The Human Comdition
Steven N Colling
carnal nature and transformed into the likeness of Christ.
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will be no more, and
that which is not will be.
"Steven N Colling" <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:P0spPSC...@tweedledum.annex.com...
> Save for the renewing of our minds and our transformation into the
likeness
> of Christ, We are carnal and petty, which is the human condition.
>
> --
> In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will be no more,
and
> that which is not will be.
>
>
Steven N Colling
fish
fish
kitty <cats...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FIaAsGJ...@tweedledum.annex.com...
no, not as i will. you asked a question and i gave you a very honest
answer. you've just stopped this discussion in its track. if you don't
like what i say, that's fine. but you needn't be dismissive when someone
opens their heart.
"Steven N Colling" <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:ScsqFEJ...@tweedledum.annex.com...
as you will.
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will be no more,
and that which is not will be.
"kitty" <cats...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:h03yXCJ...@tweedledum.annex.com...
most folks don't need to know the reason they need the hope. most have
really better ideas about their condition than we do. After all, they live
their lives every single day -- we don't live them for them.
One thing that really struck me about the 12-Step people was that even
when i went in feeling like the lowest scum of the earth, i saw people who
absolutely radiated serenity and hope. I heard stories of where they'd been
and how they found a reason to hope and a way to make that hope reality.
They didn't confirm my opinion of my hopelessness -- they helped me,
encouraged me, showed me it wasn't something i needed to have my face rubbed
in. They showed me what can happen when someone shows a hopeless person
even the smallest ray of hope.
Show the hope -- show the light. Let others make their own decision as
to whether that light and hope are what they need. Most will respond
positively and without pointing out the clods of mud sticking to them.
"Steven N Colling" <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:LT7iF3I...@tweedledum.annex.com...
So, we need to show the hope, and the reason we need the hope, is that
it?
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will be no
more, and that which is not will be.
"kitty" <cats...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:K8JcM0I...@tweedledum.annex.com...
exactly. thank you.
without hope, all that's left is despair and hatred. It's bad
enough to remind others of the mud without throwing it at them as well.
show someone a better thing and they will respond. And since, as
Christians, we have hope why should we continue to remind others of the mud
while we ourselves pat ourselves on the back that we have hope and light?
All of us have some hope of the light -- but each of us doesn't have a
corner on the market. "Let your light so shine before men that they may see
your good works and glorify your Father who is in heaven." Hard to let
that light shine when all one sees is mud.
"Steven N Colling" <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:YG0nawI...@tweedledum.annex.com...
yes I guess that is true, If we are always telling someone that
they are wrong, then I guess they might just not see when they are right,
and that there is Light ahead.
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will be no
more, and that which is not will be.
"kitty" <cats...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:GfDUMrI...@tweedledum.annex.com...
There's a difference between denying the mud and having one's
face ground into it, Steven. But one can't raise people's sights to the
light if one keeps reminding them of the mud underfoot. One needs a reason
to hope -- continually reminding them of the mud focuses their attention on
the mud and thus they miss the light above.
"Steven N Colling" <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:NHVVnbI...@tweedledum.annex.com...
True, but to deny the mud is just as bad as not seeing the
light, both are forms of blindness.
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will be
no more, and that which is not will be.
"kitty" <cats...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Lu3ceaI...@tweedledum.annex.com...
It's good to hear more about the bright and shining hope
than the petty and carnal. Most folks do well enough with petty and carnal
without any further encouragement. perhaps if our eyes were more on the
prize and less on the mud, this world as well as this ng might be a better,
happier place for everyone.
"Steven N Colling" <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in
message news:5$ViBXIA...@tweedledum.annex.com...
And if you read my second post, you will see that there is
a bright and shining hope, which is Christ Jesus.
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is
will be no more, and that which is not will be.
"John S. McEnery" <bigjohn...@email.msn.com> wrote
in message news:Hjqlm9E...@tweedledum.annex.com...
Speak for yourself
Steven N Colling <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in
message news:P0spPSC...@tweedledum.annex.com...
fish
else is working your first step for you, there is always CoDa or AlAnon, eh?
fish
Steven N Colling <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:4SodAKJ...@tweedledum.annex.com...
The first step, even in the (n) step methodology, in solving a problem is to
recognize that there is a problem. Once you have discovered you have a
problem you look for a solution.
Steven N Colling
way to destruction?
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will be no more, and
that which is not will be.
"fish" <fish...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d8#sc9JAA...@tweedledum.annex.com...
fish
them, get the heck out of the way of their natural consequences, and be
there with love and hope after a particularly bad night. The coda ng on
annex could tell you all about it, if you are interested.
fish
Steven N Colling <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:#YG87$JAAH...@tweedledum.annex.com...
Steven N Colling
way to destruction. and although kitty brought the 12 step methodology into
the discussion, the original discussion was not about the 12 step
methodology.
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will be no more, and
that which is not will be.
"fish" <fish...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:S25gJKK...@tweedledum.annex.com...
fish
whole books and methods dealing with how to help someone. I am limited here
by staying on topic. The short answer is to let the natural consequences
do their best work and be there with love and hope and help when the cards
come crashing in. The basic premise is that the path of self destruction
announces itself and is never ever really fun. The truth will out if you
give it room.
A guy I know and care about spent his first night in jail last week. His
wife was advised to not bail him out, to let him cool his heels and think
about what was going on in his life. She loves him very much.
fish
Steven N Colling <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:RX25dIK...@tweedledum.annex.com...
I was asking fish for a point of clarification concerning the discussion
that she and I were having.
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will be no more, and
that which is not will be.
"John S. McEnery" <bigjohn...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:fuIW6EK...@tweedledum.annex.com...
Steve...if this is a call for help, there are many very different people
here, ready, willing and able to lend a hand...
if not I don't understand your point.
John
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Steven N Colling <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:#YG87$JAAH...@tweedledum.annex.com...
fish
with denial and intervention. It's easy to foul up the whole thing up.
fish
John S. McEnery <bigjohn...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:DmOr6KK...@tweedledum.annex.com...
In other words "Be...dont tell"?
John
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
fish <fish...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:S25gJKK...@tweedledum.annex.com...
Karyn...@msn.com
--
Karyn
"fish" <fish...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d8#sc9JAA...@tweedledum.annex.com...
Steven N Colling
lost and saved.
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will be no more, and
that which is not will be.
"fish" <fish...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:VMDZ9MK...@tweedledum.annex.com...
Karyn...@msn.com
--
Karyn
"Steven N Colling" <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:4P5ZGPK...@tweedledum.annex.com...
Steven N Colling
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will be no more, and
that which is not will be.
<Karyn...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:OsvRYYK...@tweedledum.annex.com...
Marylyn
Marylyn
"Steven N Colling" <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:R629qYC...@tweedledum.annex.com...
Steven N Colling
by bit I see and hear more clearly.
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will be no more, and
that which is not will be.
"Marylyn" <mmo...@cncnet.com> wrote in message
news:HOKE2XL...@tweedledum.annex.com...
Marylyn
conversation in response to the idea that we need to expound the mud so
others will know how dirty they are? I think it was a very good addition,
btw.
<Karyn...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:OsvRYYK...@tweedledum.annex.com...
Steven N Colling
are. Theirs is the sin of commission, mine is the sin of omission. I am not
allowed to have a wait and see, laze faire, attitude.
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will be no more, and
that which is not will be.
"Marylyn" <mmo...@cncnet.com> wrote in message
news:giJDwhL...@tweedledum.annex.com...
> And didn't Kitty interject her own experience with 12 steppers into the
> conversation in response to the idea that we need to expound the mud so
> others will know how dirty they are? I think it was a very good addition,
> btw.
>
> <Karyn...@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:OsvRYYK...@tweedledum.annex.com...
fish
fish
Steven N Colling <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:3CF#fpLAA...@tweedledum.annex.com...
Too many times do the people of God say,"well, it is the missionaries job,
or the pastors job, or the Holy Spirits Job." Bull, it is our privilege, by
the great commission, to evangelize the world and all peoples there. Too
often the cry, "not my job", is heard coursing through the Church
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will be no more, and
that which is not will be.
"Marylyn" <mmo...@cncnet.com> wrote in message
news:MtQ56dL...@tweedledum.annex.com...
Salvation is a work of the Spirit, from start to finish. God doesn't need
us to reach the world, it is our privilege that we get to be his vessels,
and I mean that quite literally -- we are vessels for the Living God to flow
through, and not "little gods".
I personally turned to Jesus because I was hungry for an intimate
relationship with the one who'd been calling to me all my life. I suspect
others turn to him for the very same reason.
"Steven N Colling" <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:m6pyNHJ...@tweedledum.annex.com...
Without knowing the reason for their need for a hope, a Savior, then why
would they turn to him?
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will be no more,
and that which is not will be.
"kitty" <cats...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:h03yXCJ...@tweedledum.annex.com...
most folks don't need to know the reason they need the hope. most
have really better ideas about their condition than we do. After all, they
live their lives every single day -- we don't live them for them.
One thing that really struck me about the 12-Step people was that even
when i went in feeling like the lowest scum of the earth, i saw people who
absolutely radiated serenity and hope. I heard stories of where they'd been
and how they found a reason to hope and a way to make that hope reality.
They didn't confirm my opinion of my hopelessness -- they helped me,
encouraged me, showed me it wasn't something i needed to have my face rubbed
in. They showed me what can happen when someone shows a hopeless person
even the smallest ray of hope.
Show the hope -- show the light. Let others make their own decision
as to whether that light and hope are what they need. Most will respond
positively and without pointing out the clods of mud sticking to them.
"Steven N Colling" <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:LT7iF3I...@tweedledum.annex.com...
So, we need to show the hope, and the reason we need the hope, is
that it?
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will be no
more, and that which is not will be.
"kitty" <cats...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:K8JcM0I...@tweedledum.annex.com...
exactly. thank you.
without hope, all that's left is despair and hatred. It's bad
enough to remind others of the mud without throwing it at them as well.
show someone a better thing and they will respond. And since, as
Christians, we have hope why should we continue to remind others of the mud
while we ourselves pat ourselves on the back that we have hope and light?
All of us have some hope of the light -- but each of us doesn't have a
corner on the market. "Let your light so shine before men that they may see
your good works and glorify your Father who is in heaven." Hard to let
that light shine when all one sees is mud.
"Steven N Colling" <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:YG0nawI...@tweedledum.annex.com...
yes I guess that is true, If we are always telling someone that
they are wrong, then I guess they might just not see when they are right,
and that there is Light ahead.
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will be
no more, and that which is not will be.
"kitty" <cats...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:GfDUMrI...@tweedledum.annex.com...
There's a difference between denying the mud and having one's
face ground into it, Steven. But one can't raise people's sights to the
light if one keeps reminding them of the mud underfoot. One needs a reason
to hope -- continually reminding them of the mud focuses their attention on
the mud and thus they miss the light above.
"Steven N Colling" <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in
message news:NHVVnbI...@tweedledum.annex.com...
True, but to deny the mud is just as bad as not seeing the
light, both are forms of blindness.
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will
be no more, and that which is not will be.
"kitty" <cats...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Lu3ceaI...@tweedledum.annex.com...
It's good to hear more about the bright and shining hope
than the petty and carnal. Most folks do well enough with petty and carnal
without any further encouragement. perhaps if our eyes were more on the
prize and less on the mud, this world as well as this ng might be a better,
happier place for everyone.
"Steven N Colling" <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in
message news:5$ViBXIA...@tweedledum.annex.com...
And if you read my second post, you will see that there
is a bright and shining hope, which is Christ Jesus.
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is
will be no more, and that which is not will be.
"John S. McEnery" <bigjohn...@email.msn.com> wrote
in message news:Hjqlm9E...@tweedledum.annex.com...
Speak for yourself
Steven N Colling <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in
message news:P0spPSC...@tweedledum.annex.com...
Save for the renewing of our minds and our
transformation into the likeness
of Christ, We are carnal and petty, which is the
human condition.
--
fish
the best opening to help. It means while we may touch base on this topic, I
am not willing for this to become a big lesson on 12 steps.
fish
Steven N Colling <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:0OGo#LKAAH...@tweedledum.annex.com...
fish
fish
<Karyn...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:dSgX0XK...@tweedledum.annex.com...
I don't think that is what is being said. More like don't apologize for
having taken the keys.
--
Karyn
"Steven N Colling" <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:m1pVoNK...@tweedledum.annex.com...
great, next time one of my friends drive drunk, I will be there for them
when the kill them selves or someone else.
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will be no more,
and that which is not will be.
"John S. McEnery" <bigjohn...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:DmOr6KK...@tweedledum.annex.com...
In other words "Be...dont tell"?
John
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
fish <fish...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:S25gJKK...@tweedledum.annex.com...
fish
souls that God loves best."
Fr. Joseph Martin
Steven N Colling <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:QK2a#YKAAH...@tweedledum.annex.com...
kitty
condition.... poverty, darkness, depression, anxiety, addiction.....
"fish" <fish...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1ohLVFO...@tweedledum.annex.com...
Steven N Colling
--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, that which is will be no more, and
that which is not will be.
"fish" <fish...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f2qAODO...@tweedledum.annex.com...
fish
heartily recommend them.
fish
Steven N Colling <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:W5r6WFO...@tweedledum.annex.com...
fish
fish
Steven N Colling <scol...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:4P5ZGPK...@tweedledum.annex.com...
fish
fish
kitty <cats...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:IrHBsGO...@tweedledum.annex.com...