Flight Planning

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ThatAviationGuy

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Sep 11, 2022, 1:53:02 PM9/11/22
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It is quite possible this feature already exists, but it would be nice if the flight planning mode would automatically find a route (other than direct) with just a departure and destination airport. I know many other services do this, and it would be a significant quality of life improvement over manual entry of all waypoints.  

John W 4sba

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Sep 11, 2022, 3:46:07 PM9/11/22
to ThatAviationGuy, Apps4Av Forum
> nice if the flight planning mode would automatically find a route

Yes indeed. Though there are plenty of other features in money-based
apps that would be even nicer to have in Avare. Plus, it could be
problematic if the automatic route missed something we'd take into
account in manual planning. Often I've found it quite helpful to
manually plan a route taking into account things the app wouldn't know,
like alternate or emergency landing options (I prefer farmland to
forest, for example). Seems to me that flight planning is best done by
the pilot, if only for more familiarity and situational awareness during
the flight (and for me, also scenic considerations). Many of my routes
are flown more than once, so having the Plans saved and now
export/import capable amply meets my needs.

More important than all that though, are two factors I like to keep in mind:
*Unlike paid or ad-supported apps, Avare is completely free and
created/supported by an amazing group of unpaid volunteers I like to
call our Dev Team (even though the most hours are devoted to ongoing
updates of charts and keeping the code compatible with Google's annoying
heavy hand). The fundamental policy that keeps our Dev Team active is:
Do What You Want, When You Want. So often they'll add a feature I don't
want, need or use. What's amazing (and for me heartwarming), is that
they'll often add a feature *they* don't want, need or use like perhaps
your interesting request.

*Adding any new feature is risky. Since we all depend on Avare's
remarkable stability and vastly broad compatibility across so many
devices and Android versions, adding even a tiny new feature runs the
risk of creating unwanted problems in some obscure place in the code.
The amount of care and testing that goes into every change in Avare code
is inspiring when we again recall that everyone doing it is an unpaid
volunteer.

All these words aside, each and every suggestion, request, bug report or
concern is welcomed and taken into account. So as another lowly user
who'd enjoy seeing my own dreams for Avare implemented - Thank You. :)

ThatAviationGuy

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Sep 11, 2022, 3:50:00 PM9/11/22
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Yes. I can understand why it is could be a very difficult integration as I don't fully understand myself how automatic planning works. If it were to be implemented I would certainly want that ability for the pilot to enter it fully manually and tweak it as they wish. For me, my routes are not common as its often just a family vacation, so manual entry is a little harder. All that said, Avare is a great app :).

John W 4sba

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Sep 11, 2022, 6:16:56 PM9/11/22
to ThatAviationGuy, Apps4Av Forum
> my routes are not common ... so manual entry is a little harder

Understood, and I like the idea. Just reminding myself and anyone else
offering ideas or requests, that there's a lot of volunteer labor
involved in any new features that adds to the work in just maintaining
the great app we're being given. I *try* to keep this in mind when
mustering the courage to submit a brief description of a feature, my
uninformed notion of the work required, its relevance to a wide spectrum
of users, and the fact it's likely to add one more thing on a long list
of widely useful features. Even requests already on the list that
"seem" easy, like my own to narrow the boxes around the bottom row page
Tabs, are unlikely. In an emergency maybe a tiny help if my wife has the
Near tab visible at the right edge of the 7" tablet on her kneeboard.

Chip Davis

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Sep 11, 2022, 7:34:48 PM9/11/22
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For true flight planning ahead of time (not inflight reroutes) I use the little tool in Skyvector.  I start by entering my endpoints, then Skyvector shows me all the reasons why a direct route won't work.  So I scroll around its sectional charts checking controlled airspaces, terrain, SUA's, and most importantly, fuel prices.  It will tell me to the minute how much it will affect my time enroute if I stop at an alternate airport with cheaper fuel.  Once I have the list of waypoints, it's trivial to pop them into Avare, and I'm off.

On my last trip (KOSH) diverting what looked like a significant distance to get fuel 55¢ cheaper, added only three minutes to my overall 8-hr flight time.

-Chip-

Roger R

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Sep 11, 2022, 11:05:07 PM9/11/22
to Chip Davis, Apps4Av Forum
On long cross countries especially multi leg I use Skyvector for planning too. It is a great tool. Once you register you input all your acft info incuding climb and descent data-time and fuel usages for these-so it gives  more accurate fuel info than just point to point enroute. 

The options for fastest route and cheapest route are informative. You can modify these too based on displayed fuel prices. It is surprising how little extra time or distance is required to divert somewhat for better fuel prices. What looks like a large diversion on 'paper' usually turns out to be a very small % and most likely pays for itself in better fuel prices.

As said before once you find a route that works, just plug it into Avare.

Getting back to the orig posting I don't  see how Avare can pick out/know what routes you might want anyway. For instance for me in MMV, Oregon, day vfr only, going to a friend's in BZN, MT, I can go N over I-5 or direct E over the mtns if I am feeling lucky or S via BOI and I-84.  These are widely disparate routes but for my situation the best. Routing may be entirely diff for an IFR capable Bonanza, Then of course wx and fuel and so many other considerations such as IFR---I follow roads---come into play. To me serious flight planning and route choosing even with tools starts with the pilot.

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Roger R

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Sep 11, 2022, 11:26:45 PM9/11/22
to Chip Davis, Apps4Av Forum
Corr to my previous....I-90, not I-5.

ThatAviationGuy

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Sep 11, 2022, 11:44:10 PM9/11/22
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Let me clarify a little. I have never used Skyvector, but now that I know about it it will be my go to. As to the original post I am not really speaking for VFR flight plans, for those are not easy or practical to automate. I'm talking about IFR as that is far more predictable and consistent. If you use Skyvector it probably gives you a route that is likely to be approved by ATC automatically as apposed to a direct. This is a feature in most paid, full EFBs meaning it can be done, but I don't know how. (Yes I understand that Avare is volunteer based, and I understand if this feature is not high on the priority list as there are other workarounds). I am just saying this would be a nice to have for lots of IFR pilots.

John W 4sba

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Sep 12, 2022, 2:39:34 AM9/12/22
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> I am just saying this would be a nice to have for lots of IFR pilots.

I agree fwiw, and again appreciate your having requested it.

Peter A. Gustafson

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Sep 12, 2022, 9:10:43 AM9/12/22
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Yes this is possible.  The FAA publishes a preferred routes database (I think quarterly).

If you have a github account, please file a github issue and forward the email to me.  I can get the database into the next release.  However, the app won't be able to use it until the feature is implemented in app.

We'll figure something out.

ThatAviationGuy

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Sep 12, 2022, 9:21:00 AM9/12/22
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Ok will do. 

Timothy Adam

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Sep 12, 2022, 12:31:53 PM9/12/22
to John W 4sba, ThatAviationGuy, Apps4Av Forum
For "automatically finding a route", the free websites
and
come close to that.  It's still up to the pilot to choose and make final decisions as to the most suitable route, though.

When you enter the Departure and Destination airports on either of those websites, the site has a utility to list routes that have previously been approved by ATC so you get some good suggested routes to consider.
The FltPlan Go app which is available free for Android and also for iOS devices, integrates with fltplan.com
so you create the flight plan on the fltplan.com website and then you can easily use it in the FltPlan Go app.

Is there presently a straightforward way to import such a flight plan from either of those websites, into Avare?  If so, that might be the best way to achieve something fairly close to having Avare suggest the flight plan route.


With best regards,

Tim




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purdu...@gmail.com

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Sep 12, 2022, 2:37:43 PM9/12/22
to Timothy Adam, John W 4sba, ThatAviationGuy, Apps4Av Forum

I use Skyvector to create plans, export them as a gpx file, transfer it to my tablet, zip it, and then import it into Avare. Not exactly straightforward, but it works. You can do multiple plans in the zipped file.

 

John

bchar...@gmail.com

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Sep 12, 2022, 4:29:44 PM9/12/22
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Can you go into detail on where you put it on the tablet for Avare to read it?

Tnx,

purdu...@gmail.com

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Sep 12, 2022, 4:58:48 PM9/12/22
to bchar...@gmail.com, Apps4Av Forum

I put it in the same folder where Avare places the exported files (in my case it is my “Downloads/com.ds.avare” folder on the internal memory).

Apps4av Support

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Sep 12, 2022, 9:26:54 PM9/12/22
to John Lumkes, Timothy Adam, John W 4sba, ThatAviationGuy, Apps4Av Forum
We need a better way to import plans from skyvector if that's the choice for most users.

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