beginner - notching out a 2x4
AC
Real beginner here.
I would like to make a frame (correct word?) out of 2 x 4s
As part of this instead of nogs (is this a new zealand, southern
hemisphere term? Its the small bits placed between studs/uprights) I
want to notch out the 2x4 studs/uprights and put another 2x4 all the
way along.
diagramatically may make better sense
<--4" stud/upright-->
------------------
| |
| |
| |
| |
| _____ |
| |
| |
| | 4" high notch, 2" deep, which will take the
horizontal 2x4
| |_____
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
I have access to a skill/circular saw, drop saw, jig saw, a drill, and
some chisels, but that is about it.
My idea is to make a series of 2" deep cuts using the skill/circular
saw, and then chisel out. The bottom one needs to be nice and clean
but the rest can be ugly and even a bit higher than 4" as it probably
wont matter too much if the hole is too big.
eg
<--4"-->
------------------
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| xxxxxx <--- cut here with skill saw 2" deep
| xxxxxx <--- cut here with skill saw 2" deep
| xxxxxx <--- cut here with skill saw 2" deep
| xxxxxx <--- cut here with skill saw 2" deep
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
However I would like to make a nice job of it if possible, and would
be best to learn good techniques where possible.
So all advice on how to do the above with what I have would be really
appreciated - including totally different ideas to my own.
Even advice on how to chisel it out nicely (assuming my idea is an ok
one) would be good too, i am a real beginnier (never even did woodwork
at school!)
I think you get the drift of this post, I have an idea but would like
either better ideas, or advice on techniques if my idea is ok.
Thanks
Andy C
SteveBell
Disclaimers:
A lot depends on what kind of load the structure will bear. You don't
mention that, so I'll assume your frame is _not_ part of a wall, just
something decorative. I also don't know what your building codes
require.
Use the circular saw to make numerous two-inch-deep cuts across the
2x4. Since you want the bottom to look nice, space them about 1/8"
apart. You'll wind up with a bunch of thin fingers of wood sticking up.
The cuts on the outside are the only ones that matter, so make sure
those are accurate.
Whack the fingers with your hammer to knock them out. You'll be left
with smooth sides of the notch and a rough bottom.
Use the chisel to smooth the bottom of the notch. All you have to take
out is the bumps that stick up above your saw kerfs. If you were doing
wall construction, you could make fewer cuts and not worry about the
bottom of the notch.
--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX USA
Maxwell Lol
> My idea is to make a series of 2" deep cuts using the skill/circular
> saw, and then chisel out. The bottom one needs to be nice and clean
> but the rest can be ugly and even a bit higher than 4" as it probably
> wont matter too much if the hole is too big.
That's a common way to go. Just don't cut as deep as it needs to be,
and chisel out the bottom to make it smooth. If you undercut a lot,
and use the chisel to remove a lot of waste, there is a risk that you
may not cut it square.
I would try to get the depth of the cut nearly exact, and just chisel
out enough to make it smooth. It's has to be smooth, but it won't be
visible.
Some saw blades might have a smoother kerf with a ATB blade. But I'm
not sure that is necessary.
And as Steve Bell says - knock the fingers out with a hammer, or any
blunt object. :-)
AC
To follow up on a comment made by steve:
I am going to make some shelves in a garage. This is the front of the
shelves, and the horizontal 2x4 will be the "rail" the shelf wood will
sit on. I will also put a matching rail directly onto the wall
behind, and the shelf wood will be nailed directly onto these rails
and (hopefully) provide the stability to keep the front frame in
place. I intend to nail the front frame into the floor (wooden floors
in my garage) and one side of the frame can be nailed into a wall, but
the other side cannot. (diag below to help understand). I cannot
nail the top of the frame into the roof at all.
FRONT VIEW
| = 2x4 uprights
*=can nail this side into a wall as I am installing this in the corner
of my garage
*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<-- top 2x4
*| | |
| |
*| | |
| |
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<-- horizontal 2x4 "rail"
*| | |
| |
*| | |
| |
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<-- horizontal 2x4 "rail"
*| | |
| |
*| | |
| |
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<-- horizontal 2x4, will nail into the ground
SIDE VIEW
garage wall to the left, frame to the right.
* = horizonal 2x4 rail, left ones are nailed into garage wall, right
ones are attached to the frame as discussed above
---- = shelf (will be rough sawn 200mmx25mm = 80"x10"), and will be
nailed onto the rails (pic shows sort of looking like below, but meant
to be above)
| |
| * ------------*|
| |
| * ------------*|
| |
| * ------------*|
| |
I am hoping it will be stable enough, but was a bit nervous :)
Size wise, asusming a front on view, it will be approx 3m wide and 2m
high. I planned to have 4 upgrights, 1 every meter. The shelf depth
will be approx 500mm I think (havnt yet parked the car in to see what
I can get away with and still open the car door). The 200x25mm
shelves will be nailed in lengthways, ie if you had a bird eye view
the shelf wood would be run from the frame to the wall, and not
sideways along the entire width of the frame (hope that makes
sense).
Its this shelf wood which will be providing the stability (I hope!)
As above, I can nail the front frame into the floor and one side of it
into a wall. Will that be sufficient? If not, should I also make a
mini frame for the open side which connects the front of the frame to
the garage wall, and nail that in for stability? see below for pic
TOP VIEW
garage wall = +
+++++++++++++++++++
+ |
+ | <-- should i make a small
frame here too?
+ |
+ |
+_____________________| <-- frame
Thanks
Andy C
AC
> Thanks for the advice steve/maxwell
>
> To follow up on a comment made by steve:
>
> I am going to make some shelves in a garage. This is the front of the
> shelves, and the horizontal 2x4 will be the "rail" the shelf wood will
> sit on. I will also put a matching rail directly onto the wall
> behind, and the shelf wood will be nailed directly onto these rails
> and (hopefully) provide the stability to keep the front frame in
> place. I intend to nail the front frame into the floor (wooden floors
> in my garage) and one side of the frame can be nailed into a wall, but
> the other side cannot. (diag below to help understand). I cannot
> nail the top of the frame into the roof at all.
>
> FRONT VIEW
>
> | = 2x4 uprights
> *=can nail this side into a wall as I am installing this in the corner
> of my garage
>
> *
> <-- top 2x4
> *| | |
> | |
> *| | |
> | |
> <-- horizontal 2x4 "rail"
> *| | |
> | |
> *| | |
> | |
> <-- horizontal 2x4 "rail"
> *| | |
> | |
> *| | |
> | |
Sorry, my pics got auto width stuffed up, will try to redo below but
smaller:
*---------------------------------------- <-- top 2x4
*| | |
*| | |
*---------------------------------------- <- 2x4 rail
*| | |
*| | |
*---------------------------------------- <- 2x4 rail
*| | |
*| | |
*---------------------------------------- <- 2x4 base
can nail the base into the ground.
> TOP VIEW
> garage wall = +
> +++++++++++++++++++
> + |
> + | <-- should i make a small
> + | frame here too?
> + |
> +_____________________| <-- frame
SteveBell
>Thanks for the advice steve/maxwell
>
>To follow up on a comment made by steve:
>
>I am going to make some shelves in a garage. This is the front of the
>shelves, and the horizontal 2x4 will be the "rail" the shelf wood will
>sit on. I will also put a matching rail directly onto the wall
>behind, and the shelf wood will be nailed directly onto these rails
>and (hopefully) provide the stability to keep the front frame in
>place. I intend to nail the front frame into the floor (wooden floors
>in my garage) and one side of the frame can be nailed into a wall, but
>the other side cannot. (diag below to help understand). I cannot
>nail the top of the frame into the roof at all.
>
>FRONT VIEW
>
>> = 2x4 uprights
>*=can nail this side into a wall as I am installing this in the corner
>of my garage
>
>*
>*---------------------------------------------------------------------
>*| | |
>> |
>*| | |
>> |
>*---------------------------------------------------------------------
>---------- <-- horizontal 2x4 "rail"
>*| | |
>> |
>*| | |
>> |
>*---------------------------------------------------------------------
>---------- <-- horizontal 2x4 "rail"
>*| | |
>> |
>*| | |
>> |
>*---------------------------------------------------------------------
>---------- <-- horizontal 2x4, will nail into the ground
Here's a link to the "Sagulator". It will let you calculate how much a
shelf will sag, based on its construction and the load you plan to put
on it.
http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm
And here's a link to a site that has good pictures of garage shelves:
http://handyowner.com/2008/09/16/how-to-build-garage-and-basement-shelves/
If you screw the back of the shelves to the wall, one screw per stud
per shelf, your unit won't go anywhere. If you screw the shelf material
to the supports, it will keep the unit from racking (twisting) whether
you fasten it to the side wall or not.
My recommendations:
* Use 2x2 or 2x3 material instead of 2x4 for the horizontal rails. The
space behind the front rail isn't really usable, and 2x4 rails are
overkill. Check the Sagulator for loads.
* Use 3/4" plywood for the shelves. OSB is good too. The 1x4s used in
the linked page are nice, but expensive.
* Make the lowest shelf a good ways off the floor. That's where you'll
put big stuff like five-gallon cans, sacks of fertilizer, and lawn
equipment. If the lowest area is too small, you'll lose stuff back
there.
* Use painted deck screws instead of nails. Garages can be humid, and
nails will rust unless you pay more for hot-dip galvanized or stainless
steel. Screws are also easier to remove if you change your mind.
p.s. Sorry about the Imperial units. I'm guessing you're in a sensible
metric country.