The Art of War by Sun Tzu
C.V. Compton Shaw
factors which,in my opinion,were decisive with regard to the eventual
victory of North Vietnam. It, is,also, clear to me that the North
Vietnamese followed many of the military principles in this book while
our own political and military commanders did not. Some of the most
important precepts in this book which relate to the war are::"There are
three ways in which a ruler can bring misfortune upon his army (1)By
commanding the army to advance or to retreat,being ignorant of the fact
that it cannot obey.(2)By attempting to govern an army in the same way
as he administers a kingdom,being ignorant of the conditions which
obtain in an army.This causes restlessness in the soldiers heads. (3) By
employing the officers of his army without discrimination,through
ignorance of the military principle of adaptation to circumstances.This
shakes the confidence of the soldiers."
Further, with regard to military victory he states:"Thus we may know
that there are five essentials for victory: (1) He will win who knows
when to fight and when not to fight. (2) He will win who knows how to
handle both superior and inferior forces
(3) He will win whose army is animated by the same spirit throughout its
ranks
(4) He will win who,prepared himself,waits to take the enemy unprepared
95) He will win who has military capacity and is not interfered with by
the sovereign."
It is unnecessary to relate the above to the events surrounding the war
in Vietnam.However, I hope that both our military and political leaders
have learned from the failure of an allied victory in Vietnam that the
aforementioned military principles are requisite for victory in future
wars.
Mr. C.V. Compton Shaw; U.S. Army;4th Inf. Div.;2/8th Inf.;RVN 1969-1970
Charles G. White
> Mr. C.V. Compton Shaw; U.S. Army;4th Inf. Div.;2/8th Inf.;RVN 1969-1970
Dear Mr. Shaw, you can address me as plain 'ole Charles. You don't have to
precede the name with a Lt., Mr., or Esq. The other other men on this site
also are addressed by their first names. Eisenhauer was addressed by
civilians as "Ike." For God's sake, PLEASE tell us why you always are a
"MR." on this site.
P.S. I assume that most of us have read Sun Tzu at least once in our life
time. I am confident that our commanders likewise had read the book at
least once. HOEVER, even those damned Tzu rules don't always work.
pmartin
some long dead Chinese General, of who I never bothered
with.Only some read him and the "Turner Diaries."
Officer types. You can learn more from the 3s of Mao
and George Washington. If your into something you never
will have control of.
More people wear a dead race car drivers hat then
read of a long dead Chinaman.
Just recall " All is Quiet on the Western Front."
How to start a fire in rain, good boots.......all the important
things like a clean rifle, in the morning remove the first round
due to moisture. Find your own equipment, FOOD !
" How did we end up in this ?" "Why am I here?"
" Want to see Hell, look around THAT tree line."
I just know he never fell 3,500' AGL on to
a concrete airstrip. He knew nothing of an autorotation.
Zoo did not know Shit . My Commander DID .
Proof, me I am alive. Remember all that great knowledge
from a poet of WW I ? Robert Service. After all he
was there in the middle of it and lost his brother KIA.
Theory vs. Knowledge.....I take earned knowledge
and ways to fight a war. Learn from those around you
and trust only them
.
I was no General. In what war was this China man in ?
I don't know, and it would not help my butt fighting in a
bomb crater surrounded and you just know the end is
here. Bam down comes a Huey and saves my life.
SPADS burn them up like toast.
Like I said, I'm no high ass General, just a guy trying
to see one more day. Trouble is I liked the damn place.
Gets in your blood. My theory, don't let it get in yours.
You get hurt bad that way.
No Government has the brains to learn a thing, never
has, never will. China said it wants a war. Nothing we
can do about it. War is no art, its a SNAFU.
Yes, " The SNAFU of War." by any hot head with
an Army. Murphy's Law ? Luck means more then Theory.
The past sure is a long list, think of all the names
Ghengas Khan, Caesar, Napoleon.....bet they are in the
thousands. What in Sam hell did any get out of it.
Just wait for the next one, that will be a wizzer.
I do not think Ho or that other Gen.Giap knew a thing.
They killed off all the young men, and still that Country
is a mess. Wait until all the Rain Forest is gone. Talk of
floods to come ! Hell of lot more will die from disease
from bad water. Just a matter of time. Hope they get
Cholera shots.Learn Sanitation methods.
So, in the long run, we out waited them and will win.
Thing is, few seem to realize it.
By JP Martin, just a nobody who got hit a few times.
I think all Generals go to Hell, and the nobody's go
to Heaven.
C.V. Compton Shaw <mis...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:3B22D78E...@swbell.net...
Charles G. White
"pmartin" wrote in message
news:_oKU6.10002$Rq4.2...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Bill Langston
Prim & Proper Shaw posted. While I understand what you are saying with your
very last line being the best, I can see some of the answers to your
objections within the Sun Tzu quotes. I've clipped and pasted it below with
your words at the bottom. Notice the last words that tell a ruler *not* to
interfere with the decisions of the 'Army'. Essentially he is saying that it
is the soldiers are the one's that 'know' what to do and the ruler must not
command them to do otherwise from afar. Unless I've missed it big time,
that's how I see it. I know I've simplified it quite a bit and might have
missed some 'essential' truth that you know of that I do not.
SF
BL
<Some of the most
<important precepts in this book which relate to the war are::"There are
<three ways in which a ruler can bring misfortune upon his army (1)By
<commanding the army to advance or to retreat,being ignorant of the fact
<that it cannot obey.(2)By attempting to govern an army in the same way
<as he administers a kingdom,being ignorant of the conditions which
<obtain in an army.This causes restlessness in the soldiers heads. (3) By
<employing the officers of his army without discrimination,through
<ignorance of the military principle of adaptation to circumstances.This
<shakes the confidence of the soldiers."
<Further, with regard to military victory he states:"Thus we may know
<that there are five essentials for victory: (1) He will win who knows
<when to fight and when not to fight. (2) He will win who knows how to
<handle both superior and inferior forces
<(3) He will win whose army is animated by the same spirit throughout its
<ranks
<(4) He will win who,prepared himself,waits to take the enemy unprepared
<95) He will win who has military capacity and is not interfered with by
<the sovereign."
"pmartin" <pma...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:_oKU6.10002$Rq4.2...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Charles G. White
> John, I think you and Charlie White are missing the tidbits of 'truth' Mr.
> Prim & Proper Shaw posted. While I understand what you are saying with
your
> very last line being the best, I can see some of the answers to your
> objections within the Sun Tzu quotes.
Dear "Mr." Bill, I have been reading Sun Tzu at least once per year. A lot
of the principles are adaptable to every aspect of life. However, I can't
say that it has caused me to win any cases. <g>
Yours truly "Mr." White <g>
Bob (RS)
Phildo?
Bob
On Sun, 10 Jun 2001 14:13:21 -0500, "Bill Langston" <l...@cei.net>
wrote:
Patrick Hughes
wrote:
John,
You really ought to sit down and read a couple of his homalies or
whatever they are called. I read a little here and there before going
into particularly nasty meetings. I am not saying it works, but it
does relax me if I can't get to a beer.
pmartin
rulers ? Caesar ? Gen. to Emperor, Napoleon did crown
himself. Heaven knows of the Khan. One thing in common ,
I do not think they suffered long hair hippies lightly.
The Troops loved them all as did their own People and
I think the VA Benefits were much better. I think an Army must
Pillage and Loot, saves the Taxpayers money.
For real. It was a good way to make a buck, even the British
divided Booty up according to rank in the 18th Century.
It was much better before that for the troops.
All Countries fall apart anyway, I think in all History only
Siam stayed steady all this known time. I may be wrong, I just
recall it from someplace.
Caesar did give his Centurions Land and Slaves to work that
land if they became disabled. Beats a VA check...
George Washington gave the Ohio River Valley to the troops.
They and the British also did get a pension.
The British gave the men from Water Loo and the War
of 1812 the Concession Lands in Upper Canada,Orrilia, Ont.
Italy is doing well, I see the British are here yet. The U.S. is
better than all ? Clinton-Gore were Chinese and messed this place up.
I guess Mongolia blew it. Chinese leadership
and its great thinkers of War Philosophy ? All they got is a
long stupid wall. I would not want it in my back yard. Too big
and I bet a buck its falling apart anyway.
In fact the 2nd MACV Patch is a Sword going through
the Great Wall of China. That's its meaning. The U.S. to
invade it. How, I've no idea other than use Nukes.
Not a bad idea to me, get it over with now. Why wait.
It should of been done in the '40s or'50s anyway.
Good old fashioned American Hegemony... whatever that means.
Bill Langston <l...@cei.net> wrote in message
news:2EPU6.118$7s3.21...@typhoon.cei.net...
pmartin
my Fodder. I'd rather watch the grass grow.
Bob (RS) <Damy...@eathlnk.net> wrote in message
news:vsn7itshajthtcmkf...@4ax.com...
Patrick Hughes
wrote:
So I guess you don't have much truck with Confucious either heh? I
see your point, mine was that it was interesting reading for certain
situations. If I remember right, he was a war lord. Now those guys
had it good!
Bill Langston
SF
BL
"Charles G. White" <whit...@amaonline.com> wrote in message
news:zLQU6.598$I24....@newsfeed.slurp.net...
pmartin
Bill Langston <l...@cei.net> wrote in message
news:61YU6.122$x14.24...@typhoon.cei.net...