Question on getting published...

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Getteur

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Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
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Someone recently posted an opinion here that agents aren't interested in
dealing with new, non-published writers. I've also heard that publishers will
not look at submissions from writers, but only deal with agents. To those of
you who *have* been published, may I have the benefit of your personal
experience?

Gary

Lori Dee Crews

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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I've also heard that publishers will
>not look at submissions from writers, but only deal with agents.

Depends on the publisher and the genre.


Lori Crews
http://members.aol.com/larycrews/advice/index.htm

All you need is love.

PButler111

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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>
> I've also heard that publishers will
>>not look at submissions from writers, but only deal with agents.
>
>Depends on the publisher and the genre.
>
>
>Lori Crews
>http://members.

Didn't he ask for the opinions of those who've actually been published, Lori?
I don't believe you are currently included among that number.

http://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com

NCH

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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get...@aol.com (Getteur) wrote:

>Gary

Gary, it does indeed depend on the house, the editor, and the genre.

Genre fiction (mystery, romance, adventure, SF, fantasy, etc.) is
traditionally easier to break into, as many editors at houses with
these sorts of genre imprints will entertain "unsolitcited"
(unagented) mss.

However, many won't. There just isn't time.

Agents, however, don't get paid until they sell your book. It's in
their best interest to look for new writers - especially writers they
feel will keep selling more books down the line. They don't want to
look at a new writer who is a "one-shot" deal -- it's not economically
as profitable in the end. I'm sorry if that sounds cruel, but it's the
hard truth in businesses other than publishing, too. :-)

Look for an agent who handles your genre who is looking for more
authors. Agents who are 1-2 years out of the gate are more likely to
still have room at the inn for you.

Good luck with it, Gary.

--Nancy


-----
addicted to words


Anncrispin

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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Dear Gary:

Please educate yourself about how to avoid the scam agents and publishers who
are, at this point, ubiquitous. Once you know what to look for, you're very
unlikely to get taken.

That way, you won't waste either your time or your money in contacting agents
that won't do you a particle of good, and can actually be harmful.

For the straight dope on this, go to the SFWA website:

http://www.sfwa.org

and click on "Writer Beware."

Good luck!

-Ann C. Crispin
Vice President, SFWA

Getteur

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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>For the straight dope on this, go to the SFWA website:
>
>http://www.sfwa.org
>
>and click on "Writer Beware."
>
>Good luck!
>
>-Ann C. Crispin
>Vice President, SFWA

What if it's not science fiction?

Gary

Anncrispin

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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Gary, that doesn't matter. Writer Beware is an equal opportunity site. The
stories listed on WB are about many different kinds of books, both fiction and
nonfiction.

You'll see.

-Ann C. Crispin

Keith Snyder

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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My opinion is that if you have a fantastic manuscript and go looking for
an agent, you'll find one.

Most publishers of which I'm aware will only deal with agents, unless
you happen to have some other "in." If you want to meet directly with
editors and publishers (and agents, for that matter), I'd suggest you
attend writers' conferences and make appointments with those people.

I sold my first three books without an agent. The first was sold to a
small press; the second and third were sold to Walker & Co. The fourth
is not yet sold. I do have an agent now.


Keith


Getteur wrote:
>
> Someone recently posted an opinion here that agents aren't interested in
> dealing with new, non-published writers. I've also heard that publishers will
> not look at submissions from writers, but only deal with agents. To those of
> you who *have* been published, may I have the benefit of your personal
> experience?
>
> Gary

--

http://www.woollymammoth.com/keith


Karen/Mags

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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PButler111 wrote:

> >
> > I've also heard that publishers will
> >>not look at submissions from writers, but only deal with agents.
> >

> >Depends on the publisher and the genre.
> >
> >
> >Lori Crews
> >http://members.
>
> Didn't he ask for the opinions of those who've actually been published, Lori?
> I don't believe you are currently included among that number.

Gee, I don't see you offering any constructive information......

>
>
> http://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com


Karen/Mags

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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Getteur wrote:

> Someone recently posted an opinion here that agents aren't interested in
> dealing with new, non-published writers. I've also heard that publishers will
> not look at submissions from writers, but only deal with agents. To those of
> you who *have* been published, may I have the benefit of your personal
> experience?

Many agents have little time to look at all the submissions they receive. If they
are unsolicited, they usually end up in the circular file unless you enclose
return postage. Publishing houses usually only deal with agents since they know
the ins and outs and have previewed any works submitted for consideration.Try an
agent who is currently looking for new authors. Many good ones are listed in
Herman's "Writer's Guide to Book Editors, Publishers and Literary Agents".
Lee Shore is currently looking to publish new writers. They are waiting for me to
send them my manuscript after I have completed the work they requested. Invited
writers get a special sticker to put on their manuscript box so they know it was
an invited submission.

Good lock!!

Karen

>
>
> Gary


Getteur

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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Thanks, Ann. I've already bookmarked the site.

Gary

Joyseymour

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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Keith wrote:

>Most publishers of which I'm aware will only deal with agents, unless
>you happen to have some other "in." If you want to meet directly with
>editors and publishers (and agents, for that matter), I'd suggest you
>attend writers' conferences and make appointments with those people.
>

This is something I've been tossing around in my mind for a while. I didn't go
this route to get my agent, I was lucky to get her, but what about people who
are not "people" people? I am a very shy, withdrawn kind of person, and would
find it impossible to talk to agents or editors at a conference. I know there
are some where you can make an appointment to meet one on one with interested
editors or agents, and that I would have been able to handle, but I am not a
networker. So what does someone like me who doesn't happen to have an agent
do? I worked hard to get where I am, (nowhere at the moment) but I would
never, ever have been able to go to something like Bouchercon and chat at a
party or in the bar or whatever. Does that mean I shouldn't be a writer? I
think part of the reason I am a writer is because of my personality (I used to
read books or write instead of going to dances when I was in high school.) So
how does someone like me overcome that kind of handicap? I'd love to hear
peoples' thoughts and comments on this.

>I do have an agent now.

That's new, isn't it? Your web page said you didn't.

joy

Bah, humbug.

Anncrispin

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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>Lee Shore is currently looking to publish new writers. They are waiting for
>me to
>send them my manuscript after I have completed the work they requested.
>Invited
>writers get a special sticker to put on their manuscript box so they know it
>was
>an invited submission.
>
>Good lock!!
>
>Karen

Dear Karen:

I'm very glad you're having a good experience with Lee Shore Literary Agency.
I wish you the best of luck with your book.

However, other writers in this newsgroup, please be advised, Lee Shore scores a
whopping 22 points on the Fisher scale for agents that engage in questionable
practices.

This agency strongly urges writers to pay upfront "evaluation fees" before they
will read work submitted. (They used to require this, but have changed in the
past couple of months.)

As Karen noted in her message, Lee Shore agency refers their writers to their
own internal editing service. The owner of Lee Shore Literary Agency, Cynthia
Sterling, also owns Sterling House Publishers, a vanity publishing company.
Many Lee Shore clients wind up signing contracts with vanity publishing outfits
such as Sterling House or Press-TIGE.

It is the view of SFWA that it is a conflict of interest for an agent to market
clients' books to their own vanity publishing house. Agents should not also be
publishers.

SFWA does not accept for Affiliate Membership agents that (1) charge upfront
fees to clients before a sale is made, and (2) agents that "sell" their
clients' works to subsidy publishers.

Best,

PButler111

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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>>Lee Shore is currently looking to publish new writers. They are waiting for
>>me to
>>send them my manuscript after I have completed the work they requested.
>>Invited
>>writers get a special sticker to put on their manuscript box so they know it
>>was
>>an invited submission.

Do you understand that this is a mass mailing type solicitation? "Invited
writers" for Lee Shore applies to 99.9% of the population.

http://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com

PButler111

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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>From: Karen/Mags kdd...@fuse.net
>Date: Fri, 03 December 1999 12:06 PM EST
>Message-id: <3847F8A0...@fuse.net>

>
>PButler111 wrote:
>
>> >
>> > I've also heard that publishers will
>> >>not look at submissions from writers, but only deal with agents.
>> >
>> >Depends on the publisher and the genre.
>> >
>> >
>> >Lori Crews
>> >http://members.
>>
>> Didn't he ask for the opinions of those who've actually been published,
>Lori?
>> I don't believe you are currently included among that number.
>
>Gee, I don't see you offering any constructive information......

Since I've addressed this subject on this newsgroup -- as well as in my
Writer's Club column -- many, many times, apparently you weren't paying
attention.

Publishers want good work, no matter where it comes from. The first publisher
I submitted a query to was Warner Books, which has an "agents only" policy. I
didn't have an agent. I sent my idea to them anyway and had a reply from the
Sr. Editor in less than two weeks saying, "Tell me more." They didn't care
that I didn't have an agent, despite their official policy. They thought I had
an idea that would make them money, and that's what counted. Just because
someone tells you something isn't done doesn't mean you shouldn't try it
anyway, short of throwing yourself on a live grenade.

New writers need to keep in mind, too, that "agent" is a rather loose term that
simply means someone acting on your behalf. Your Great Aunt Fanny can be your
agent if she owns a phone and some nice letterhead. I had no more credentials
than calling myself an agent when I acted as an agent to a bestselling author.
I still sold the book for him. No publisher ever questioned my credentials.
I was who I said I was. So be creative. Instead of wasting all your time
trying to find an agent, make that secondary to spending time trying to find a
publisher.

Any more comments, Karen?

http://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com

PButler111

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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My initial reaction regarding your statement about being too shy to talk to
people at a conference was, I must admit, "Get over it." Failing that,
nothing's to stop you writing letters/notes to these people. Most of them
would probably prefer that route in any case. I simply faxed the agent I
wanted, briefly outlined what I was doing and why it was a good idea, and gave
him 24 hours to accept or reject me. He had a contract to me the next day.
You don't have to be the life of the party -- just be honest and direct and
realistic. If writing is your forte, then letters to these folks should be a
snap.

>This is something I've been tossing around in my mind for a while. I didn't
>go
>this route to get my agent, I was lucky to get her, but what about people who
>are not "people" people? I am a very shy, withdrawn kind of person, and
>would
>find it impossible to talk to agents or editors at a conference. I know
>there
>are some where you can make an appointment to meet one on one with interested
>editors or agents, and that I would have been able to handle, but I am not a
>networker. So what does someone like me who doesn't happen to have an agent
>do? I worked hard to get where I am, (nowhere at the moment) but I would
>never, ever have been able to go to something like Bouchercon and chat at a
>party or in the bar or whatever. Does that mean I shouldn't be a writer? I
>think part of the reason I am a writer is because of my personality (I used
>to
>read books or write instead of going to dances when I was in high school.)
>So
>how does someone like me overcome that kind of handicap? I'd love to hear
>peoples' thoughts and comments on this.
>
>>I do have an agent now.
>
>That's new, isn't it? Your web page said you didn't.
>
>joy

http://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com

Joyseymour

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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Patricia wrote:

>My initial reaction regarding your statement about being too shy to talk to
>people at a conference was, I must admit, "Get over it." Failing that,
>nothing's to stop you writing letters/notes to these people. Most of them
>would probably prefer that route in any case. I simply faxed the agent I
>wanted, briefly outlined what I was doing and why it was a good idea, and
>gave
>him 24 hours to accept or reject me. He had a contract to me the next day.
>You don't have to be the life of the party -- just be honest and direct and
>realistic. If writing is your forte, then letters to these folks should be a
>snap.

Thanks for your thoughts, Patricia. Letters sound like a great idea, but they
don't always work. I have at least ten rejections from agents in response to
my queries. I'm sure my little genre novel is just not as hot a property as
some peoples' work.
"Get over it" might work for some people. Snap out of it. Don't be so
depressed. Why don't you just cheer up? Just stop drinking, put down the
bottle and walk away. Sorry, I'm wandering here, but perhaps you can see my
point?
Thanks again for your comments.

joy

Bah, humbug.

PButler111

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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>Thanks for your thoughts, Patricia. Letters sound like a great idea, but
>they
>don't always work. I have at least ten rejections from agents in response to
>my queries. I'm sure my little genre novel is just not as hot a property as
>some peoples' work.
>"Get over it" might work for some people. Snap out of it. Don't be so
>depressed. Why don't you just cheer up? Just stop drinking, put down the
>bottle and walk away. Sorry, I'm wandering here, but perhaps you can see my
>point?
>Thanks again for your comments.
>
>joy

Yes, I see your point and it's incredibly tired and manipulative. Don't lean
on it anymore, please.

As for letters not always working, do you think that talking to people at
conferences always works? Do you think that you'd get proportionally less
rejections from face to face encounters than you would from letters? I
seriously doubt it. As I said, be realistic.

http://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com

Keith Snyder

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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Hi, Joy,

> I am a very shy, withdrawn kind of person, and would
> find it impossible to talk to agents or editors at a conference. I know there
> are some where you can make an appointment to meet one on one with interested
> editors or agents, and that I would have been able to handle, but I am not a
> networker.

I'd say the appointments would be the main focus of an ambitious but shy
writer at a conference. There's no networking involved; you just show
up at your scheduled appointment time and discuss your book and your
hopes for your career with someone for fifteen minutes.

I've developed a public persona over my years as a musician and writer,
and it lets me survive mystery conventions and stuff like that, but I'm
still essentially an introvert. Large gatherings of people I don't know
are fun for a few minutes, and then they turn into work.

> I would
> never, ever have been able to go to something like Bouchercon and chat at a
> party or in the bar or whatever.

Bouchercon isn't a writers' conference -- it's a fan convention. It's
big and noisy, and the editors and publishers in attendance are not
there to find writers or to offer their wisdom. Writers' conferences
are much smaller and less overwhelming, and are actually about writing.
They usually consist of lectures and workshops, and will sometimes offer
short sessions with editors or agents, by advance appointment.

> >I do have an agent now.
> That's new, isn't it? Your web page said you didn't.

Yes, pretty new. Newer than my last web page revision. :)


Keith


DRMEOW21

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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In article <3847FA6A...@fuse.net>, Karen/Mags <kdd...@fuse.net> writes:

>Lee Shore is currently looking to publish new writers. They are waiting for
>me to
>send them my manuscript after I have completed the work they requested.

I have heard some really awful stuff about the Lee Shore Agency. Be careful.

Keith Snyder

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Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99
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PButler111 wrote:

> Yes, I see your point and it's incredibly tired and manipulative. Don't lean
> on it anymore, please.
>
> As for letters not always working, do you think that talking to people at
> conferences always works? Do you think that you'd get proportionally less
> rejections from face to face encounters than you would from letters? I
> seriously doubt it. As I said, be realistic.

As far as I can see, she has been realistic in identifying ways in which
she is less capable in "networking" situations than her more brazen
colleagues, and asking for opinions on how to compensate.


Keith

--

http://www.woollymammoth.com/keith

Getteur

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Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99
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>Yes, I see your point and it's incredibly tired and manipulative. Don't lean
>on it anymore, please.

Why are you always so nice to people, Patricia. Some people are just the way
they are. joy is asking for a way around her problem. What she doesn't need is
your coarse sarcasm.

Gary

PButler111

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Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99
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>Subject: Re: Question on getting published...
>From: get...@aol.com (Getteur)
>Date: Fri, 03 December 1999 08:59 PM EST
>Message-id: <19991203205904...@ng-cq1.aol.com>

Oh, fuck off. Jesus, it's dull when people decide to make themselves Christ
and lecture others about things that don't even involve them. My statement to
Joy -- did you get that? my statement TO JOY -- was neither coarse nor
sarcastic. It was quite plain and to the point and I meant every word of it.
If you are in the habit of blowing smoke up people's asses, that's your problem
-- and theirs -- not mine. The fact that you chose to concentrate on one
sentence out of a post full of helpful suggestions (which you claim Joy was
asking for) says much about you, nothing at all about me.

http://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com

PButler111

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Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99
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>> As for letters not always working, do you think that talking to people at
>> conferences always works? Do you think that you'd get proportionally less
>> rejections from face to face encounters than you would from letters? I
>> seriously doubt it. As I said, be realistic.
>
>As far as I can see, she has been realistic in identifying ways in which
>she is less capable in "networking" situations than her more brazen
>colleagues, and asking for opinions on how to compensate.
>
>
>Keith

I never said she wasn't being realistic in her views on her ability to network.
I'm not even sure how you could take that away from what I wrote. What I felt
she didn't seem to be viewing realistically was her chances of closing a deal
on a face-to-face basis versus a business letter query.

http://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com

RCHERIN

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Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99
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> I'm not even sure how you could take that away from what I wrote.
...pbutler<

Therein is the crux of why you aren't a writer. You haven't a clue to the
meaning of "ambiguity."

Keith Snyder

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Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99
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> What I felt
> she didn't seem to be viewing realistically was her chances of closing a deal
> on a face-to-face basis versus a business letter query.

Since she's already had poor response to her letters (which are more
accurately called query letters, not business letters), it was not only
realistic, but wise for Joy to consider other ways of approaching the
industry. My own experience is of better results from face-to-face
meeting than from correspondence. So yes, it is reasonable to suppose
that some approaches might work better than others for different people,
depending upon the innate strengths and weaknesses of each person.

It is unrealistic of you to claim that failure in a letter-based
strategy will necessarily correlate to failure in a meeting-based strategy.


Keith

--

http://www.woollymammoth.com/keith


Karen/Mags

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Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99
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PButler111 wrote:

I must have been absent that day. Usually when I see something you have written,
you were too busy belittling your fellow writers to offer anything constructive.
Why is that? Were you abandoned as a child or did you learn rudeness on your own?
If you want people to respect anything you say, you should consider the feelings of
others and get off your high horse. You are no better than anyone else, so don't
think I will bow down to kiss your ass just because you have been published. I'm
not impressed.

Karen

>
>
> http://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com


Karen/Mags

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Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99
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PButler111 wrote:

> >Subject: Re: Question on getting published...
> >From: get...@aol.com (Getteur)
> >Date: Fri, 03 December 1999 08:59 PM EST
> >Message-id: <19991203205904...@ng-cq1.aol.com>
> >
> >>Yes, I see your point and it's incredibly tired and manipulative. Don't
> >lean
> >>on it anymore, please.
> >
> >Why are you always so nice to people, Patricia. Some people are just the way
> >they are. joy is asking for a way around her problem. What she doesn't need
> >is
> >your coarse sarcasm.
> >
> >Gary

> Oh, fuck off.

This is what I'm saying! Rude of you, Patricia.Karen

Karen/Mags

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Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99
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Anncrispin wrote:

> >Lee Shore is currently looking to publish new writers. They are waiting for
> >me to
> >send them my manuscript after I have completed the work they requested.

> >Invited
> >writers get a special sticker to put on their manuscript box so they know it
> >was
> >an invited submission.
> >

> >Good luck!!


> >
> >Karen
>
> Dear Karen:
>
> I'm very glad you're having a good experience with Lee Shore Literary Agency.
> I wish you the best of luck with your book.
>
> However, other writers in this newsgroup, please be advised, Lee Shore scores a
> whopping 22 points on the Fisher scale for agents that engage in questionable
> practices.
>
> This agency strongly urges writers to pay upfront "evaluation fees" before they
> will read work submitted. (They used to require this, but have changed in the
> past couple of months.)

Don't worry. The minute they say send money, I say never mind. I question the
practices of any agent who says send money. Any contract offered will be shown to
one of my professors. He will advise me well in these matters. But I do not plan
to send someone money who should be sending me the money. Thanks for letting me
know. I'll keep my eyes open for just such an event.

Karen

PButler111

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Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99
to
Keith, are you being purposely obtuse? She stated that she's had ten
rejections from query letters (which, by the way, are, in fact, business
letters if done correctly). She also stated, however, that she hasn't tried
the face to face method because she's too shy to approach strangers. It's also
reasonable to believe that, were she to muster the courage to approach these
strangers, her approach would not exactly be as smooth and polished as a letter
she would have the luxury of editing. Therefore, my statement that her
"rejections" from face to face encounters could be expected to be proportionate
to her rejections from query letters is quite valid and sensible. There is no
basis to believe that a stammered, red-faced, eyes downcast face to crown of
head encounter would automatically be met with success where a well-crafted
query letter would not.

>It is unrealistic of you to claim that failure in a letter-based
>strategy will necessarily correlate to failure in a meeting-based strategy.

And when did I claim this? I've been in my body all week and I think I would
recall making such a claim. All I said was that one should not automatically
assume that the method of communication which one feels is beyond one's reach
is the magic approach that would automatically be more success than the other
methods one isn't too timid to try, simply because it does seem out of reach.

Is it possible that you honestly don't get this? Or are you another one who
simply lives to argue?


>Since she's already had poor response to her letters (which are more
>accurately called query letters, not business letters), it was not only
>realistic, but wise for Joy to consider other ways of approaching the
>industry. My own experience is of better results from face-to-face
>meeting than from correspondence. So yes, it is reasonable to suppose
>that some approaches might work better than others for different people,
>depending upon the innate strengths and weaknesses of each person.
>

>
>
>Keith

http://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com

Karen/Mags

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Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99
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PButler111 wrote:

> >>Lee Shore is currently looking to publish new writers. They are waiting for
> >>me to
> >>send them my manuscript after I have completed the work they requested.
> >>Invited
> >>writers get a special sticker to put on their manuscript box so they know it
> >>was
> >>an invited submission.
>

> Do you understand that this is a mass mailing type solicitation? "Invited
> writers" for Lee Shore applies to 99.9% of the population.

They didn't come looking for me. I sent to 6 agents at once. All but one have
replied. Lee Shore was the only affirmative reply. I'll see what they have to
say after they see my manuscript. They have only seen my short synopsis in query
letter. If they like the story, fine. If they don't, they are not the only
agents on earth.

Karen

>
>
> http://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com


Karen/Mags

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Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99
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DRMEOW21 wrote:

> In article <3847FA6A...@fuse.net>, Karen/Mags <kdd...@fuse.net> writes:
>

> >Lee Shore is currently looking to publish new writers. They are waiting for
> >me to
> >send them my manuscript after I have completed the work they requested.
>

> I have heard some really awful stuff about the Lee Shore Agency. Be careful.

Thanks! I will.


PButler111

unread,
Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99
to
>They didn't come looking for me. I sent to 6 agents at once. All but one
>have
>replied. Lee Shore was the only affirmative reply. I'll see what they have
>to
>say after they see my manuscript. They have only seen my short synopsis in
>query
>letter. If they like the story, fine. If they don't, they are not the only
>agents on earth.
>
>Karen

Well, you've been warned, several times.

http://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com

Keith Snyder

unread,
Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99
to

PButler111 wrote:
>
> Keith, are you being purposely obtuse?

No. I'm being contradictory because I believe your advice to be
unhelpful and self-aggrandizing. I think it's a good idea to
occasionally publicly contradict self-appointed experts who give bad
advice, which is the category to which I believe you belong.

It's not something I make a habit of, but once in a while, there is
congruence between opportunity and mood. You may flame me in response,
but I will be finished with this thread once I post this message.

> Is it possible that you honestly don't get this? Or are you another one who
> simply lives to argue?

There's a third possibility: You're unintentionally saying things you
don't mean, and I'm correcting them for public consumption. A fourth
possibility is that you are actually aware that you don't make a lot of
sense, and that you enjoy the resulting flames. A fifth is that you are
so enamored of your own voice that you speak when you are ignorant. A
sixth is that you are unaware of the meanings of the very words you use,
and thus sincerely do not comprehend anyone's objections to them. A
seventh is that you are emotionally unstable, possibly compulsive, and
abhor productive conversation. I vote for #3, since it assumes the best
of you.

It seems clear to me that you are not expert in the matter under
discussion. Since I have published three crime novels, and you have
published one biography of a celebrity, I think I have something to
offer a discussion of crime novel publication that you do not. Part of
what I have to offer is contradiction of advice I think is useless. I
believe yours is. After reading your posts for a couple of months, I
have concluded both that you are not qualified to give a significant
portion of the advice you give, and that helping others in their writing
careers is not your primary motivation in offering career advice.

If you would like to take issue with any of the specifics of my
suggestions to Joy, I will be happy to discuss it. I do not, however,
share your glee at the prospect of ad hominem argument, so I will
decline to participate in the acidfest.


Keith

--

http://www.woollymammoth.com/keith


PButler111

unread,
Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99
to
>If you would like to take issue with any of the specifics of my
>suggestions to Joy, I will be happy to discuss it. I do not, however,
>share your glee at the prospect of ad hominem argument, so I will
>decline to participate in the acidfest.
>
>
>Keith

What a load of horseshit. You never offered any advice. All you did was try
to pick a fight over essentially nothing. My comments to Joy were quite sound,
and I'm more than qualified to offer advice and opinions on this subject.
Since I've never seen you do anything here other than pat yourself on the back
and pick fights, you're hardly in a position to cast aspersions on the comments
of others. In short: fuck off.

http://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com

Alan Hope

unread,
Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99
to

Karen/Mags <kdd...@fuse.net> wrote in article
<3847FA6A...@fuse.net>...


> Publishing houses usually only deal with agents since they know
> the ins and outs and have previewed any works submitted for
consideration.

So publishers are snowed under with MSS, and rely on agents to filter
out some of the crap. Agents, by turn, are snowed under. I see a
business opportunity here. I'm going to set up as an agents' referral
service. You send your MS to me, I read it and, after scrapping the
piles of old bollocks (which will never, ever run out) send your work
along to the agent most suitable. They take the book and hawk it round
the publishers. I get a finder's fee from the agent, and a cut of his
cut if the book sells.

Pretty soon, the way I see it, the demands on my time will be so great,
I may have to farm out some of the work to sub-contractors, who will
read my slush pile and only pass to me those MSS worthy of my
consideration. There may be a chance for one of you laggards to get a
foot on the first rung on the ladder.

I don't see why a slump in the publication of new authors should be a
bad thing for everyone.

AH

Victoria Strauss

unread,
Dec 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/5/99
to
Getteur wrote:
>
> >For the straight dope on this, go to the SFWA website:
> >
> >http://www.sfwa.org
> >
> >and click on "Writer Beware."
> >
> >Good luck!

> >
> >-Ann C. Crispin
> >Vice President, SFWA
>
> What if it's not science fiction?

Writer Beware is part of the SFWA website, but it provides information
that's applicable to all writers and all genres. Literary scamsters
don't discriminate, after all.

-Victoria
--------------------------------------------------------
Victoria Strauss
THE GARDEN OF THE STONE (Avon Eos 1999)
Homepage: http://www.sff.net/people/victoriastrauss
Writer Beware: http://www.sfwa.org/Beware/Warnings.html

amelia...@my-deja.com

unread,
Dec 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/7/99
to
The notion that agents do not want new unpublished writers is a myth.
Don't believe it. Send out query letters and start from the top. A query
letter is something agents DO read and then if they're interested they
will ask you for your manuscript. I sent out quite a few query letters
and I had TEN VERY BIG agents ask for my manuscript. I got rejects from
two of them and am waiting on the eight others. I might get rejects from
all eight...but the point is that they did care to ask, which means they
read the query letter and were curious. Don't give up hope. Keep sending
query letters, they cost you 33 cents to mail and the response, trust me
gives you faith and confidence in your own writing.

Agents DO NOT send a sticker along with their letter. They have a system
themselves to sieve out those who put "REQUESTED MATERIAL" on the
envelopes without being asked to send a manuscript. These agents are
smart and organized...they have to be. They juggle multiple clients and
their royalties and their careers.


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

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