Yippee, rough draft is done!
RDeschene
OK, first novel here, I'm 54,080 words into it now, all the characters
are set, all the major plot points are in place, most of the character
dialogue is in place, and most of the narrative is in place. It feels
good, but only in a temporary way.
So, fellow alt.writers, when you reach this point in your writing, do
you stay away from the story for a while, do you continue tinkering
with it, or what? The plan is that next, my husband will read it and
pencil in whatever editing suggestions he has, then I'll go through
and write a second draft, and then probably a third draft. Do any of
you let someone else read it at this early stage, or do you wait until
you've written the second or third draft?
Sue
Rachel Duke
RDeschene wrote:
Yikes, I don't even let my husband read my work at the second or third
draft stage. We have an agreement that I don't ask him to read any early
revisions, and he agrees to read the published product and praise me to
the high Heavens. My critique group gets my third or fourth draft.
But, to each her own (I have a friend whose husband reads all of her work
early on and the arrangement appears to be working out well).
Rachel Duke
RDeschene
Oh, blast I always forget to put this at the end of my posts:
To send e-mail, remove NOSPAM from e-mail address.
Sorry 'bout that! :-P
Sue
RDeschene
Rachel Duke wrote:
>
> Yikes, I don't even let my husband read my work at the second or third
> draft stage. We have an agreement that I don't ask him to read any early
> revisions, and he agrees to read the published product and praise me to
> the high Heavens. My critique group gets my third or fourth draft.
>
> But, to each her own (I have a friend whose husband reads all of her work
> early on and the arrangement appears to be working out well).
>
> Rachel Duke
Well, someone else had suggested, in reply to an earlier post, having
someone you trust -- be it a husband, wife, close friend, or whomever --
read the manuscript before submitting it. And my husband is someone I
trust, someone whose criticisms I know will be constructive because
that's how he approaches everything. He's a fairly objective soul,
though he does seem to have this thing for my writing. I don't know why.
;-) At any rate, I do want someone to read it before submitting it, and
I also want someone I trust to see at some point in the revision
process. That's why I asked, to see if anyone else felt the same way, or
could give reasons why they *don't* want someone to see it in the early
stages. For example, is there any particular reason why you don't want
your husband to see it in any stage other than publication? And do you
show it to someone other than your husband prior to submitting it as a
manuscript?
Sue
RDeschene
>My critique group gets my third or fourth draft.
>
Ooops, sorry, I missed this portion of your message. Who comprises
your critique group, and how did you form it?
Sue
edi...@picadesign.com
In article <3544BA04...@earthlink.net>#1/1,
Rachel Duke <rache...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> RDeschene wrote:
>
> > OK, first novel here, I'm 54,080 words into it now, all the characters
> > are set, all the major plot points are in place, most of the character
> > dialogue is in place, and most of the narrative is in place. It feels
> > good, but only in a temporary way.
> >
> > So, fellow alt.writers, when you reach this point in your writing, do
> > you stay away from the story for a while, do you continue tinkering
> > with it, or what? The plan is that next, my husband will read it and
> > pencil in whatever editing suggestions he has, then I'll go through
> > and write a second draft, and then probably a third draft. Do any of
> > you let someone else read it at this early stage, or do you wait until
> > you've written the second or third draft?
>
> draft stage. We have an agreement that I don't ask him to read any early
> revisions, and he agrees to read the published product and praise me to
> the high Heavens. My critique group gets my third or fourth draft.
>
> But, to each her own (I have a friend whose husband reads all of her work
> early on and the arrangement appears to be working out well).
>
> Rachel Duke
>
>
i find that i'm really good at taking criticism, but only after *I* think a
piece is done. before that, i get defensive etc...
however, with a piece of about that length, i found that i could work on
parts that i hadn't addressed in a while, and not feel bogged down. there was
always something to do, and (this may just be my ego) i would often find that
in re-reading, i would get to say, hey i forgot i wrote that. wow. i'm
really good at this. ;-)
and there was no one around to disagree.
later, yes, i took some time off and found a few glaring ommissions, but now i
can show it around without nervousness. just my $.02
L Verde
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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Chris Procter
> OK, first novel here, I'm 54,080 words into it now, all the characters
> are set, all the major plot points are in place, most of the character
> dialogue is in place, and most of the narrative is in place. It feels
> good, but only in a temporary way.
> So, fellow alt.writers, when you reach this point in your writing, do
> you stay away from the story for a while, do you continue tinkering
> with it, or what? The plan is that next, my husband will read it and
> pencil in whatever editing suggestions he has, then I'll go through
> and write a second draft, and then probably a third draft. Do any of
> you let someone else read it at this early stage, or do you wait until
> you've written the second or third draft?
I tend to revise my work as I go along. Each chapter gets revised many,
many times quite often when I go back after a while things need changing
anyway as the narrative progresses. I try to get lots of people to read it
as I go along and look for honest critisism. I find it useful as well to
get comments from people who aren't used to the genre. I write SF and it
is useful to have people tell me if I get tp technical.
Hope this is usefull.
congratulations
all the best
Chris
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"All is for the best, in the best of all possible worlds" - Voltaire
Http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/haestingas/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RDeschene
On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:35:25 -0600, edi...@picadesign.com wrote:
>i find that i'm really good at taking criticism, but only after *I* think a
>piece is done. before that, i get defensive etc...
>
>however, with a piece of about that length, i found that i could work on
>parts that i hadn't addressed in a while, and not feel bogged down. there was
>always something to do, and (this may just be my ego) i would often find that
>in re-reading, i would get to say, hey i forgot i wrote that. wow. i'm
>really good at this. ;-)
>
Here's what I posted on misc.writing, which sort of ties in with what
you've written:
I agree with what you've said. However, I guess what I'm looking for,
in part, is someone to edit factual inconsistencies, those things that
are very difficult for me to catch because I'm too close to it right
now. Like, did I get my time sequences in the proper order? It's very
easy to mess up on that because my brain reads it as being correct,
when in reality I may have transposed certain elements in my haste to
get them written down. Make sense? My husband has a great eye for
those sorts of details. It's not so much that I think he'd tell me how
to write a certain scene or character, as much as he would tell me
where I've gotten certain sequences transposed, or I've not fully
explained or developed them enough. I feel as though that's the "eye"
I need right now. Any suggestions on getting past this any other way?
Sue
Lillian Elizabeth Rhodes
The message <354553c9...@news.recorder.ca>
from RDes...@NOSPAMrecorder.ca (RDeschene) contains these words:
>
> I agree with what you've said. However, I guess what I'm looking for,
> in part, is someone to edit factual inconsistencies, those things that
> are very difficult for me to catch because I'm too close to it right
> now. Like, did I get my time sequences in the proper order? It's very
> easy to mess up on that because my brain reads it as being correct,
> when in reality I may have transposed certain elements in my haste to
> get them written down. Make sense?
It does, but I think I would be inclined to choose someone not
*quite* so close to you ... maybe a good friend? I only say this
because I know how difficult it is for *my* husband to be objective
and supportive about my writing - *and* how difficult I find it to
take any criticism from him!!!
Whatever you decide - hope it works for you!
Liz Rhodes (another wannabe writer)
Corwin
> So, fellow alt.writers, when you reach this point in your writing, do
> you stay away from the story for a while, do you continue tinkering
> with it, or what?
I try to spend at least a little time away when I'm done. I've found that
if I go back and proof a short story a good week or so after it's
completed, I'll find more mistakes, typos, plot mistakes, etc.
> The plan is that next, my husband will read it and
> pencil in whatever editing suggestions he has, then I'll go through
> and write a second draft, and then probably a third draft. Do any of
> you let someone else read it at this early stage, or do you wait until
> you've written the second or third draft?
If your husband gives you honest critique, then great. My wife tends to be
a little biased (she says she just likes my work) so I have a friend of
ours read my work as I produce it, usually a chapter at a time for my
novel. He really likes my stuff, but is not a fraid to tell me what
doesn't make sense or what seems a little wierd.
Another tip that my friend and I have come up with, while doing feedback
as the story progresses, is he can tell me where he thinks the character
is going or what he sees as different characters' motivations. That way, I
have a general understanding of what the reader will be thinking at any
given time in the book. It's helped with some of my revisions and the way
I have handled the progress afterwards. No major changes were necessary,
but it allowed me to use a few different literary tricks (for lack of a
better phrase).
Good luck,
Mike
cor...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.netcom.com/~corwin/index.htm
Rachel Duke
RDeschene wrote:
> Rachel Duke wrote:
> >
> > Yikes, I don't even let my husband read my work at the second or third
> > draft stage. We have an agreement that I don't ask him to read any early
> > revisions, and he agrees to read the published product and praise me to
> > the high Heavens. My critique group gets my third or fourth draft.
> >
> > But, to each her own (I have a friend whose husband reads all of her work
> > early on and the arrangement appears to be working out well).
> >
> > Rachel Duke
>
> Well, someone else had suggested, in reply to an earlier post, having
> someone you trust -- be it a husband, wife, close friend, or whomever --
> read the manuscript before submitting it. And my husband is someone I
> trust, someone whose criticisms I know will be constructive because
> that's how he approaches everything. He's a fairly objective soul,
> though he does seem to have this thing for my writing. I don't know why.
> ;-) At any rate, I do want someone to read it before submitting it, and
> I also want someone I trust to see at some point in the revision
> process. That's why I asked, to see if anyone else felt the same way, or
> could give reasons why they *don't* want someone to see it in the early
> stages. For example, is there any particular reason why you don't want
> your husband to see it in any stage other than publication?
Because my husband and I are worlds apart in what we enjoy reading. I write
mainstream short stories (the kind in a typical woman's magazine), Ermma
Bombeck style essays, and romance novels. He reads hard-core sci-fi/fantasy
(heavy on the technical aspect with a few human characters thrown in for window
dressing). Think "Johnny Mnemonic" on steroids <grin>.
I asked my husband to read my work when I first started writing. He focused on
things like, can your character drink a can of COKE without us losing the
house, cars, and our first born to the Coca-Cola Bottling Company for copyright
infringement? And then he stayed on that comment for 15 to 20 minutes until I
was completely exasperated. Or, I asked him to read a scene and give me his
impression of the dialogue. We never got that far -- he stopped at the first
paragraph and wanted to know what the male protagonist is hunched over his
desk, with his face in his hands. "Because he just came from the ICU where he
discovered that his father's at death's door, Dear." Then he argued how, in a
similar circumstance, that he (meaning my husband) wouldn't hunch over his
desk. We discussed it, I explained that my character wasn't my husband,
therefore he wouldn't do everything EXACTLY the same way my husband does, etc.
Finally we got to the point where he was dreading me asking him to read my
stuff, and I was dreading asking him. So, we came to our agreement. Our
marriage has been much happier ever since.
> And do you
> show it to someone other than your husband prior to submitting it as a
> manuscript?
Of course! I stated in my original post that my critique group gets my 3rd or
4th draft. I wouldn't dare send ANYTHING out without running it past them
first.
Rachel Duke
>
>
> Sue
Broca
Corwin (cor...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: > So, fellow alt.writers, when you reach this point in your writing, do
>< I didn't even tell my husband I was writing a book until I got the
call from the publisher who accepted it. Of course, the second time
around, he knew I was writing, but I didn't let him read it until I
got an ARC. As a matter of fact, I haven't let anyone but the pub-
lishers I submitted it to read any of my books.
However, if you do think that you need some feedback on your
work, I would suggest a writing group. They can be very helpful and
there are usually ground rules for critiquing the work of members in
the group. As far as the detail stuff goes, a good copy editor should
pick up inconsistencies- (I had a Vega in my second book that became
a Nova 3/4 way through, I used the TV show Jeopardy, and didn't put
the ! that's part of its trademark; the copy editor picked those things
up). If you want it as perfect as possible, try giving yourself a
little time away from the work, then go back- sometimes that distance
brings errors into focus. But if you're impatient to have it read, I
would suggest you ask someone you don't have a personal relationship
with. If he truly doesn't like it, how are you going to feel? How is
he going to feel?
J. Rubino
DEATH OF A DJ
FRUITCAKE
Coming in August '98 - CHEAT THE DEVIL
The Cat Austen/Victor Cardenas mysteries from Write Way Publishing
Ann
>RDeschene wrote:
>
>> OK, first novel here, I'm 54,080 words into it now, all the characters
>> are set, all the major plot points are in place, most of the character
>> dialogue is in place, and most of the narrative is in place. It feels
>> good, but only in a temporary way.
>>
>> So, fellow alt.writers, when you reach this point in your writing, do
>> you stay away from the story for a while, do you continue tinkering
>> with it, or what? The plan is that next, my husband will read it and
>> pencil in whatever editing suggestions he has, then I'll go through
>> and write a second draft, and then probably a third draft. Do any of
>> you let someone else read it at this early stage, or do you wait until
>> you've written the second or third draft?
Let anyone read my first draft? I'd rather jump from a 20-storey
building....
Usually you should stay away from your draft for a few days/weeks/months
before you do any major editing. Of course, in the meantime, if you
discover any error that is screaming for your attention, then go to it. You
will find that it's easier, however, to spot mistakes (spelling, grammer,
etc) after a few days away from your work.
You'll be more objective when you view your story then:
"Goodness! Did I actually write that sentence?! Even my little nephew can
do a better job."
Ann
BTW, congrats on the completion of your first draft!
RDeschene
Rachel Duke wrote:
>
> > For example, is there any particular reason why you don't want
> > your husband to see it in any stage other than publication?
>
> Because my husband and I are worlds apart in what we enjoy reading. I write
> mainstream short stories (the kind in a typical woman's magazine), Ermma
> Bombeck style essays, and romance novels. He reads hard-core sci-fi/fantasy
> (heavy on the technical aspect with a few human characters thrown in for window
> dressing). Think "Johnny Mnemonic" on steroids <grin>.
>
do meet up every now and then. For example, we both read Tolstoy,
Umberto Eco, Barbara Kingsolver and Charles de Lint. Then I tend to go
more for Kate Atkinson, while hubby's currently into "Alternative
Realities" by Leonard George, and his second reading of "The Dilbert
Principle." So, yeah, our tastes vary, but we meet somewhere in the
middle, too. ;-)
Sue
Joe
RDeschene <RDes...@recorder.ca> wrote:
>Umberto Eco, Barbara Kingsolver and Charles de Lint. Then I tend to go
>more for Kate Atkinson, while hubby's currently into "Alternative
>Realities" by Leonard George,
I haven't read them, but I'm told that Harry Turtledove is the master
of "alternate reality" stories. You might want to mention it to your
hubby (or just pop over to www.amazon.com and surprise him with one).
Joe
RDeschene
Ann wrote:
>
> BTW, congrats on the completion of your first draft!
Thanks! Someone else posted that they actually edit in bits and pieces,
which is what I find myself doing now. So, I guess it's technically a
"first draft" ... but constantly in revision. ;-)
Sue
jsumm...@earthlink.net
Hi, I'm new here, been lurking for a bit and I just had to respond to
your message about letting significant others read drafts and the
difference in reading preferences. I'm in the middle of writing my
novel and I let my fiance read a chapter when I'm pretty sure it's
"done". I value his opinion as an intelligent reader and the feedback I
receive from him is that of a reader. My writing partner, on the other
hand, reads these same chapters and gives me feedback not only as a
reader but as a writer which is a whole other angle! Between the two of
them, I think I get good advice!
- Madeline
made...@earthlink.net
RDeschene wrote:
>
> Rachel Duke wrote:
> >
> > > For example, is there any particular reason why you don't want
> > > your husband to see it in any stage other than publication?
> >
> > Because my husband and I are worlds apart in what we enjoy reading. I write
> > mainstream short stories (the kind in a typical woman's magazine), Ermma
> > Bombeck style essays, and romance novels. He reads hard-core sci-fi/fantasy
> > (heavy on the technical aspect with a few human characters thrown in for window
> > dressing). Think "Johnny Mnemonic" on steroids <grin>.
> >
> Well, my husband and I do travel different paths in our reading, but we
> do meet up every now and then. For example, we both read Tolstoy,
> Umberto Eco, Barbara Kingsolver and Charles de Lint. Then I tend to go
> more for Kate Atkinson, while hubby's currently into "Alternative
RDeschene
On Mon, 04 May 1998 12:30:51 +0000, jsumm...@earthlink.net wrote:
>Hi, I'm new here, been lurking for a bit and I just had to respond to
>your message about letting significant others read drafts and the
>difference in reading preferences. I'm in the middle of writing my
>novel and I let my fiance read a chapter when I'm pretty sure it's
>"done". I value his opinion as an intelligent reader and the feedback I
>receive from him is that of a reader. My writing partner, on the other
>hand, reads these same chapters and gives me feedback not only as a
>reader but as a writer which is a whole other angle! Between the two of
>them, I think I get good advice!
>
Ah, excellent! I like your "reader" vs. "writer" angle. I think my
husband is like your fiance, in that he's a very intelligent reader.
And that's the type of advice I'd be seeking from him, at whatever
point I decide to hand it over to him. Thanks!
Sue