wolfdogs & cats??
Mike and Debbie
I have 2 wolfdogs - a 2 yr old female who is 90+%, and a 4 year old male
who is about 40% or so.
I found the male when he was 2 years old, and I think he must have grown
up with cats, because he really seems to like them a lot. The female
has never been around cats.
This week, my husband got a 6 month old kitten. I am able to put my
male wd and the kitten in the same room. The male wd wants to play with
the kitten, even wants to lick the kitty (like he thinks it's a puppy!)
However, I believe my female wants to eat the kitten. Holding her back,
telling her no, no bite, etc, we wanted to see what her reaction to was
the kitten. She was totally hyper, wanted to grab the cat with her
mouth. Even had my husbands arm in her mouth thinking it was the cat.
Also, this female wd is quite the hunter - she catches birds, rats,
possums, even has caught a racoon.
I am guessing that her prey instinct may be too strong that I can never
expect her to behave around the cat. Or, has anyone successfully
trained their wd to not attack the cat when that is their initial
reaction?
I was thinking of getting a muzzle for her, so that I could have them in
the same room. This would only be for an hour or so a day. Otherwise,
guess I will just have to keep them seperated, which is not really a
problem, as long as there are no accidental meetings.
Please let me know what you have experienced. Thanks!
John Buehler
The natural wild instinct of an animal that is any part wolf is too great
for you to assume that you can overcome that instinct. Putting a muzzle on
the animal is not only unkind, but you will frustrate the animals and
probably cause resentment as he/she will not understand He/she will still
try to reach the kitten which will only cause the kitten to probably strike
out in self defence. And it may trigger a reaction from the other wolf to
protect that which he thinks is his. Wolves are extremely smart. And in
order to live happily with one (any % wolf) you must learn to respect what
they are and live accordingly. Problems such as yours, and worse problems,
are the reasons that so many wolves and wolf/dogs end up being neglected,
abused, discarded to the wild where they can not survive, or to sanctuaries
where they are condemned to spend their life in confinement. You can not
kindly and naturally teach a child not to play or eat. You can not teach an
animal to be something he is not. If these animals are raised with people
from the time they are babies, your chances of overcoming some of their
traits are better, such as with the wd who likes the kitten. But, remember,
the Creator made all things with a specific purpose in mind. Each has it's
assigned place in this world. We have no right to decide that we have a
better plan and start trying to change the rules.
Embrace the Gentle Wind
WindSpirit Wolf
Donna
I have introduced 4 cats to my 3 wolfdogs. When introducing kittens to
adult wolfdogs, this has to be a gradual introduction. Your animals have
to know to respect you as alpha and submiss and obey every "no" you tell
them, or their instinct is too strong or you have not established this
position. I did not allow the dogs mouth to touch the cats when I
brought them around for inspection. This introduction was always
supervised with each cat in my lap for a few minutes a day.
Corrections have to be given the dogs every time a "prey look" was
shown. Positive reinforcement with praise was given every time they
behaved. Do not use food rewards--it will associate the cat with a
treat. Eventually the dogs were allowed to sniff the cat gently. I put
the cats in the main room in a large pet crate all the rest of the time
so they all got used to its scent and being around. This took months to
achieve for me, but gradually they accepted the cats as part of the
family when I eventually let them out for longer periods of time around
the animals. Never allow your animals to chase the cats. I had stopped
this with a neckhold shake and a good verbal scolding -do not do the
neck hold shake if your wolfdog is not used to it. You should watch your
cats around feeding time for the dogs. I would suggest a separate area
or remove the cat. I do not have any problems with it, but others might.
Total time it took was 3 months for each cat, and they all got along
well at that time forward. If it does not work for you, it is best to
keep the cat separate from the prey-chaser or find another home for the
cat.
Mike and Debbie
"The natural wild instinct of an animal that is any part wolf is too great
for you to assume that you can overcome that instinct."
Yes, that is what I thought. As to the rest of your post about being neglected,
abused, etc, in no way applies to my situation. I am not an uneducated wolf dog
owner. I've belonged to a couple of wolfdog lists, and try to always learn as
much as I can about them. I have had mine for 2 years, and they are well
behaved, friendly, very socialized, treated very well, even spoiled.
I was just wondering about considering a muzzle, to introduce them, to see if
they would get along, making it easier than trying to hold a clawing kitty with
one hand and a whining wolfdog with the other. Instead, I guessI will just
close the bedroom door when the dogs are in the house in the
afternoons/evenings.
John Buehler wrote:
> The natural wild instinct of an animal that is any part wolf is too great
> for you to assume that you can overcome that instinct. Putting a muzzle on
> the animal is not only unkind, but you will frustrate the animals and
> probably cause resentment as he/she will not understand He/she will still
> try to reach the kitten which will only cause the kitten to probably strike
> out in self defence. And it may trigger a reaction from the other wolf to
> protect that which he thinks is his. Wolves are extremely smart. And in
> order to live happily with one (any % wolf) you must learn to respect what
> they are and live accordingly. Problems such as yours, and worse problems,
> are the reasons that so many wolves and wolf/dogs end up being neglected,
> abused, discarded to the wild where they can not survive, or to sanctuaries
> where they are condemned to spend their life in confinement. You can not
> kindly and naturally teach a child not to play or eat. You can not teach an
> animal to be something he is not. If these animals are raised with people
> from the time they are babies, your chances of overcoming some of their
> traits are better, such as with the wd who likes the kitten. But, remember,
> the Creator made all things with a specific purpose in mind. Each has it's
> assigned place in this world. We have no right to decide that we have a
> better plan and start trying to change the rules.
> Embrace the Gentle Wind
> WindSpirit Wolf
>
Mike and Debbie
that is great to hear there is at least a possibility! (I just left another
post feeling resigned that it wasn't).
I will try what you did and see how that works. No matter how great they get
along when I am in the room, I don't think I'd ever, ever leave them together
unattended.
My female wd is such a sneak, that I tell her to do something, and she will do
it for as long as I am in the room. The minute I walk away, there she is in
the garbage again, etc.
Thanks for your info.
Donna wrote:
Donna
I thought I would never leave my animals alone in the house, or let
alone with the cats in the beginning, but that all changed with
modifying their behavior.
My higher % was like yours, wanting a taste of the furball. Now one cat
is her own "special" pet kitty and are best buddies for 4 years now. My
male adopted a lost black kitten on the road and brought it home. He
shared his food with him, and treated it as if he was its mother.The
other female (mid high%)loves one cat groom her at night and she gets
along great with the cats. The wolfdogs and cats often slept curled up
next to each other. Sadly, I lost two of the cats to outside people or
wild animals in our woods, and the other two are now permanent house
cats. I left them alone IN the home alone without worry.It was people
who shoot cats, and those coyotes, foxes, bears and feral dogs outside
the home I did't trust.
It is possible you can modify most behavior to fit your needs in many
cases, depending if you put in all the work and time needed with the
right methods for each dog. Best of luck if you try it out.
Donald D. Lewis
VERY nice post! I, too, have used the exact same methods, and it DOES
work! Also, bear in mind that you are 'alpha', and 'kitty' is your
offspring.....get the picture?
Getting the 'beta' or more dominate of your WDs to adopt 'kitty' as
their own, also helps!
--
Donald
|\ /|
/| \_/_| *Brother to the Wolf*
__--|\_/ _\
/_ (o \______ "Go in Peace, my brothers, for we howl tonight...,
/_ / \/ Hear the cries of my brothers and I,
/_ | -.___ / For it is filled with the Wisdom of the Ages,
/__ \ ------' And with this Wisdom comes our Strength,
\ // Be strong, my brothers, for Destiny is at Hand,
_/ And we shall rule again!"
__/_/
Siwel D. Dlanod
http://www.inetdesign.com/wolfdunn/donald2.html
http://www.inetdesign.com/wolfdunn/donald1.html
Edward & Katrina Hansen
Nice Post Donna! It's so nice to see informative, helpful information to a
sometimes desperate question, not the usual berating that some commonly
unleash on the questioners.
I have two
wolfdog/hybrid/wolf-hybrid/furry-canine-creatures-of-wild-origin/enter-most-
recent-politically-correct-term-here and they both get aong with my cat
great. The cat was about 6 months old when we got the
pups/cubs/small-furry-animals. Initialy, the pups/cubs were fearful of the
cat, but slowly the cat's larger size diminished in relation to the
pups/cubs getting bigger, and all three would play together, If ever the
pups/cubs moved on, the cat would run and jump on theri backs to get them to
play more. If ever the family and the dogs are out in the yard, the cat
will meow and meow until we let her out too. They are all older now, and the
cat can't exactly "hang with the big dogs" anymore, but that's not a
problem. The "dogs" run up to the cat when he strolls out into the yard,
get him good and dog-saliva smelling, (much to the clean-freak-cat's
displeasure) and find something bigger to play with, each other, or lay in
the shade.
Now I have a quick question.........By your posting, one assumes that your
method works good with cat's, what about other animals such as another dog,
or horses, etc...... You'd have to change the style a bit, (You might
encounter trouble getting the horse into a crate in the living room.) I ask
this question objectivly. Oh, and about the horse example, I don't have a
horse, but someone else reading this probably does.
Thank-you for your time.
Ed Han...@pcisys.net
Donna wrote in message <357FDF...@ptd.net>...
John Buehler
My wolfdog always got along fine with my horses, Of course Cochise was a pup of
only 9 weeks when we first introduced him to horses. The horses had no problem
with hm unless he tried nipping at their heels. The big gelding had been bitten
in the past by a neighbor's dog and his impulse was to turn and agressivly paw
at the pup. So we started with a leash for Cochise and halter and lead for
Sugar Boy (the gelding). Just slowly taking Cochise to the barn each time we
went to feed. Holding him in our arms when we dropped the feed which allowed
the horses to see he was 'with us' at their level, and letting the horses smell
him while in our arms which also eased his fear and instinct to nip. It really
didn't take long until they ignored him, so then we started the same process
with Cochise on the ground...not allowing him to bark or be aggressive in any
way. And when Sugar Boy wanted to turn and be aggressive we re-inforced the
'stand' command he had been trained with. It really didn't take that long for
them to accept each other. Sugar Boy, however, did not tolerate any other dog
in his pasture except for Cochise. And even then Cochise did not go without one
of us. In fact Cochise was not allowed away from the yard at all without one of
us. We only have 7 1/2 acres and had we given him free rein, he would have
wandered into the surrounding areas where not everyone cared for his breed.
Those myths again! You know....the ones about wild, blood thirsty, man hunters
and livestock killers!!!! They trusted him with us, but were convinced that he
would be dangerous out in the open alone. So he stayed within the confines of
our home and yard unless we took him. Gradually, the horses became so
accustomed to him being at the barn, that when we lost him 2 years ago, they
would come to the fence and look for him, especially at feeding time.
Our method was trial and error but worked for us. I do not have any formal
training introducing animals to each other except for horse to horse, dog to
dog, dog to cat. Beyond that I guess alot of it has to do with the individual
personality of the animal........and alot of mistakes before you figure it out.
What ever works for you is the 'right way'.
WindSpirit Wolf
Nita
gotta put my .02 cents worth in! Basically (next for making allowance for
different types of animals),(ie: horse not fitting in crate), it works with
all animals I have used this method with(cats,chickens,a goose, cow, and
ferret). With other dogs though I've found if my guys (5) won't accept
them from the first, I try to make another meeting in a safe zone,(not on
what my 2wolfdogs think is their territory), and that has worked extremely
well for me N.J
Edward & Katrina Hansen <han...@pcisys.net> wrote in article
<6lu1ec$rq7$1...@newman.pcisys.net>...
Mike and Debbie
When letting the cat get to know my male, the one who likes cats, my female, who
hates to be seperated from her mate in the first place, gets totally agitated.
She may be jealous....any dog who even looks at my male gets an earful from her!
tammy parker
sounds like my house cats (black) and wolves everywhere:)
Donna
Donald D. Lewis wrote:
(snip)
> Getting the 'beta' or more dominate of your WDs to adopt 'kitty' as
> their own, also helps!
> Donald
Yes, thanks for bringing this up. This did happen, in fact one of my
mid-% male brought one kitten home that was dumped on our road. He
encouraged it to follow us. He immediately accepted this black kitten as
his own "pup". My male shared his food bowl with the kitten and they
were inseparable. It was the other wolfdogs who needed gradual
adjustment.
Another older kitten we adopted was immediately accepted by the beta
female high % as her own. It had also developed a very strong bond with
the rest of the wolfdogs with gradual adjustment.
The oldest cat was an adult when the wolfdogs and dogs as pups were
introduced, and it was the respected diciplinarian of the pack when they
misbehaved, ignoring my commands. He would sit in line for his "cookie"
treat with the rest of the animals as the alpha animal in the house. He
has mellowed out some over the years, a relief to the pack.
Another rescued, declawed, 25 lb. day-blind fat-cat was introduced
gradually to all the animals. He would have no defense of claws if the
animals got too mouthy. They adjusted well with Perry. He was allowed to
visit the newborn pups at any time, when none of the dogs were allowed
near them by the mother. This cat slept with the wolfdogs along with 2
other cats.
The alpha dog of the pack accepted all the cats and kittens with no
problems, but did not play or interact with them either. They were
accepted by her like a shadow. They "existed".
Each wolfdog may take each new cat differently. It was strange when two
of the cats were "instant" great buddies to two of them, when other cats
weren't at first.
--Donna
Donna
Edward & Katrina Hansen wrote:
>
One of my cats does not mind the "wethead" after the kisses and slobbers
from the wolfdogs. I suppose the feeling is mutual as they swap spit on
each other's fur, as the cat does his share of licking/grooming on the
dogs as well.
I have not owned a horse and wolfdogs at the same time, butI would
think same principles apply with gradual introduction with praise if it
shows no bad gestures, and if you are already the alpha, dicipline or a
correction on the wolfdog if a bite or attack looks likely (a smart
horse can give its own harsher dicipline with a swift kick- but that may
kill the animal ---so avoid waiting for the attack- read your wolfdog's
expressions and know them well.)
I would always use a training collar that has worked before on the
animal successfully and have the horse tied up.(outside of course, not
in the livingroom).. Starting at long distances works best, and
gradually work closer to the horse each day, giving time overnite for
the dog to asorb what it has experienced that day before moving closer.
It is recommended in studies that a dog learns and retains his memory
better if done before he has his longest sleep. This may help the horse
get used to the wolfdog as well.
After this introduction is accepted by both animals, I would have
someone walk the horse while someone walks the wolfdog next to it,
starting a bit further away and working up to it's side in a walk. Short
bursts in a trot would gradually be introduced. If this was working
well, then the next step would be getting on the horse and leashing the
dog in a walk to a trot. Many horse enthusists envision riding with
their dog beside them, but off lead, this usually takes advanced
obedience off-lead training classes.
I would also never feed my animals horsemeat if I was planning to
introduce a horse to them. I do not feed my wolfdogs deer meat either
because I never wanted them thinking "meal on the hoof" every time deer
come in the yard. They work off lead and we have run into them face to
face often. They never chase them because of collar correction/ verbal
praise training and they do not relate to them as a food source for
meat--a food wolfdogs love more than doggie biscuits. Now getting a
horse used to wolfdogs if never introduced to canines before, I cannot
answer too well, it is probably better to ask a horse behavioralist who
knows them better than I do.
Anna Wolf
At one time we had several wolfdogs--they died of old age, so now we
have a Mexican Timber Wolf...anyway, when we introduced 2 kittens to the
group, we kept the kittens(and bed & catbox) in a large cage for evening get
togethers.
Whenever any of the wolfdogs stared at the kittens(the "prey-look" Donna
mentioned in an earlier post), they were told strongly to stop (NO!)--not
hysterically told, of course, just a stern "NO!"
After about a week the wolfdogs and the kittens were used to each
others' scent and seemed to have forgotten when the kittens hadn't been
there.
We let the kittens out; curiosity took over between the 2 species. In
fact, we had to make the kittens leave the wolfdogs alone, learn to respect
their boundaries too.
It worked to put them together in the same space during family time. I
think they just needed to get over the strangeness of the new members of the
family.
Anna Wolf
Anna Wolf
Donna,
Your post below is great. If only all wolf/wolfdog owners were as
knowing as you are about their pets!
Some purists feel it is wrong to cross domestic dogs with wolves, but it
has been a way for those who adopt the hybrid to discover that our human
mythology about wolves being evil is totally and deservedly FALSE. Without
my 1st wolfdog, years ago--Hannah--I would still be biased against them, I
believe.
Earning their friendship is a blessing, and a glimpse into what a wild
spirit really is: beautiful and magnificent, and also generous.
Anna Wolf
Donna wrote in message <3584AB...@ptd.net>...
Mike and Debbie
My low % and the kitten seem to really be getting along. Kitty let him lick
her face, rubbed up against him. He really loves cats, is very maternal.
You should have seen him with the puppies, sitting in the whelping box
guarding over them.
It's the high% female that wants to eat the cat. She is spoiled and whiny,
and is alpha, beta, and everything else over the male. She just whines, and
he lets her have her way every time. So him getting along with the cat will
not influence her in the least.
I did try a muzzle on her for a few minutes, with her resting her head in my
lap and the kitten in my lap also. She made a few lunges, I just kept
telling her "no bite", but without the muzzle, that cat would have been
dinner.
I have been able to train the two wolfdogs to "share". I'll take a snack
they both really love, make them sit in front of me, and only when I say
their name, do they get that bite. Even if the snack is in front of their
nose, 95% of the time, they won't try to take it out of turn.
So, she is not completely hopeless as far as resisting temptation, but this
is going to take some time.
Anna Wolf
I've seen pure wolves in movies. I won't try to list those movies.
Anna Wolf
sgenter wrote in message <01bd9943$b61c2bc0$db8f1bce@s-g>...
>Have you tried experiencing a Malamute, I have experienced the same thing
>that you are saying in your post about wolf-dogs These dogs are pack
>animals and most Northern breeds are like this. They are not like Poodles
>or Cockers. The Malamutes is what is used in Movies that everyone thinks
>is wolves, because they act so much like wolves. Sandy
>
>Donna <lobo...@ptd.net> wrote in article <3585E7...@ptd.net>...
>> I agree with you about understanding the truth by experiencing it and
>> the misconceptions brought on by myths.
>>
>> I always thought a "wild spirit" in a dog was a more natural dog, more
>> intelligent, capable of problem solving and creating entertainment, more
>> caring for their young, more appologetic when misbehaving, a
>> never-ending curiousity, more playful as adults, and more aware of its
>> surroundings than the average dog.(I am describing my own animals here)
>> If this is a discription of what is in a wolfdog, then humans themselves
>> could use a little more "wild spirit".
sgenter
Dances with Wolves had a pure wolf in it. The other movies had Malamutes,
they are Nanny Gan, Call of the Wild, White Fang. One of the movies of
Call of Wild used German Shepards, as wolves. Sandy
Anna Wolf <anna...@msn.com> wrote in article
<#$aRorlm9GA.197@upnetnews05>...
Kenneth J. De Nault
I believe there were wolves in Disney's White Fang. I think they were from a
"Bear Park" in the Black Hills
s
Clois or Thea Beckwith, Jr
Jed the Wolf Dog was in the first White Fang and Natty Gann he was a 50/50 cross
wolf dog malmute with a touch of shepherd. White Fang 2 was supposedly one of
his offspring or related to him.
Thea
PhantmWlf
Thea,
I remember when Jed the wolfdog passed on, there was a whole page dedicated to
him in the Hollywood Reporter. White Fang II actually used a few different
animals, including Cody, who was bred by Carl Koehler.
And just for the record, Jungle Book II: Mowgli and Balloo definitely used
wolfdogs. :)
Nicole
"I would rather be a seeker than congratulate myself on what little I have
learned."
- G. Karpinski, Where
Two Worlds Touch
Wolfwmn48
In article <358A7FCB...@flash.net>, "Clois or Thea Beckwith, Jr" As far
as I know, Jed was a 25%er wolfdog cross, not 50/50.
Pegasus
Hmmm, according to what Jed's owner and trainer, Clint Rowe, told me, Jed
was only 25% wolf, and was about 13 years old when the first White Fang movie was
made.
He was looking for a replacement for Jed and told me 50% was too high to
train like he had trained Jed. I disagreed with him, but Clint knew exactly what he
was looking for. I didn't have it.
Pegasus
Clois or Thea Beckwith, Jr wrote:
> Jed the Wolf Dog was in the first White Fang and Natty Gann he was a 50/50 cross
> wolf dog malmute with a touch of shepherd. White Fang 2 was supposedly one of
> his offspring or related to him.
> Thea
>
PhantmWlf
Pegasus,
You're right, Jed was 25%. We did an exotic pet fair with Clint recently. He
had with him a wolfdog billed as "White Fang" for the day, though it was a
female. She was very well socialized and sweet.