Lower Deschutes River, OR

[Katie Gosses]

Hi Stream Team! Noticed the info on the Lower Deschutes River is missing about 50+ miles of the section, including the day 'splash and giggle' section. What is considered the 'Lower Deschutes' is 100 miles from Pelton Dam to the mouth where it meets the Columbia River. There are also 4 segments to it. Segment 1 goes from Warm Springs Boat Launch to Harpham Flats Boat Launch, approx. 44 miles. Segment 2, the so called 'splash and giggle' section, Goes from Nena Boat Launch to Sandy Beach Takeout, approx. 10 miles. Sandy Beach is a required takeout due to Sherars Falls a few miles downstream. Segment 3 and 4 are mentioned in your page, but 3 goes from Buckhollow Boat Launch to Macks Canyon Recreation Site, approx. 19 miles. Segment 4 goes from Mack's Canyon to the mouth, approx. 24 miles. If you could please update this? 

[Thomas O'Keefe]

It’s all there

https://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/view/river-detail/1507/main

https://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/view/river-detail/3084/main

[Kgoose]

Oh so it is! But labeled in a very odd way. All of that distance is the 'Lower Deschutes' and I spent a ton of time trying to find the upper portion on AW and it wasn't coming up for me. Maybe it should have 4 different listing, for each of the 4 segments?

[Kgoose]

Also, it does not show up if you search for it in the Mobile App. I just tried again.

[Anthon Allred]

In the Beta Box listings for Difficulty, why is "Class III(IV)" not an
option that can be chosen?  The closest I can get is "Class II-III(IV)".

Tony Allred Jr.

[Anthon Allred]

See Following Discussion:

Barbara Brown <poto...@gmail.com>
To:larry...@verizon.net
Cc:mozar...@gmail.com,Gary steinberg,John Snitzer,Tony Allred,Alf
Cooley,Bruce,David Cottingham,Gary Quam,Ginny Quam,Gus Anderson,Jenny
Thomas,Kim Buttleman,lisa...@comcast.net,Mark Brenneman,Mike
Keefe,Rolando Arrieta,Sheila Chapelle,hmsl...@msn.com,Wayne Mcdaniel
Sat, Sep 23 at 3:25 PM
Agreed! Barb

On Sep 23, 2023, at 12:40 PM, Larry Lempert <larry...@verizon.net> wrote:

Thanks, Tony--well worth taking action.

Both "Class 2-3 (4)" and "Class 3+ (4)" are misleading. Seems the best
idea is, as soon as possible, to press AW to add "Class 3 (4)" as an
option, citing the fatality as the indicator of how necessary the change
is. In the meantime, better to have the error fall on the side of safety
and use "Class 3+ (4)." (Yes, you will probably get objections, but so
it goes.)

-----

On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 12:31:50 PM EDT, Tony Allred
<tony....@verizon.net> wrote:


All,

I have looked into the Little Falls ratings.  All of the ratings of the
particular rapids/features on Little Falls are ranked Class III, except
for the Virginia side of Little Falls, which is ranked Class III+.  The
overall ranking for the entire run (on both the main page and under
"difficulty" on the Little Falls page) is, as Rolando indicated, "Class
2-3 (4)."  I think this is an error.  I think it should be "Class 3
(4)".  However, "Class 3 (4)" is not an available choice for a
difficulty ranking.  Unless the "Class 3 (4)" can be added to the list
of possible rankings by AW programmers, the current  choice is either
"Class 2-3 (4)" or "Class 3+ (4)."

Should it be "Class 3+ (4) -- will there be heartburn if I change it?

Tony Allred Jr.

[Kgoose]

Following up on this again, the information for the Lower Deschutes is all there, but not labeled correctly. It is simply labeled 'Deschutes' Whereas the Lower Deschutes is only denoted as from Mack's Canyon to the Columbia. I am the river ranger in charge of it, and I can tell you the Lower Deschutes is from Warm Springs all the way to the mouth at the Columbia. It would be way less confusing to divide it into its 4 segments. Lower Deschutes segment 1: warm springs to Nena boat ramp, Segment 2: Nena boat ramp to Sandy Beach, Segment 3: Buckhollow to Mack's Canyon, Segment 4: Mack's to Columbia. Thanks guys!

[Pete Giordano]

I removed the "Lower Deschutes" alternate name. I think having all sections named consistently makes more sense rather than an arbitrary lower or upper designation.

Hope that works for others.

[Kgoose]

Well, that's not what it's called though, and there's already like 6 'Deschutes' sections on your database. Most of the runnable parts of the river are down around Bend, OR, the Lower Deschutes is way up near Madras and Maupin which are like 2 hrs away. The BLM rec page calls it the Lower Deschutes, all the outfitters call it the Lower Deschutes, the boater guide calls it the Lower Deschutes. And the required boater passes are bought by segment, so it makes more sense to call it the Lower Deschutes, and divide it into the sections because each is different, some are overnight sections, some are dayfloats. See: https://www.blm.gov/programs/recreation/permits-and-passes/lotteries-and-permit-systems/oregon-washington/lower-deschutes

[Pete Giordano]

I see what you mean. In general AW has gone with the main river name for the title and created reaches for trips that are commonly run as a complete trip and not combined with other "sections" of that same river. So when looking at the Deschutes, the river around Bend has multiple sections that are generally not combine into a single trip for a variety of reasons. The main sections, Lava, Big Eddy, Meadowcamp, and Riverhouse are generally done as individual trips although sometimes a couple are combined. The Deschutes below Warm Springs is typically run as a trip with a variety of putins and ends above Shearer's. Folks running above Shearer's generally don't continue down around the falls. The problem, as I see it, of listing something as the "Upper" or "Lower" is that you can get into the confusing problem of what if someone starts running something above the Upper? Then that is the "Upper Upper" or the "Lower Lower". This was recently very confusing on the White Salmon when the dam came out. Granted, there aren't going to be newly discovered sections on the Deschutes but I think that to be consistent, main titles need to stay the same and be the river name. I could see putting an alternate title of Lower Deschutes for both the sections from Warm Springs to Shearer's and Shearer's down to the mouth. I also think the section divisions and numbers within each of those two reaches should match the official terminology.

I'm not trying to speak for AW here. Just what I've interpreted looking at other rivers like the N. Umpqua and Rogue.

[Thomas O'Keefe]

For river name we go my USGS place names: it is the "Deschutes River" and not the "Lower Deschutes River."

We have an Alt Name field which is for a local boater name for a segment so I put "Lower Deschutes" and the sections in there along with an indication of sections as defined by BLM.

Different guidebooks and resources split it up in different ways. We have generally used Soggy Sneakers as the default and it has two segments from US 26 to Sherars Falls and Sherars Falls to the Columbia. I know every time I have personally run the river that's how I have run it. The description provides clarity on the management segments with headers for each.

Tom

[Thomas O'Keefe]

For White Salmon we have that labeled "Lower Gorge" which I think is better than Lower Lower.

https://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/view/river-detail/4012/main