WOLF HYBRID OWNERS PLEASE READ!!!!!
Xerxes9911
provision banning the sale or breeding of wolf hybrids.
Sponsored by State Senator Danny Corbett, the provision claims that wolf
hybrids are dangerous pets, that the FDA-approved rabies vaccine is ineffective
in hybrids, and that (I quote Senator Corbett) "wolf hybrid owners are rednecks
who you wouldn't want living next door to you."
Needless to say, none of the above are true.
The bill goes on to make registration (and a fee of $100) a mandatory
requirement for current owners of hybrids in the state.
Please, anyone in Alabama (or anywhere, for that matter) who wants to preserve
the right of individuals to breed, raise, and own wolf hybrids contact the
Alabama Wolf Hybrid and Exotic Pet Association, Ray Parrish, treasurer, 2834
Adams Street, Helena, AL 35080 or contact Debbie Wilson at 205.329.2537. Or
contact me through E-mail at Xerxe...@aol.com.
Efforts to amend this legislation are supported by many groups, including the
Alabama Cattlemen's Association and other agricultural groups.
We need your help! Please get vocal about this stupidity!
ARMSTRONG, SUSAN
************************************************************************
*** My opinions on the general subject of pet wolves and wolf hybrids **
************************************************************************
Umm... excuse me... it is not "needless to say" that it is not true that
wolf hybrids are dangerous pets. As someone who has worked closely with
captive wolves for about 4 years in total, I would like to remark that
there is considerable room for debate on that question. I have a clipping
file on attacks on small children by pet wolves and hybrids, some of them
fatal. Yes, I know that dogs also attack and kill children occasionally.
The point is that it's the wolf ancestry of the domestic dog which makes it
occasionally attack children, livestock, etc. -- a dog is a domesticated wolf
and a wolf is a large, powerful predator like a lion or a tiger. So putting
genes of the original, pure, undomesticated wolf back into the domestic dog
is playing with fire. Skilled and experienced people can play with fire
more safely than totally inexperienced people; the same goes for owning
pet wolves and high content wolf hybrids. But it is never totally safe to
play with fire.
Beyond the tragedy to individual families and animals when hybrids kill or
maim children, I would like to point out that such an attack by a hybrid wolf
is perceived - and REPORTED - quite differently from a dog attack. It
gets widespread press coverage and it makes wolves look bad, thus helping to
set back gains in wild wolf recovery which have been laboriously made over
the years.
I have another comment to make which is based on personal observation of
animals sold as "wolf hybrids", and looking at numerous photographs of
such animals. I wouldn't claim to be an expert in anything, but I have
studied wolves for about 20 years and I do know what a wolf looks like.
I am disturbed to see from these observations and photographs that fairly
often, the percentage of wolf content in animals is exaggerated. Whether
this is deliberate or the result of the breeder/seller's lack of knowledge
is beside the point. The point is this: An animal which is sold as "half
wolf", but which (judging from looking at it) has no apparent wolf
ancestry, is going to act just like a dog around the house...because it *IS*
a dog! (To all intents and purposes.) So the owner will, naturally,
defend wolf hybrids as being no more dangerous than dogs. The trouble
arises when someone buys a REAL 50% or 75% wolf hybrid as a house pet.
Such an animal can be depended on *not* to act exactly like a house dog...
and problems, of one kind or another, lie ahead.
All the above comments are IMO, of course. I am very aware how much debate
there has been and will continue to be about pet wolves and wolf hybrids.
I realize that people like to refer to their "right" to own hybrids, or
guns, or whatever potentially dangerous animal or thing. My definition of
"rights" is a little narrower than that. I tend to think of such ownership
as a privilege and a big responsibility, rather than a right, IMHO.
(Maybe it's because I'm Canadian!)
This idea of registering hybrids is thought by many people (far more
knowledgeable than myself) to be the only effective way of keeping tabs on
wolf hybrids, from the point of view of administration and public safety. High
content wolf hybrids need to be housed and handled in certain ways or there
may, indeed, be danger to the public. The only way to even try to
implement such sensible restrictions is by a system of registration.
IMO, there is no effective way to ban the sale or breeding of wolf hybrids,
so I don't think the Alabama hybrid people need to think their hobby
will actually be eliminated by this legislation. (At least not until someone
develops a cheap, simple, dependable genetic test to determine what is
and what is not a genuine wolf hybrid, and what its percentage is.)
I hope the system of registration proposed in Alabama includes requirements
for proper enclosures which keep curious children and strangers away from the
hybrids, except under controlled conditions.
Hey everyone -- I love wolves and have devoted much of my energies in life
to learning about them. But wolves are predators! They have evolved over
millions of years in harsh northern environments to KILL large, dangerous
prey animals however and whenever they have the chance. Let's not forget
that those predatory genes are what we are putting back in when we cross
dogs with wolves.
(I have personally known "pet" wolves who have attacked people; one of these
wolves killed a child. I have also narrowly escaped injury by captive
wolves, due to perfectly ordinary carelessness on my part. I got too near a
fence, without paying attention, and the wolf grabbed my leg and tried to yank
it through the wire. Fortunately he just got hold of my pant leg and it quickly
ripped. But I'll never forget how the other wolves rushed over, eager to share
the prize (my leg). These same wolves later grabbed the arm of a boy who had
been teasing them through the fence, pulled it inside and literally tore
it to shreds; the arm couldn't be saved. That is just the way wolves are
sometimes! I don't hate them for it, because they can't help doing it.
And the boy was just being a kid and teasing the animals... and that is what
can happen when you put children and wolves -- or even wolf instincts in a
high-content hybrid -- together.)
I know what I have just said will not be welcome to some people. Your
opinions are welcome, but let's not have a personalized flame war *PLEASE?*...
there are too many of those on the net already... and we are not going to
resolve this issue on the net any more than anti-abortionists and freedom-
of-choicers will kiss and make up their differences on the net! ;)
(Please keep in mind that I have never said, in the above post, that
wolf hybrids ought to be banned. That just isn't going to
happen. My prime concern aired above is safe housing and handling of
high content hybrids, if people insist on owning and breeding them.)
Sorry this post is so lengthy, but I have thought about this issue a lot
over the years.
-- Susan in Montreal (we still have wild wolves 100 miles north of here,
travelling, hunting and killing, doing what nature designed them to do...
isn't that great? :) :) :)
GoldenWolf
The thing about wolves that many people forget is that a wolf is no more
a dog than a cat is a dog. Though they can interbreed, they are entirely
different animals.
A dog is human-oriented. Indeed, most dogs actually "worship" their
humans. But to other animals, a dog can be extremely fierce and
vicious. I know that there are dogs that get along with all Creation,
but most of them will gladly attack and kill squirrels, cats, etc.
A wolf, on the other hand sees a human as another animal, nothing
special. But a wolf is not fierce like a dog. If a wolf is not hunting,
even prey-animals are safe.
The problem with wolf/dog hybrids is that you *might* get an animal that
is human-oriented and good-natured. But you also might get a fierce
animal that holds humans in no special regard. (Which is why feral dogs
are so dangerous)
And, of course, it should always bee remembered that a wolf is an
extremely *powerful* animal, and only people who have the
knowledge/wisdom/resourses to handle/own a wolf or a wolf/dog should do so.
in my humble lupin opinion, of course. <wag>
--
|What a piece of work is a wolf!...in form, in | GoldenWolf, email at:
|moving, how express and admirable! In action, | odon...@ac.wfunet.wfu.edu
|how like an angel,in apprehension,how like a god!|
|The beauty of the world, the paragon of animals! | (wags to Shakespeare)
ARMSTRONG, SUSAN
Thanks for your post. I would like to make some comments about it...
hopefully everyone isn't sick of my opinions after my previous long post :)
>Reagrding wolf/dog hybrids...
>
>The thing about wolves that many people forget is that a wolf is no more
>a dog than a cat is a dog. Though they can interbreed, they are entirely
>different animals.
Actually, as far as science can determine, a dog is a domesticated wolf.
Domestication = selective breeding by humans (eliminating undesirable
characteristics, changing the size and shape, etc.) over 50,000 to 100,000
years. That's why wolves and northern breed dogs look so much alike, and
that's what can fool people into thinking a wolf is just a big, beautiful,
energetic wild dog.
Wolves _do_ have some "cat-like" aspects to their personality in relation
to human beings. They are not anxious to please people any more than a cat
is. They can be "trained" only by positive reinforcement, similar to the
way you would "train" a cat.
>
>A dog is human-oriented. Indeed, most dogs actually "worship" their
>humans. But to other animals, a dog can be extremely fierce and
>vicious. I know that there are dogs that get along with all Creation,
>but most of them will gladly attack and kill squirrels, cats, etc.
>
>A wolf, on the other hand sees a human as another animal, nothing
>special. But a wolf is not fierce like a dog. If a wolf is not hunting,
>even prey-animals are safe.
Dogs like to chase and kill small animals because they retain (after all
those tens of thousands of years) a wolf's predatory reflexes. Seeing a
small animal (or -- a little child, or a bicyclist's legs, or the spinning
hubcaps of a car) running away from them really turns them on! They've
just got to go after it. But when they catch up to it, not all breeds or
all dogs will go through the rest of the hunting/killing sequence, because
selective breeding has diluted that part of the wolf's behaviour patterns.
Wolves in the wild have to work very hard to catch their food, becuase
nobody's feeding them but themselves. Their "job" of killing is dangerous
work. So when they are not hungry they do not tend to kill for amusement.
They don't have the energy to spare. (This does not mean wolves never
kill in excess. Under unusual circumstances they will do so.)
Wolvesv don't act "fierce" toward their prey, if
by "fierce" you mean angry behaviour (snarling, snapping, barking). They
aren't angry with their food. Killing is just a job to them, and they go
about it very efficiently and effectively.
Sheep- or deer-killing dogs will often severly mutilate their prey,
leaving them dying but not killed. (I'll never forget a photo of a doe
lying in the snow -- literally skinned alive by a pack of dogs.)
A wolf would not be so inefficient. The average dog isn't sure how to kill,
but a wolf "just goes in there and KILLS", as one farmer put it.
>The problem with wolf/dog hybrids is that you *might* get an animal that
>is human-oriented and good-natured. But you also might get a fierce
>animal that holds humans in no special regard. (Which is why feral dogs
>are so dangerous)
I believe your concept is drawn from Lois Crisler's books.
I think it was in _Arctic Wild_ that she made her comments
about fierce-hearted dogs, gentle-hearted wolves, human-oriented
or non-human-oriented animals.) I hold Lois's writing in the very highest
esteem. However I think if she had lived longer she might have later
refined this idea. Remember, her experience with sexually mature
wolves was limited to one wolf, Alatna. Also notice (in _Captive Wild_)
that Alatna bites and threatens both Lois and her husband a number of times
over the years. Most "wolf owners" would not have as forgiving and generous
an attitude as Lois did to these alarming incidents. (The hybrids, Alatna's
offspring, are depicted as much more dangerous than Alatna, but the pure
wolf herself is certainly not an innocuous harmless creature. Lois indicates
that she sometimes felt her very life was in danger from the hybrids. But
never from Alatna, whom she trusted and loved much more. Well, I wonder.
Sometimes love can be blind...)
Anybody who has read _Arctic Wild_ and has been charmed by the idyllic images
of life with free-living, sexually immature pet wolves, should definitely
follow it up with a reading of _Captive Wild_, the story of what happened
after Lois took the wolf pups back to Colorado and life in a
cage. (The alternative was to shoot them when the Crislers left the
Arctic.) _Captive Wild_ is an all but unbearably tragic book. Still
it must be read as an invaluable, stark portrait of the realities of
living with a pet wolf and a pack of wolf/husky hybrids. It is too
bad this important book is not nearly as widely known as _Arctic Wild_.
Probably because it is not a happy story... just the opposite.
In practical terms, I would say that domestic dogs do not have a strong
innate fear of humans. Wolves do! But a wolf's innate fear can be
greatly reduced if the wolf is raised by humans from birth. And when you
take away that wolfish "awe" of humans, you remove our protection. If a tame
wolf decides he wants to attack you in a dominance fight, or make a
predatory attack on you if you trip and fall to the ground, you are not
protected by the normal wolf fear of humans! And the wolf's instinct to
follow through on an attack has not been blunted by domestication
(like the dog's has been).
Wild wolves, however, are extremely timid of people.
So I would describe wolves as cautious, careful, wary animals, rather
than "gentle-hearted". They CAN be extremely gentle at times (how well I
know this!), but so can a tiger or a lion.
>And, of course, it should always bee remembered that a wolf is an
>extremely *powerful* animal, and only people who have the
>knowledge/wisdom/resourses to handle/own a wolf or a wolf/dog should do so.
>
>in my humble lupin opinion, of course. <wag>
You are absolutely right. To that I would add my paraphrase of the late
Douglas Pimlott's words: Wolves are wild animals. It is not right to make
a pet out of a wolf unless you can provide the proper facilities for the
animal, and the only real "proper facilities" for a wolf is the wilderness.
>
>|What a piece of work is a wolf!...in form, in | GoldenWolf, email at:
>|moving, how express and admirable! In action, | odon...@ac.wfunet.wfu.edu
>|how like an angel,in apprehension,how like a god!|
>|The beauty of the world, the paragon of animals! | (wags to Shakespeare)
"Howl, howl, howl!" -- W. Shakespeare
(3 free wags to the first person who can guess which
play that comes from!)
Xerxes9911
(ARMSTRONG, SUSAN) writes:
>This idea of registering hybrids is thought by many people (far more
>knowledgeable than myself) to be the only effective way of keeping tabs >on
>wolf hybrids, from the point of view of administration and public safety.
>High
content wolf hybrids need to be housed and handled in certain ways or >there
>may, indeed, be danger to the public. The only way to even try to
>implement such sensible restrictions is by a system of registration.
Thanks for an intelligent and articulate response, Susan. I largely agree with
you, and I defer to your apparent greater knowledge about wolves. Responsible
and informed owners are necessary for the good of their community, their pets,
and the status of hybrids (and, as you pointed out, the state of wolves in the
wild). I would be all for registering animals, making sure owners know what
they are buying, and closely supervising breeders and sellers of hybrids.
That is not what is going to happen in Alabama. They are going to BAN, by
legislative fiat, a breed of animals that they know very little about.
No one with small children should own a hybrid. No one without adequate land
and strong fences should own a hybrid. No one without time and money to spend
on their animals should own a hybrid. People who buy these dogs for reasons of
misplaced machismo disgust me.
I've had two hybrids, Diva and Shandy, both female, for about three or four
years now. They have plenty of space to run, they get lotsa attention, and
sometimes they are a HUGE pain in the ass (Hint: never leave a garden hose in
an area with hybrids, if you ever want to see it intact)! Both animals are
affectionate, stubborn, and I have never felt threatened by them. They have
never snapped at a person, and I have never let them play near children.
Yes, responsible ownership is vital. Yes, they are predators at heart, and they
can kill people. I would NEVER EVER own a pure wolf, nor would I own a male
hybrid, based on personal obervation of the animals (I think females are
smarter, calmer, and easier to control). I would never breed my dogs, because I
don't have the time, energy, or money to do it right, and my dogs are pets, not
sources of income.
Ownership of wolf hybrids is not a dangerous hobby, in the sense that skydiving
is not a dangerous sport: proper information and precautions are VITAL,
acknowledgment of underlying risks is ESSENTIAL, and the rewards can be great
if one takes the time to do it right.
Information, not legislation is key. I would love to hear from other folks with
experience with hybrids.
Jon
------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon W. O'Barr
xerxe...@aol.com
"Here's the .sig line I left out last time...." Jon
------------------------------------------------------------------
ARMSTRONG, SUSAN
>In article <28APR199...@pavo.concordia.ca>, s_a...@pavo.concordia.ca
>(ARMSTRONG, SUSAN) writes:
>
>>This idea of registering hybrids is thought by many people (far more
>>knowledgeable than myself) to be the only effective way of keeping tabs >on
>>wolf hybrids, from the point of view of administration and public safety.
>>High
>content wolf hybrids need to be housed and handled in certain ways or >there
>>may, indeed, be danger to the public. The only way to even try to
>>implement such sensible restrictions is by a system of registration.
>
>Thanks for an intelligent and articulate response, Susan. I largely agree with
>you, and I defer to your apparent greater knowledge about wolves. Responsible
>and informed owners are necessary for the good of their community, their pets,
>and the status of hybrids (and, as you pointed out, the state of wolves in the
>wild). I would be all for registering animals, making sure owners know what
>they are buying, and closely supervising breeders and sellers of hybrids.
>
>That is not what is going to happen in Alabama. They are going to BAN, by
>legislative fiat, a breed of animals that they know very little about.
>
>No one with small children should own a hybrid. No one without adequate land
>and strong fences should own a hybrid. No one without time and money to spend
>on their animals should own a hybrid. People who buy these dogs for reasons of
>misplaced machismo disgust me.
>
deleted for convenience...]
Jon, you make excellent points in the last paragraph above. (mutual
admiration society here? ;) The one about the strong fences and adequate
space is the most
important one from a legislative viewpoint. I don't know how they could
control the small children, time & money variables under any system of
registration! (If only they could) Anyway a system of hybrid
registration would allow the adequacy of enclosures to be monitored.
Violations would be penalized (after a warning etc).
I realize they are going to ban hybrids on paper. But how are they going to
enforce it, when it comes right down to it? I do not think there is yet a
scientifically proven test to infallibly distinguish a hybrid from a dog from
a wolf. (Though they are working on one) So there is no way to PROVE an
animal's ancestry one way or another. And I don't think that Americans
will stand for police rounding up all puppies that have pointed ears
and bushy tails, and forcibly sterilizing them/liquidating them because
they are under suspicion of being hybrids....? There'd be an
insurrection.
Besides, what is a hybrid? Will it be illegal to sell a dog that is 1/32nd
wolf? Or when it gets back to the authorities that you are breeding/buying
hybrids, how are they going to PROVE that your animals are hybrids? (In a
legal sense, I mean.) Unless they look exactly like wolves.
(I have no idea what the legal precedents are regarding such bans
on hybrids. I'm sure they exist though)
Seriously -- meaning no disrespect to the Alabama legislators -- I would be
interested to know how this ban is going to implemented in practice.
Sure, the trade will have to go underground but it will continue, because
there is a big demand for hybrids and people are willing to fill the demand.
That is why I said I didn't think the people in Alabama need to worry that
their hobby will be stamped out. At worst they will have to buy animals out
of state and smuggle them in, etc. Falsification of papers for convenience
is really common in the wolf hybrid trade, as far as I have ever heard.
-- Susan (who is in a rotten cynical mood because spring is weeks late up
here in Quebec and we are walking around muttering to the naked
trees, "Come on, leaves -- let's go!") :(
Jan Hilborn
I love wolves. I have owned high percentage wolf hybrids and loved them.
I think the option should be available for people who want to own them
and understand what they are dealing with to have hybrids of their own.
But I've said here before and I'll say it again; at least in the USA
most dog owners can't raise and control something as eager to please as a
golden retriever; why make it easy for tragedy to happen.
Plus there is the added consideration that many of the people breeding
and buying hybrids aren't doing it for love of wolves but for love of
money or image.
I am all for controls that allow hybrids but encourage education and
clamp down on unscrupulous breeder/buyers. If we don't have that then the
day will come when they'll outlaw hybrids (or try to) altogether; and
then they'll go gunning for the wolves in the wild even more then they do
now.
(personally i'd rather have wild wolves running the woods around me than
a hybrid sleeping beside my bed. i own dogs now and i advocate for wild
wolves.)
jan hilborn just south of Montreal
Bill Marcum
Didn't I read in this newsgroup a week or two ago that some scientists
had decided that dogs and wolves are the same species? If that is true,
and if there is any truth to the theory that dog rabies vaccine doesn't
work on wolves, how do we know that the same vaccine can protect all the
hundreds of breeds of dogs? How many different breeds has it been tested
on? Perhaps we should outlaw Chihuahuas and Shar-Peis, not to mention
mixed breeds.
--
Bill Marcum bma...@iglou.com
"I am the genie of the sandwich. Release me and I will grant you three
lunches." Iago, from Disney's "Aladdin" TV series.
Jan Hilborn
>
> Didn't I read in this newsgroup a week or two ago that some scientists
> had decided that dogs and wolves are the same species? If that is true,
> and if there is any truth to the theory that dog rabies vaccine doesn't
> work on wolves, how do we know that the same vaccine can protect all the
> hundreds of breeds of dogs? How many different breeds has it been tested
> on? Perhaps we should outlaw Chihuahuas and Shar-Peis, not to mention
> mixed breeds.
>
medicine which works on most dogs will kill a collie and many dogs of
collie type breeds. They are all dogs but they aren't all exactly the
same dogs. (we are all people but we can't all take the same types of
antibiotics...)
jan
Norm Mackey
> Didn't I read in this newsgroup a week or two ago that some
> scientists had decided that dogs and wolves are the same
> species? If that is true, and if there is any truth to the
> theory that dog rabies vaccine doesn't work on wolves, how do we
> know that the same vaccine can protect all the hundreds of
> breeds of dogs? How many different breeds has it been tested
> on? Perhaps we should outlaw Chihuahuas and Shar-Peis, not to
> mention mixed breeds.
Depends on the definition of the word "species". For a long time
dingoes were considered a separate species from domestic dogs. Now
they are the same species. Which is fortunate for the person wanting
to vaccinate one of the Australian breeds claiming dingo ancestry, I
guess. I understand the New Guinea Singing Dog has recently been
granted domestic doghood as well. I would appreciate it if anyone
knows if these breeds have undergone massive rabies vaccine testing
of the type demanded for wolf hybrids (or perhaps I should say "dogs
of partial wolf ancestry", if they are the same "species" ;-) ).
What is the acceptable danger when treating the immune systems of
all "dogs" as the same?
A vet informs me wolf-dogs can use the same blood bank as other
dogs. They can interbreed and produce consistently fertile young
with any proportion of wolf, through the dance of genetic
recombination. Surely someone could provide the risk calculation
that indicated that if a wolf-dog is given a rabies vaccine, a human
is more likely to be exposed to rabies by the animal than if the
creature goes unvaccinated? I assume that is the reason - wouldn't
it be downright criminal to increase the risk of human exposure?
And how, good lord, do the owners of "Bengal" cats get away with
being considered domesticated cats? They are the admitted result of
mixing domestic cats and another species, and it took a complicated
breeding scheme to produce a fertile strain - yet I've never heard a
breath of protest at the evident lack of a rabies vaccine for them!
=====================
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asked to leave The Future immediately."
Firesign Theatre, _I Think We're All Bozos on This Bus_
=====================
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Jim Morris
: bma...@iglou.iglou.com (Bill Marcum) writes:
: > Didn't I read in this newsgroup a week or two ago that some
: > scientists had decided that dogs and wolves are the same
: > species? If that is true, and if there is any truth to the
: > theory that dog rabies vaccine doesn't work on wolves, how do we
: > know that the same vaccine can protect all the hundreds of
: > breeds of dogs? How many different breeds has it been tested
: > on? Perhaps we should outlaw Chihuahuas and Shar-Peis, not to
: > mention mixed breeds.
There is no "logic" to the statement that the rabies vaccine doesn't
work on wolves or hybrids. In fact it does work. Titre studies prove that.
However the paperwork has not been done to register the vaccine for
hybrids or wolves.
WERF is currently undertaking the work needed to register the vaccine,
but they need money to do it as they are a charity.
For more info on the Rabies project, and Wolf Hybrids there is
information available via anonymous FTP,
netcom.com in pub/morris/wh
WERF is looking for donations to support this process, they are a
registered charity.
This is just another example of the anti-wolf-hybrid lobby making
exceptions. Of course this could bite them in the butt when their
favourite breed is outlawed because no-one tested the rabies vacine
specifically on that breed :-)
--
Jim Morris. mor...@netcom.com
Norm Mackey
> Didn't I read in this newsgroup a week or two ago that some
> scientists had decided that dogs and wolves are the same
> species? If that is true, and if there is any truth to the
> theory that dog rabies vaccine doesn't work on wolves, how do we
> know that the same vaccine can protect all the hundreds of
> breeds of dogs? How many different breeds has it been tested
> on? Perhaps we should outlaw Chihuahuas and Shar-Peis, not to
> mention mixed breeds.
Depends on the definition of the word "species". For a long time
----
Mark Grant
comments on the practicalities of banning animals, as opposed to the
great theoretical arguments that are thrown around.
ARMSTRONG, SUSAN (s_a...@pavo.concordia.ca) wrote:
: >>This idea of registering hybrids is thought by many people (far more
: >>knowledgeable than myself) to be the only effective way of keeping tabs >on
: >>wolf hybrids, from the point of view of administration and public safety.
That's what the British government said in the seventies about people
keeping big cats (panthers, pumas, lions, etc) in suburban houses. There
was an interesting TV program about this a few months ago (I'm posting
this from the UK logged into mindvox over the Internet), which claimed
that as a result of the laws that were passed requiring licences and
super-duper security precautions (huge fences, etc) most owners released
their pets into the wild rather than have them killed, and as a result,
Britain now has a stable (if not increasing) population of panthers and
pumas (and the odd lion) on the moors in the South-West. Personally, I
think that's pretty cool, but the farmers whose sheep are being killed
would probably prefer it if the animals were still being looked after
elsewhere.
As far as I'm aware, the same regulations don't apply to wolves over here,
at the least I saw a trailer once for a TV program about a family who had
one living in a suburban house. Unfortunately, not being a big TV viewer,
I missed the actual program.... 8-(
: >>High
: >content wolf hybrids need to be housed and handled in certain ways or >there
: >>may, indeed, be danger to the public. The only way to even try to
: >>implement such sensible restrictions is by a system of registration.
Doubt it, it hasn't worked over here.... and who's going to decide
whether my pet is 'a danger to the public' or not ? For that matter,
who's going to decide what 'restrictions' are 'sensible' or not, and what
are you going to do about all the people who simply ignore the law ?
: >That is not what is going to happen in Alabama. They are going to BAN, by
: >legislative fiat, a breed of animals that they know very little about.
Shame, Alabama was on my list of potential places to go live.
: I realize they are going to ban hybrids on paper. But how are they going to
: enforce it, when it comes right down to it? I do not think there is yet a
: scientifically proven test to infallibly distinguish a hybrid from a dog from
: a wolf. (Though they are working on one) So there is no way to PROVE an
: animal's ancestry one way or another. And I don't think that Americans
: will stand for police rounding up all puppies that have pointed ears
: and bushy tails, and forcibly sterilizing them/liquidating them because
: they are under suspicion of being hybrids....? There'd be an
: insurrection.
Exactly.... a couple of years back, amidst a righteous frenzy caused by a
few dogs attacking children, the British government passed the 'Dangerous
Dogs Act', which banned Pit Bulls and various other breeds of dog. It was
rushed though Parliament under media pressure, despite all these points
being raised, and passed in a blaze of publicity.
Now the police are having to pay tens of millions of dollars a year to
keep 'suspected' dangerous dogs in kennels while they attempt to prove
that they are actually one of the breeds that were banned. But there's no
legal definition of 'Pit Bull' or any other of the banned breeds, and the
entire situation is just laughable. Like I said, all these objections were
raised before the law was passed, but in their hurry to be 'seen to be
doing something' about the awful problem of dog attacks, the government
completely ignored them. Hey, it's only a few tens of millions of dollars
a year, they can just increase taxes to avoid having to admit that they
made yet another stupid mistake.
: Sure, the trade will have to go underground but it will continue, because
: there is a big demand for hybrids and people are willing to fill the demand.
Yep, same over here with big cats. Thanks to the ill-thought-out attempts
to 'control' the 'problem', there's now absolutely no way of doing so.
: That is why I said I didn't think the people in Alabama need to worry that
: their hobby will be stamped out. At worst they will have to buy animals out
: of state and smuggle them in, etc. Falsification of papers for convenience
: is really common in the wolf hybrid trade, as far as I have ever heard.
Oh great, being turned into a criminal just in order to pretend that a
dumb law could possibly work.... oh well, nothing new about that I guess.
Mark
Mark Grant
: ARMSTRONG, SUSAN (s_a...@pavo.concordia.ca) wrote:
[ Actually, somebody else said the following, sorry for messing up the
attribution ]
: : >>This idea of registering hybrids is thought by many people (far more
mlkeif...@gmail.com
and I agree that information is key and I really
wish people wouldn't breed them.
I have been a great lover of wolves my entire life. I read everything I could find about them and
watched every documentary on them. They are
simply majestic creatures and do not compare to
the domestic dog.
I was twenty four years old when I got my first
dog. She was a malamute and it was love at
first sight. She lived to be sixteen years old.
It truly broke my heart when she died. After
awhile I got another dog. I have actually had
three Siberian Huskies since her, but none of
my dogs compared to my wolf hybrid.
I got to where I was unable to work. After quite some time of recovery I was looking at the paper for a dog. I came across an ad for wolf hybrids. I called the number and was very happy to hear that I could go and see them. Most of the puppies were jumping around and acting like normal puppies. However, there was one lying beside an adult just watching me. I asked to see her. She was seven weeks old and so beautiful. The parents were also on the property. The sire was a huge Timber Wolf and the dame was a Siberian Husky/Arctic Wolf Hybrid. I took my puppy home that day.
We immediately got to work on our play time so she would know that I was the alpha. I already lived out in the country and my land was chain-link fenced. I bought an extra large crate for inside the house and took the door off so she would have a den inside. When she got a little bigger she made a den outside.
My grand children were very small when I got her so she knew they were part of our pack. She especially loved my granddaughter. Any time she got out of the bathtub she would rub her scent all over her again.
Although she has never bitten anyone, she has always been very protective of me and the best guard "dog" I have ever had.
Thanks to my extensive knowledge of wolves, knowing what she needs to eat to thrive and knowing she's not a dog, she just had her 13th birthday. She has been such a great joy to me, almost like kindred spirits. Even so, I had her spayed. I don't believe wolves should be pets. They are meant to be wild. I only got her because I knew how and was able to care for her. I only wish that anyone that is considering getting a wolf hybrid, PLEASE educate yourself on wolves first. They require so much more time than a dog, much more space, fresh meat every day and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
joshua.w...@gmail.com
And honestly I agree with your opinion that wolves are majestic creatures. That is probably why there is such a huge for them. People love the idea of having a wolf or half wolf around.
And yes, people do need to read up and get more info first. That is how accidents can be avoided.
I hope to hear back from you over emails. And I hope you can teach me about the best ways to take care of a wolf hybrid, because I hope that when I do get one that it lives to be as old as both of yours have.
Joshua.