Avare Ifr PlateMode chart error

[Edgar W]

Avare Ifr PlateMode chart error

Using Avare for a ifr approach in PlateMode when in the holding pattern, inbound to the holding fix; uncommanded, Avare changed the Plate from the active Ifr Approach in PlateMode to the nearest airport ifr approach plate; no notice --- nothing, just changed.

Flying 5 consecutive practice approachs, Avare made this change on 2 of the 5 approaches.

Is anyone using Avare in PlateMode to fly IfrApproach with a hold and having this kind of problem?s

[Jeffrey Ross]

Not sure I understand what you mean by "in Platemode" vs "ifr approach plate"

Can you be a little more descriptive, what screens did you have up, what was loaded (if anything) as an active flight plane, what screen changed, what did it change to, what were you expecting?

Jeff

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[t v]

Hi.

>> to the nearest airport ifr approach plate<<

What Plate, airport?...

Do you  intend to say the Airport diagram? If true make sure that you do not have the feature to display the diagram in Preferences, but that should not occur in flight. TV

[Edgar W]

Jeff:

" Not sure I understand what you mean by "in Platemode" vs "ifr approach plate"  "

PlateMode = Tap Plate and select Airport =  RioVista  O88; then select Ifr Approach = Rnav Gps 25; then ActivateApproach Tap AP. Plate is nicely displayed on Screen with a airplane symbol maintaining current position.

For some reason on 2 of the 5 approaches ; when on the hold at Wager and on both occasions, inbound on the hold to Wager; Avare automatically changed the IfrPlate from RioVista O88 Gps 25 to Lodi (103) Rnav (GPS) - B.

Flew 5 consecutive approaches to test fly changed equipment. On two approaches Avare abondoned the O88 approach and with no notice of any kind activated and displayed the Lodi Ifr Plate. Lodi is the closest airport to Wager and only has one approach.

On the first error, while checking everything flew a little long in the hold leg, 5.5nm instead of 4nm; thinking there was something in Avare that would trigger the change due to being long in the hold, repeated the long hold but Avare did not abandon O88 approach on the second long hold. But Avare did abandon the O88 approach on one of the other approaches that was within 4nm of Wager.

In PlateMode or Ifr approach plate; the center button does not center the airplane symbol on the PlateScreen, so maybe there is something wrong with my Samsung Tab A.

Any Avare users using Avare when flying Ifr approach in Plate Mode having uncommanded Plate change?

[Jeffrey Ross]

Although I know it doesn't help your issue but keep in mind the "AP" button is considered experimental, it is noted as such when you activate the "approach mode", this feature should simply copy the approach waypoints to your current flightplan, so I don't know why it is changing which plate is displayed.

I understand not everybody does things the same way so what I might find unimportant might be very important to somebody else, and since I personally don't use what you call "approach mode" I can't comment on its functionality or usefulness, I figure between the required onboard navigation equipment and then just looking at the plan view of the plate with a georeferenced position there is more than enough information, plus once I'm inbound, I am more interested in the profile view anyway at that point.  I can't say why it would switch to Lodi, but could Avare think you should be sequencing to the next waypoint?  Might you need to pause the flight sequencing?  Once you reach WAGER assuming you make your procedure turn back outbound I think Avare would continue to sequence to GIFME since Avare doesn't have the logic to know you are in a hold.

Regard the switch to another unselected plate, I've been using Avare for several years now and I have never had an "uncommanded" plate change.  I've selected the wrong plate, I've gone to the plate tab and hit the wrong airport etc but the plate has never automatically changed.  With one exception I have had Avare change to an airport diagram when I didn't want it to but there was a valid explanation for it.

Also in plate mode as you call it, your airplane unlike the charts is not going to be the center of the screen, the aircraft symbol is going to be placed on the screen relative to the displayed approach plate, the center button will center the plate not the plane on this screen, so no, your Galaxy Tab A is working fine.  You can switch the plate between track up and north up but personally I think plates (not necessarily charts) should be left north up otherwise they become unreadable.

Just tell me that you are not relying on your tablet to provide you GPS positioning to actually shoot an approach. :-)

Jeff

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[Peter Gustafson]

I also am also not aware of any automation that would switch the plates without user intervention.  That is true even with AP experimental stuff (which I'm glad to hear somebody is experimenting with... I'm not aware of anybody else who does so which explains why it hasn't gotten much work.)

I believe all that AP does is delete existing waypoints and load approach waypoints which are then displayed everywhere that waypoints would be displayed. (But doesn't change the plate display).

I've experience a tablet with a "touchy" screen... that is, picks up touches when there shouldn't be?  Possible?  Wish there was something more to go on here.

Pete

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[Barrett Thompson]

I've been able to replicate something similar to Edgar's problem. After selecting the AP mode, Avare replaces the existing plan with a new one consisting of approach waypoints. After activating this new plan, I go back to the Plate tab. The approach I had selected is gone, and Avare instead displays the first plate in the list for the airport nearest to me. The change seems to occur at the time the AP plan is activated. The AP can load the new waypoints into the plan, but the plate doesn't change if that new plan isn't activated. It seems to behave this way pretty consistently.

I would assume that when you open the Plate tab, Avare has some logic to select what airport/plate it displays. It seems like 1st priority is plates for an airport that is your active waypoint, and 2nd priority is the airport nearest your position. My thought is that when the "AP plan" is activated, Avare does not see any airport anywhere in that plan (since those consist of GPS waypoints, navaids, etc., but no actual airport). With no airport selected as an active waypoint, it reverts to showing plates for the nearest airport instead.

All conjecture on my part, but maybe could help lead you down some troubleshooting path?

Barrett

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[Edgar W]

Clarification:

1st approach Avare was in lockstep with Gmin 430w unit throughout the entire Appr; couldn't ask for a better display.

Avare:

            To load the Appr TapPlate;Airport O88; Appr Gps Rnav 25; Ap

            Appr is loaded on PlanPage; Wager is activated; TapPlate Gps25 appr Plate appears in PlateView.

 

2nd Appr:

 At Jirage after the missed appr Hold:

            430w: TapFltPln;Hilit Wager; D>

            Avare; Tap Plan; Wager; Plate

 Avare was again in lockstep with 430w from Jirage to crossing Wager, after crossing Wager Outbound (east bound) in the hold at Wager; both had primary navigation fix as Wager. Turning Inbound in the Hold to Wager; Avare changed the Current active Plate to Lodi. PlanPage flight plan was still RioVista; Dynamic Fields were still Wager; the only change appeared to be the Current active Plate was now Lodi; the current airplane symbol even displays prominently on the Lodi chart.

 

On both days the 1st Appr, Avare was in lock step with 430w; it's after the first Appr that Avare becomes unreliable. Maybe it is something as simple as Avare is coded to discourage miltiple practice apprs at the same airport.

 

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[Edgar W]

Work around:

For anyone that likes a portable battery backup Plate for supplimental info when flying a IfrApproach; Avare works well in Plate View for the first appr.

If, for what ever reason, it is necessary to fly the Appr a second time, Avare selected Plate is not too reliable.

A work around, after $500 of fuel, the practice did not seem to hurt,  Go to MapPage to exit PlatePage.

Then go to PlatePage and reload and Activate the Plate as mentioned above for the first approach.

Then Avare works very well just like the first Approach.

There may be simpler ways to get Avare dependable on the second Approach, if anyone has found a easier way than reloading the complete approach; please share.

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[Edgar W]

The work around no longer works

Avare has been changed

Now when you cross the Iaf, Avare advances to the 2nd appr fix; it makes no diffeerene which direction you cross the Iaf, Avare advances to the 2nd; this is the last thing you need during a hold.

The problem is you needed to complete the hold and go back to the Iaf.

Additionally, now even using the work around, uncommanded Avare changes the active ifr plate to the plate for the nearest airport.

Hopefully, Avare will be changed back so the work around works consistently.

[Kreig Babbert]

Please never ever rely upon free software when your life is at stake.  Other than a quick look at the plate for situational awareness, I never use Avare to navigate an approach and never load "AP mode".  The kind of software behavior you describe is why the FAA has stringent requirements for IFR use of GPS.  Please see AIM 1-1-17.2: "hand-held GPS systems are not authorized for IFR navigation, instrument approaches, or as a principal instrument flight reference."  I think the "AP mode" should be deleted from Avare exactly for this reason.  The life you save may be your own.