Fantasy piece for review (LONG)
Jason Green
It's nowhere near finished, but I wouldn't mind having the opinions
(positive and negative, constructive and destructive) of the group. If you
manage to read the whole thing, you have my thanks. Even if you just want
to comment on the first sentence, you have my thanks.
Sunlight scintillated softly, like music, off the crystal goblet. The
colors danced and cascaded off the wall, casting shattered shadows on the
tapestry behind the banquet table. All around, the rich and powerful of the
kingdom laughed and talked as quiet schemes formed in their heads. On the
surface, it would seem to be a merry party. But underneath that happy
façade plans were hatched, alliances formed, enemies created. It was
exactly the kind of party Tolian Vandermeer hated, but always found himself
attending. How could a simple knight refuse the invitations of kings or
princes? He lifted the crystal goblet once again to his lips, knowing that
he should be wary of the drink, but wanting some way to avoid the empty
conversation that bubbled around him.
To his left sat Mikan Talldraught, head of the Armorers Guild. Despite his
advancing age he was powerfully muscled, proof that his was a labor of love.
Looking closer, he could see the scarred and oft-burned hands of a master
smith, and his thick fingers looked far more suited to a pair of tongs and a
hammer than the fine silver he was currently using to slice off a thick hunk
of mutton. Mikan was one of the few people at the table that Tolian knew
personally, having often visited his smithy for new armor, or to repair what
he already owned. Lifting the goblet to his lips once again, he felt a pang
of sadness for his old friend. He had lost his only son in the War of the
Light 5 years hence, and he had not been the same since.
To Tolian's right sat Loysan Martoch. Cunning and, in Tolian's appraisal,
evil. Loysan was the King's half brother. Scorned by the royal family, he
had nevertheless forged a way for himself, eventually gaining enough support
in the courts that the king was forced to recognize him. Hoping to appease
him, as well as get him out of the way, Loysan had been granted a duchy in
Rastem, at the southern tip of the kingdom. This proved to be a mistake, as
Rastem, a once peaceful duchy, had been attacked last year by the Island
kingdom of Ipsil. Rastem, thinking quickly, had managed to turn himself
into the protector of the kingdom, for as he often pointed out, if Rastem
falls, can the kingdom be far behind? He had become something of a court
darling, and tales were told, doubtless started by Loysan himself, of his
heroics in battle.
Across from Tolian sat Princess Kayrell, the king's youngest daughter,
barely seventeen years old, and without question the most beautiful woman
Tolian had ever seen. As a knight, Tolian was intimately familiar with the
code of chivalry, but he could not keep lustful thoughts of the princess out
of his mind. Just to look at her, to see the play of light in her hair, the
swell of her breast against the tight satin of her dress, was more than he
could bear. Remember your station, he chastised himself. The daughter of
the king was meant for a prince, not a lowly knight without enough land to
build an outhouse on.
The doors to the chamber swung wide, and all at the table rose (although
Rastem waited so long as to be a mere heartbeat from insolence, Tolian
noted). The King seemed to have noticed as well, for his eyes lingered on
his half brother a moment before sweeping the rest of the assembled Lords
and Ladies with his powerful gaze. Even at fifty years King Shaynek was
easily a match for any man in the room. Tolian's heart swelled with love
and respect for his King. He was truly a man worth following. Wise and
just, fair to his subjects, he was the protector of his people, and the
scourge of his enemies. Tolian reflected upon how King Shaynek had rode at
the forefront of his army at the Battle of Linthis five years ago, wading
through the ranks of opposing knights until he stood face to face with King
Moyris of the Anesians. Moyris had been a worthy opponent, and his body had
been sent back to his family with the respect deserving a king. But his
right hand was sent back on a pike, so that all of his subjects could see
that the Royal Seal was no longer upon the hand of an Anesian. Even now,
King Shaynek wore that sparkling platinum and ruby ring on his right hand,
as a reminder that the Anesians were now his subjects as well.
King Shaynek lifted his hand for silence, received it, and spoke. "Those of
you gathered here tonight are aware of my feelings for my subjects. I have
long been a King who lived only to serve my people, protecting them from
harm, from injustice, and providing them with laws and an environment that
provides them with the freedom to conduct their lives with dignity and
grace. I would never willingly sacrifice those ideals for any reason, for
any foe, for any danger. My reign has been benevolent and, I hope,
beneficial." He paused, his hand going to the bridge of his nose, as if he
was suddenly lost in thought. It was then that Tolian noticed the paper
clenched in his left hand, gripped so tightly that his knuckles were white.
This did not bode well. "Tonight," the King continued, "I have received
disturbing news. Disturbing not because of the news itself, which I had
been expecting for some time, but disturbing for the actions it forces me to
take." He paused once again, and Tolian saw the painful resolve in his
eyes. The King looked directly at Tolian, caught his eye, and then looked
once again at his half brother. Tolian looked at Loysan, and saw the look
of interest, as if he half knew what was to come. Just seeing that look
made Tolian want to slit the man's throat, and he had to stop his hand from
reaching for the blade on his hip. The King spoke; "From this night
forward, I am declaring martial law. All troops will be moved inside the
city walls, and any attempt to get in or out of the city will result in
immediate execution. All assets maintained by the citizenry are to be
turned over to the government. Anyone found to be hiding assets will be
executed immediately. Food will be distributed equally among all people,
regardless of age, rank, or social station. Any rioters, looters, or
criminals will be executed. Immediately."
There was a stunned silence in the room for a handful of heartbeats, then
Loysan sat down and resumed eating. It seemed to break the silence, for
suddenly the air was thick with questions. Cries of "How can you do this?"
and "The people will not stand for it!" combined with queries of "What is
the news you received?" and, from a few, "When does this take effect? Can
we still get out of the city?" The King replied to this last question
simply, "The city gates close in one hour". "The only people who will be
allowed in after that will be troops."
Through all this, Tolian sat silently, staring at Loysan, who seemed
concerned only with his stomach. Watching the man eat brought his rage
forth like a crack in a dam leads to a river unleashed. He brought his fist
down on the table so hard that every glass spilled and every plate jumped.
The banquet hall instantly went quiet. Loysan looked up into his eyes as
Tolian spoke. "This is your doing, Loysan" he growled, leaning closer to
the man. "Tell me what underhanded scheme you have hatched that would lead
the greatest King we have ever known to subject his people to such harsh
rule. Tell me now or that will be the last bite of food that ever crosses
your lips." Tolian drew himself to his full height, towering a head above
all in the room save the king. His black velvet shirt strained mightily as
his arms worked to clench his fists into two steel balls. He brushed the
long blond hair, free from its warrior's tale for this occasion only, away
from his eyes. He unclenched his fists, placed both hands on the table,
leaned to within inches of Loysan, Tolian's gray eyes staring menacingly
into the dark, almost black eyes of his new enemy, and bellowed "TELL ME NOW
OR I WILL KILL YOU WHERE YOU SIT!"
It was the king who spoke next. "Stand down, Tolian." He said simply.
There was no anger in his voice, only a deep sadness tinged with fatigue.
Tolian's head whipped towards his King, a man he would have followed into
the depths of Hades, and for the first time in his life, he considered
disobeying orders. It would be so simple to reach across the table and
snuff out Loysan's life. But he could not disobey his King. He turned from
Loysan, stood rigid, facing his King, chest heaving, fists clenching and
unclenching, eyes staring through the wall behind the King's head. He dared
not speak for fear of his rage overcoming him, and so said nothing. "Loysan
is not your enemy in this, nor mine. In fact, it is Loysan who has given me
the proof necessitating these harsh laws, and it will be for the good of the
kingdom in the long run. When I can tell you all more," he said, now
including the rest of the room in his conversation, "I will gather you once
again. For now, enjoy my hospitality, eat and drink as much as you like. I
am afraid we are all facing some lean times ahead. I understand if some of
you are anxious to leave, many of you have families outside these city
walls. If you must go to them, then go. But if you do go, you must not
return. I can show absolutely no preferential treatment to anyone,
including those of you in this room. If you leave, and try to re-enter, you
will be executed immediately. I must return to my chambers, for I have much
to plan. Tolian, I would appreciate you company." Tolian immediately
complied, striding to stand behind his King, who faced the door. "Loysan,"
said the King, "you had better come too."
Tolian Vandermeer, Captain of the Royal Guard of Tosan, a man of twenty four
winters, a man who had fought and survived six major battles and countless
minor skirmishes, was confused and afraid. As he strode through the halls
of the Royal Palace of Tosan, his mind was awash in what he had learned, and
at how much he did not know. His long strides through the maze of corridors
were taken without conscious thought. Normally, the architecture of the
castle was a source of wondrous pride, its high, arched corridors meandering
past courtyards filled with beautiful gardens, small ponds with cascading
waterfalls, statues, and sculptures. The castle, despite its beauty, was a
formidable fortress. Twice in the past two hundred years it had been the
object of conquest, and both times the castle had proven impenetrable. The
battle of Frost, some three hundred years ago, had actually broken through
the south wall, but at such a cost in life that the remaining soldiers of
Ysenglad had no hope of defeating the hale soldiers that waited within. In
the end, it was the breach of that wall that decided the war in the Kingdom'
s favor.
He felt a tap on his shoulder. Turning his head, he found himself looking
into the face of Loysan.
"What?" He fumed through clenched teeth.
"Tolian," began Loysan, "you misunderstand me, I'm afraid. I want only the
best for this kingdom,"
"Good, throw yourself out the next window and do us all a favor."
"Tolian, please let me finish. I know I'm not your favorite, and I know
there is bad blood between us, but I want you to know that this is none of
my doing."
Tolian stopped in the middle of the hallway. Grabbing Loysan by the collar,
he hauled the man up onto his toes so that they were eye to eye. "If you
had just saved 100 babies from a burning building, I would toss you back
into that building in the hopes that you would be consumed. You claim that
this is none of your doing? Fine. I don't give a damn. You are still the
worst of all these petty, mindless, squabbling nobles who threaten on a
daily basis to splinter this Kingdom because of your greed and ego."
Loysan smiled his best disarming smile, all the while trying to extricate
himself from Tolian's grasp. The King's Champion smelled just enough of
alcohol to truly frighten Loysan, though he struggled not to let that show.
"Tolian, please, give me a chance. I can help the Kingdom. I know how you
feel about me, but trust me, you need me!"
Tolian stared into his eyes for a moment longer, pupils dilated in anger. He
shoved off from Loysan, releasing his shirt. Loysan, unprepared, fell to
the floor. Turning away, Tolian spoke in a gruff voice.
"Just stay the hell away from me. I want no part of your schemes."
Loysan picked himself up off the floor, brushing dust from his arms, tugging
at the bottom of his shirt to straighten it. All the while he watched
Tolian stomp away from him, eventually disappearing around a corner.
"You will need me, my friend, you will all need me, in the end."
Outside, the business of the Kingdom of Tosan was slowly coming to a halt.
--
Jason C. Green
j...@t2000llc.yourattitude.com
To reply to me via e-mail, please get rid of your attitude
paghat
<j...@t2000llc.yourattitude.com> wrote:
> Sunlight scintillated softly, like music, off the crystal goblet.
Music scintillates off crystal goblets? You've created an example of
subjunctive tension akin to "He strained his eyes through the viser
screen" or "The sun came through the window."
> Mikan was one of the few people at the table that Tolian knew
> personally, having often visited his smithy for new armor,
Is "his smithy" Mikan's smithy or Tolian's smithy?
> Lifting the goblet to his lips once again, he felt a pang
> of sadness for his old friend.
Was the pang on the lip of the goblet?
> He had lost his only son in the War of the
> Light 5 years hence, and he had not been the same since.
Yes, someone wouldn't be the same after they die.
> Scorned by the royal family, he
> had nevertheless forged a way for himself, eventually gaining enough support
> in the courts that the king was forced to recognize him.
"Oh, hi! Don't I know you?"
> Hoping to appease
> him, as well as get him out of the way, Loysan had been granted a duchy in
> Rastem, at the southern tip of the kingdom.
By which we are to understand the Kingdom is shaped like an inverted
pyramid or a pencil?
> Across from Tolian sat Princess Kayrell, the king's youngest daughter,
> barely seventeen years old, and without question the most beautiful woman
> Tolian had ever seen.
Talk about shallow character study, sheesh. Maybe the standard of beauty
in the Kingdom requires huge warts on flabby chins. I sure hope so.
> As a knight, Tolian was intimately familiar with the
> code of chivalry, but he could not keep lustful thoughts of the princess out
> of his mind.
He's out of his mind eh?
> Just to look at her, to see the play of light in her hair,
light scintillating like music from a goblet perhaps?
> the
> swell of her breast against the tight satin of her dress, was more than he
> could bear.
He's trying to bear her breasts or her tight satin dress? Maybe he should
find a sympathetic tailor if he wants to crossdress.
> Remember your station, he chastised himself. The daughter of
> the king was meant for a prince, not a lowly knight without enough land to
> build an outhouse on.
On which to build an outhouse don't you mean. And you need to do some
research on what constitutes a knight before you draw any other silly
conclusions about knights.
> his eyes lingered on
> his half brother a moment before sweeping the rest of the assembled Lords
> and Ladies with his powerful gaze.
They'd gotten dusty? Another example of subjunctive tension.
I can't read any more. It's truly abysmal. I hope it's not the writing of
an adult because that'd be truly tragic.
-paghat the ratgirl
> --
> Jason C. Green
Jason Green
up for in sense. I'm not in any writing groups other than this one, so you
are the first person to read this. I realize you are trying to insult me,
but you make good points.
--
Jason C. Green
j...@t2000llc.yourattitude.com
To reply to me via e-mail, please get rid of your attitude
paghat <paggersSP...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7mlah9$oph$0...@199.201.191.2...
> In article <7ml3at$7so$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, "Jason Green"
> <j...@t2000llc.yourattitude.com> wrote:
>
> > Sunlight scintillated softly, like music, off the crystal goblet.
>
> Music scintillates off crystal goblets? You've created an example of
> subjunctive tension akin to "He strained his eyes through the viser
> screen" or "The sun came through the window."
Gotcha.
>
> > Mikan was one of the few people at the table that Tolian knew
> > personally, having often visited his smithy for new armor,
>
> Is "his smithy" Mikan's smithy or Tolian's smithy?
I described Mikan as the armorer, so it would be him with the smithy.
>
> > Lifting the goblet to his lips once again, he felt a pang
> > of sadness for his old friend.
>
> Was the pang on the lip of the goblet?
No, but both happened at the same time. I was trying to make it clear there
was a meal going on while he was having these thoughts.
>
> > He had lost his only son in the War of the
> > Light 5 years hence, and he had not been the same since.
>
> Yes, someone wouldn't be the same after they die.
So it should be "Mikan had not been the same since", I guess, right?
>
> > Scorned by the royal family, he
> > had nevertheless forged a way for himself, eventually gaining enough
support
> > in the courts that the king was forced to recognize him.
>
> "Oh, hi! Don't I know you?"
LOL! Hadn't really considered it could be read that way. I meant that the
King was forced to recognize his tie to the throne. Poorly put, I agree.
>
> > Hoping to appease
> > him, as well as get him out of the way, Loysan had been granted a duchy
in
> > Rastem, at the southern tip of the kingdom.
>
> By which we are to understand the Kingdom is shaped like an inverted
> pyramid or a pencil?
Upside down pear, maybe? Texas? Florida? Italy? I don't know...
>
> > Across from Tolian sat Princess Kayrell, the king's youngest daughter,
> > barely seventeen years old, and without question the most beautiful
woman
> > Tolian had ever seen.
>
> Talk about shallow character study, sheesh. Maybe the standard of beauty
> in the Kingdom requires huge warts on flabby chins. I sure hope so.
I thought we could get to her later. Does someone have to be described in
detail as soon as they are mentioned?
>
> > As a knight, Tolian was intimately familiar with the
> > code of chivalry, but he could not keep lustful thoughts of the princess
out
> > of his mind.
>
> He's out of his mind eh?
Huh?
>
> > Just to look at her, to see the play of light in her hair,
>
> light scintillating like music from a goblet perhaps?
Trite and hackneyed, you think?
>
> > the
> > swell of her breast against the tight satin of her dress, was more than
he
> > could bear.
>
> He's trying to bear her breasts or her tight satin dress? Maybe he should
> find a sympathetic tailor if he wants to crossdress.
Both. He is awed by her rack popping out of her dress!
>
> > Remember your station, he chastised himself. The daughter of
> > the king was meant for a prince, not a lowly knight without enough land
to
> > build an outhouse on.
>
> On which to build an outhouse don't you mean. And you need to do some
> research on what constitutes a knight before you draw any other silly
> conclusions about knights.
Yes, it was dangling, I guess. Are you saying that all knights were hedge
knights? Or they all had large parcels of land?
>
> > his eyes lingered on
> > his half brother a moment before sweeping the rest of the assembled
Lords
> > and Ladies with his powerful gaze.
>
> They'd gotten dusty? Another example of subjunctive tension.
Gotcha again.
>
> I can't read any more. It's truly abysmal. I hope it's not the writing of
> an adult because that'd be truly tragic.
Now that's just mean.
Ejucaided Redneck
>
>What you lack in civility you make up for in sense... I realize you are trying to insult me, but you make good points.
>
Jason, what you did, bubba, was post for criticism a truly rotten piece
of writing, in a group where the general consensus is the group does
_not_ exist to do crits.
If you can't stand the heat of honest criticism, don't hang your weenie
over the fire.
"Paghat the ratgirl" gave what you asked for. That you perceive it to
be uncivil does not bode well for your future as a writer.
--
Looking for something to read?
Try http://www.netbasix.com/~rlsloan/
(Now includes all the "Notes From the Top of the Hill,"
plus some funny stuff.)
PLEASE SIGN THE GUEST BOOK
Michael Kelly
Jason Green <j...@t2000llc.yourattitude.com> wrote in message
news:7ml3at$7so$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net...
> This is a part of a novel I have been working on for about the last 2
years.
> It's nowhere near finished, but I wouldn't mind having the opinions
> (positive and negative, constructive and destructive) of the group. If
you
> manage to read the whole thing, you have my thanks. Even if you just want
> to comment on the first sentence, you have my thanks.
Jason,
I personally love this. Your writing is visual and your character
development shows a lot of promise!
My only negative remarks are that the story may be a little busy (for a
novel, not a short story) and to watch your audience. It may be just
reading the story as it is formatted on the screen, but at times I felt
challenged to keep the flow of dialog with the character presenting it. The
use of words such as scintillated may throw your average reader and break
the illusion you are creating.
In summary, I believe this as written would end up in one of my cherished
tomes of literature and not in the best sellers list. For a newsgroup such
as this where the writing tends to be well above average this piece works
well.
Michael Kelly, Webmaster
Midnight Community - A place made for friends!
http://www.exchangenet.net/midnight
mik...@exchangenet.net ICQ # 38517483
paghat
<j...@t2000llc.yourattitude.com> wrote:
> Wow. Thanks for your comments, Paghat. What you lack in civility you make
> up for in sense. I'm not in any writing groups other than this one, so you
> are the first person to read this. I realize you are trying to insult me,
> but you make good points.
Yup, it does help to be thickskinned if you're gonna put rough drafts of
first attempts before the public. Sometimes there's something to be
learned, often not.
-paghat the ratgirl
Michael Kelly
> I can't read any more. It's truly abysmal. I hope it's not the writing of
> an adult because that'd be truly tragic.
>
> -paghat the ratgirl
And I wondered how she got the name ratgirl....
Jason Green
My skin is getting thicker by the moment! After reading your post to me, I
went and checked out some of your other posts. What you wrote about
self-publishing had me rolling on the floor. You are a straight shooter,
and that's exactly what I was looking for. I really appreciate it.
I play a lot of basketball. When I was first learning, I reached a certain
point, and then couldn't get any better. At the time, I was going to school
at Washington State, and they have this huge indoor gym. I started playing
basketball there, and the first day, I was laughed off the court. But I
kept coming back. Only when I started playing with people who were much
better than I am did I begin to get better.
Hopefully, that's what will happen here.
Thanks again. Everyone. I hope you will be as brutally honest with
everything else I post.
-Jason
>
> -paghat the ratgirl
Jason Green
when I came in here was to ask for some guidelines, or an FAQ or something.
Everybody said, "Hey! Don't worry about it! Just pop in and say whatever
you want!"
Well, it seems as if every time I do that, someone takes it the wrong way or
gets bent out of shape! I see people posting their writing in here all the
time, so I thought I would put something in that I had written. If you read
my post, you would see that I THANKED her for what she wrote. In my
original post, I asked people to feel free to blow me up.
Even in the line you quote, I said what she replied made sense. So I fail
to see how you can say I "can't stand the heat of honest criticism".
BTW, thank you, as well, for your critique! I've never read my work through
someone else's eyes. Now I have, and you're right...it's rotten.
Like I said, "back to the drawing board".
Regards,
Jason
P.S.: There you go with that "weenie" comment again. Is there something
you're not telling us?
Ejucaided Redneck <briarh...@yall.com> wrote in message
news:7mli89$kve$1...@dtbsx.databasix.com...
> Jason Green wrote:
> >
> >What you lack in civility you make up for in sense... I realize you are
trying to insult me, but you make good points.
> >
>
Joyseymour
>Sunlight scintillated softly, like music, off the crystal goblet.
Well, Jason, I wasn't sure I wanted to read any more after the first sentence.
I don't like it. The first sentence that is.
(snip)
All around, the rich and powerful of the
>kingdom laughed and talked as quiet schemes formed in their heads.
Is this written in what's it called, third person omniscient? Otherwise, there
is no way the narrator would know this. POV, right?
(snip)
Tolian reflected upon how King Shaynek had rode at
>the forefront of his army at the Battle of Linthis five years ago, wading
>through the ranks of opposing knights until he stood face to face with King
>Moyris of the Anesians.
First, had ridden. Second, if he was riding how could he be wading?
(snip)
His black velvet shirt strained mightily as
>his arms worked to clench his fists into two steel balls.
How'd he do that?
He brushed the
>long blond hair, free from its warrior's tale for this occasion only, away
>from his eyes.
I don't understand this, what do you mean by tale? Or do you mean tail?
(snip)
>--
>Jason C. Green
>j...@t2000llc.yourattitude.com
>
Well, I don't normally do fantasy. This reads very much like a fantasy should,
right? Very much the style. The names and so forth, all very typical. It
seems like a decent start to me. I don't think it's as bad as certain other
posters have said, but I do think it needs some work. Think about what you can
do to make it more original, less typical.
joy
The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot,
without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts.
C.S. Lewis
Jason Green
news:19990715191544...@ng-cn1.aol.com...
> Jason Green wrote:
>
> >Sunlight scintillated softly, like music, off the crystal goblet.
>
sentence.
> I don't like it. The first sentence that is.
Thanks. Nobody did. I'm working on it as we speak, er... type.
> (snip)
>
> All around, the rich and powerful of the
> >kingdom laughed and talked as quiet schemes formed in their heads.
>
> Is this written in what's it called, third person omniscient? Otherwise,
there
> is no way the narrator would know this. POV, right?
I was trying to convey Tolian's dislike of the nobles. It's not 3rd person
omniscient (even if that's not what it's called, I know what you mean).
It's more that Tolian is seeing it that way, as if they are all
disingenuous. Working on that, too.
> (snip)
>
> Tolian reflected upon how King Shaynek had rode at
> >the forefront of his army at the Battle of Linthis five years ago, wading
> >through the ranks of opposing knights until he stood face to face with
King
> >Moyris of the Anesians.
>
> First, had ridden. Second, if he was riding how could he be wading?
Not sure. I was trying to make it sounds as if he fought his way through
the ranks. Maybe I should have just written that!
> (snip)
>
> His black velvet shirt strained mightily as
> >his arms worked to clench his fists into two steel balls.
>
> How'd he do that?
Magic, of course! Not really. Need a better simile.
>
> He brushed the
> >long blond hair, free from its warrior's tale for this occasion only,
away
> >from his eyes.
>
> I don't understand this, what do you mean by tale? Or do you mean tail?
> (snip)
I meant tail. Spell checker doesn't always save me!
>
>
> >--
> >Jason C. Green
> >j...@t2000llc.yourattitude.com
> >
>
> Well, I don't normally do fantasy. This reads very much like a fantasy
should,
> right? Very much the style. The names and so forth, all very typical.
It
> seems like a decent start to me. I don't think it's as bad as certain
other
> posters have said, but I do think it needs some work. Think about what
you can
> do to make it more original, less typical.
Thanks Joy! I think one of the biggest challenges for something like this
is to make it original, because pretty much all fantasy reads very similar.
But I will definitely be working at it.
Thanks again,
-Jason
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> It's frustrating, ER (can I call you ER?), because the first thing I did
> when I came in here was to ask for some guidelines, or an FAQ or something.
> Everybody said, "Hey! Don't worry about it! Just pop in and say whatever
> you want!"
I dunno... Used to be somebody --WCG I think-- posted a FAQ every week
or so that mentioned critiques being something this group was not about,
and suggesting alt.skunks, or rec.arts.prose as an alternative. I don't
know if she still posts it or not. I'd gotten so used to seeing the
post I maybe hadn't noticed its absence.
I do know in at least a couple threads in the past oh, eight or ten days
the "no critiques" policy was mentioned.
>
> Even in the line you quote, I said what she replied made sense. So I fail
> to see how you can say I "can't stand the heat of honest criticism".
It was because you described it as uncivil. And I ain't sure there's a
way to say to someone "Boy is this _bad_", and yet be both drawing-room
polite and effective.
>
> BTW, thank you, as well, for your critique! I've never read my work through
> someone else's eyes. Now I have, and you're right...it's rotten.
For the record, you're not as thin-skinned as first appeared, and I can
respect that.
An old fart digression:
I'm the product of one of those university "writing programs," which I
do _not_, as a matter of fact, recommend to _anyone_. After college I
didn't write a word, apart from lengthy letters to sundry friends for
years and years... But I had a helluva time with the course work back
then, and did have some fine teachers.
I had always, from elementary through high school, and even during my
first Navy hitch, caught enthusiastic comments from acquaintances about
my writing. I was the kid whose papers were read out loud as class
examples, and my first "writing for pay" consisted of typing letters
home (dollar a page) for other sailors too busy sampling the carnal
attractions of various ports of call to sit down and dash off a couple
pages to the little wiff back home about all the museums and ratty old
castles and Shinto shrines and I dunno what all said sailor was
visiting.
I mean, I _knew_ I was a writer.
First thing I ever handed in to a college level instructor over thirty
years ago was returned to me in a unique sort of fashion: he wadded it
up, threw it at me from his desk and growled, "Don't ever hand me
anything that bad again."
And I didn't...
Later when I was allowed into graduate level workshops rather than
confined to regular classes, the rules were simple and few:
1. Bring your very _best_ work for critiques; don't waste others' time
on stuff you haven't bothered to rewrite and edit and rewrite and edit
and rewrite ad infinitum ad nauseam.
2. Say nothing in defense of your work. It's a critique and you're
there to listen.
3. Accept praise or damnation with equal --and silent-- grace.
4. When critiquing someone else's work, be honest. If there's
something good about it, note it. If not, note that as well.
Looking back on it, to days when I was madly --and ever so badly--
imitating Hemingway and Wolfe and <shudder> Fitzgerald, the best crits I
ever sat through were the roughest.
Them's still my rules for critiques...
Years later, when I'd commenced trying to write again, I sat in on a
writer's group in New Orleans where, before reading his or her stuff, it
was expected the writer would specify whether "warm fuzzies" or "hard
criticism" were wanted.
I never went back. Seemed to me then, and seems to me now, unwarranted
warm fucking fuzzies" aren't going to do any writer any good. Honesty
might, though.
>
> Like I said, "back to the drawing board".
Best writing advice I ever saw was by Stephen King, in his book of
essays about horror fiction. He said "Anyone who writes two hours a day
for ten years will become a pretty good writer."
Good luck.
Jason Green
> Jason Green wrote:
> >
> > It's frustrating, ER (can I call you ER?), because the first thing I did
> > when I came in here was to ask for some guidelines, or an FAQ or
something.
> > Everybody said, "Hey! Don't worry about it! Just pop in and say
whatever
> > you want!"
>
> I dunno... Used to be somebody --WCG I think-- posted a FAQ every week
> or so that mentioned critiques being something this group was not about,
> and suggesting alt.skunks, or rec.arts.prose as an alternative. I don't
> know if she still posts it or not. I'd gotten so used to seeing the
> post I maybe hadn't noticed its absence.
No FAQ anymore, AFAIK. As far as the "no crit" posts, well...let's just say
I don't have the time to read everything in here, although the last few days
have been a little slow. I'll keep it in mind, though.
> >
> > Even in the line you quote, I said what she replied made sense. So I
fail
> > to see how you can say I "can't stand the heat of honest criticism".
>
> It was because you described it as uncivil. And I ain't sure there's a
> way to say to someone "Boy is this _bad_", and yet be both drawing-room
> polite and effective.
You're right, I asked for it, shoulda just taken it.
> > BTW, thank you, as well, for your critique! I've never read my work
through
> > someone else's eyes. Now I have, and you're right...it's rotten.
>
> For the record, you're not as thin-skinned as first appeared, and I can
> respect that.
Thanks.
[nice digression snipped]
>
> 1. Bring your very _best_ work for critiques; don't waste others' time
> on stuff you haven't bothered to rewrite and edit and rewrite and edit
> and rewrite ad infinitum ad nauseam.
I agree. I post from work, so I don't have a lot of material here that I
have written. You definitely didn't get my best today (I hope!), but I
thought it was a little better than it apparently is.
>
> 2. Say nothing in defense of your work. It's a critique and you're
> there to listen.
:: ::
>
> 3. Accept praise or damnation with equal --and silent-- grace.
:: ::
>
> 4. When critiquing someone else's work, be honest. If there's
> something good about it, note it. If not, note that as well.
>
[snip]
>
> Them's still my rules for critiques...
And good ones, too. That is all the FAQ I need.
>
[snip]
>
> I never went back. Seemed to me then, and seems to me now, unwarranted
> warm fucking fuzzies" aren't going to do any writer any good. Honesty
> might, though.
Honesty works every time, especially in criticism.
> >
> > Like I said, "back to the drawing board".
>
> Best writing advice I ever saw was by Stephen King, in his book of
> essays about horror fiction. He said "Anyone who writes two hours a day
> for ten years will become a pretty good writer."
>
> Good luck.
Thanks. I'll be back, but maybe next time I'll post the story on my website
and tell you where it's at instead.
-Jason
p.s. I liked "Cut a Lizard" Really good stuff.
Ejucaided Redneck
>
<lots of snippage>
> p.s. I liked "Cut a Lizard" Really good stuff.
Thanks.
I think that was my second published piece, the stuff I got into print
as a collegiate excepted. Sadly, "Thin Ice," the quarterly where it
appeared, dissolved along with its editor's marriage.
Wonder how many other well paid husbands are the unknowing mainstay of
"little" magazines?
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> Ejucaided Redneck wrote:
>
> >I dunno... Used to be somebody --WCG I think-- posted a FAQ every week
> >or so that mentioned critiques being something this group was not about,
> >and suggesting alt.skunks, or rec.arts.prose as an alternative. I don't
> >know if she still posts it or not. I'd gotten so used to seeing the
> >post I maybe hadn't noticed its absence.
>
> say that in the time I've been here, (lurking since January) I have never seen
> an FAQ. I think you may be confusing us with misc.writing. Wendy is the keeper
> of the FAQ over there.
I may be wrong --sounds like I probably am-- but I've been in and out of
this group for a couple years at least, mostly as a lurker looking for
writing assignments... (They _do_ show up though rarely: one time a
semi-literate poster came looking for someone to write "erotica" for a
website. I dunno how many people wrote him back, though he got lots of
nastygrams written to him within aw. Turned out he was good for fifteen
cents a word for a time...) Seems to me I remember a time crits weren't
done here, but if I'm wrong or the policy changed, I apologize for
misunderstanding and/or misrepresenting the situation.
>
> >I'm the product of one of those university "writing programs," which I
> >do _not_, as a matter of fact, recommend to _anyone_.
>
> Hey, I resemble that remark!
> I have a degree in writing. Well, actually it's a degree in English with a
> writing option. I loved the program, but I don't think it was just my degree
> that got me where I am, (which by the way is basically nowhere), I was actually
> a published writer before I went to college.
>
I didn't know this until years later, but I was in the first batch of
undergrads selected for a spanking new writing program at Purdue U, back
in ‘67. A dozen or so began, and probably half of us finished. I
suspect the saving grace of the program was the professors, most of them
sporting brand new PhDs and not at all sure what one did to "teach
writing" sort of felt their way through the process with their
students.
Years later, when I had Uncle Sugar's Steel Yachting and Carousing Club
(aka the Navy) paying for it I was in two different M.F.A. programs,
neither of which I finished. I found a world of changes, and after
talking to a few undergrads at both the institutions in question, I
found myself thinking I'd lucked out by being in the program I was in
when I was in it.
In that old undergrad program, which was started when there were almost
no such undergrad level courses offered, we were encouraged to write any
and everything we cared to. For instance, several of us were interested
in "genre" writing, which was fine with the faculty.
Twenty years later, seemed like every school with an English Department
had a writing program. In that first M.F.A. program I always had the
feeling I'd torpedoed myself when I casually mentioned I was supporting
my writing habit by selling "erotica" to the men's mags. Didn't matter
I was paying for computers and postage and printers and all the rest of
it with checks from Larry Flynt. Didn't matter afterward what I wrote,
the professors hated it, and I got labeled a "pornographer" pretty
quick.
In both that program and the next, there seemed to be a "right" way to
write fiction, and if students weren't emulating, on some level or
other, Dubus and Carver and Percy and Welty et al, it was strongly
suggested they were doing it "wrong." Stories just _had_ to be at least
4,500 words long, and the open ended literary model was stressed. And
students were most definitely --albeit subtly-- punished if they didn't
follow that model.
True story: I did two stories about the same couple of hillbilly
sailors, one of them set in a bar, the other at sea, that one professor
refused to accept as meeting workshop standards until they were both
published in a dime-a-word east cost slick. That same professor loathed
it when I carried in pieces set in Appalachia, which is what I wanted to
write about, what I _had_ to write about.
Back when nobody knew what they were doing we were encouraged to find a
voice that was as uniquely "ours" as we were then capable of making it.
As I recall, one of the most damning crits given in those earlier
workshops was to tell a fellow writer "That reads just like _________,"
no matter whose name fit in the blank. Two decades down the road
students were being taught to sound like whatever writers that were "in"
at the time.
I dunno... Maybe I was just in the two worst M.F.A. programs in the
country. But it seems to me there are too damn many writing programs
out there, most cranking out, with certain exceptions, people fit only
to go off and a) write for a few lit quarterlies an b) teach others to
do the same.
If I were advising some young person about being serious as regards
writing, I'd direct them away from writing programs per se, would
suggesta liberal arts education as an English or Philosophy major, with
a few writing courses thrown in. I'd tell them to read as widely as
they could.
And to write two hours a day for ten years.
‘Course, that's just me...
Beakerman
> danced and cascaded, framing shadows on the tapestry behind the banquet
> table. All around, the rich and powerful
> party, but underneath it all alliances were formed and enemies made.
> Exactly the kind of party Tolian Vandermeer hated, exactly the kind in which
> he always found himself entanlged. But a knight (even a simple knight, of
> which he thought himself) wisely accepted the invitations of his king. Wisdom
> was tiring. He lifted the goblet again to his lips, wary of secret
> ingredients not requested--but anything to avoid the empty bubble of
> conversation that threatened to swallow him.
> On his left sat Mikan Talldraught, Master of the Armorers Guild. Despite
> advancing age he was still a powerful man, proof that his was a labor of
> passion. Even out the corner of his eye Tolian could perceive the scars and
> burns of the hands of a master smith, the thick fingers more suited to tongs
> and hammers than the fine silver they now wielded to slice thick hunks of
> mutton. Mikan was one of the few at the table that Tolian knew
> personally, often visiting his smithy for new armor or to repair his old. He
> felt a pang
> of sadness. Mikan had lost his only son in the War of the Light five years
> hence. The loss had changed him.... [changed how?]... Tolian thought
> ruefully. No empty bubbles would ever come from him.
> To Tolian's right sat a different creature altogether. Loysan Martoch was
> cunning and, in Tolian's appraisal, plainly evil. Loysan was the King's half
> brother. Though scorned by the royal family he had nonetheless forged enough
> support with the courtiers--foxes can indeed form packs, at least here--that
> the king had no choice but to recognize him. Hoping to get him out from under
> his feet and to appease him at the same time, the King granted Loysan a duchy
> in Rastem, a distant tip of the kingdom far to the south. This proved a
> mistake. The once peaceful Rastem had been attacked last year by the Island
> kingdom of Ipsil. Rastem, thinking quickly, had managed to turn himself
> into the protector of the kingdom......
I'd love to to (re)write more, but---is Rastem a geographical region, or a
person?
Not bad! Not bad at all as a story portion once it's trimmed and cleaned up.
Simplify your sentence structure and at the same time install more colorful
words and metaphors. This is the Age of Chivalry, you know. Tolian seems a
reluctant cynic, so infuse cynicism. Beware strings of words that begin with
the same letter or sound ("Sunlight scintillated softly--") and mixed metaphors
("--like music..." How is light like music? Only if you're in Haight-Ashbury
in 1969.)
I might read the rest and fiddle with it tomorrow, if you don't mind. .
Joyseymour
>Jason Green wrote:
>>
>> It's frustrating, ER (can I call you ER?), because the first thing I did
>> when I came in here was to ask for some guidelines, or an FAQ or something.
>> Everybody said, "Hey! Don't worry about it! Just pop in and say whatever
>> you want!"
>
>I dunno... Used to be somebody --WCG I think-- posted a FAQ every week
>or so that mentioned critiques being something this group was not about,
>and suggesting alt.skunks, or rec.arts.prose as an alternative. I don't
>know if she still posts it or not. I'd gotten so used to seeing the
>post I maybe hadn't noticed its absence.
Not in this group. I don't presume to speak for the group at large, but I can
say that in the time I've been here, (lurking since January) I have never seen
an FAQ. I think you may be confusing us with misc.writing. Wendy is the keeper
of the FAQ over there.
>
>I do know in at least a couple threads in the past oh, eight or ten days
>the "no critiques" policy was mentioned.
>>
Not here. Not that I noticed. Lots of people post work for critique here.
It's been that way since I've been here. Granted, that's not very long, in the
grand scheme of things, but still, I've outlasted quite a few others.
I do know that misc.writing has a definite no critiques policy. Was Jason's
piece cross posted there? AOL doesn't allow cross posting so I don't usually
notice.
>I'm the product of one of those university "writing programs," which I
>do _not_, as a matter of fact, recommend to _anyone_.
Hey, I resemble that remark!
I have a degree in writing. Well, actually it's a degree in English with a
writing option. I loved the program, but I don't think it was just my degree
that got me where I am, (which by the way is basically nowhere), I was actually
a published writer before I went to college.
>1. Bring your very _best_ work for critiques; don't waste others' time
>on stuff you haven't bothered to rewrite and edit and rewrite and edit
>and rewrite ad infinitum ad nauseam.
>
>2. Say nothing in defense of your work. It's a critique and you're
>there to listen.
>
>3. Accept praise or damnation with equal --and silent-- grace.
>
>4. When critiquing someone else's work, be honest. If there's
>something good about it, note it. If not, note that as well.
Good rules.
Really, I can't say this for anyone else, but I don't mind seeing pieces posted
for critique here. I learn a lot picking apart other people's work. It has
improved my writing tremendously.
And remember - we don't need no stinking FAQ.
Neale Talbot
Beakerman wrote:
> Beware strings of words that begin with
> the same letter or sound ("Sunlight scintillated softly--")
>
<huge snip's cousin>
Why? What's so wrong about alliteration? It's common enough in poetry, why not prose
as well?
-Neale
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> <huge snip>
>
> Beakerman wrote:
>
> > Beware strings of words that begin with
> > the same letter or sound ("Sunlight scintillated softly--")
> >
>
>
> Why? What's so wrong about alliteration? It's common enough in poetry, why not prose
> as well?
>
for wonderful examples of it.
But it ain't working in _this_ piece.
paghat
<nta...@comtech.com.au> wrote:
> <huge snip>
>
> Beakerman wrote:
>
> > Beware strings of words that begin with
> > the same letter or sound ("Sunlight scintillated softly--")
> >
>
> <huge snip's cousin>
>
> Why? What's so wrong about alliteration? It's common enough in poetry,
why not prose
> as well?
>
> -Neale
It just SOUNDS funny.
But the subject matter was so juvenile -- Magic card-deck roll-playing
sort of nonsense -- that alliteration may have been apropos. If you WANT a
story to sound ridiculous, writing tongue-twisters into the body o the
text helps.
-paghat
paghat
> Neale Talbot wrote:
> >
> > <huge snip>
> >
> > Beakerman wrote:
> >
> > > Beware strings of words that begin with
> > > the same letter or sound ("Sunlight scintillated softly--")
> > >
> >
> > <huge snip's cousin>
> >
> > Why? What's so wrong about alliteration? It's common enough in poetry,
why not prose
> > as well?
> >
> Alliteraton can do marvelous things in prose. Read Faulkner or Wolfe
> for wonderful examples of it.
>
> But it ain't working in _this_ piece.
Also if you can read Hebrew the Bible is filled with alliteration very
poetic & punning in a manner that is profound rather than comical. But
some things don't transfer to English with the same beauty. A parallel is
how in Japanese punning sounds poetic & sometimes the last word of a line
will be used with a different meaning (& without repeating it) as first
linking word of the next sentence. In English it sounds ridiculous & such
poems cannot be translated into anything resembling their original form.
By and large any story that has people Tramping Through The Tulips
Tralala-ing had better be intentionally cartoony. That Faulkner had the
audacity to emulate biblical prose & themes -- & the skill to get away
with it -- & the dark imagination to fulfill the method -- does not mean
that juvenile sword & sorcery will be easier to take seriously with
internal rhyming, alliteration, or punning. The fact that that fragment of
fantasy prose was chockful of subjunctive tension made it comical enough
when read literally.
-paghat
Simon Reid
>Wow. Thanks for your comments, Paghat. What you lack in civility you make
>up for in sense. I'm not in any writing groups other than this one, so you
>are the first person to read this. I realize you are trying to insult me,
>but you make good points.
I have to agree that some of the sentences do not work particularly well
and the phrasing of them could lead to some misconceptions - but as you
mentioned, the novel is 'nowhere near finished', and obviously on
completion you would edit the original draft to rephrase these muddled
sentences etc.
Overall, it's very promising - your descriptive skills are impressive
and the details you include keep it interesting, whilst not being
over-pretentious and ruining the flow of the passage with a boring flood
of adjectives, as can often happen in an attempt to be detailed.
If you receive a lot of negative comments, I would still urge you to
complete the novel as your style of writing is very good, if requiring
some refinement in parts.
The first poster in reply to your story called it 'abysmal', but I would
take this as constructive criticism - when you edit, examine sentence
structure and wording carefully...
Pamela Mitchell
joyse...@aol.com (Joyseymour) wrote:
> Not in this group. I don't presume to speak for the group at large, but I can
> say that in the time I've been here, (lurking since January) I have never seen
> an FAQ. I think you may be confusing us with misc.writing. Wendy is the
keeper
> of the FAQ over there.
We don't have an FAQ here because we scoff at them. I do have something
that's not an FAQ that I send to people who are new via e-mail. Malcolm was
supposed to be watching to door for me, but he's buggered off now, so if I
missed you, drop me a note and I'll send it to you.
--
Pamela Mitchell
my writing: http://pamelam.cjb.net
Prince Richard Kaminski
Pamela Mitchell wrote:
> We don't have an FAQ here because we scoff at them. I do have something
> that's not an FAQ that I send to people who are new via e-mail. Malcolm was
> supposed to be watching to door for me, but he's buggered off now, so if I
> missed you, drop me a note and I'll send it to you.
I never had one of those FAQs that is not a FAQ. *sniff*
Rhiannon
>Wow. Thanks for your comments, Paghat. What you lack in civility you make
>up for in sense. I'm not in any writing groups other than this one, so you
>are the first person to read this. I realize you are trying to insult me,
>but you make good points.
>
>--
>Jason C. Green
Civility and insult have no bearing on this whatsoever. You asked for a
critique and she offered one. If there is one important rule for a writer to
learn early on it is to separate themselves as people from their works as a
writer. Criticism of your story in an effort to help you write better is not a
reflection on you personally.
Rhiannon
Jason Green
Rhiannon <rhia...@idirect.com> wrote in message
news:378f...@nemo.idirect.com...
Civility, in my opinion, has a bearing on everything. Just because you are
an expert does not give you the right to be rude to amateurs. There are
things that I am better at than you. If you were to attempt one of those
things, would it then be ok for me to be uncivil to you simply because you
tried to do it?
But I don't want you to think I can't take criticism, which is absolutely
not the case. I didn't take it personally at all. Look at what I
wrote-"What you lack in civility you make up for in sense." In other words,
she was rude, but she was correct.
Besides, I thanked Paghat for her honesty, if not her kindness (civility).
She was harsh, but that's fine.
You don't have to insult someone to get your point across, dipshit. (that
was a joke, BTW)
I agree with what you said about separating yourself from your writing. But
if you read the whole post, I think it was implied that I had already done
that.
Regards,
Jason
>
> Rhiannon
>
Rhiannon
>I play a lot of basketball. When I was first learning, I reached a certain
>point, and then couldn't get any better. At the time, I was going to school
>at Washington State, and they have this huge indoor gym. I started playing
>basketball there, and the first day, I was laughed off the court. But I
>kept coming back. Only when I started playing with people who were much
>better than I am did I begin to get better.
>
>Hopefully, that's what will happen here.
This is one of the most sensible responses I have read in here to date. It
takes a person of great character to appreciate that playing with more
experienced and skilled people is an opportunity to learn and improve, rather
than a threat. You have a wonderful attitude. Hopefully it will rub off on the
group, myself included. Thanks.
Rhiannon
Jason Green
this thread, so that you don't form your entire opinion of me based on my
response to Paghat. I really am in here to improve my vraft. Actually, I'm
in here to improve my Craft, as my vraft seems to be working just fine right
now.
Anyway...if I didn't want to get better, I wouldn't be here. I have read
some great writing in here already, and some of the advice/critiques I have
read are genuinely helpful, no matter how they are put.
-Jason
> Rhiannon
>
Rhiannon
>Civility, in my opinion, has a bearing on everything. Just because you are
>an expert does not give you the right to be rude to amateurs. There are
>things that I am better at than you. If you were to attempt one of those
>things, would it then be ok for me to be uncivil to you simply because you
>tried to do it?
Hold on...before more is implied than is there, please allow me to clarify...I
did not say I was an expert, in fact, it is my personal belief that no one is
ever an expert all of the time. Even the published, successful, financially
secure writer, must never become so comfortable that he fails to leave himself
open to lifelong learning. I agree that no one has the right to be rude to
anyone, never mind amateurs, and in choosing to do so, should be prepared to
take responsibility for their words and actions, however, I did not perceive her
comments as rude, hence the difference of opinion.
>But if you read the whole post, I think it was implied that I had already done
that.
I did read the whole post. Why on earth wouldn't I?
Rhiannon
Prince Richard Kaminski
Rhiannon wrote:
> I agree that no one has the right to be rude to
> anyone
This is a joke, right?
Jason Green
>
> >Civility, in my opinion, has a bearing on everything. Just because you
are
> >an expert does not give you the right to be rude to amateurs. There are
> >things that I am better at than you. If you were to attempt one of those
> >things, would it then be ok for me to be uncivil to you simply because
you
> >tried to do it?
>
>
> Hold on...before more is implied than is there, please allow me to
clarify...I
> did not say I was an expert, in fact, it is my personal belief that no one
is
> ever an expert all of the time. Even the published, successful,
financially
> secure writer, must never become so comfortable that he fails to leave
himself
to
> anyone, never mind amateurs, and in choosing to do so, should be prepared
to
> take responsibility for their words and actions, however, I did not
perceive her
> comments as rude, hence the difference of opinion.
I think we are in agreement on this one. I just thought that the last thing
Paghat wrote, about it being tragic if the piece was written by an adult,
was...not the nicest thing to say, as I am an adult. But we seem to
basically agree here.
>
> >But if you read the whole post, I think it was implied that I had already
done
> that.
>
>
> I did read the whole post. Why on earth wouldn't I?
I take it back. We pretty much cleared up what the misunderstanding was.
-Jason
>
> Rhiannon
>
>
Beakerman
story-telling, unless the teller is Sylvester the cat. ("Thuffering thuccotash!")
Alliteration punishes the reader or listener. It sounds dopey. All good writers avoid
it by instinct. It works, as you said, in poetry (and only in certain ways--Dr. Suess
and Shel Silverstein come to mind) wherein the words making up the alliteration or the
alliteration itself is the object of the art. Hemingway would not have let himself be
caught dead within 50 feet of alliterated prose.
Neale Talbot wrote:
> <huge snip>
>
> Beakerman wrote:
>
> > Beware strings of words that begin with
> > the same letter or sound ("Sunlight scintillated softly--")
> >
>
> <huge snip's cousin>
>
> Why? What's so wrong about alliteration? It's common enough in poetry, why not prose
> as well?
>
> -Neale
Jason Green
Prince Richard Kaminski <richard....@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:378FB7AF...@lineone.net...
>
>
> Rhiannon wrote:
>
> > I agree that no one has the right to be rude to
>
> This is a joke, right?
>
While in the US we have the right to act however we feel, and rudeness is
definitely not forbidden by the Constitution or any other subsequent legal
document, I feel that the world would be a far better place if people
abstained from being rude towards one another.
Happy?
-Jason
Beakerman
Ejucaided Redneck wrote:
> Alliteraton can do marvelous things in prose. Read Faulkner or Wolfe for wonderful
> examples of it.
Ah, a good observation. It's been awhile since I've read any Faulkner. Wolfe... Tom
Wolfe or Thomas Wolfe?
I guess in the right context, alliteration works, but you had better know what you're
doing. Beginner's should avoid it.
>
> But it ain't working in _this_ piece.
>
Rhiannon
>Rhiannon <rhia...@idirect.com> wrote in message
>>This is one of the most sensible responses I have read in here to date.
>>It takes a person of great character to appreciate that playing with more
>>experienced and skilled people is an opportunity to learn and improve,
>rather than a threat. You have a wonderful attitude. Hopefully it will rub
off
>on the group, myself included. Thanks.
>It really is my pleasure. I'm glad that you read the rest of the posts in
>this thread, so that you don't form your entire opinion of me based on my
>response to Paghat.
When I read a thread, I always read all of them, and for this very reason, so I
know I have all necessary information, and have looked at it from all angles. I
rarely base an opinion on just one post or one response. For the sake of
clarification...I do not limit myself to one train of thought either, I can
agree with someone on Monday, and disagree with that same person on Thursday,
depending on the issue at hand, but in no way does the change of opinion reflect
on how I feel about the person.
Rhiannon
Thinggfish
>learn early on it is to separate themselves as people from their works as a
>writer.
I would have thought that a good rule to learn early on is to match singulars
and plurals, but what do I know. Not much evidently
Beakerman
Beakerman wrote:
> I guess in the right context, alliteration works, but you had better know what you're
> doing. Beginner's should avoid it.
"Beginner's." ..... Jeez, I can't believe I did that. I meant "Beginners."
Rhiannon
>
>Rhiannon wrote:
>
>> I agree that no one has the right to be rude to
>> anyone
>
>This is a joke, right?
Hold on...tap tap...something wrong with my ears...could be an infection...or
something far more serious...don't understand it though...everytime you talk all
I can hear is bullshit.
Rhiannon
Michael Kelly
> Prince Richard Kaminski <richard....@lineone.net> wrote in message
> news:378FB7AF...@lineone.net...
> >
> >
> > Rhiannon wrote:
> >
> > > I agree that no one has the right to be rude to
> > > anyone
> >
> > This is a joke, right?
> >
> Let me rephrase that sentence for you, PRK.
>
> While in the US we have the right to act however we feel, and rudeness is
> definitely not forbidden by the Constitution or any other subsequent legal
> document, I feel that the world would be a far better place if people
> abstained from being rude towards one another.
>
> Happy?
>
> -Jason
I agree with that, in fact I will go so far as to state that we all have the
right to say or do anything, legal or illegal, as long as we are willing to
be responsible for our actions. They saying that 'an armed society is a
polite society' has a meaning. If we do not voluntarily police our own
actions other certainly will. Being rude without just cause is a breach of
the bond we must live by if we wish to prosper as a society.
Michael Kelly, Webmaster
Midnight Community - A place made for friends!
http://www.exchangenet.net/midnight
mik...@exchangenet.net ICQ # 38517483
Rhiannon
>What are you talking about? Was I addressing you? I thought I was addressing
>the poster who hides her real identity by calling herself "Rhiannon".
>She
>said, "I agree that no one has the right to be rude to anyone". This is a
>person who calls me a "fucking idiot" and whose friends are constantly calling
>me "fucking prick" and "prick". And she objected when I called her a
>hypocrite.
Do you have any idea whatsoever what a complete ass you make of yourself when
post such things?
My real identity, name, address, and phone number can be found on my web page,
and has been there since 1996, but it would require you to have enough brain
cells and fine motor skills to click and read.
As for the rest of this post, reasoning with you is an exercise in futility.
You can beat this dead horse from now until next Thursday and it ain't gonna get
any deader. The only purpose it serves at this point, is to waste my time.
Rhiannon
Tab One
Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
>
> Jason Green wrote:
>
> > Prince Richard Kaminski <richard....@lineone.net> wrote in message
> > news:378FB7AF...@lineone.net...
> > >
> > >
> > > Rhiannon wrote:
> > >
> > > > I agree that no one has the right to be rude to
> > > > anyone
> > >
> > > This is a joke, right?
> > >
> > Let me rephrase that sentence for you, PRK.
> >
> > While in the US we have the right to act however we feel, and rudeness is
> > definitely not forbidden by the Constitution or any other subsequent legal
> > document, I feel that the world would be a far better place if people
> > abstained from being rude towards one another.
> >
> > Happy?
>
> What are you talking about? Was I addressing you? I thought I was addressing
> the poster who hides her real identity by calling herself "Rhiannon". She
> said, "I agree that no one has the right to be rude to anyone". This is a
> person who calls me a "fucking idiot" and whose friends are constantly calling
> me "fucking prick" and "prick". And she objected when I called her a
> hypocrite.
But those are fair comment descriptions of the way you act. Also, it is
good that you notice Rhiannon has friends. Do you?
Tab One
Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
>
> Rhiannon wrote:
>
> > Prince Richard Kaminski wrote in message <378FB7AF...@lineone.net>...
> > >
> > >Rhiannon wrote:
> > >
> > >> I agree that no one has the right to be rude to
> > >> anyone
> > >
> > >This is a joke, right?
> >
> > Hold on...tap tap...something wrong with my ears...could be an infection...or
> > something far more serious...don't understand it though...everytime you talk all
> > I can hear is bullshit.
>
> And everytime you open your wordhole, all I can hear are the witless wailings of a
> warty Welsh witch.
So, you have experience in conversing with a "warty Welsh witch" do
you. Many in London are there? Few amongst your 'friends' are there?
You love conflict don't you.
Tab One
Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
>
> Tab One wrote:
>
> > You love conflict don't you.
>
> This is another joke coming from someone who is following up my every post tonight
> calling me a "prick".
I am hoping you will eventually get the message. Or am I to meekly
ignore the absolute crap that you post here? Of course I am going to
follow you around, I need a good laugh, been a quiet week.
Why did you make two posts out of one?
Tab One
Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
>
>
> >
> > > What are you talking about? Was I addressing you? I thought I was addressing
> > > the poster who hides her real identity by calling herself "Rhiannon". She
> > > said, "I agree that no one has the right to be rude to anyone". This is a
> > > person who calls me a "fucking idiot" and whose friends are constantly calling
> > > me "fucking prick" and "prick". And she objected when I called her a
> > > hypocrite.
> >
> > But those are fair comment descriptions of the way you act.
>
> But Rhiannon said it was wrong to insult people. So what should I believe, what
> Rhiannon says, or what Rhiannon does?
Tab One
> If you hate it as much as you pretend to, yes, you should ignore it, for the sake of
> your own mental health.
To too easy a target to ignore. Please do not worry about 'my' mental
health, for it is perfectly all right. I have had much more difficult
mind games than having to deal with you.
> > Of course I am going to
> > follow you around, I need a good laugh, been a quiet week.
>
> There you see, you find it entertaining, don't you.
What you do could hardly be called entertaining, for if it were, someone
would post after every stupid comment you make "Bravo! Well done PRK!"
But they don't do they. I care not what people say after my posts, as
'my' friends will attest.
> Now you see why I do what I do?
No, and the explanation you offer is more nonsense.
> It's to entertain the punters like your good self,
I am hardly a punter, as my internet connection does not cost me what it
costs people in the U.K.
> and the "kindest person in the world", the anonymous Rhiannon.
Ah, but she was kind to you, but you bit the extended hand, didn't you?
How many times do you have to be told she is hardly anonymous, when her
information is posted on her web site? Or is that too difficult for you
little mind to grasp?
Tab One
Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
>
> Tab One wrote:
>
> > And another thing, please do not credit me with your inane crap.
>
> Don't you understand what the >> and > signify, Officer Dibble? Please ask the "kindest
> person in the world", Rhiannon, for clarification.
Ignoring the condescending bull shit.
> >
> > Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > What are you talking about? Was I addressing you? I thought I was addressing
> > > > > the poster who hides her real identity by calling herself "Rhiannon". She
> > > > > said, "I agree that no one has the right to be rude to anyone". This is a
> > > > > person who calls me a "fucking idiot" and whose friends are constantly calling
> > > > > me "fucking prick" and "prick". And she objected when I called her a
> > > > > hypocrite.
Are you saying you did not post this?
Tab One
my return from locking up some bad guys.
Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
>
> Tab One wrote:
>
> > Why did you make two posts out of one?
>
> I didn't.
Michael Kelly
> You're goofy.
> -paghat
Thank you!!
When I consider all of the possible replies from you, that is so sweet it is
almost out of character.
Prince Richard Kaminski
Jason Green wrote:
> Prince Richard Kaminski <richard....@lineone.net> wrote in message
> news:378FB7AF...@lineone.net...
> >
> >
> > Rhiannon wrote:
> >
> > > I agree that no one has the right to be rude to
> > > anyone
> >
> > This is a joke, right?
> >
> Let me rephrase that sentence for you, PRK.
>
> While in the US we have the right to act however we feel, and rudeness is
> definitely not forbidden by the Constitution or any other subsequent legal
> document, I feel that the world would be a far better place if people
> abstained from being rude towards one another.
>
> Happy?
What are you talking about? Was I addressing you? I thought I was addressing
Prince Richard Kaminski
Rhiannon wrote:
> Prince Richard Kaminski wrote in message <378FB7AF...@lineone.net>...
> >
> >Rhiannon wrote:
> >
> >> I agree that no one has the right to be rude to
> >> anyone
> >
> >This is a joke, right?
>
Prince Richard Kaminski
Rhiannon wrote:
> Prince Richard Kaminski wrote in message <378FBA5D...@lineone.net>...
>
> >What are you talking about? Was I addressing you? I thought I was addressing
> >the poster who hides her real identity by calling herself "Rhiannon".
> >She
> >said, "I agree that no one has the right to be rude to anyone". This is a
> >person who calls me a "fucking idiot" and whose friends are constantly calling
> >me "fucking prick" and "prick". And she objected when I called her a
> >hypocrite.
>
> Do you have any idea whatsoever what a complete ass you make of yourself when
> post such things?
> My real identity, name, address, and phone number can be found on my web page,
> and has been there since 1996, but it would require you to have enough brain
> cells and fine motor skills to click and read.
Sorry, but seeing your crude chipmunk was enough Rhiannon for one lifetime for me.
>
>
> As for the rest of this post, reasoning with you is an exercise in futility.
> You can beat this dead horse from now until next Thursday and it ain't gonna get
> any deader. The only purpose it serves at this point, is to waste my time.
So don't be such a hypocrite then. Don't say it's wrong to insult people in such a
holier than thou manner, when you yourself have hurled around some of the most foul
insults I have ever read on Usenet, and so have your friends.
Prince Richard Kaminski
Tab One wrote:
>
> > What are you talking about? Was I addressing you? I thought I was addressing
> > the poster who hides her real identity by calling herself "Rhiannon". She
> > said, "I agree that no one has the right to be rude to anyone". This is a
> > person who calls me a "fucking idiot" and whose friends are constantly calling
> > me "fucking prick" and "prick". And she objected when I called her a
> > hypocrite.
>
> But those are fair comment descriptions of the way you act.
But Rhiannon said it was wrong to insult people. So what should I believe, what
Prince Richard Kaminski
Prince Richard Kaminski
Tab One wrote:
> And another thing, please do not credit me with your inane crap.
Don't you understand what the >> and > signify, Officer Dibble? Please ask the "kindest
person in the world", Rhiannon, for clarification.
Prince Richard Kaminski
Tab One wrote:
> I am hoping you will eventually get the message. Or am I to meekly
> ignore the absolute crap that you post here?
If you hate it as much as you pretend to, yes, you should ignore it, for the sake of
your own mental health.
> Of course I am going to
> follow you around, I need a good laugh, been a quiet week.
There you see, you find it entertaining, don't you. Now you see why I do what I do? It's
to entertain the punters like your good self, and the "kindest person in the world", the
anonymous Rhiannon.
Prince Richard Kaminski
Prince Richard Kaminski
Tab One wrote:
> Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
>
> > > > > > What are you talking about? Was I addressing you? I thought I was addressing
> > > > > > the poster who hides her real identity by calling herself "Rhiannon". She
> > > > > > said, "I agree that no one has the right to be rude to anyone". This is a
> > > > > > person who calls me a "fucking idiot" and whose friends are constantly calling
> > > > > > me "fucking prick" and "prick". And she objected when I called her a
> > > > > > hypocrite.
>
> Are you saying you did not post this?
>
I posted the above, yes. It had my name on it, didn't it? What problem do you have
understanding what I wrote and what I didn't write?
>
> > > > >
> > > > > But those are fair comment descriptions of the way you act.
I didn't write the above comment, that was you. Don't you even know what you have written
yourself?
Prince Richard Kaminski
Tab One wrote:
> > and the "kindest person in the world", the anonymous Rhiannon.
>
> Ah, but she was kind to you, but you bit the extended hand, didn't you?
Kind? By telling me to shut up and behave like some recalcitrant little boy, while the
people she happens to like, such as PB, are allowed to bicker, quarrel and insult people
without end? By telling me I am a "fucking idiot"? By rejecting my "peace overture" via
email? By encouraging people like you to savagely attack me on her behalf, using such foul
names as "prick" and "fucking prick"?
If that's kind to you, then I wouldn't like to meet her malicious twin sister. I suppose
she must be anonymous too.
Prince Richard Kaminski
Tab One wrote:
> Time for me to do some serious stuff now, so I will get back to you on
> my return from locking up some bad guys.
You do this stuff from WORK???? At the *taxpayer's expense* ??
WAINS?
paghat
> Jason Green wrote in message <7moaaf$692$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
>
> >Civility, in my opinion, has a bearing on everything. Just because you are
> >an expert does not give you the right to be rude to amateurs. There are
> >things that I am better at than you. If you were to attempt one of those
> >things, would it then be ok for me to be uncivil to you simply because you
> >tried to do it?
This evidently was addressed to me -- I didn't see the whole original post
as I've only been spot-reading this ng. But I have a belated reply.
If you catch me racing against some first-rate athletes, panting & lagging
behind, please do laugh your ass off, I won't mind. Because I wouldn't be
dumb enough to be doing it unless I knew it would be funny.
If you pay your moneys to see a classical guitarist in concert, & you get
a dyke in a leather jacket on a stage doing bits of "Stairway to Heaven"
all wrong, do start screaming & cussing & demanding your money back.
And if someone posts on UseNet or at their personal website evidence of a
delusion of having written a story, they have to take AT LEAST as much
risk as actual authors take when an actual book is issued -- of failing to
reach an indifferent public or being roundly thrashed by a critic. Being a
lousy amateur should get you a get-out-jail-free card??? If the greatest
living writers have to risk getting trounced, why should a beginner be
coddled? Out of pity? Wouldbe writers who swell with happiness when
patronized with a polite, secretly dismissive "that was very nice," never
do succeed. It's why most of those friendly little critique groups consist
entirely of eternally unpublishable writers.
-paghat the ratgirl
>
> Hold on...before more is implied than is there, please allow me to clarify...I
> did not say I was an expert, in fact, it is my personal belief that no one is
> ever an expert all of the time. Even the published, successful, financially
> secure writer, must never become so comfortable that he fails to leave himself
> open to lifelong learning. I agree that no one has the right to be rude to
> anyone, never mind amateurs, and in choosing to do so, should be prepared to
> take responsibility for their words and actions, however, I did not
perceive her
> comments as rude, hence the difference of opinion.
>
> >But if you read the whole post, I think it was implied that I had
already done
> that.
>
>
> I did read the whole post. Why on earth wouldn't I?
>
> Rhiannon
paghat
<j...@t2000llc.yourattitude.com> wrote:
> I just thought that the last thing
> Paghat wrote, about it being tragic if the piece was written by an adult,
> was...not the nicest thing to say, as I am an adult. But we seem to
> basically agree here.
I was glad to know you were an adult because I would actually feel kind of
bad were I to discovery I've just told some ten year old their feeble
attempt to write a story failed miserably to achieve any adult level of
interest, kind of like faulting a downs syndrome kid for having weird
eyes, it'd just be too nasty even for nasty ol' me.
On the other hand some small part of me hoped you WERE a kid because you
chose subject matter right out the most cliche-ridden role-playing card
deck game, which most wee lads outgrow by age sixteen.
So though it sounded mean (partly because like all my UseNet notes it was
hastily drafted, & partly because i AM mean) I didn't actually hear it as
all that cruel at the time -- I really meant, "But it's all forgiveable if
you're twelve" because that'd mean with maturity imagination & skill will
also increase. So my comment grew out of my fear that I just MIGHT be
stomping on some kid who may in a matter of months graduate from sword &
sorcery card games to books, then slowly absorb something of the craft of
writing over the five or eight years after that.
-paghat
paghat
> Prince Richard Kaminski wrote in message <378FB7AF...@lineone.net>...
> >
> >Rhiannon wrote:
> >
> >> I agree that no one has the right to be rude to
> >> anyone
> >
> >This is a joke, right?
>
>
> Hold on...tap tap...something wrong with my ears...could be an infection...or
> something far more serious...don't understand it though...everytime you
talk all
> I can hear is bullshit.
>
> Rhiannon
You're being rude. Clappity clappity. Now add some ideas to your
impoliteness & I'll give you a Paghat Award.
-paghat
paghat
<mik...@exchangenet.net> wrote:
> I agree with that, in fact I will go so far as to state that we all have the
> right to say or do anything, legal or illegal, as long as we are willing to
> be responsible for our actions. They saying that 'an armed society is a
> polite society' has a meaning. If we do not voluntarily police our own
> actions other certainly will. Being rude without just cause is a breach of
> the bond we must live by if we wish to prosper as a society.
>
> Michael Kelly, Webmaster
You're goofy.
-paghat
paghat
> Prince Richard Kaminski wrote in message <378FBA5D...@lineone.net>...
>
> >What are you talking about? Was I addressing you? I thought I was addressing
> >the poster who hides her real identity by calling herself "Rhiannon".
> >She
> >said, "I agree that no one has the right to be rude to anyone". This is a
> >person who calls me a "fucking idiot" and whose friends are constantly
calling
> >me "fucking prick" and "prick". And she objected when I called her a
> >hypocrite.
>
>
> Do you have any idea whatsoever what a complete ass you make of yourself when
> post such things?
> My real identity, name, address, and phone number can be found on my web page,
> and has been there since 1996, but it would require you to have enough brain
> cells and fine motor skills to click and read.
>
> As for the rest of this post, reasoning with you is an exercise in futility.
> You can beat this dead horse from now until next Thursday and it ain't
gonna get
> any deader. The only purpose it serves at this point, is to waste my time.
>
> Rhiannon
Wish I'd seen your url address, but I'm too lazy to ferret it out.
-paghat
Prince Richard Kaminski
paghat wrote to Rhiannon:
> Wish I'd seen your url address, but I'm too lazy to ferret it out.
Why? Do you have a penchant for crudely drawn chipmunks?
Rhiannon
>Wish I'd seen your url address, but I'm too lazy to ferret it out.
>-paghat
Be careful what you wish for...<g>
Http://web.idirect.com/~rhiannon
Rhiannon
Rhiannon
>But Rhiannon said it was wrong to insult people.
No I didn't, I SAID we do not have the *right* to insult people, but no mention
of it preventing us from doing so. We could have avoided this entire conflict
or at least solved this fairly quickly, had you told me at the start that
English is not your first language.
Rhiannon
Rhiannon
>There you see, you find it entertaining, don't you. Now you see why I do what I
do? It's
>to entertain the punters like your good self, and the "kindest person in the
world", the
>anonymous Rhiannon.
See. Thank you for making my point for me.
Rhiannon
Rhiannon
>
>Tab One wrote:
>
>> > and the "kindest person in the world", the anonymous Rhiannon.
>>
>
>Kind? By telling me to shut up and behave like some recalcitrant little boy,
while the
>people she happens to like, such as PB, are allowed to bicker, quarrel and
insult people
>without end? By telling me I am a "fucking idiot"? By rejecting my "peace
overture" via
>email? By encouraging people like you to savagely attack me on her behalf,
using such foul
>names as "prick" and "fucking prick"?
ROFL!!!!
Rhiannon
Rhiannon
>In article <378f...@nemo.idirect.com>, "Rhiannon" <rhia...@idirect.com>
wrote:
>> Hold on...tap tap...something wrong with my ears...could be an infection...or
>> something far more serious...don't understand it though...everytime you
>> talk all I can hear is bullshit.
>>
>> Rhiannon
>
>You're being rude. Clappity clappity. Now add some ideas to your
>impoliteness & I'll give you a Paghat Award.
>
>-paghat
Ahhh..yes but I said we did not have the right to be rude in the context that
Jason presented it. I did not say this prevented us from choosing to do so,
only that we should expect to face the music when we do.
Rhiannon
Rhiannon
>This evidently was addressed to me -- I didn't see the whole original post
>as I've only been spot-reading this ng. But I have a belated reply.
Actually no, Jason addressed it to me...:)
Rhiannon
Prince Richard Kaminski
Rhiannon wrote:
> Prince Richard Kaminski wrote in message <378FD2A0...@lineone.net>...
>
> >But Rhiannon said it was wrong to insult people.
>
> No I didn't, I SAID we do not have the *right* to insult people
Which clearly implies that it is wrong to do so. Don't play daft word games,
Rhiannon. It's very clear to the newsgroup exactly what you meant.
> , but no mention
> of it preventing us from doing so.
Nobody said it prevented anyone.
> We could have avoided this entire conflict
> or at least solved this fairly quickly, had you told me at the start that
> English is not your first language.
We could have avoided this entire conflict
or at least solved this fairly quickly, had you told me at the start that you were
barking mad.
Prince Richard Kaminski
Rhiannon wrote:
You can roll on the floor all you like (mind the chipmunk, though), but you know
that what I say is true. I wonder what this "kindness" is people are referring to
anyway. Is it, "Oh dear, poor old Richard is unpopular here, I think I'll talk to
him a bit just to make him less unhappy"? Is that the kind of "kindness" we were
experiencing? I don't think that is kindness at all, just patronising.
I don't think friends are nice to each other because they are "kind". Rather,
they enjoy each others' company, and have a mutually beneficial relationship.
"Kind" is where you see an injured bird in the street and take it home and nurse
it back to health. If that's how you see me, then you have a grave
misunderstanding of the general situation. It's not about "kindness", you see.
Now, I'd like to see Officer Dibble's comments on this one.
Prince Richard Kaminski
Rhiannon wrote:
> Prince Richard Kaminski wrote in message <378FD8A3...@lineone.net>...
>
> >There you see, you find it entertaining, don't you. Now you see why I do what I
> do? It's
> >to entertain the punters like your good self, and the "kindest person in the
> world", the
> >anonymous Rhiannon.
>
> See. Thank you for making my point for me.
You too, you love it don't you. That's why you follow up my every post, trying
desperately to get a reaction from me. Then, when you get one, you assiduously reply
to my every comment. Just like Officer Dibble. Because quite simply, you (pl) find
me entertaining, but you will never have the honesty to admit it. For you, when you
reply to something I say, you are being "kind" to me. Because you can never confess
that you're doing it for entirely selfish reasons, ie that you find it entertaining.
And the most important thing to you is to be thought of as "kind". Look how kind I
am by replying to that disgusting outcast Richard. Yeah, right.
Prince Richard Kaminski
Rhiannon wrote:
In that case, you must already have a 150 member orchestra in front of you.
Pamela Mitchell
<richard....@lineone.net> wrote:
>
>
> Pamela Mitchell wrote:
>
>> We don't have an FAQ here because we scoff at them. I do have something
>> that's not an FAQ that I send to people who are new via e-mail. Malcolm was
>> supposed to be watching to door for me, but he's buggered off now, so if I
>> missed you, drop me a note and I'll send it to you.
>
> I never had one of those FAQs that is not a FAQ. *sniff*
>
That's because you came in and stepped on my toes -- hard. Repeatedly.
Dented my new toe ring real bad. And, in my house, even my two-year-old has
to ask nicely. Whining won't work.
Okay, I'll be really honest. I want to hear you grovel. Just once, for
posterity.
--
Pamela Mitchell
my writing: http://pamelam.cjb.net
Prince Richard Kaminski
Pamela Mitchell wrote:
Ok, if you insist. This is the closest you'll get to a grovel from me.
Dear Pamela,
Thank you for your interest in my one-man newsgroup visiting roadshow. You will
understand that in the course of my travels, I witness many FAQs, non-FAQs,
alternative FAQs, and all other possible materialisations of such a document. I am
therefore unable to peruse every single such document, due to the inevitable
limitations of time and staff.
However, your FAQ which is not a FAQ has aroused my interest, and I am prepared to
waive my usual rule about reading such material in your case. I shall only charge
you a small reading fee of $50, to compensate me for my time and effort in reading
your document, and the amount of hard disk space it will take up on my mail server.
I would appreciate payment in advance, and I look forward to reading what I'm sure
is an excellent non-FAQ.
Yours respectfully,
My Most Honourable Majestic Highness,
PRK
Tab One
No dipstick, the last few were from my laptop. Some of the others are
from *MY* office, never posted anything from the Department. So, to
answer your question it was not at the taxpayers expense.
now piss off back to mw or some hole big enough to house your ego.
>
> WAINS?
Have you just learnt this? I noticed you put it on a reply to Alan
Hope. What a sorrowful person you are. I would get out more if I were
you. Visit some real places with real people.
Tab One
Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
>
> Tab One wrote:
>
> > Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > What are you talking about? Was I addressing you? I thought I was addressing
> > > > > > > the poster who hides her real identity by calling herself "Rhiannon". She
> > > > > > > said, "I agree that no one has the right to be rude to anyone". This is a
> > > > > > > person who calls me a "fucking idiot" and whose friends are constantly calling
> > > > > > > me "fucking prick" and "prick". And she objected when I called her a
> > > > > > > hypocrite.
> >
> > Are you saying you did not post this?
> >
>
No, not until I cut mine out. Go and look dipstick. Notice I am not
calling you a prick any more, as it has been pointed out to me by
several people (well friends actually) that a prick can be useful, but
you are not. So, still needing an appropriate name, I thought dipstick
was apt. You know, always being poked into tight oily holes and gets
hot very quickly.
> I posted the above, yes. It had my name on it, didn't it? What problem do you have
> understanding what I wrote and what I didn't write?
It was not obvious until I removed my name from it dipstick. Pity you
were not out and about in our part of Georgia last night. There was
room for one more in our "Cross Bar Hilton." You could have met some
very nice people, made a couple of friends. Maybe next time.
>
> >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But those are fair comment descriptions of the way you act.
>
> I didn't write the above comment, that was you. Don't you even know what you have written
> yourself?
See above dipstick.
Tab One
Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
>
> paghat wrote to Rhiannon:
>
> > Wish I'd seen your url address, but I'm too lazy to ferret it out.
>
> Why? Do you have a penchant for crudely drawn chipmunks?
OK, dipstick. Post a drawing you have done, so that we can all see
where your expertise as an art critic comes from.
Tab One
Rhiannon wrote:
>
> Prince Richard Kaminski wrote in message <378FD2A0...@lineone.net>...
>
> >But Rhiannon said it was wrong to insult people.
>
> No I didn't, I SAID we do not have the *right* to insult people, but no mention
> of it preventing us from doing so. We could have avoided this entire conflict
> or at least solved this fairly quickly, had you told me at the start that
> English is not your first language.
>
> Rhiannon
Now that put a slightly different light on it. I thought it was because
he was fourteen and using his mummies computer when she was at work.
Tab One
Rhiannon wrote:
>
> Prince Richard Kaminski wrote in message <378FDECD...@lineone.net>...
> >
> >Tab One wrote:
> >
> >> > and the "kindest person in the world", the anonymous Rhiannon.
> >>
> >> Ah, but she was kind to you, but you bit the extended hand, didn't you?
> >
> >Kind? By telling me to shut up and behave like some recalcitrant little boy, while the
> >people she happens to like, such as PB, are allowed to bicker, quarrel and insult people
> >without end? By telling me I am a "fucking idiot"? By rejecting my "peace overture" via
> >email? By encouraging people like you to savagely attack me on her behalf, using such foul
> >names as "prick" and "fucking prick"?
>
> ROFL!!!!
>
> Rhiannon
I must have been preparing to go out last night to have missed quote of;
"..people like you to savagely attack me on her behalf," You obviously
do not understand what a savage attack is dipstick. And anyway, Ms.
Rhiannon can handle you with one hand tied behind her back, so hardly
needs my help. I just want you to shut up, and ignore the grown ups
while we communicate with one another, only post to a thread if asked
to.
Tab One
Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
>
> Rhiannon wrote:
>
> > Prince Richard Kaminski wrote in message <378FD2A0...@lineone.net>...
> >
> > >But Rhiannon said it was wrong to insult people.
> >
> > No I didn't, I SAID we do not have the *right* to insult people
>
> Which clearly implies that it is wrong to do so. Don't play daft word games,
> Rhiannon. It's very clear to the newsgroup exactly what you meant.
>
> > , but no mention
> > of it preventing us from doing so.
>
> Nobody said it prevented anyone.
>
> > We could have avoided this entire conflict
> > or at least solved this fairly quickly, had you told me at the start that
> > English is not your first language.
>
> We could have avoided this entire conflict
> or at least solved this fairly quickly, had you told me at the start that you were
> barking mad.
Claiming to be a Brit, you must know the old saying about the pot
calling the kettle black, and this is perfect example, dipstick.
Tab One
Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
>
> Rhiannon wrote:
>
> > Prince Richard Kaminski wrote in message <378FDECD...@lineone.net>...
> > >
> > >Tab One wrote:
> > >
> > >> > and the "kindest person in the world", the anonymous Rhiannon.
> > >>
> > >> Ah, but she was kind to you, but you bit the extended hand, didn't you?
> > >
> > >Kind? By telling me to shut up and behave like some recalcitrant little boy,
> > while the
> > >people she happens to like, such as PB, are allowed to bicker, quarrel and
> > insult people
> > >without end? By telling me I am a "fucking idiot"? By rejecting my "peace
> > overture" via
> > >email? By encouraging people like you to savagely attack me on her behalf,
> > using such foul
> > >names as "prick" and "fucking prick"?
> >
> > ROFL!!!!
>
> You can roll on the floor all you like (mind the chipmunk, though), but you know
> that what I say is true. I wonder what this "kindness" is people are referring to
> anyway. Is it, "Oh dear, poor old Richard is unpopular here, I think I'll talk to
> him a bit just to make him less unhappy"? Is that the kind of "kindness" we were
> experiencing? I don't think that is kindness at all, just patronising.
I am not a religious person but thank God, it has finally dawned on you,
you have been patronized IMO, since you slid in here a short while ago,
dipstick. Now just slid off out again, or shut up. Please.
>
> I don't think friends are nice to each other because they are "kind". Rather,
> they enjoy each others' company, and have a mutually beneficial relationship.
> "Kind" is where you see an injured bird in the street and take it home and nurse
> it back to health. If that's how you see me, then you have a grave
> misunderstanding of the general situation. It's not about "kindness", you see.
> Now, I'd like to see Officer Dibble's comments on this one.
Outlined above dipstick.
Edwin J Noonan
Prince Richard Kaminski wrote...
> But Rhiannon said it was wrong to insult people. So what should I believe,
what
> Rhiannon says, or what Rhiannon does?
I don't really want to get involved in your petty games, Richard, but let me
see if I can help you figure this out. If you're going to play in this
group, you must be able to grasp distinctions. Rhiannon doesn't insult
reasonable people. She only insults puerile boors.
EJN
Prince Richard Kaminski
Tab One wrote:
Posting binary files to non-binary newsgroups is a very big faux pas, and
can result in your ISP account being terminated. Is this what you were
aiming at? Sorry for not being quite so gullible.
Prince Richard Kaminski
Edwin J Noonan wrote:
Does she? Oh dear, I'm sorry for you Edwin. I'll try and see if I can get her to
stop.
paghat
> Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
> >
> > Tab One wrote:
> >
> > > Time for me to do some serious stuff now, so I will get back to you on
> > > my return from locking up some bad guys.
> >
> > You do this stuff from WORK???? At the *taxpayer's expense* ??
>
>
> No dipstick, the last few were from my laptop. Some of the others are
> from *MY* office, never posted anything from the Department. So, to
> answer your question it was not at the taxpayers expense.
I'm disappointed.
-paghat
paghat
> Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
> >
> > paghat wrote to Rhiannon:
> >
> > > Wish I'd seen your url address, but I'm too lazy to ferret it out.
> >
> > Why? Do you have a penchant for crudely drawn chipmunks?
Chipmunks rule.
-paghat
Prince Richard Kaminski
Tab One wrote:
> I must have been preparing to go out last night to have missed quote of;
> "..people like you to savagely attack me on her behalf," You obviously
> do not understand what a savage attack is dipstick. And anyway, Ms.
> Rhiannon can handle you with one hand tied behind her back, so hardly
> needs my help. I just want you to shut up, and ignore the grown ups
> while we communicate with one another, only post to a thread if asked
> to.
Is that why you reply to my every post, in a bizarre tag team duplicate with the self-styled
sorceress?
Tab One
paghat wrote:
>
> In article <3790B8B9...@pineland.net>, Tab One <ta...@pineland.net> wrote:
>
> > Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
> > >
> > > Tab One wrote:
> > >
> > > > Time for me to do some serious stuff now, so I will get back to you on
> > > > my return from locking up some bad guys.
> > >
> > > You do this stuff from WORK???? At the *taxpayer's expense* ??
> >
> >
> > No dipstick, the last few were from my laptop. Some of the others are
> > from *MY* office, never posted anything from the Department. So, to
> > answer your question it was not at the taxpayers expense.
>
> I'm disappointed.
> -paghat
Me too. Unless Solitaire is on the screen, Sheriff just knows we bin a
messin'
agin wee dem confusers. Shee-Yit!
Now you done nearly got me a tellin' ya bout the shit that went on this
week!
Maybe later...
tab1
paghat
<ejno...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Prince Richard Kaminski wrote...
>
> > But Rhiannon said it was wrong to insult people. So what should I believe,
> what
> > Rhiannon says, or what Rhiannon does?
>
> I don't really want to get involved in your petty games, Richard, but let me
> see if I can help you figure this out. If you're going to play in this
> group, you must be able to grasp distinctions. Rhiannon doesn't insult
> reasonable people. She only insults puerile boors.
>
> EJN
I'm beginning to feel sorry for Edwin. But then, I hadn't been looking in
at the writers' ngs for a few months & I seem utterly to have missed the
reason he's the low oilmark on the dipstick this week. As for Rhiannon,
I'm TERRIBLY curious to know more about her & have emailed her asking for
her url -- she just oozes the possibility of being interesting & I hope I
find out she is.
-paghat
Tab One
Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
>
> Edwin J Noonan wrote:
>
> > Prince Richard Kaminski wrote...
> >
> > > But Rhiannon said it was wrong to insult people. So what should I believe,
> > what
> > > Rhiannon says, or what Rhiannon does?
> >
> > I don't really want to get involved in your petty games, Richard, but let me
> > see if I can help you figure this out. If you're going to play in this
> > group, you must be able to grasp distinctions. Rhiannon doesn't insult
> > reasonable people. She only insults puerile boors.
>
> Does she? Oh dear, I'm sorry for you Edwin. I'll try and see if I can get her to
> stop.
This should be interesting, so far you have only got her to *LAUGH AT
YOU* and you have not been able to stop that either.
Tab One
Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
>
> Tab One wrote:
>
> > Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
> > >
> > > paghat wrote to Rhiannon:
> > >
> > > > Wish I'd seen your url address, but I'm too lazy to ferret it out.
> > >
> > > Why? Do you have a penchant for crudely drawn chipmunks?
> >
> > OK, dipstick. Post a drawing you have done, so that we can all see
> > where your expertise as an art critic comes from.
>
> Posting binary files to non-binary newsgroups is a very big faux pas, and
> can result in your ISP account being terminated. Is this what you were
> aiming at? Sorry for not being quite so gullible.
Then send everyone in the group an email with the drawing as an
attachment, dipstick.
Tab One
Stop, and I will stop, dipstick.
Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
>
> Tab One wrote:
>
Prince Richard Kaminski
Tab One wrote:
> Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
> >
> > Tab One wrote:
> >
I can't, Officer Dibble. PButler has put me in her email block file.
Prince Richard Kaminski
Tab One wrote:
> I told, you once, attack my friends and it is if you are attacking me.
> Stop, and I will stop, dipstick.
Wait a minute, didn't you just tell me in another post that Rhiannon could deal with me with one
arm tied behind her back?? So why do you need to act out your infantile fantasies of being a noble
knight riding to the rescue of a damsel in distress?
Tab1
I don't act out infantile fantasies. I 'do' things in the real world,
not the fantasy one you reside in.
You are the one addicted to Mental Masturbation, not me dipstick.
tab1
CynMob
>Chipmunks rule
Nope. Meerkats.
Cyn
Prince Richard Kaminski
Tab1 wrote:
> Prince Richard Kaminski wrote:
> >
> > Tab One wrote:
> >
> > > I told, you once, attack my friends and it is if you are attacking me.
> > > Stop, and I will stop, dipstick.
> >
> > Wait a minute, didn't you just tell me in another post that Rhiannon
> > could deal with me with one arm tied behind her back?? So why do you
> > need to act out your infantile fantasies of being a noble
> > knight riding to the rescue of a damsel in distress?
>
> I don't act out infantile fantasies.
No? You are imagining yourself a little scenario where I am "attacking" your
little sorceress. In fact, it is *she* who keeps posting derogatory remarks
after my learned articles here. That's what started off the current spate of
verbal ping pong. Regardless of whether her hearse comment was actually about
me, it followed a whole series of provocations which most definitely *were*
about me, and which I had ignored.