Operational Commands
Gregory G. Petersen
This is the easiest way to distinguish between Naval Personnel ashore (brown water included) and off the Coast. Even the new FMF ribbon does not require the level of involvement that the little device that we wear on the RVN service medal requires. This is straight from the SECNAV manual and is very simple:
Fleet Marine Force Combat Operation Insignia is a miniature bronze Marine
Corps emblem and is authorized for Navy
personnel who have served on duty with and have been attached to FMF
units in active combat with an armed enemy
beginning with World War II. The Insignia will be worn centered on the
suspension ribbon and ribbon bar of World War II
area campaign medals, Korean Service Medal, Armed Forces Expeditionary
Medal, Vietnam Service Medal, Southwest
Asia Service Medal and upon approval of SECNAV, on other appropriate medals
authorized for any future wars, conflicts
or insurrections. This authorization applies to Navy personnel attached
to and operating with FMF units, and Navy
personnel attached to Navy units operating with FMF units and under FMF
operational control. Attachment to or
operations with a Marine unit is not sufficient to establish eligibility
for this insignia. The Marine unit must be or have been
engaged in actual combat action during the period of the individual's service
with the unit.
To bad you cannot post graphics here but the emblem is about the size of the bronze star for the RVN medal. In that article that you forwarded me about "The Naval Command in South Vietnam" it made it clear the "I Corp" and the II through IV Corps were part of NSA Saigon and an entire different command structure -- NSA Da Nang was "under the operational control of Commander III Marine Amphibious Force" as is made clear in what you sent:
In contrast to the carrier, amphibious, and naval gunfire support forces and, at least during early 1965, the coastal patrol force, which Commander Seventh Fleet directed, the Navy's forces within South Vietnam were operationally controlled by COMUSMACV. Initially, General William C. Westmoreland exercised this command through the Chief, Naval Advisory Group. However, the increasing demands of the war required a distinct operational rather than an advisory headquarters for naval units. As a result, on 1 April 1966, Naval Forces, Vietnam, was established to control the Navy's units in the II, III, and IV Corps Tactical Zones. This eventually included the major combat formations: Coastal Surveillance Force (Task Force 115), River Patrol Force (Task Force 116), and Riverine Assault Force (Task Force 117). The latter unit formed the naval component of the joint Army-Navy Mobile Riverine Force. Commander Naval Forces, Vietnam (COMNAVFORV) also controlled the Naval Support Activity, Saigon, which supplied naval forces in the II, III, and IV Corps areas. Naval Support Activity (NSA), Danang, provided logistic support to all American forces in I Corps, where the predominant Marine presence demanded a naval supply establishment. NSA Danang was under the operational control of Commander III Marine Amphibious Force.Now for the 64 dollar question -- since I Corp was Marine land and the rest was COMNAVFORV and not III MAF so would they earn the device? Since they were not serving outside I Corp with Marine units I don't think so. Interesting question isn't it - particularly since NSA Saigon got a PUC and NSA Da Nang apparently did not.
Shed some light on that for me if you can. I really wish I could find a whole list of all PUC's and NUC's awarded.
Greg
Patrick T.
<gr...@LawNet.Com> wrote:
Greg,
I have been looking for that list too, and for quite a while I might
add. I am pretty sure you qualify for the PUC for III MAF, I have the
citation on my other machine and will send it off when I boot it up
later.
I have been told by my C.O. for 26th Marines that I have one comming
from that too, but I can't find the proof and have found out the hard
way the v.a. seems to slam the email concept of proof.
When I come down your way, I am bringing all my records so you can see
why this pisses me off so much. Got lots of this, and lots of that,
but the proof is allusive as hell.
Gregory G. Petersen
III MAF can be found. I know that the "patch" that we had then was a III MAF
patch but no one wore it.
Greg
"Patrick T." wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 08:57:15 GMT, "Gregory G. Petersen"
> <gr...@LawNet.Com> wrote:
>
> Greg,
> I have been looking for that list too, and for quite a while I might
> add. I am pretty sure you qualify for the PUC for III MAF, I have the
> citation on my other machine and will send it off when I boot it up
> later.
>
> I have been told by my C.O. for 26th Marines that I have one comming
> from that too, but I can't find the proof and have found out the hard
> way the v.a. seems to slam the email concept of proof.
>
> When I come down your way, I am bringing all my records so you can see
> why this pisses me off so much. Got lots of this, and lots of that,
> but the proof is allusive as hell.
> >
Gregory G. Petersen
the PUC. Not many sailors earned that considering the qualifications
requirements and only I CORP sailors qualified as I read the regulations --
not sailors south of there since they were not under the operational control
of the Marine Corp and reported to 7th Fleet or Army.
Interesting wrinkle on the insanity of medals and awards.
Greg
PS -- Scan me a copy of the III MAF PUC when you get a chance. A friend from
NSA Da Nang tried but could not scan it.
"Patrick T." wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 08:57:15 GMT, "Gregory G. Petersen"
> <gr...@LawNet.Com> wrote:
>
> Greg,
> I have been looking for that list too, and for quite a while I might
> add. I am pretty sure you qualify for the PUC for III MAF, I have the
> citation on my other machine and will send it off when I boot it up
> later.
>
> I have been told by my C.O. for 26th Marines that I have one comming
> from that too, but I can't find the proof and have found out the hard
> way the v.a. seems to slam the email concept of proof.
>
> When I come down your way, I am bringing all my records so you can see
> why this pisses me off so much. Got lots of this, and lots of that,
> but the proof is allusive as hell.
> >
Bill Langston
SFi
BL
"Gregory G. Petersen" <gr...@LawNet.Com> wrote in message
news:39F28140...@LawNet.Com...
begin 666 puc.gif
<encoded_portion_removed>
Keith Bean
Chief of Naval Operations
Awards and Special Projects Branch (Code N09B33)
2000 Navy Pentagon
Washington, D.C. 20350-2000SFDoc Keith Bean
"Gregory G. Petersen" <gr...@LawNet.Com> wrote in message news:39F15A3D...@LawNet.Com...
Patrick T.
wrote:
http://www.usni.org/navalhistory/NHwells.htm
I did a search on google for NO9B33 and got this, awarding the Car to
Naval prior to 1961. Have to run out the door, so can't search
anymore right now. If anyone finds anything interesting,. post it
please.
semper fi
>Here's an Addy that you can check out to see what units got what awards =
>and when. I couldn't find a web link for this.
> Chief of Naval Operations
> Awards and Special Projects Branch (Code N09B33)
> 2000 Navy Pentagon
> Washington, D.C. 20350-2000
>
> SF
> Doc Keith Bean
>
> "Gregory G. Petersen" <gr...@LawNet.Com> wrote in message =
>news:39F15A3D...@LawNet.Com...
> Patrick --=20
> This is the easiest way to distinguish between Naval Personnel =
>ashore (brown water included) and off the Coast. Even the new FMF =
>ribbon does not require the level of involvement that the little device =
>that we wear on the RVN service medal requires. This is straight from =
>the SECNAV manual and is very simple:=20
>
> Fleet Marine Force Combat Operation Insignia is a =
>miniature bronze Marine Corps emblem and is authorized for Navy=20
> personnel who have served on duty with and have been =
>attached to FMF units in active combat with an armed enemy=20
> beginning with World War II. The Insignia will be worn =
>centered on the suspension ribbon and ribbon bar of World War II=20
> area campaign medals, Korean Service Medal, Armed =
>Forces Expeditionary Medal, Vietnam Service Medal, Southwest=20
> Asia Service Medal and upon approval of SECNAV, on =
>other appropriate medals authorized for any future wars, conflicts=20
> or insurrections. This authorization applies to Navy =
>personnel attached to and operating with FMF units, and Navy=20
> personnel attached to Navy units operating with FMF =
>units and under FMF operational control. Attachment to or=20
> operations with a Marine unit is not sufficient to =
>establish eligibility for this insignia. The Marine unit must be or have =
>been=20
> engaged in actual combat action during the period of =
>the individual's service with the unit.=20
>
> To bad you cannot post graphics here but the emblem is about the =
>size of the bronze star for the RVN medal. In that article that you =
>forwarded me about "The Naval Command in South Vietnam" it made it clear =
>the "I Corp" and the II through IV Corps were part of NSA Saigon and an =
>entire different command structure -- NSA Da Nang was "under the =
>operational control of Commander III Marine Amphibious Force" as is made =
>clear in what you sent:=20
>
> In contrast to the carrier, amphibious, and naval gunfire support =
>forces and, at least during early 1965, the coastal patrol force, which =
>Commander Seventh Fleet directed, the Navy's forces within South Vietnam =
>were operationally controlled by COMUSMACV. Initially, General William =
>C. Westmoreland exercised this command through the Chief, Naval Advisory =
>Group. However, the increasing demands of the war required a distinct =
>operational rather than an advisory headquarters for naval units. As a =
>result, on 1 April 1966, Naval Forces, Vietnam, was established to =
>control the Navy's units in the II, III, and IV Corps Tactical Zones. =
>This eventually included the major combat formations: Coastal =
>Surveillance Force (Task Force 115), River Patrol Force (Task Force =
>116), and Riverine Assault Force (Task Force 117). The latter unit =
>formed the naval component of the joint Army-Navy Mobile Riverine Force. =
>Commander Naval Forces, Vietnam (COMNAVFORV) also controlled the Naval =
>Support Activity, Saigon, which supplied naval forces in the II, III, =
>and IV Corps areas. Naval Support Activity (NSA), Danang, provided =
>logistic support to all American forces in I Corps, where the =
>predominant Marine presence demanded a naval supply establishment. NSA =
>Danang was under the operational control of Commander III Marine =
>Amphibious Force.
> Now for the 64 dollar question -- since I Corp was Marine land and =
>the rest was COMNAVFORV and not III MAF so would they earn the device? =
>Since they were not serving outside I Corp with Marine units I don't =
>think so. Interesting question isn't it - particularly since NSA Saigon =
>got a PUC and NSA Da Nang apparently did not.=20
> Shed some light on that for me if you can. I really wish I could =
>find a whole list of all PUC's and NUC's awarded.=20
>
> Greg=20
> =20
>
>
>------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01C03C1D.2C0AD740
>Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
>http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
><META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>Here's a link to All Hands website that =
>has pics of=20
>all ribbons etc, there is a link that that shows pics of all those =
>little=20
>devices including the EGA device. It's not a very good pic but gives one =
>an idea=20
>of what it looks like anyway.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4><A=20
>href=3D"http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/allhands/ah0197/pg24-25.html"=
>>http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/allhands/ah0197/pg24-25.html</A></FO=
>NT></DIV>
><DIV> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>Here's an Addy that you can check out =
>to see what=20
>units got what awards and when. I couldn't find a web link for=20
>this.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>
><BLOCKQUOTE>
> <DIV><B>Chief of Naval Operations<BR>Awards and Special Projects =
>Branch (Code=20
> N09B33)<BR>2000 Navy Pentagon<BR>Washington, D.C. 20350-2000</B></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV><STRONG>SF</STRONG></DIV>
> <DIV><STRONG>Doc Keith =
>Bean<BR></DIV></STRONG></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></DIV>
><BLOCKQUOTE=20
>style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
>0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>"Gregory G. Petersen" <<A=20
> href=3D"mailto:gr...@LawNet.Com">gr...@LawNet.Com</A>> wrote in =
>message <A=20
> =
>href=3D"news:39F15A3D...@LawNet.Com">news:39F15A3D.1A5D6A99@LawNet.=
>Com</A>...</DIV>Patrick=20
> --=20
> <P> This is the easiest way to distinguish between =
>Naval=20
> Personnel ashore (brown water included) and off the Coast. Even =
>the new=20
> FMF ribbon does not require the level of involvement that the little =
>device=20
> that we wear on the RVN service medal requires. This is straight =
>from=20
> the SECNAV manual and is very simple:=20
> =
><P> &nbs=
>p; =20
> Fleet Marine Force Combat Operation Insignia is a miniature bronze =
>Marine=20
> Corps emblem and is authorized for <I>Navy</I>=20
> =
><BR><I> =
> =20
> personnel</I> who have served on duty with and have been attached to =
>FMF units=20
> in active combat with an armed enemy=20
> =
><BR> &nb=
>sp; =20
> beginning with World War II. The Insignia will be worn centered on the =
>
> suspension ribbon and ribbon bar of World War II=20
> =
><BR> &nb=
>sp; =20
> area campaign medals, Korean Service Medal, Armed Forces Expeditionary =
>Medal,=20
> <I>Vietnam Service Medal</I>, Southwest=20
> =
><BR> &nb=
>sp; =20
> Asia Service Medal and upon approval of SECNAV, on other appropriate =
>medals=20
> authorized for any future wars, conflicts=20
> =
><BR> &nb=
>sp; =20
> or insurrections. <I>This authorization applies to Navy personnel =
>attached to=20
> and operating with FMF units, and Navy</I>=20
> =
><BR><I> =
> =20
> personnel attached to Navy units operating with FMF units and under =
>FMF=20
> operational control.</I> Attachment to or=20
> =
><BR> &nb=
>sp; =20
> operations with a Marine unit is not sufficient to establish =
>eligibility for=20
> this insignia. The Marine unit must be or have been=20
> =
><BR> &nb=
>sp; =20
> engaged in actual combat action during the period of the individual's =
>service=20
> with the unit.=20
> <P> To bad you cannot post graphics here but the =
>emblem is=20
> about the size of the bronze star for the RVN medal. In that =
>article=20
> that you forwarded me about "The Naval Command in South Vietnam" it =
>made it=20
> clear the "I Corp" and the II through IV Corps were part of NSA Saigon =
>and an=20
> entire different command structure -- NSA Da Nang was "under the =
>operational=20
> control of Commander III Marine Amphibious Force" as is made clear in =
>what you=20
> sent:=20
> <BLOCKQUOTE>In contrast to the carrier, amphibious, and naval gunfire=20
> support forces and, at least during early 1965, the coastal patrol =
>force,=20
> which Commander Seventh Fleet directed, the Navy's forces within =
>South=20
> Vietnam were operationally controlled by COMUSMACV. Initially, =
>General=20
> William C. Westmoreland exercised this command through the Chief, =
>Naval=20
> Advisory Group. However, the increasing demands of the war required =
>a=20
> distinct operational rather than an advisory headquarters for naval =
>units.=20
> As a result, on 1 April 1966, Naval Forces, Vietnam, was established =
>to=20
> control the Navy's units in the II, III, and IV Corps Tactical =
>Zones. This=20
> eventually included the major combat formations: Coastal =
>Surveillance Force=20
> (Task Force 115), River Patrol Force (Task Force 116), and Riverine =
>Assault=20
> Force (Task Force 117). The latter unit formed the naval component =
>of the=20
> joint Army-Navy Mobile Riverine Force. Commander Naval Forces, =
>Vietnam=20
> (COMNAVFORV) also controlled the Naval Support Activity, Saigon, =
>which=20
> supplied naval forces in the II, III, and IV Corps areas. Naval =
>Support=20
> Activity (NSA), Danang, provided logistic support to all American =
>forces in=20
> I Corps, where the predominant Marine presence demanded a naval =
>supply=20
> establishment. NSA Danang was under the operational control of =
>Commander III=20
> Marine Amphibious Force.</BLOCKQUOTE> Now for the =
>64 dollar=20
> question -- since I Corp was Marine land and the rest was COMNAVFORV =
>and not=20
> III MAF so would they earn the device? Since they were not =
>serving=20
> outside I Corp with Marine units I don't think so. Interesting =
>question=20
> isn't it - particularly since NSA Saigon got a PUC and NSA Da Nang =
>apparently=20
> did not.=20
> <P> Shed some light on that for me if you can. =
>I=20
> really wish I could find a whole list of all PUC's and NUC's awarded.=20
> <P>Greg <BR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>
>------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01C03C1D.2C0AD740--
>
Patrick T.
T.) wrote:
RETROACTIVE COMBAT ACTION RIBBON ELIGIBILITY
FOR NAVAL VETERANS FROM 1941 TO 1961 ANNOUNCED
Navy and Marine Corps veterans who served in combat in or after World
War II are now eligible to receive the Combat Action Ribbon (CAR).
Secretary of the Navy Richard Danzig has recently authorized this
award for those who served in combat, but never received their CAR.
"At a time when we are focusing on the contributions of these great
Americans, this seems especially fitting, " said Danzig. In order to
be eligible for the CAR, veterans must have participated in ground or
surface combat after December 6, 1941, but before March 1, 1961, and
cannot already have been recognized for the same participation.
Under Public Law 106-65, Danzig can award the CAR to veterans
retroactively. The time period required for submission is being waived
in all cases. Two blocks of time have been designated by Danzig for
eligibility of the CAR; World War II: December 7, 1941-April 14, 1946,
and Korea: June 27, 1950-July 27, 1954.
Navy Veterans who served during these periods may write directly to
the Nay Awards Branch for settlement at:
Chief of Naval Operations (NO9B33)
2000 Navy Pentagon
Washington, D.C. 20350-2000
The following information must be provided: Standard Form 180 or cover
letter with the following information: full name, social security
number, service number (if applicable), period of eligibility, unit
assigned at the time, and mailing address. Copy of Naval Personnel
Form 553 or Defense Department (DD) 214; DD-215 (if applicable).
Additional substantiating documentation (optional): copies of combat
awards; copies of evaluations; muster sheets or orders showing
assignment to the unit for the period requested.
A special section will handle these requests, but no other awards may
be requested in conjunction with the CAR. Only CAR requests dated
after March 15, 2000, and in accordance with the prescribed guidance
will be forwarded to the board for decision. Any prior requests must
be resubmitted.
If a veteran cannot provide the required documentation, a request for
personal record information must be submitted to the St. Louis Records
Center before submitting the request to the Navy Awards Board.
If a veteran desires to address a different period of time, a request
to review the period may be sent, with substantiating documentation,
to the Navy Board of Decorations and Medals at the above address.