Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW)

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Ray Ramos

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Dec 18, 2007, 9:06:16 PM12/18/07
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About IVAW
http://www.ivaw.org

Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) was founded by Iraq war veterans in
July 2004 at the annual convention of Veterans for Peace (VFP) in Boston
to give a voice to the large number of active duty service people and
veterans who are against this war, but are under various pressures to
remain silent.

From its inception, IVAW has called for:

* Immediate withdrawal of all occupying forces in Iraq;
* Reparations for the destruction and corporate pillaging of Iraq so
that Iraqi people can control their own lives and future; and
* Full benefits, adequate healthcare (including mental health), and
other supports for returning servicemen and women.

Today, IVAW members are in 48 states, Washington, D.C., Canada, and on
numerous bases overseas, including Iraq. IVAW has chapters around the
country and in Canada. IVAW members educate the public about the
realities of the Iraq war by speaking in communities and to the media
about their experiences. Members also dialogue with youth in classrooms
about the realities of military service. IVAW supports all those
resisting the war, including Conscientious Objectors and others facing
military prosecution for their refusal to fight. IVAW advocates for full
funding for the Veterans Administration, and full quality health
treatment (including mental health) and benefits for veterans when they
return from duty.

To learn more about IVAW's strategy to end the war and bring the troops
home now, you can download our strategy pamphlet in PDF format here.
http://www.ivaw.org/publicdocuments/strategypamphlet.pdf

Colin Campbell

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Dec 18, 2007, 10:18:51 PM12/18/07
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On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:06:16 -0800, Ray Ramos <i2p6...@nospam.com>
wrote:

>
>About IVAW
> http://www.ivaw.org
>
>Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) was founded by Iraq war veterans in
>July 2004 at the annual convention of Veterans for Peace (VFP) in Boston
>to give a voice to the large number of active duty service people and
>veterans who are against this war, but are under various pressures to
>remain silent.

A group of people who falsely claim to speak for those of us who have
served in Iraq.

We are not remaining 'silent' because of pressure - we truly support
what we are doing.

Sad that people like yourself have so little respect for those who
serve that you refuse to listen any of us except the tiny percentage
who agree with you.

--
There can be no triumph without loss.
No victory without suffering.
No freedom without sacrifice.

Duke Of Earl

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Dec 19, 2007, 12:45:27 AM12/19/07
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"Colin Campbell" <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote in
message news:t73hm3t52ka3juj5k...@4ax.com...


Colin yep, they are pitting veterans against veterans and as a disabled vet
I am not toi happy.
To me the people who want peace the most are the military who serve


The Shadow

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Dec 19, 2007, 1:19:58 AM12/19/07
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On 18 Tháng Mười Hai, 16:06, Ray Ramos <i2p6w...@nospam.com> wrote:
> About IVAW

> To learn more about IVAW's strategy

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AC7Yk8eMh8E&feature=related

"The Shadow" knows...

La N

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Dec 19, 2007, 1:38:50 AM12/19/07
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"Duke Of Earl" <sting...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:13mhbvr...@corp.supernews.com...

The irony is that I see a lot of you veterans fighting against each other on
Usenet.

- nilita


Lt Gen Al E. Gator

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Dec 19, 2007, 2:37:25 AM12/19/07
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"La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:_%2aj.33731$5l3.498@edtnps82...

>
> "Duke Of Earl" <sting...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:13mhbvr...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> Colin yep, they are pitting veterans against veterans and as a disabled
>> vet I am not toi happy.
>> To me the people who want peace the most are the military who serve
>>
>
> The irony is that I see a lot of you veterans fighting against each other
> on Usenet.
>
they aren't veterans, they're lying, veteran impersonating conservative
hillbilly
fuckups


Mac

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Dec 19, 2007, 3:02:04 AM12/19/07
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On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 22:19:58 -0800 (PST), The Shadow
<das...@gmail.com> wrote:

*******************************
What was interesting was to hear that the Jessie MacBeth person spent
an entire 44-days in the military and still managed to be Special
Forces and go through Ranger School and then be in Afganistan and Iraq
and engage in all those atrocities...
Jeez.
And he only got FIVE MONTHS jail time for trying to scam the VA and
claiming those awards?
---Mac, the Medic

Hertz Donut

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Dec 19, 2007, 3:45:24 AM12/19/07
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"Lt Gen Al E. Gator" <A...@CrocsBiteaBillyToday.com> wrote in message
news:RU3aj.33603$Pv2....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...


Then there is you...

Little Genitals Alice E. Gaywhore.

In your world:

1. There are 52 states in the U.S.
2. Al Gore won an election.
3. The National Guard is not part of the Military
4. You can fly a fighter jet.

All that, and you have never left the trailer park in Indiana that you were
born in.

Honu

a425couple

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Dec 19, 2007, 10:58:53 AM12/19/07
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"La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote

> "Duke Of Earl" <sting...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > "Colin Campbell" <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote
> >> On Tue, 18 Dec Ray Ramos <i2p6...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >>>About IVAW
> >>> http://www.ivaw.org
> >>>Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) was founded by Iraq war veterans
in
> >>>July 2004 at the annual convention of Veterans for Peace (VFP) in
Boston
> >>>to give a voice to the large number of active duty service people and
> >>>veterans who are against this war,
> >> A group of people who falsely claim to speak for those of us who have
> >> served in Iraq.
> >> We are not remaining 'silent' because of pressure - we truly support
> >> what we are doing.
> >> Sad that people like yourself have so little respect for those who
> >> serve that you refuse to listen any of us except the tiny percentage
> >> who agree with you.
> >> There can be no triumph without loss.
> >> No victory without suffering.
> >> No freedom without sacrifice.
> > Colin yep, they are pitting veterans against veterans and as a disabled
> > vet I am not toi happy.
> > To me the people who want peace the most are the military who serve
>
> The irony is that I see a lot of you veterans fighting against each other
on
> Usenet. - nilita

Ironic, yes. More so, it just makes me sad the way it's done.

As citizens in a democratic republic,
we all can and should express our own views.
And obviously, these are somewhat shaped by the
variety of our own experiences and personalities.
It then is very understandable that we will have differences of opinion.

But to me, it is very sad, that discussion of these differences
very quickly turns into bitter attacks on the person.
So I regularly get sad about the lack of civility and respect.

I wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.


Ray Ramos

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Dec 19, 2007, 11:10:29 AM12/19/07
to

Ray Ramos wrote:
>
> About IVAW
> http://www.ivaw.org


Why we're against the war

Q: Why are veterans, active duty, and National Guard men and women opposed to the war in Iraq?

A: Here are 10 reasons we oppose this war:

1. The Iraq war is based on lies and deception.
The Bush Administration planned for an attack against Iraq before September 11th, 2001. They used the false pretense of an imminent nuclear, chemical and biological weapons threat to deceive Congress into rationalizing this unnecessary conflict. They hide our casualties of war by banning the filming of our fallen's caskets when they arrive home, and when they refuse to allow the media into Walter Reed Hospital and other Veterans Administration facilities which are overflowing with maimed and traumatized veterans.
For further reading: www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/index.html

http://www.ivaw.org/faq

La N

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Dec 19, 2007, 12:00:53 PM12/19/07
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"a425couple" <a425c...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:N7ydnbMebdOgovTa...@comcast.com...

And all the best to you too, my dear friend. It's good to know you.

- nilita


Dan

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Dec 19, 2007, 1:37:45 PM12/19/07
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Colin Campbell wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:06:16 -0800, Ray Ramos <i2p6...@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
>> About IVAW
>> http://www.ivaw.org
>>
>> Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) was founded by Iraq war veterans in
>> July 2004 at the annual convention of Veterans for Peace (VFP) in Boston
>> to give a voice to the large number of active duty service people and
>> veterans who are against this war, but are under various pressures to
>> remain silent.
>
> A group of people who falsely claim to speak for those of us who have
> served in Iraq.

Do you have evidence to support this assertion?

> We are not remaining 'silent' because of pressure - we truly support
> what we are doing.

Who is "we?"

> Sad that people like yourself have so little respect for those who
> serve that you refuse to listen any of us except the tiny percentage
> who agree with you.

Again, do you have any evidence to support this assertion?

Dan

Dan

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Dec 19, 2007, 1:38:42 PM12/19/07
to

Who is this "they" of which you speak?

> To me the people who want peace the most are the military who serve

Opinion noted.

Dan

Duke Of Earl

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Dec 19, 2007, 2:47:21 PM12/19/07
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"Lt Gen Al E. Gator" <A...@CrocsBiteaBillyToday.com> wrote in message
news:RU3aj.33603$Pv2....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>

Gator you know you being a coward and hiding behind the news is sad.
I guess your long line of sissy mary cowards in your family has been passed
on to you. I also bet you walk up to any vet andsay what you spew your ass
would be grass.
>
>


Message has been deleted

La N

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Dec 19, 2007, 6:49:19 PM12/19/07
to

"Matt Osborn" <a@b.c> wrote in message
news:nj6jm3504va56ilq4...@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 06:38:50 GMT, "La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Colin yep, they are pitting veterans against veterans and as a disabled
>>> vet I am not toi happy.
>>> To me the people who want peace the most are the military who serve
>>>
>>
>>The irony is that I see a lot of you veterans fighting against each other
>>on
>>Usenet.
>
> You mean the beauty of it don't you?
>

I dunno if there's anything esthetically pleasing to the eyes of grown men
who supposedly fought in wars acting the way they do on Usenet ... but if
you say so ..%).

Actually, "beauty" is what what sees and hears in an Andrea Bocelli
performance ... but that's just *moi* ...<g>

- nilita


Duke Of Earl

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Dec 20, 2007, 12:44:39 AM12/20/07
to
No way Ray.
I am also a veteran an disabled. When we took the oath
we did it knowing full well we could be called to serve
no mater what.nd your group allthough I admire tthem for being vets unlike
ones who have not I have to disagree with your group.
Your group is pitting veterans against veterans and that is sad.
YOu do not want to mention the democrats who also had the same intel and
that leads me to beleive that your greoup maybe partisan to the democrats.
But look at the diservices your geoup is doing for the guys and woman who
are there wanting to do their jobs.
Then look at the terrorists who I feel are getting the support and want to
keep fighting.
I respect you but respectfully disagree with you.
Dave
US Army MP
1964-1975


Lt Gen Al E. Gator

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Dec 20, 2007, 1:34:30 AM12/20/07
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"Duke Of Earl" <sting...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:13mitad...@corp.supernews.com...

hey gomer, why is it that you losing,failing, loud mouth hillbillies always
know everything
but fuck up everything you come in contact with ?

what news am I hiding behind gomer, the news of losing,failing, and
regheaded ass whippings for 5 years ?

the news of one fuckup after another for the last 7 years ?

don't make any bets goober, you're bound to lose, it's a hillbilly thang


Lt Gen Al E. Gator

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Dec 20, 2007, 1:36:45 AM12/20/07
to

"La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:36iaj.27719$UZ4.9178@edtnps89...

>
> "Matt Osborn" <a@b.c> wrote in message
> news:nj6jm3504va56ilq4...@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 06:38:50 GMT, "La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Colin yep, they are pitting veterans against veterans and as a disabled
>>>> vet I am not toi happy.
>>>> To me the people who want peace the most are the military who serve
>>>>
>>>
>>>The irony is that I see a lot of you veterans fighting against each other
>>>on
>>>Usenet.
>>
>> You mean the beauty of it don't you?
>>
>
> I dunno if there's anything esthetically pleasing to the eyes of grown men
> who supposedly fought in wars acting the way they do on Usenet ... but if
> you say so ..%).


who started this ruckus ?

and did they expect the rest of us to listen to their lies and bullshit
politely ?

they can go fuck themselves, the low life, feeble minded, backstabbing,
conservative
liars and non spellers, and they can keep their heads up the bush runts ass
till they die,
hopefully soon


Hertz Donut

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Dec 20, 2007, 2:12:16 AM12/20/07
to

"Lt Gen Al E. Gator" <A...@CrocsBiteaBillyToday.com> wrote in message
news:W1oaj.84195$YL5....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...

>
> "Duke Of Earl" <sting...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:13mitad...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> "Lt Gen Al E. Gator" <A...@CrocsBiteaBillyToday.com> wrote in message
>> news:RU3aj.33603$Pv2....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>>>
>>> "La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:_%2aj.33731$5l3.498@edtnps82...
>>>>
>>>> "Duke Of Earl" <sting...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:13mhbvr...@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> Colin yep, they are pitting veterans against veterans and as a
>>>>> disabled vet I am not toi happy.
>>>>> To me the people who want peace the most are the military who serve
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The irony is that I see a lot of you veterans fighting against each
>>>> other on Usenet.
>>>>
>>> they aren't veterans, they're lying, veteran impersonating conservative
>>> hillbilly
>>> fuckups
>>
>> Gator you know you being a coward and hiding behind the news is sad.
>> I guess your long line of sissy mary cowards in your family has been
>> passed on to you. I also bet you walk up to any vet andsay what you spew
>> your ass would be grass.
>
> hey gomer, why is it that you losing,failing, loud mouth hillbillies
> always know everything
> but fuck up everything you come in contact with ?

No one mentioned your family...why bring them into it?

>
> what news am I hiding behind gomer, the news of losing,failing, and
> regheaded ass whippings for 5 years ?

Yep...all the lies you have spewed:

1. Al Gore won the election.
2. There are 52 states in the U.S.
3. The National Guard is not part of the military.
4. George W. Bush was not a pilot.
5. You fy figter jets, despite being 14 years old and not in the military.


>
> the news of one fuckup after another for the last 7 years ?

Why bring yup your old posts? No one read them anyway!

>
> don't make any bets goober, you're bound to lose, it's a hillbilly thang


You are the queen of the hillbillies...

Honu

Hertz Donut

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Dec 20, 2007, 2:13:25 AM12/20/07
to

"Lt Gen Al E. Gator" <A...@CrocsBiteaBillyToday.com> wrote in message
news:14oaj.84196$YL5....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...

>
> "La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:36iaj.27719$UZ4.9178@edtnps89...
>>
>> "Matt Osborn" <a@b.c> wrote in message
>> news:nj6jm3504va56ilq4...@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 06:38:50 GMT, "La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Colin yep, they are pitting veterans against veterans and as a
>>>>> disabled
>>>>> vet I am not toi happy.
>>>>> To me the people who want peace the most are the military who serve
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The irony is that I see a lot of you veterans fighting against each
>>>>other on
>>>>Usenet.
>>>
>>> You mean the beauty of it don't you?
>>>
>>
>> I dunno if there's anything esthetically pleasing to the eyes of grown
>> men who supposedly fought in wars acting the way they do on Usenet ...
>> but if you say so ..%).
>
>
> who started this ruckus ?

Go back to sleep...


>
> and did they expect the rest of us to listen to their lies and bullshit
> politely ?
>

No one listens to your lies....


> they can go fuck themselves, the low life, feeble minded, backstabbing,
> conservative
> liars and non spellers, and they can keep their heads up the bush runts
> ass till they die,
> hopefully soon


Why...too much business in the men's room stall? Need a break? Your jaw
getting sore?

Honu

i2p6 west

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Dec 20, 2007, 3:47:09 AM12/20/07
to
Dan wrote:

> Colin Campbell wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:06:16 -0800, Ray Ramos <i2p6...@nospam.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> About IVAW
>>> http://www.ivaw.org
>>>
>>> Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) was founded by Iraq war veterans in
>>> July 2004 at the annual convention of Veterans for Peace (VFP) in Boston
>>> to give a voice to the large number of active duty service people and
>>> veterans who are against this war, but are under various pressures to
>>> remain silent.
>>
>>
>> A group of people who falsely claim to speak for those of us who have
>> served in Iraq.


Campbell is a lying sack of shit. The IVAW is *exactly* what they say it is on their website.

;-)

i2p6 west

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Dec 20, 2007, 3:59:35 AM12/20/07
to
Duke Of Earl wrote:
> No way Ray.
> I am also a veteran an disabled. When we took the oath
> we did it knowing full well we could be called to serve
> no mater what.

Son, the oath is not open-ended-anything-goes.

Even a dumb shit like you can come up with scenarios where *you* would
not fight, no matter how "legal".

Today, there are 1 million dead *innocent* people, who would still be alive
if not for the war the U.S. started.

and that number continues to rise...

i2p6 west

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Dec 20, 2007, 5:00:56 AM12/20/07
to
i2p6 west wrote:

and btw, requiring new *employees* to take an oath is bogus...when you promise
job-seekers to give them paychecks and bonus checks, housing and food, college
tuition, free training, and lifetime medical care, and the vast majority
expect to never see any combat...so to get the benefits, yeah, they will
take most any "oath". That is de facto dishonest. Every citizen knows
he must defend the country when under *legitimate* attack...no oath is required.

Our U.S. troops are mercenaries, hired guns, nothing else...many are
in-training future employees of Blackwater.

;-)

Ray Ramos

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Dec 20, 2007, 12:24:01 PM12/20/07
to

>> About IVAW
>> http://www.ivaw.org
>
>
> Why we're against the war
>
> Q: Why are veterans, active duty, and National Guard men and women
> opposed to the war in Iraq?
>
> A: Here are 10 reasons we oppose this war:
>
> 1. The Iraq war is based on lies and deception.
> The Bush Administration planned for an attack against Iraq before
> September 11th, 2001. They used the false pretense of an imminent
> nuclear, chemical and biological weapons threat to deceive Congress into
> rationalizing this unnecessary conflict. They hide our casualties of war
> by banning the filming of our fallen's caskets when they arrive home,
> and when they refuse to allow the media into Walter Reed Hospital and
> other Veterans Administration facilities which are overflowing with
> maimed and traumatized veterans.
> For further reading: www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/index.html

2. The Iraq war violates international law.
The United States assaulted and occupied Iraq without the consent of
the UN Security Council. In doing so they violated the same body of laws
they accused Iraq of breaching.
For further reading:
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/proc/imtconst.htm
http://www.westpointgradsagainstthewar.org/

http://www.ivaw.org/faq

;-)

Duke Of Earl

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Dec 20, 2007, 8:05:21 PM12/20/07
to

"i2p6 west" <i2p6...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:13mkfai...@corp.supernews.com...
]Foir Christmas I would love to see a soldier kick your fuckin ass. I hope
this Christmas yu choke
> ;-)


Duke Of Earl

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Dec 20, 2007, 8:07:09 PM12/20/07
to
\So you write why are we veterans and national guard
against the war?
st Off not all veterans are against it.
2nd You guys shoulkd let us know why you are even against affganistan.
Lastly You do a diservice who are on the frontline now.
Think for once


Mac

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Dec 20, 2007, 9:55:07 PM12/20/07
to

*************************************
Your Fantasy is NOT Reality.
Your making an supported statement does not make such true.
And you haven't substantiated that U.S. troops are "yours"...
---Mac, the Medic

redc1c4

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Dec 21, 2007, 12:27:20 AM12/21/07
to
i2pfreely wrote:
>
> Dan wrote:
>
> > Colin Campbell wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:06:16 -0800, Ray Ramos <i2p6...@nospam.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> About IVAW
> >>> http://www.ivaw.org
> >>>
> >>> Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) was founded by Iraq war veterans in
> >>> July 2004 at the annual convention of Veterans for Peace (VFP) in Boston
> >>> to give a voice to the large number of active duty service people and
> >>> veterans who are against this war, but are under various pressures to
> >>> remain silent.
> >>
> >>
> >> A group of people who falsely claim to speak for those of us who have
> >> served in Iraq.
>
> Campbell is a lying sack of shit. The IVAW is *exactly* what they say it is on their website.

the IVAW is a collection of fakes, fools, frauds & useful idiots......

redc1c4,
(that explains why you identify with them. %-)
--
"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."

Army Officer's Guide

redc1c4

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Dec 21, 2007, 12:43:14 AM12/21/07
to

which war is that?

redc1c4,
(undoubtedly the answer will be humorous, but wrong. %-)

redc1c4

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Dec 21, 2007, 12:44:21 AM12/21/07
to

and you are a delusional nut j*b, who hasn't a clue.

redc1c4,
pointing out the obvious, to the oblivious. %-)

redc1c4

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Dec 21, 2007, 12:47:11 AM12/21/07
to

except, of course, your contention is wrong......

redc1c4,
but that's never stopped your kind before. %-)

Carl Carlos

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Dec 21, 2007, 9:39:52 AM12/21/07
to

>>> About IVAW
>>> http://www.ivaw.org
>>
>>
>> Why we're against the war
>>
>> Q: Why are veterans, active duty, and National Guard men and women
>> opposed to the war in Iraq?
>>
>> A: Here are 10 reasons we oppose this war:
>>
>> 1. The Iraq war is based on lies and deception.
>> The Bush Administration planned for an attack against Iraq
>> before September 11th, 2001. They used the false pretense of an
>> imminent nuclear, chemical and biological weapons threat to deceive
>> Congress into rationalizing this unnecessary conflict. They hide our
>> casualties of war by banning the filming of our fallen's caskets when
>> they arrive home, and when they refuse to allow the media into Walter
>> Reed Hospital and other Veterans Administration facilities which are
>> overflowing with maimed and traumatized veterans.
>> For further reading:
>> www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/index.html
>
> 2. The Iraq war violates international law.
> The United States assaulted and occupied Iraq without the consent of
> the UN Security Council. In doing so they violated the same body of laws
> they accused Iraq of breaching.
> For further reading:
> http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/proc/imtconst.htm
> http://www.westpointgradsagainstthewar.org/

3. Corporate profiteering is driving the war in Iraq.
From privately contracted soldiers and linguists to no-bid
reconstruction contracts and multinational oil negotiations, those
who benefit the most in this conflict are those who suffer the least.
The United States has chosen a path that directly contradicts President
Eisenhower's farewell warning regarding the military industrial complex.
As long as those in power are not held accountable, they will continue...
For further reading:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0714-01.htm
http://www.publicintegrity.org/wow/

tankfixer

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Dec 21, 2007, 8:40:27 PM12/21/07
to
In article <13mm4an...@corp.supernews.com>, stingray66
@earthlink.net says...

He hasn't the nads to actually spew any of his crap at a soldier to his
face..

Dan Danoso

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Dec 22, 2007, 11:37:57 AM12/22/07
to

4. Overwhelming civilian casualties are a daily occurrence in Iraq.
Despite attempts in training and technological sophistication,
large-scale civilian death is both a direct and indirect result of
United States aggression in Iraq. Even the most conservative estimates
of Iraqi civilian deaths number over 100,000. Currently over 100 civilians
die every day in Baghdad alone.For further reading:
http://www.nomorevictims.org/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1338749,00.html
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70A1EF73C5A0C758DDDA10894DE404482

Jeffrey Turner

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Dec 22, 2007, 12:22:38 PM12/22/07
to
La N wrote:
> "Duke Of Earl" <sting...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>>"Colin Campbell" <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote:
>>>On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:06:16 -0800, Ray Ramos <i2p6...@nospam.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>About IVAW
>>>> http://www.ivaw.org
>>>>
>>>>Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) was founded by Iraq war veterans in
>>>>July 2004 at the annual convention of Veterans for Peace (VFP) in Boston
>>>>to give a voice to the large number of active duty service people and
>>>>veterans who are against this war, but are under various pressures to
>>>>remain silent.
>>>
>>>A group of people who falsely claim to speak for those of us who have
>>>served in Iraq.
>>>
>>>We are not remaining 'silent' because of pressure - we truly support
>>>what we are doing.
>>>
>>>Sad that people like yourself have so little respect for those who
>>>serve that you refuse to listen any of us except the tiny percentage
>>>who agree with you.
>>>
>>>There can be no triumph without loss.
>>>No victory without suffering.
>>>No freedom without sacrifice.

There is no propaganda without dupes.

>>Colin yep, they are pitting veterans against veterans and as a disabled
>>vet I am not toi happy.
>>To me the people who want peace the most are the military who serve
>
> The irony is that I see a lot of you veterans fighting against each other on
> Usenet.

If only they would fight the Iraqis the same way, instead of imposing
Bush's will on them by force of arms.

--Jeff

--
Ignorance, allied with power, is the
most ferocious enemy justice can have.
-James Baldwin

Paul Setti

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Dec 23, 2007, 5:49:19 PM12/23/07
to

5. Soldiers have the right to refuse illegal war.
All in service to this country swear an oath to protect and defend
the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign
and domestic. However, they are prosecuted if they object to serve in a
war they see as illegal under our Constitution. As such, our brothers and
sisters are paying the price for political incompetence, forced to fight
in a war instead of having been sufficiently trained to carry out the task
of nation-building.
For further reading:
http://thankyoult.live.radicaldesigns.org/content/view/172/
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qa6ZHYcG_EM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1dAXQeH7y9g&mode=related&search=
http://girights.objector.org

redc1c4

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Dec 23, 2007, 6:03:18 PM12/23/07
to
Paul Setti wrote:
>
> >>>>> About IVAW

(mercy snipage occurs)

i left in the parts that were accurate, important and desirable.

redc1c4,
i trimmed out the all BS and SMN too..... %-)

Jeffrey Turner

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Dec 23, 2007, 9:06:12 PM12/23/07
to
redc1c4 wrote:

> Paul Setti wrote:
>
>>>>>>>About IVAW
>
>
> (mercy snipage occurs)
>
> i left in the parts that were accurate, important and desirable.
>
> redc1c4,
> i trimmed out the all BS and SMN too..... %-)

You've been fed BS all your life. You can't even recognize truth.

Mac

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Dec 23, 2007, 10:24:34 PM12/23/07
to
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:06:12 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
<jtu...@localnet.com> wrote:

>redc1c4 wrote:
>
>> Paul Setti wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>About IVAW
>>
>>
>> (mercy snipage occurs)
>>
>> i left in the parts that were accurate, important and desirable.
>>
>> redc1c4,
>> i trimmed out the all BS and SMN too..... %-)

*************************************


>You've been fed BS all your life. You can't even recognize truth.
>--Jeff

========== ========
Oh, you mean the kind of stuff Jessie MacBeth spewed forth??
---Mac, the Medic

redc1c4

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Dec 23, 2007, 10:44:32 PM12/23/07
to
Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>
> redc1c4 wrote:
>
> > Paul Setti wrote:
> >
> >>>>>>>About IVAW
> >
> >
> > (mercy snipage occurs)
> >
> > i left in the parts that were accurate, important and desirable.
> >
> > redc1c4,
> > i trimmed out the all BS and SMN too..... %-)
>
> You've been fed BS all your life. You can't even recognize truth.

sure i can: that's why i can see there isn't any to be found in the IVAW.

redc1c4,
pointing out the obvious, to the oblivious. %-)

Frank Fahran

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Dec 24, 2007, 4:44:31 PM12/24/07
to

6. Service members are facing serious health consequences due to our Government's negligence.
Many of our troops have already been deployed to Iraq for two, three,
and even four tours of duty averaging eleven months each. Combat stress,
exhaustion, and bearing witness to the horrors of war contribute to Post
Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), a serious set of symptoms that can lead
to depression, illness, violent behavior, and even suicide. Additionally,
depleted uranium, Lariam, insufficient body armor and infectious diseases are
just a few of the health risks which accompany an immorally planned and
incompetently executed war. Finally, upon a soldier's release, the Veterans
Administration is far too under-funded to fully deal with the magnitude of veterans in need.
For further reading:
http://www.ncptsd.va.gov/
http://www.vets4vets.us/

Truth Fair Moral

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Dec 24, 2007, 4:52:36 PM12/24/07
to

Join the Truth in Recruiting campaign!

Every day, all across this country, there are military recruiters *lying*
to persuade young people to sign up for the military. Proponents of the
policy in Iraq are quick to point out that everyone in the military
*volunteered*, but what does that mean if most soldiers were *tricked* into
enlisting by the *lies* that recruiters tell?

The Truth in Recruiting campaign challenges those *lies* and the
recruitment machine which depends on them. We have developed actions and
materials for our members and for the general public so you can
participate in our campaign. Together we will share the truth about
recruiting and the truth about the war that we must end now. To learn
more about the Truth in Recruiting campaign click here.

Actions You Can Take

* Befriend a Recruiter
* Distribute our flyer at your local military recruitment center
Truth in Recruiting Flyer (PDF)
How to participate in National Truth in Recruiting Day
* Contact the nearest IVAW chapter to you and volunteer to support their efforts and actions
* Bring our Truth in Recruiting campaign to a school near you. Click here for a guide on how to get started.
* Add a Truth in Recruiting banner to your website, blog or social networking profile. Click here to get the code.

What IVAW members are doing

* War is Not a Game
* Visiting high schools and talking about their experiences with recruitment

Other Resources:

* A Recruiter's Perspective (PDF)
* What is Truth in Recruiting?
* National Network Opposing Militarization of Youth
* AFSC Youth & Militarism publications

For questions, comments, and press inquiries, please contact tr...@ivaw.org.

http://www.ivaw.org/truth

> About IVAW
> http://www.ivaw.org

redc1c4

unread,
Dec 24, 2007, 5:23:44 PM12/24/07
to
Truth Fair Moral wrote:
>
> Join the Treason in Recruiting campaign!

(mercy snipage occurs)

redc1c4,
edited for honesty & brevity. %-)

redc1c4

unread,
Dec 24, 2007, 5:25:21 PM12/24/07
to
i2pfreely morphed his handle & wrote:

(seditious bullshit snipped)

redc1c4,
sucks to be you, don't it? %-)

Mac

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Dec 25, 2007, 5:48:22 AM12/25/07
to
On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 22:25:21 GMT, redc1c4
<red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:

>i2pfreely morphed his handle & wrote:
>
>(seditious bullshit snipped)
>
>redc1c4,
>sucks to be you, don't it? %-)

*********************************
Well, he has to do that to pretend he has so many people supporting
his point of view...
Something akin to the "imaginary friends" he probably had as a
child.
---Mac, the Medic

Mac

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Dec 25, 2007, 5:49:17 AM12/25/07
to
On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 13:52:36 -0800, Truth Fair Moral
<i2p6...@nospam.com> wrote:

>
>Join the Truth in Recruiting campaign!

SNIP
**********************
So says the resident troll, desperately posting as yet someone else.
---Mac, the Medic

Mac

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Dec 25, 2007, 5:50:18 AM12/25/07
to
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 06:39:52 -0800, Carl Carlos <i2p6...@nospam.com>
wrote:

>From: Carl Carlos <i2p6...@nospam.com>
*******************************************
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, figures.
---Mac, the Medic

Mac

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Dec 25, 2007, 5:50:44 AM12/25/07
to
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 08:37:57 -0800, Dan Danoso <i2p6...@nospam.com>
wrote:

>From: Dan Danoso <i2p6...@nospam.com>

=========== ============
Not too honest, are you?
---Mac, the Medic

Mac

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Dec 25, 2007, 5:51:39 AM12/25/07
to
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:49:19 -0800, Paul Setti <i2p6...@nospam.com>
wrote:

>From: Paul Setti <i2p6...@nospam.com>

********************************************
Yet antoher desperate attempt to enhance the critter's little mob of
like-thinking trolls....
---Mac, the Medic

Gordon Smith

unread,
Dec 26, 2007, 1:27:52 AM12/26/07
to

7. The war in Iraq is tearing our families apart.
The use of stop-loss on active duty troops and the unnecessarily
lengthy and repeat active tours by Guard and Reserve troops place enough
strain on our military families, even without being forced to sacrifice
their loved ones for this ongoing political experiment in the Middle East.
For further reading: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_loss_092704,00.html

Gordon Smith

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Dec 26, 2007, 1:28:45 AM12/26/07
to

http://www.ivaw.org/chapters

IVAW Chapters

Click on a chapter for contacts, events, and more information.

* Asheville NC | Chapter 27
* Atlanta | Chapter 4
* Austin TX | Chapter 28
* Bay area | Chapter 10
* Bellingham WA | Chapter 32
* Boston MA | Chapter 17
* Burlington VT | Chapter 15
* Central Illinois | Chapter 23
* Central New York | Chapter 3
* Chicago | Chapter 12
* Cleveland | Chapter 25
* Colorado Springs | Chapter 1
* Denver | Chapter 13
* Eastern North Carolina | Chapter 19
* Fort Drum NY | Chapter 14
* Fort Meade MD | Chapter 18
* Gainesville, FL | Chapter 31
* Kansas City MO | Chapter 20
* Los Angeles | Chapter 6
* Madison WI | Chapter 7
* Miami FL | Chapter 29
* Minnesota | Chapter 22
* New Hampshire | Chapter 24
* New York City | Chapter 2
* Oklahoma City | Chapter 26
* Olympia WA | Chapter 11
* Philadelphia | Chapter 16
* Providence RI | Chapter 30
* San Diego CA | Chapter 21
* Seattle | Chapter 8
* Toronto Canada | Chapter 5
* Washington DC | Chapter 9


Ray Ramos wrote:
>
> About IVAW
> http://www.ivaw.org
>

redvet

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Dec 26, 2007, 2:50:43 AM12/26/07
to
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 22:28:45 -0800, Gordon Smith <i2p6...@nospam.com>
wrote:

Aloha Gordon Smith,
In the summer of '03 a couple of the coordinators for ivaw came
through Honolulu for our 'festival of resistance' All of the regular
posters of this newsgroup (alt.war.vietnam) thought that nothing would
come of the new organization and made comments about its failure. That
wasn't what 'Vietnam Veterans Against the War/AI' thought at the time;
we are very pleased the war pigs got it wrong and so fast. No doubt
the troglodytes will also believe in March that the new WSI will not
have an impact on the government's efforts to fight its war of
occupation. They will be wrong again.

http://girights.objector.org/
http://www.objector.org/http://www.mfso.org/

redvet
Facilitator
Vietnam Veterans Against the War/Anti-Imperialist
http://www.oz.net/~vvawai/
Hawaii Chapter

Mac

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Dec 26, 2007, 3:56:06 AM12/26/07
to
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 22:28:45 -0800, Gordon Smith <i2p6...@nospam.com>
wrote:

>From: Gordon Smith <i2p6...@nospam.com>
Responds to his own posting as R. Ramos...
Trying so desperately to pretend that he has viable supporters.
---Mac, the Medic

Charles Jordon

unread,
Dec 29, 2007, 4:33:03 AM12/29/07
to

8. The Iraq war is robbing us of funding sorely needed here at home.
$5.8 billion per month is spent on a war which could have aided the
victims of Hurricane Katrina, gone to impoverished schools, the construction
of hospitals and health care systems, tax cut initiatives, and a host of
domestic programs that have all been gutted in the wake of the war in Iraq.
For further reading:
http://www.costofwar.com

redc1c4

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Dec 29, 2007, 4:47:52 AM12/29/07
to
Charles Jordon wrote:
>

(bullshit snipped)

redc1c4,
here to help %-)

Gale Sayeers

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Dec 29, 2007, 4:49:50 AM12/29/07
to

http://www.ivaw.org/wintersoldier

Winter Soldier: Iraq & Afghanistan


This spring, Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) is revealing the
reality of the U.S. occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan. In what will be
history's largest gathering of U.S. veterans who served in Iraq and
Afghanistan, as well as Iraqi and Afghan survivors, eyewitnesses will
share their experiences in a public investigation called Winter Soldier:
Iraq and Afghanistan.

Winter Soldiers, according to founding father Thomas Paine, are those
who stand up for the soul of their country, even in its darkest hours.
With this spirit in mind, IVAW members are standing up to make their
experiences available to all who are concerned about the direction of
our country.

Unfortunately, this is not the first time America has needed its Winter
Soldiers, in 1971, over one hundred members of Vietnam Veterans Against
the War gathered in Detroit to share their stories with America.
Atrocities like the My Lai massacre had ignited popular opposition to
the war, but political and military leaders insisted that such crimes
were isolated exceptions. The members of VVAW knew differently.

Over three days in January, these soldiers testified on the systematic
brutality they had seen visited upon the people of Vietnam.

Over thirty years later, we find ourselves faced with a new war. But the
lies are the same. Once again, American troops are sinking into an
increasingly bloody occupation. Once again, war crimes in places like
Haditha, Fallujah, and Abu Ghraib have turned the public against the
war. Once again, politicians and generals are blaming "a few bad apples"
instead of examining the military policies that have destroyed Iraq and
Afghanistan.

Once again, our country needs Winter Soldiers.
In March of 2008, Iraq Veterans Against the War will gather in our
nation's capital to break the silence and hold our leaders accountable
for these wars. We hope you'll join us, because ours is a story that
every American needs to hear.

Click here to sign a statement of support for Winter Soldier: Iraq &
Afghanistan

Help us spread the word: forward this page to a friend.

Ray Ramos wrote:
>
> About IVAW
> http://www.ivaw.org
>

redc1c4

unread,
Dec 29, 2007, 4:57:58 AM12/29/07
to
Gale Sayeers wrote:
>
> http://www.ivaw.org/wintersoldier
>
> Winter Soldier: Iraq & Afghanistan
>
> This spring, Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) is revealing the
> reality of the U.S. occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.

now that victory is at hand, we are going to announce publicly that we are the
left wing tools and assholes that we've seemed to be all along, and beg the
forgiveness of the American people, in the hopes that no one will demand the
penalty for treason that we so richly deserve.

redc1c4,
doing his bit for truth in advertising. %-)

I

unread,
Dec 29, 2007, 5:04:46 AM12/29/07
to
redc1c4 wrote:

> Gale Sayeers wrote:
>
>>http://www.ivaw.org/wintersoldier
>>
>>Winter Soldier: Iraq & Afghanistan
>>
>>This spring, Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) is revealing the
>>reality of the U.S. occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.
>
>
> now that victory is at hand,

Ha Ha Ha!!!

whatafuckinmoron

;-)

ghao...@nospam.com.net

unread,
Dec 29, 2007, 8:53:42 AM12/29/07
to
In <477617C8...@drunkenbastards.org.ies>, on 12/29/2007
at 01:47 AM, redc1c4 <red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> said:

>Charles Jordon wrote:
>>

>(bullshit snipped)


No it happens to be the truth, you right wing kook dumbass. We are
spending $90,000 per second in iraq -=- a war made on lies that wasn't
needed, can't be won -- and only aids the enemy.

Here is what you snipped because you are afraid:

" 8. The Iraq war is robbing us of funding sorely needed here at home.
$5.8 billion per month is spent on a war which could have aided the
victims of Hurricane Katrina, gone to impoverished schools, the
construction of hospitals and health care systems, tax cut initiatives,
and a host of domestic programs that have all been gutted in the wake of
the war in Iraq.
For further reading:
http://www.costofwar.com"

Colin Campbell

unread,
Dec 29, 2007, 1:41:31 PM12/29/07
to
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 01:49:50 -0800, Gale Sayeers <drw...@unreal.edu>
wrote:

>
>http://www.ivaw.org/wintersoldier
>
>Winter Soldier: Iraq & Afghanistan
>
>
>This spring, Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) is revealing the
>reality of the U.S. occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan. In what will be
>history's largest gathering of U.S. veterans who served in Iraq and
>Afghanistan, as well as Iraqi and Afghan survivors, eyewitnesses will
>share their experiences in a public investigation called Winter Soldier:
>Iraq and Afghanistan.

So a handful of disgruntled people who are upset that the Army sent
them to war when all they wanted was college money are going to have a
whine-fest.

Those losers do not speak for 90% of the troops.


--

Colin Campbell

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Dec 29, 2007, 1:43:12 PM12/29/07
to

If you had been paying attention the news media is desperately trying
to divert attention away from Iraq now that it is obvious we are
winning.

i3q7 west

unread,
Dec 29, 2007, 2:59:28 PM12/29/07