond "whatever you want to charge".  I really, really, really want WX without paying half a kilobuck or more for a manufacturer's ADS-B box or worse yet, something requiring a subscription (Garmin, I'm looking at you.)

Same here. Seeing traffic doesn't really excite me nearly as much as getting weather in flight.

If that is possible, this would be super uber cool, and I'd be happy to make a donation to whoever adds that code in.

Marc 

[John Wiley]

> Seeing traffic doesn't really excite me nearly as much

As has been mentioned, the app's current frequency is only showing a
very small portion of traffic (ADSB Out), nearly all of it commercial
jets. You can find a concise recent AOPA article here:
http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2014/July/Pilot/pe_technology
"...Think of 978MHz UAT as 'air to ground;' there is no traffic data
unless an ADS-B Out aircraft requests it from a ground station." That
data will be useful only if the ADSB Out plane is very near your
location, because the only traffic displayed will be near that plane.

The app is also basically useless unless you pay for the "pro" version
since the free version times out and requires a manual Restart. Then it
takes quite a while to re-acquire enough data to reliably show jets on
Avare. In actual flight you'd do far better (and be much safer) to just
look outside and ask ATC for flight following.

All that said, it's really exciting to see *any* ADSB traffic for an
investment of perhaps $15 and ten minutes to install and setup. The app
is quite easy to learn and use. It's truly *Wonderful* that this SDR
ADSB app is open source. That fact seems sure to greatly expand the
free and low cost ADSB options for Android devices going forward. Thank
you, Mike!

I've finally received the USB SDR and OTG cable from Amazon and plan to
post a full report about setting up the hardware and app, in a new topic
on this Forum.

If dual band or at least selectable band is added, it could be worth
buying the hardware. Hopefully the "pro" concept will be dropped,
switching to the donation and opt-in ad model that's so far working for
the free and vastly more useful Avare and I/O apps.

[Bruce Bockius]

I have a somewhat related question someone might be able to answer...   On my way back from Oshkosh I had Avare running, and linked to a Dual ADSB 976Mhz ADSB-In receiver.  Once past 30mi from Oshkosh (and at around 10,000 MSL if it matters) I turned on my mode C transponder.  Shortly afterward I looked at Avare and noticed traffic being reported _right_ at my location.  Because Avare displays the "own ship" icon top-most*, it was pretty hard to read the altitude, but eventually I figured it was pretty close to me... and eventually I figured out that it _was_ me.

But I don't understand how that was getting to Avare.  I'm not ADSB-Out equipped...  It later disappeared so I don't think either Avare or the ADSB receiver were "injecting" it...  so was a ground-based radar reporting my position and mode-c altitude and sending that out on ADSB?  I didn't know that was a possible data path, but can't come up with any other...

  -Bruce

*For my money I'd like to see traffic reports - particularly those at my altitude - top-most.  Actually having traffic near my altitude a different color, or perhaps outlined in, say, red, would be best.

[Marc MERLIN]

On Sun, Aug 03, 2014 at 04:47:01PM -0700, Bruce Bockius wrote:
> *For my money I'd like to see traffic reports - particularly those at my
> altitude - top-most. Actually having traffic near my altitude a different
> color, or perhaps outlined in, say, red, would be best.

Is traffic actually more important to you than in flight weather
updates?

I'd so much rather get those first. Flight following will give me
traffic, and hopefully so will my eyes. Seeing weather ahead and making
tactical decisions is a different ballgame without in flight weather.

Marc
--
"A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
Microsoft is to operating systems ....
.... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ | PGP 1024R/763BE901

[Bruce Bockius]

Oh, weather is much more important to me (and that's why I bought the Dual receiver).  I hope that Mike can get that to work on a $10 sdr stick... but I'm not sure it can be done.  It is on a different frequency than the 1090MHz traffic, and uses a significantly more sophisticated waveform than the traffic reports (or so I've been told, I'm not an RF guy).

   -Bruce

[John Wiley]

> radar reporting my position and mode-c altitude and sending that

Yes, that's my current understanding of the tangled mess FAA has created
with their final ADS-B implementation. Even though you don't have ADS-B
Out, if there are ADS-B Out aircraft within a defined distance and
altitude they will be transmitted to that "Out" aircraft and thus show
up on your "In" UAT (976Mhz) TIS-B (traffic) along with FIS-B (weather,
etc.). At OSH there were probably far more Out aircraft aloft and
nearby than you're likely to see anywhere else other than a Class B area.

In that scenario, the solutions would be to either turn off ADS-B
traffic in Avare Prefs or deal with the overlap. Presumably at some
point as this very unusual scenario becomes more common due to more Out
aircraft, Avare will have some option for eliminating "own" from display.

Hopefully someone who understands ADS-B better than I will also chime in
and correct or supplement my current understanding. The two main
sources I've used lately are both linked in the SDR article I recently
posted to the Avare website, in case you'd like some further details.

[John Wiley]

> more sophisticated waveform

Thanks for mentioning that. My impression has been that the RF
modulation isn't an issue, but there's vastly more data transmitted on
the UAT frequency. So decoding that is much more work than the
relatively small amount of data in an aircraft location TIS-B (traffic)
frame. Also, since so few planes currently have 1090ES Out, the amount
of data to process is much smaller. My current understanding is that
UAT contains all or nearly all of that TIS-B data plus all the FIS-B data.

[Zubair Khan]

Hi Bruce, Guys

The ghost image can be fixed.
Will look into it.

Thanks for the report.
Z

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Zubair Khan
apps4av.com
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Sudbury, MA 01776

[Zubair Khan]

ADSB (TIS-B traffic / weather) without ADSB out is not very useful. I have reports from pilots in less dense areas that they never get traffic or weather.

See this:

Unfortunately, it’s not that simple–you will only receive this TIS-B information if you are equipped with ADS-B Out. The FAA wants to encourage pilots to equip their airplane with ADS-B Out, so they’re requiring this equipment in order to receive traffic information. Their hope is that this incentive gets more airplanes flying with ADS-B Out, sooner. Many pilots think this is a bad idea, but regardless, it’s the way the system works right now.

All is not lost, though. If you do not have ADS-B Out, but you are flying near another airplane that is transmitting ADS-B Out, you can be a parasite. That is, you can listen in on that airplane’s traffic message and display nearby airplanes on your iPad. That’s because each ADS-B Out airplane receives back an ADS-B In traffic package from the ground stations, and it is specifically tailored to their location. In particular, that ADS-B Out airplane will see all traffic within a 15 mile radius and +/-3500 feet:

So if you’re flying in that “hockey puck” close to a participating airplane, you will have traffic uplinked from the ground, in addition to the air-to-air traffic. This is the best case scenario, as you have free traffic that rivals a $15,000 active traffic system. But as you can imagine, staying within 15 miles and 3500 feet of an ADS-B Out airplane can be a serious limitation.

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[Peter Gustafson]

Hey guys,

Going into and out of OSH while using the DUAL XGPS170 (testing for the first time on a XC flight), I was able to get the GPS data packets but didn't appear to get traffic nor weather (nor anything else really).

Admittedly, while near osh, I never looked at my tablet as I was strictly focused on navigating and visual traffic avoidance.  So perhaps I wouldn't have seen the TIS-B traffic on-screen if it were available.

Do I have to do anything to get the FIS-B weather data on screen? I zoomed out to state+ level 4 or 5 times over the two hour flight to see nexrad blips on the map screen.  I never saw one.  I did check the "Use ADSB Weather" checkbox and assumed at least a little "noise" would show even without any significant precip nearby.  There is always some blip on the radar. 

I never checked winds aloft... perhaps if I tried pulling those from the map interface I would have confirmed weather was working?

Without assurance of useful data until 2000ft agl... debugging this is difficult.

Thanks,
Pete

[Bruce Bockius]

Also make sure the Dual is in ADSB mode... the first click of the power switch is just GPS.

FWIW, I am using a $17 belly mount transponder antenna, so that might be helping me also. I was pleasantly surprised to start receiving wx data while still sitting on the ground between two rows of hangars... There must be assn ADSB uplink station nearby Colorado Springs.

[Richard Stigall]

You can find "unofficial" tower locations from:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/58910037/user_waypoints.kml

as discussed in this thread:

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67935

On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Bruce Bockius <bruce....@gmail.com> wrote:

Also make sure the Dual is in ADSB mode... the first click of the power switch is just GPS.

FWIW, I am using a $17 belly mount transponder antenna, so that might be helping me also. I was pleasantly surprised to start receiving wx data while still sitting on the ground between two rows of hangars... There must be assn ADSB uplink station nearby Colorado Springs.

[John Wiley]

> perhaps I wouldn't have seen the TIS-B traffic on-screen

Maybe that's a factor. When I was testing the SDR, it took me a while
to notice the light gray traffic indications when I was sitting in my
easy chair looking for them. I guess eventually we might consider some
sort of "smart traffic" display that emphasizes potential conflicts and
allows user selection of less relevant targets.

When I tested the XGPS170 flying at and within ~20nm of fairly busy
Class C SBA Class C, it showed zero traffic on the ground or aloft. The
only time it showed traffic was within about 10 miles of CMA, maybe due
to Pt.Mugu NAS and/or LA Basin heavies transitioning. In contrast, the
SDR shows traffic indoors here at home ~4nm from SBA because it's
getting 1090ES broadcast air-to-ground from the big commercial traffic.
So apparently the XGPS170 doesn't receive (or we're not displaying)
that 1090ES, and we only see UAT TIS-B triggered by ADS-B Out.

> state+ level 4 or 5 times over the two hour flight to see nexrad

When I had the XGPS170 I'd often see moisture depicted even with clear
sky, and ADDS sat showing clear. With XGPS170 on indoors here for a
while, I'd often see such ADSB "wx." Maybe there's some variation in
how ground stations show moisture (different radars?), or when the UAT
channel is busy they throttle wx data transmitted when a region is CAVU?
Just the UAT TIS-B must've been hopping anywhere near OSH during
arrivals & departures. Have you seen it working on more routine flights?

> Without assurance of useful data

Maybe some day add an option for indicators so users can see receiver
data at a glance? Could be two small dots (a "T" one for TIS-B, and "F"
one for FIS-B) that change color when a certain amount of data is
received. Green within 10 minutes, orange until 20, red over 30, with
"T" and/or "F" in an empty circle over 45. Touch the dot area and a
detailed 1-screen receiver log report pops up. Obviously another low
priority item until more people have ADSB (UAT SDR?), but maybe worth
adding to the long list.

[Zubair Khan]

Ron added KML parsing to Avare. If you can compile the latest code, you can load this antenna KML file and see where the towers are in the app. Will release this feature shortly.

Z

[Michael Smith]

Hi, gang:

So does this solution only provide traffic, and not weather? I went to a REALLY good forum about ADS-B while at Airventure last week. The presentation is available as a PDF from Seattle Avionics:

http://seattleavionics.com/documents/allthingsadsb.pdf

I HIGHLY recommend downloading and reading it. What an eye opener! We got a lot of info the FAA and the hardware manufacturers don't really tell you about. Not sure how this information affects the proposed ADSB for Avare, but I would guess it would be the same.

Here are a few very watered down points:

- ADS-B is good for weather
- If you only have ADS-B "in" (like all the portable units) then you are getting someone else's traffic info, not yours! If you only have ADS-B "in" it is recommended you DO NOT USE the traffic information. You could have 6 targets 200' from you and closing and they may never show up.
- If you have dual band (978 & 1090) and ADS-B "out" then you will get all the traffic ATC sees. No portable devices have "out" and never will.
- When ADS-B "out" is required, a Mode C transponder will STILL be required! ADS-B equipment does not take the place of a transponder. Manufacturers are working on combined solutions, or you can keep your transponder in parallel with your ADS-B.
- A certified ADS-B "out" must have a WAAS-enabled GPS connected for position information. Some equipment will have it built in. Others will take the WAAS GPS signal from one of your other devices. So make sure you know what you're getting.
- Seattle Avionics estimates a cost of $4,000 for ADS-B out hardware, plus installation!
- Experimental aircraft builders can install the ADS-B hardware themselves, but it will still have to be tested and certified to standards, just like a transponder.

Mike Smith
Maynard, MA

[John Wiley]

> info the FAA and the hardware manufacturers don't really tell you

Yes! It's quite a mess, and many avionix companies are taking advantage
of the confusion.

> Here are a few very watered down points

All of your points agree with what I found in reading the various PDFs
I've cited.

> only have ADS-B "in" it is recommended you DO NOT USE the traffic

Some say it's still helpful IF it doesn't keep you from looking outside,
because it shows many of the fast movers - especially in Class B airspace.

> No portable devices have "out" and never will.

Sadly true BUT, with the minimal Out/transponder *all* the In goodies
will show up on the Mike Hammer dual band solution in Avare. That's why
even single-band SDR UAT is a killer app if you can get it to work.
Some companies don't want us to know we don't need panel integration
that costs vastly more and ties us to their proprietary products. Many
informed owners (and AB) would rather spend a fraction of what panel In
costs, and have compatibility with Avare and other great apps. With the
low cost of WAAS GPS chips, integrated Out transponders without panel
connectivity will almost certainly get much cheaper in the next couple
of years. I think some are already plug compatible with the racks of
our antique Mode C units though they'll still require extra wiring for
ADSB & GPS antennas.

> Seattle Avionics estimates a cost of $4,000 for ADS-B out hardware

Already cheaper than a year ago. It's integrating In to the panel
that's an expensive nightmare.

[Bruno MARTIN]

ADSB traffic in A are is hard to see. The planes are black with altitude on top. This makes it hard to spot them. Here is a screen shot at San Jose, CA. There is a plane taking off (West of the airport) and one coming in for landing (East of the airport).

Maybe traffic planes should be shown in a different color like bright blue or something that is not on the chart, maybe it would be easier to spot the traffic.

On Tuesday, July 15, 2014 9:37:05 PM UTC-7, John SB wrote:

[Zubair Khan]

Hi Bruno
Noted and will be done soon.
Zubair

--

[Bruno MARTIN]

Hi Zubair,

After putting a bit more thought into it.  I would suggest ADSB traffic to be Yellow as Yellow is only used for town on VFR charts with the altitude on top in black highlighted in Yellow.

Bruno

[Zubair Khan]

I was thinking about magenta / green triangles.

Z

[Rap McBurney]

I've been reading this from the sidelines.  AVARE is great, been using it for several months.  Sent a donation.  The tracking is identical to my Garmin primary, the weather is ok, not great but the price more than makes up for any shortcomings.  I'm not techno, so if traffic/ADS-B "in" equivalent can be packaged (hardware, software, and instructions) for my Nexus 7 for something near $100, I'm a buyer.  ZK:  Keep up the good work.

Unclerap

[Bud Livada]

On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 12:37:05 AM UTC-4, John SB wrote:

Avare development partner Mike Hammer has just privately released a beta version of a new Avare ADSB app that currently enables free ADSB traffic displayed on Avare in flight, with a USB Software-Defined Radio (SDR) hardware dongle and adapter cable available online for about $9 to $25. Note that this is not a GPS. Right now it's single-band to display just ADSB traffic from the 1090 band (triggered by ADSB-Out, which is mostly used by jets these days), but dual-band capability is being investigated.

I have joined Mike's beta team and will be buying an SDR. I'll be writing up my process, and might also produce a uTube instructional video unless someone else (hopefully) does one.

If you'd like to make a major contribution to the Avare team, Mike's new ADSB team, and aviation in general I invite you to post a followup.

If you'd like to join the beta testing team on an app/device combo that's already been independently reported to work perfectly, insert JOIN at the front of your subject line so Mike can send you an invitation to join his team and install the Avare ADSB app.  Once you've done that and set up the USB SDR, you'll have ADSB traffic in flight on Avare.  In reading about the SDR needed for this app, I've seen reports of ADSB being received from aircraft hundreds of miles away and of many other uses for the SDR device (free OTA HDTV, FM, ham radio, and other broadcast content).  Of course, I've also read reports from people who couldn't get it to work but for $9-25 I'm taking the plunge and hoping to do my small part in dramatically bringing down the cost of uncertified ADSB in the cockpit.

The Avare ADSB app currently requires no permissions, and is both free and open source.

*Question: If a package is put together will all the required software and hardware for the current single-band ADSB on Avare, how much more would you pay beyond the actual parts cost? One option I've suggested is to seek a way of packaging everything along with instructions, for sale at volume cost plus handling fee either via an established online store like A/C Spruce or Amazon, or finding someone to do the handling and share a portion of the fee with the Avare team to support ongoing development.  There is currently no plan to charge for the app, and instructions will be made available online.  This cost+ idea would just be a potential way to make it much easier for aviators while offsetting expenses for the developers.

If there are replies and questions on this thread, I'll write up and post some information I've collected.  Meanwhile, here's an edited screen capture from Mike's currently private invitation-only Avare ADSB gPlay page:

join 

[Tal Reichert]

Hi Mike,

1. Counter-example (i.e. portable device with ADS-B out), currently does not meet the FAA mandate (though it may in the future), but it does provide full traffic: http://adsb.skyguardtwx.com/uat-transceivers/

2. Just FYI/fineprint - the ADS-B out mandate can also be met by installing Mode S/ES (extended squitter), which will not provide you with the same benefits as ADS-B out (i.e. traffic in your area will not be re-broadcasted).

Tal

[John Wiley]

>> Avare development partner Mike Hammer has just privately released a beta

> join

Thanks for offering to help, Bud. The beta testing has been finished
for quite some time now, so volunteers for that project are no longer
needed. Everything related to ADS-B seems to be moving more and more
quickly. Mike now offers free and paid versions of his app. But it
currently only works on 1090 TIS, so though it will often work on the
ground you'll typically only see airliners.

To get much more useful weather, TFRs and more *plus* TIS you'll need a
978MHz UAT receiver. So far I don't know of anyplace to get one of
those for less than $500 or so. Mike was recently looking into options
to produce one that would be less expensive, but I don't know if he's
still working on it.

I'm also toying with the idea of building a UAT that would probably cost
about $50 DIY but haven't yet found anyone else to work with on it.
Detailed open plans and open source software are available, but I'd like
to work with at least one or two other people to help each other and
save some money on parts. If that ever happens, my goal is to write
detailed instructions and invite others to join the effort. If that
happened, I'd then put together kits to sell at cost. If that went
well, I'd look into selling assembled units at cost. If none of these
things happen, I'll probably just keep waiting like everyone else hoping
for a UAT in the $100-200 range.

Happy Flying -j

[Bruno MARTIN]

Today for the second time I used avare with the $10 ADSB. Coming back towards the Class B of San Francisco it was great to see the airlines coming in. This allowed for much better planning for wake turbulence.

One issue though, planes that terminate their flights remain shown after even 1 hour. I think a plane that does not get updated after 5 min should be removed from the map.

Anyway, this is very helpful in busy airspace. Thanks guys for your hard work.

On Tuesday, July 15, 2014 9:37:05 PM UTC-7, John SB wrote:

[John Wiley]

> Class B of San Francisco it was great to see the airlines coming in.

Cool. Thanks for posting, because I've been intending to use it in the
LA basin that way.

> plane that does not get updated after 5 min should be removed from the map.

I'd like to clarify that Mike Hammer's ADSB Receiver app wasn't created
by the Avare team, nor is it maintained by the Avare team. Mike Hammer
performs those roles, and I presume you can contact him via the gPlay
entry for his app.

Avare and the Avare I/O helper app handle the code from open standard
devices and apps to display ADS-B and other data such as GPS and FAA
material. To me one of the best things about Avare is that unlike many
similar apps, all the Avare apps are open source, free, and use industry
standards for interacting with devices and apps.

It's inspiring to me that the Avare team has accomplished so much in
such a short time, and I'm glad that people like Mike Hammer have also
created and shared useful aviation apps based on open standards and
collaboration.

Happy Flying -j

[Greg Goodknight]

Catching up, sorry for a late reply:

On Friday, August 29, 2014 10:38:40 PM UTC-7, Tal Reichert wrote:

Hi Mike,

1. Counter-example (i.e. portable device with ADS-B out), currently does not meet the FAA mandate (though it may in the future), but it does provide full traffic: http://adsb.skyguardtwx.com/uat-transceivers/

I do not expect any portable device, including that one, to ever meet the 2020 mandate for ADS-B out, especially considering the absolute agony the FAA is requiring manufacturers to undergo to get STCs for certified ADS-B out installations to be legal for 2020. To enter Class A you will need a certified 1090ES and to enter Class B or C (I forget... is D also mandated?) you will need not only the equipment certified to be ADSB out, you will also need the installation to be certified. It's much the same for IFR GPS installations... when shopping for an airplane 6+ years ago, a certified install of at least an enroute IFR gps navigator was on my short list of requirements. A number of times an OK but not wonderful GPS was in the panel and the conversation would go something like this:

"Is the XXX gps installation certified for IFR?"
--- "Yes, the XXX is certified for IFR"
"So, you have the STC signed off for the installation?"
--- "Umm, no, but it wouldn't be hard for you to do it"

Guess what? Buying a plane like that could easily cost you many $K extra at the avionics shop. And the plane I ended up buying ended up spending time in the avionics shop before the sale completed to actually get the paperwork done the seller claimed he had, but never did. It also needed a new GPS antenna because the STC it was being approved under required a different antenna than the earlier paperwork which was to be finished off by a flight test with the installing A&P. And yes, the previous owner had been flying /G IFR without a legal GPS; had there been an accident, many insurers would smack their lips and decline the claims.
 

2. Just FYI/fineprint - the ADS-B out mandate can also be met by installing Mode S/ES (extended squitter), which will not provide you with the same benefits as ADS-B out (i.e. traffic in your area will not be re-broadcasted).

That is completely incorrect. Either UAT out or 1090ES out will cause TIS-B to be transmitted in the area (all the hardware and software to do that may already be in place in the ITT operated TIS-B equipment), and TIS-B (on 978) includes all received 978 & 1090 ADSB aircraft transmits, along with Mode A/C/S transponder aircraft picked up by ATC radar (that will still exist outside of controlled airspace after 2020).

I get TIS now via my Mode S/1090ES transponder when in Mode S service areas like much of NorCal Approach, Las Vegas Approach and SoCal Approach, the only ones I've been through with my current avionics. It also has everything ATC knows about that is near enough for them to think I want it.

IIRC the TIS-B system ITT had in place when the 2020 mandate was first released apparently didn't trigger TIS-B for 1090ES out aircraft but it absolutely is in the mandate and, as I mentioned, I believe that functionality is already rolled out and in place.

The functionality we need, the functionality the high end units, like the Sagetech or Garmin, already provide, is reception of 1090ES or UAT packets from other aircraft, reception of the area TIS-B transmitted from the ground which will contain information from packets they received directly from other aircraft (unless they are not being received by the ground equipment or it is out of service) and reception of  FIS-B flight information.

Tal

On Sunday, August 10, 2014 10:12:30 PM UTC-4, Michael Smith wrote:

- If you have dual band (978 & 1090) and ADS-B "out" then you will get all the traffic ATC sees.

No!!! You just need ANY ADSB out to turn it on, and be able to receive and display 978MHz TIS-B in, to get all the traffic ATC knows about. 

If you have just 978 UAT in  you will get everything ATC sees if you are receiving TIS-B.  What dual band "in" gives you is being able to receive packets directly from other aircraft, very useful if you are both at a low enough altitude (or in any kind of a shadow, including airframes) that your packets are not getting to the ITT equipment, nor is their output being received. It's also useful if the network goes TU.

-Greg

[Bruno MARTIN]

Hi John,

Today I checked some more during a flight at KOAK. The airplane were not disappearing. I then turned off in flight Avare ADSB pro and airplane remained. Once I turned off Avare I/O then planes disappeared.

I think either Avare itself or A are I/O needs to remove older tags. I should have taken a screenshot with plane stacking up at ~500ft on the ILS of 28 in SFO.

Bruno

[John Wiley]

> turned off in flight Avare ADSB pro and airplane remained.

I'd like to again clarify that the ADSB app is not developed or
maintained by the non-profit open source Apps4Av team that created and
maintains Avare. I think the ADSB app's name has been changed to
reflect that on gPlay, but haven't checked. I do know that a formal
request was made to the ADSB developer to make that change some time
ago, so it's probably been done for the current versions. If I'm
mistaken in any of this, hopefully someone with more info (and time)
will post a followup.

> I think either Avare itself or A are I/O needs to remove older tags.

Thanks for pointing that out. My impression is that Avare can be
changed so that static data is removed from the display automatically,
and I agree that's an important feature. Hopefully someone on the
coding team will take note and add an action item to the update list,
and/or provide more info/context.

> plane stacking up at ~500ft on the ILS of 28 in SFO.

Long before starting to fly I used to park my car up on Skyline and
watch the SFO air traffic. How much more fun that would be now with my
Nexus 7 and handheld av transceiver! :)

Thanks for the followup report, and for pointing out the latency issue.

Happy Flying -j

[Matt Lawrence]

This thread is titled "DUAL-BAND".  However everything I'm reading here says it is only single band (1090ES).  Am I missing something here?

[John Wiley]

> This thread is titled "DUAL-BAND". However everything I'm reading here
> says it is only single band (1090ES). Am I missing something here?

Yes:

>> Right now it's single-band to display
>> just ADSB traffic from the 1090 band (triggered by ADSB-Out, which is
>> mostly used by jets these days), but dual-band capability is being
>> investigated.

Still being investigated, but now looking unlikely to me that we'll see
it in the near term. If Mike doesn't post a reply on that, I suggest
you contact him directly.

[Mike]

Correct, the current solution is single-band 1090ES only. We are still working in the background on a possible UAT solution, but it is very challenging. We will keep this forum posted! Please do not expect any quick results, this will take a long time.

Regards, Mike

[Mike]

On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 2:11:12 AM UTC-4, John SB wrote:

> turned off in flight Avare ADSB pro and airplane remained.

I'd like to again clarify that the ADSB app is not developed or
maintained by the non-profit open source Apps4Av team that created and
maintains Avare.  I think the ADSB app's name has been changed to
reflect that on gPlay, but haven't checked.  I do know that a formal
request was made to the ADSB developer to make that change some time
ago, so it's probably been done for the current versions.  If I'm
mistaken in any of this, hopefully someone with more info (and time)
will post a followup.

That's correct, I have changed the name in the play store to "ADSB Receiver" but the app is still called Avare ADSB. The receiver part is maintained by me and I will answer support requests here and via the email available in the play store. There are some feature requests on the list, which I am planing to add to Avare directly in future.
 

> I think either Avare itself or A are I/O needs to remove older tags.

Thanks for pointing that out.  My impression is that Avare can be
changed so that static data is removed from the display automatically,
and I agree that's an important feature.  Hopefully someone on the
coding team will take note and add an action item to the update list,
and/or provide more info/context.

This should actually be the case already and worked fine initially. I just tested this again, there seems to be a problem. A display request is only sent to the Avare IO Helper after a new packet for the related object has been received. Each request contains a timestamp, which is used to remove objects after a timeout. This works fine on the Google Map in Avare ADSB, any object not being updated within 2 minutes will be removed from the map. But I see objects for a very long time in Avare, even after stopping the IO Helper app. I even see them after restarting Avare. After a while, they are removed. I will look into this.

Regards, Mike

[Mike]

Hi Bruno, I can confirm this, the planes are shown for too long in Avare. I will look into this.

Regards, Mike

[Mike]

Hi Bruno

Zubair did some of his magic: the latest version of Avare and the IO Helper fixes this. The objects are now removed after one minute, if no packets have been received.

Regards, Mike

[Joe G]

Works like a charm! yep, for about $10-15 bucks you see the big boys all over the place. Works foerme, but connecting power to my tablet with junctions to alleviate battery usage has been a task. I don't really use it just to see airliners flying around  while flying, but I did buy it off of Ebay just for kicks and giggles and yep, it does work!

[Joe G]

My DVB+T+DAB+FM dongle works excellent. See 1090Es aircraft all over Denver Bravo and beyond just sitting in my house. Still searching for a good USB power hub that will work. Bought one, but no avail to work the FM dongle and keep my Samsung Galaxy Tab S charged. Any suggestions for a USB power hub?? Also, do purchase the Avare ADSB Pro version. The free one is only limited to 500 packets and the Pro version costs next to nothing.

[JoesPiper]

Any luck with a micro charging hub and SDR OTG??  I am having trouble as well to charge and use the SDR at the same time.