Re: alt.magick FAQs and REFs
nagasiva
>> how will you tell the adepts from the psychos?!
Evergreen <th...@addressis.invalid>:
> And the adepts from the bookworms pretending to be adepts.
indeed, it could be a problem. any suggestions for how you'd winnow them?
withdraw, disbelieve, and presume power is the ability to think things?
>>> Reading through the posts, I noticed many new people asking for
>>> advice from all of you on how to get started;
temporarily at
http://www.arcane-archive.org/faqs/alt-magick/nrfaq.html/#30
>>> what to read, which occult/author is the best,
ditto:
http://www.arcane-archive.org/faqs/alt-magick/nrfaq.html/#32
I'm still revising this location and will soon post on this new NRFAQ.
>>> which form of magick is the best etc.
I don't think we've got REFs or FAQs on this one. they're too
controversial, everybody voting for their cult.
>> covered by some FAQs, but it could be addressed here too.
>
> I've read the FAQ.
there's more than one. there's the official alt.magick FAQ:
alt.magick FAQ
http://www.asiya.org/altmagickfaq/
and there's the alt.magick Noise Reduction FAQ
http://www.arcane-archive.org/faqs/alt-magick/nrfaq.html
the newsgroup FAQ shifts with the current most numerous posters.
you might benefit from a glance at REFs, or at the Noise-Reduction FAQ.
> It looks like something a bunch of third graders pasted together
> after googling "magick".
LOL! hey, make one yourself. I'll help you. :)
critique the FAQ you read and we can discuss it as fodder, as it has
been instructed to all readers since the dawn of reference in the
newsgroup. simple slamming on work people do is not helpful.
>>> Magick to some, especially the very young can be very appealing.
this is nonsensical and truly only pertains to tthose who are not
yet aware of what magic is. Clarkean magic doesn't even "appeal" to
those who witness it, they're simply baffled by advanced technos.
>>> They should know that to be an adept takes time, hard work and
>>> discipline.
premise: becoming an 'adept' is possible
premise: effort and discipline are required to become an 'adept'
implied premises:
'adepts' exist;
'adepts' might be identified
processes of becoming an 'adept' can be known
the term 'adept' best refers to someone arriving at an ideal or
mature (advanced) state, especially with regard to spirituality
or the mastery of magic.
> It takes that to become adept at anything.
different term usage. aptitude may severely tip the scales here.
>> NEWBIES: see the following file:
>> http://www.luckymojo.com/namfaq.html
thanks for the mention.
> There are no dangers in Magick outside of falling prey to people who
> say, or even believe, that they know a lot about Magick, but don't.
this says nothing about what "Magick" is or what the term means.
in general the Crowleyan form of magic, a mystical discipline set
termed 'Magick' in order to compete with other writers, is described
as havin dangers. these dangers are pitfalls in spiritual development,
which is often misunderstood by occultists as a type of mutant-making
(becoming a superhero mutant on the order of a comic book hero).
> Usually, they've just read a lot of stuff. Anyone can pretend to
> be anything on the internet. It is just words.
words can be used to deceive. that they can be doesn't support the
contention in any particular case that this is what is happening.
> If someone claims to be an adept, make them prove it.
excellent advice if one seeks to challenge such claims. part of the
problem with the advice is that it doesn't explain what an adept is,
doesn't provide standards of evidence by which 'proof' might be
ascertained, and so will only serve to foment more arguments behind
which little if nothing is ever demonstrated.
> If they try to wow you with arcane vocabularies and endless quotes
> from supposed Masters, walk away.
nothing like ignoring potentially insightful text presented as part
of a conversation. differentiating between writers and mages appears
to be a difficulty of the modern occult community.
> There are hundreds of books and websites out there that
> claim to offer authentic information about Magick.
what demonstrates authenticity? what is that quality?
> All of them have followers and all of them contradict each other
> to one degree or another.
coming from differing perspectives. is one of these right? are all
of them demonstrated wrong by their diversity?
> Magick isn't hard. It's another way of looking at existence.
perspective, view, reception of data. that isn't Magick by the
description of Crowley or by any standard which I respect. the
ability to change one's mind is not a magical skill.
> You don't need anything but your own native abilities and an open
> mind. Listen to your own knowing.
the expert on what "you" need? symptoms of corruption.
> Abrahcahdahbrah: "With the Word I Create."
overestimation if ever I heard one.
nagasiva
--
yronwode.com@nagasiva; http://www.satanservice.org/
emailed replies may be posted; cc replies if response desired;
consider the "Question": Needleman -- The Heart of Philosophy
tyaginator
more complete feedback in the aftermath of a massive
reorganization of newsgroup FAQs and REFs. sorry it took
so long to come to speed, but them's the breaks when
you're a volunteer waiting for incentive. :)
nagasiva about alt.magick and discernment of contributors:
>>> how will you tell the adepts from the psychos?!
>>>> Reading through the posts, I noticed many new people asking for
>>>> advice from all of you on how to get started;
tyaginator <yronwode.com@nagasiva> :
the Noise-Reduction FAQ is now at a firm location of:
http://www.arcane-archive.org/faqs/amnrfaq.php#30
note the alt.magick FAQs (gigante, newsgroup, nagasiva's)
all have replies to this question also. mentioned below.
the Noise-Reduction FAQ still needs revision in the wake
of (ongoing) crafting of the alt.magick FAQ, whose content
it slightly duplicates. eventually all areas of duplication
will be eliminated and shifted over to the alt.magick FAQ.
>>>> what to read, which occult/author is the best,
http://www.arcane-archive.org/faqs/amnrfaq.php#32
note the alt.magick FAQs (gigante, newsgroup, nagasiva's)
all have replies to this question also. mentioned below.
> I'm still revising this location and will soon post on this new NRFAQ.
> alt.magick FAQ
> http://www.asiya.org/altmagickfaq/
you'll find that I've now set a Permanent Redirect on the
old URL for the alt.magick Noise-Reduction FAQ. hooray!
> and there's the...
alt.magick Noise-Reduction FAQ
http://www.arcane-archive.org/faqs/amnrfaq.php
plus there's
El FAQ-O Gigante
http://www.arcane-archive.org/faqs/el-faq-o-gigante.php
This document is a compilation file of all known alt.magick FAQ
files and several REF files compiled and edited by catherine.
> the newsgroup FAQ shifts with the current most numerous posters.
> you might benefit from a glance at REFs, or at the Noise-Reduction FAQ.
alt.magick REFs
http://www.arcane-archive.org/faqs/ref.php
and the entire Arcane Archive FAQs directory can be examined through:
Arcane-Archive.org FAQs
http://www.arcane-archive.org/faqs/
> > It looks like something a bunch of third graders pasted together
> > after googling "magick".
tear it apart rationally. assault it with logic,
leaving the acid behind for the trolls and newbies.
> simple slamming on work people do is not helpful.
it is the usual activity of the newsgroup hazards to slam and duck.
>>>> They should know that to be an adept takes time, hard work and
>>>> discipline.
> premise: becoming an 'adept' is possible
there are methods described for doing it.
> premise: effort and discipline are required to become an 'adept'
to be adept at anything does require these things.
> implied premises:
> 'adepts' exist;
methods exist to identify them in magical styles and mysticism.
> 'adepts' might be identified
character traits are identifiable for most expertise categories.
> processes of becoming an 'adept' can be known
many seem to believe this and have constructed systems.
> the term 'adept' best refers to someone arriving at an ideal or
> mature (advanced) state, especially with regard to spirituality
> or the mastery of magic.
typically the ladder-system used in this forum is Rosicrucian or
post-Rosicrucian. quasi-masonic offices as described by people
like Crowley or Case or others.
> > It takes that to become adept at anything.
>
> different term usage. aptitude may severely tip the scales here.
>>> NEWBIES: see the following file:
>>> http://www.luckymojo.com/namfaq.html
> thanks for the mention.
this has changed also, to:
alt.magick FAQ by nagasiva
http://www.arcane-archive.org/faqs/namfaq.php
> > There are no dangers in Magick outside of falling prey to people who
> > say, or even believe, that they know a lot about Magick, but don't.
> this says nothing about what "Magick" is or what the term means.
see the FAQs and REFs for ideas about these.
> in general the Crowleyan form of magic, a mystical discipline set
> termed 'Magick' in order to compete with other writers, is described
> as having dangers. these dangers are pitfalls in spiritual development,
> which is often misunderstood by occultists as a type of mutant-making
> (becoming a superhero mutant on the order of a comic book hero).
one of the examples of the Crowleyan Magick pitfalls is 'Becoming
a Black Brother When Attempting to Cross the Abyss'. the whole is
described as part of what is termed a 'Magical Adventure in the
Career of a Magus', and typically related to the slaying or the
destruction of the ego. some think this the emphasis for careful
moulding and preparation of potential cultists through keen
self-disablement masquerading as spiritual development. beware.
> > If they try to wow you with arcane vocabularies and endless quotes
> > from supposed Masters, walk away.
>
> nothing like ignoring potentially insightful text presented as part
> of a conversation. differentiating between writers and mages appears
> to be a difficulty of the modern occult community.
specialized lexicons are identifiable for every technique set.
> > There are hundreds of books and websites out there that
> > claim to offer authentic information about Magick.
> what demonstrates authenticity? what is that quality?
applicability demonstrates authenticity. it is the quality of
being lucid, rational, and deriving from a reliable source.
tyaginator
REF and FAQ maintainer for alt.magick
for more, see the alt.magick FAQ at
http://www.asiya.org/altmagickfaq/
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