Styles not working properly?

[tr...@sevi.us]

I seem to have an issue with styles.  Possibly since the last update. 

I am trying to copy and paste text from say a PDF.  That goes well.  But when I try to enforce a style on the new text the indenting, etc. works but the font information isn't transferred.

Also, in trying to create new text and put a style I have called SMALL HEADING, the font info doesn't transfer to that either.  I have had to manually change the font for it to work  and even then I can't seem to get the style to be right.  I ended up copying and pasting a different heading into the spot and then change the text.

Any thoughts?

Jutoh 3
Version 3.10.2 Intel 64-bit
Built Aug 18 2021 

Thanks!

Mark

[Stuart Warren]

Hit the eraser button with the pasted text selected and see if that changes the pasted text to the correct style features?

Sometimes, when you paste or import a doc it will paste the character formatting with the text. The eraser button removes the character formatting and will let you use a paragraph style on the text...

Stu

[Julian Smart]

Hi Mark,

It may be that the pasted or typed text is formatted with a font as
character formatting, i.e. per-span of text rather than per-paragraph.
Applying a paragraph style will apparently not change the font, because
the character formatting overrides the paragraph formatting. You can
clear the character formatting with Format | Clear Direct Formatting if
it's directly formatted (contains "+") or with Format | Text | Default
Style (if it's a named style). Then the paragraph formatting won't be
overridden by any character formatting.

Regards,

Julian

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[tr...@sevi.us]

Thank you!

Mark

[tr...@sevi.us]

Thank you!

I think it acted differently in the past.  I don't recall having these issues when I was copying and pasting a lot because I pulling excerpts from scripts (PDFs) into Jutoh while writing the book.

Best,
Mark

[tr...@sevi.us]

Follow up:

Even clearing the formatting I had to change the font manually.  The style changed the indentation but not the font.

Mark

On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 6:31:10 AM UTC-7 Julian Smart wrote:

[Kim N Jensen]

To clean the source completely, you could copy the text from the pdf to a pure-text-editor and then from the editor to Jutoh (depending on your workflow, that might give you other problems. But worth a try). Also, Jutoh has the commands Paste unformatted text and Paste Special in the Edit-menu, which might do the trick.

Regards,

Kim

[tr...@sevi.us]

Yes, I've done that before with other text by dumping the text into Notepad ++ or Thunderbird as a message.  I'd not thought about that so thanks for reminding me.  However, as I've stated, I believe this is new behavior and I'm sure I didn't have to do any of that before.

Mark

[tr...@sevi.us]

Julian,

One of the most useful features of WordPerfect (which I still use) is Reveal Codes.  It allows you to see what formatting codes are affecting your text.  Dealing with HTML for years, I also do this when I can't figure out why something is not laying out properly in a web page.  And of course, there's a way to see CSS codes in any browser.

Given how complex Jutoh is, any thoughts to doing something similar?  Or maybe there already is and I just don't know about it.  I'm talking about doing it like WordPerfect where you can split the screen and see the underlying formatting codes.  It's really helpful.

Just a thought.

Best,
Mark

[Julian Smart]

Hi Mark,

It's something to think about, though it probably couldn't be shown
within the actual editor. But a synchronised pane of detailed
information could be possible, which I've considered in the past.

Meanwhile, there are various ways of visualising or finding formatting:

1. You can look at the bottom of the Styles palette and see some
information about what paragraph and character formatting is under the
cursor.
2. In Preferences/Highlighting, you can check "Direct Character
Formatting" to show direct character formatting in pink (or custom colour).
3. In the Inspector, Formatting mode, you can find instances of direct
formatting or other formatting.
4. After generating Epub, you can see the HTML and CSS with Book |
Examine (F6).
5. You could show the book or chapter in a browser and examine the HTML
and CSS to see what is being generated, from which you can infer the
Jutoh content.
6. If you want to have Jutoh tell you if certain formatting is present,
you can do so with the custom checking facility (in Jutoh Plus) whereby
you set up 'find' presets for Jutoh to check against the content either
after a compile or via the Inspector.

Regards,

Julian

> *Paste unformatted text* and *Paste Special* in the Edit-menu,

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[tr...@sevi.us]

Julian,

If I haven't said this before let me express it now.  Having the genius behind Jutoh answer tech support issues, in the short amount of time you do is unprecedented and just boggles my mind.  You'd say gobsmacked.  Actually, I'll say it; I'm gobsmacked.  It's just...inexpressible what a value that is.

Thank you for the quick and cogent response(s).

Best,

Mark

P.S.  This video shows WordPerfect's Reveal Codes.  I dock the window on the bottom (default) but you can see it can go other places like left or right.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUZSamyLBXo&ab_channel=WordPerfectOffice

[Julian Smart]

Hi Mark,

That's very kind and I'll try not to let it go to my head :-)

Interesting video. If you use Jutoh objects/tags such as comment,
condition, ref, speech markup etc. then you get a quite similar effect
in the Jutoh editor, and you can customize whether detail is shown in
the object name as per WordPerfect. Mostly formatting is hidden, but
occasionally start/end tags are needed to represent spans that couldn't
otherwise be represented in Jutoh.

I'll give it some thought; sometimes it would definitely be good to have
more insight into the formatting. I had previously considered a tree
representation; the WordPerfect method is perhaps more compact visually,
but arguably not as good at showing the content hierarchy (e.g. box ->
table -> cell -> paragraph -> text).

Regards,

Julian

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[tr...@sevi.us]

My only hesitation in your scheme ( the content hierarchy box -> table -> cell -> paragraph -> text ) is that it might be too technical.  The goal would be to give insight into where the formatting starts and stops and how the text is affected by what formatting. What you're mentioning is familiar to me since when I do web design I use the Inspector that most browsers support these days to show that type of box model.  

I should also mention that WordPerfect has (always has) allowed you to delete or modify the codes directly.) Here's a screenshot that shows you can click on and modify the styles directly from the inspector pane.  In this case it's what they call the OPEN STYLE: DocumentStyle that each document opens with.  You can see it's really just font info for my stuff but other style call outs are available.  All codes respond to this double click editing.

Not sure you need something as complex as what you're suggesting or even WordPerfect's scheme - although I would certainly welcome it.

And, Julian, let it go to your damned head.  For a PhD you're a bit slow at times.  :-) 

You're amazing.  Embrace the slavish praise from us common people.  :-)

Mark