What does the 20 on 11B20 mean?

[Eris]

I think it means rank e4 or below.

[︰ones]

x-no-idiots: yes

On Sun, 13 Nov 2016 21:23:41 -0800 (PST), in alt.war.vietnam Eris
<vit...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I think it means rank e4 or below.

It was intended to represent a level of mastery; however, it is as you
say. More like: if it's not higher, then you're not, either.

I have always wondered why it's always multiples of two.

And how come they call reality TV: "reality TV"?

Jones

[JackPineSavage]

On 13-Nov-16 23:23, Eris wrote:
> I think it means rank e4 or below.
>

It is actually 2O (Oscar) and it designates a SGT/E-5. 1O is E-4 and
below, 3O is SSG/E-6, 4O is SFC/E-7, and 5O is MSG/1SG/SGM/CSM/E-8&9.

[dino]

In article <7c71845b-cefa-a904...@privacy.net>, JackPineSavage
says...

It has changed over the years. Also the number does not necessarily designate
rank. For what it is worth I was an 11B2P as a Sp/4. This is what it was
during the Vietnam War:

Enlisted codes consisted of five digits. The first three (e.g., 11B) indicated
the position while the fourth and fifth indicated the relative level:
xxx10 - basic Infantryman (E1-E3) = 11B10
xxx20 - specialist (Specialist 4th Class, E-4) = 11B20 (Note: some SP5s were
20s, e.g., 63B20, 91B20, 94B20)
xxx30 - team leader, specialist (E-5) = 11B30 (A number of SP5 positions had
"30" MOS codes, including 64C30).
xxx40 - noncommissioned officer (Sergeant E-5, Staff Sergeant E-6, Sergeant
First Class E-7) = 11B40
xxx50 - senior noncommissioned officer (E-8, E-9) = 11B50 (or, as we shall see,
11B5M, first sergeant)

[Colonel Edmund J. Burke]

On 11/13/2016 9:23 PM, Eris wrote:
> I think it means rank e4 or below.
>

It refers to infantrymen during WWII (European Theater) who toured
Europe (for free) behind Tanks.
Now you know, son.

[JackPineSavage]

Well, since he asked "what does it mean" (current tense) instead of
"what did it mean 60 years ago" (past tense), my response would be
correct. The 5th character is alpha, not numeric, and has been since at
least 1973.

[REMF TF2AE]

in my case I started out a 26L20 microwave radio guy but became 26L2T
once I finished Tropo school. that 0 allows a place for additional
qualifiers. P for airborne, T fer Tropo, F for flight status, S for
Special Forces. would assume the BacSi had some letter for Medic. in
the Chinook a 67U10 would be a basic swamper and go-fer while a 67U20
might be a SP4 who'd been on the job a while and made Sgt. 67U30 would
be E6 and 67U40 would be Platoon sgt. for me to get past my 67U3F I
would have had to go to NCO academy, make E7 and take over a platoon.
to keep my 'F' I would have had to fly 5 times a month (mebbe 5
hours...as a CE and FE I could fly 5 hours in a day...easily in a week)
damn I can't see this morning. I need another nap
--
"they called him 'stumpy' and he warn't from around here."

[MarcusAurelius]

My MOS was 11B20. I was a squad leader in the infantry with the U.S. Army in Vietnam 1969-1970. Lot's of E-4s were squad leaders in Vietnam. If you could do the job, you got the job. However, as I remember it, you should be an E-6 to be a squad leader in the infantry. However,there is an excuse in this case. I told my Platoon Sergeant, when he asked me to be a squad leader, that I would accept the position and do the best job that I could. However, I told him that I did not want to be promoted because I had a "funny feeling" about the war. In any case, my Platoon Sergeant told me that he agreed to my terms and would not promote me. That's how I became a squad leader without being an E-5 sergeant. All of my men survived and non were wounded while I was squad leader. I am very proud of this fact.

[Eris]

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 9:09:31 PM UTC-5, MarcusAurelius wrote:
> My MOS was 11B20. I was a squad leader in the infantry with the U.S. Army in Vietnam 1969-1970. Lot's of E-4s were squad leaders in Vietnam. If you could do the job, you got the job. However, as I remember it, you should be an E-6 to be a squad leader in the infantry. However,there is an excuse in this case. I told my Platoon Sergeant, when he asked me to be a squad leader, that I would accept the position and do the best job that I could. However, I told him that I did not want to be promoted because I had a "funny feeling" about the war. In any case, my Platoon Sergeant told me that he agreed to my terms and would not promote me. That's how I became a squad leader without being an E-5 sergeant. All of my men survived and non were wounded while I was squad leader. I am very proud of this fact.

I was offered E5 if I cooperated. I was positive I was going to be killed, so I declined. Mekong Delta 68-69

[dino]

In article <de283961-d905-4cf7...@googlegroups.com>,
MarcusAurelius says...
>
>My MOS was 11B20. I was a squad leader in the infantry with the U.S. Army i=
>n Vietnam 1969-1970. Lot's of E-4s were squad leaders in Vietnam. If you co=
>uld do the job, you got the job. However, as I remember it, you should be a=
>n E-6 to be a squad leader in the infantry. However,there is an excuse in t=
>his case. I told my Platoon Sergeant, when he asked me to be a squad leader=
>, that I would accept the position and do the best job that I could. Howeve=
>r, I told him that I did not want to be promoted because I had a "funny fee=
>ling" about the war. In any case, my Platoon Sergeant told me that he agree=
>d to my terms and would not promote me. That's how I became a squad leader =
>without being an E-5 sergeant. All of my men survived and non were wounded =

>while I was squad leader. I am very proud of this fact.

You did well. Congratulations!

[meport]

On 11/14/2016 12:23 AM, Eris wrote:
> I think it means rank e4 or below.
>

I don't know what a 20 level abilities level in the Infantry means. I
do know that when I was a Combat Engineer Spec 4 I was a MOS 12B20.
That meant I was a trained Combat Engineer that knew what he was doing
and who did things correctly the first time I did it most of the time.
The day I got promoted to a Combat Engineer Sargent, E-5 MOS 12B30 all
of a sudden I now was Squad Leader in a Combat Engineer Platoon with me
and 4 other Combat Engineers who now expected me to tell them what to do
and to make sure they did it the right way the first time. Yea,
right!!! Somehow I stumbled thru that and finally learned what I was
doing and I guess I did it kind of correctly because all 5 of us walked
onto the airplane leaving Vietnam in one piece.
--
--
---
meport

[meport]

Oops, I wrote "Squad Leader". WRONG. I became a "Team Leader". In the
Combat Engineers we didn't have 2 "fire teams" in a Squad. We had 2
five man "Teams".

--
--
---
meport

[meport]

The organization of a Combat Engineer Squad was 12 men. A Squad Leader,
a Vehicle Operator/Tool Keeper/Radio Operator (truck driver driving a 5
1/2 ton dump truck with a tool trailer/pole trailer filled with the
Squad Tools) and two 5 man Sections (Section Leader, a Lead Comabt
Engineer/Demolitions Specialist, two Combat Engineers/Demolitions
Specialists and one Basic Combat Engineer).

--
--
---
meport

[︰ones]

x-no-idiots: yes

On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 08:13:18 -0500, in alt.war.vietnam meport
<w...@did.good> wrote:

>Oops, I wrote "Squad Leader". WRONG. I became a "Team Leader". In the
>Combat Engineers we didn't have 2 "fire teams" in a Squad. We had 2
>five man "Teams".

I'm sure someone will flame you appropriately for that.

Jones

[JackPineSavage]

Most sane people just mark PeePot's post as read and move along.
Nothing to see there and all that ya' know....

[dino]

In article <fn4m2c9o2a5q7rgl8...@4ax.com>, ︰ones says...

15 years ago, yeah, but those assholes are long gone.

[REMF TF2AE]

the heavy equipment operator and 4 guys with shovels eh?

[Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.]

MarcusAurelius wrote:
> I was a squad leader in the infantry with the U.S. Army in Vietnam 1969-1970.

> ...

> I did not want to be promoted because I had a "funny feeling" about the war.

> ...

> All of my men survived and non were wounded while I was squad leader.

"funny feeling" about the war, indeed.

Your problem is that it is well documented that in those years U.S. soldiers
were purposefully avoiding fights...they mostly knew the war was wrong, they were
defeated, and just wanted to survive their 13 month "tour" in Vietnam. Winning and
patriotism didn't mean shit to them...else Shaw ("Marcus Aurelius") would have
sought the enemy and risked being wounded or killed.

"funny feeling"...ha ha ha
;-)

[Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.]

Eris wrote:
>
> I was offered E5 if I cooperated. I was positive I was going to be killed, so I declined.

Smart...avoid fighting to survive the "tour".
;-)

[Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.]

meport wrote:
>
> I was a Combat Engineer

> ...

> all 5 of us walked onto the airplane leaving Vietnam in one piece.

well, hero, you've posted that you never engaged the enemy in combat.
;-)

[meport]

Wrong about the heavy equipment operator!!! 5 guys with shovels. All
our heavy equipment was in the Battalion Headquarters Company and in the
Equipment Section of the Combat Engineer Company Headquarters Platoon.
Did we ever get it when we needed it? Hell no. I guess if our Platoon
Leader begged enough he could get some but not often and never enough or
fast enough. SOP for Combat Engineers.

--
--
---
meport

[meport]

Savage, why not let the rest of us know what kind of radical surgery you
had to have done to yourself to insure world that your shit never
smelled again? Or was the radical surgery a radical rhinoplasty and
you're the only one who benefits from not smelling your obnoxious shit?

--
--
---
meport

[REMF TF2AE]

the engineers in Phu Bai had a dozer they cleared mines in the old, old
part of the perimeter wire. some poor shmuck followed behind with the
metal detector. after finding so many toe poppers and ass poppers and
telling the dozer guy to lower the blade, detector guy and the rest of
the engineers gave the dozer guy a blanket party. I know they had a
dump truck because the ran into the thing with a deuce and a half one
ight after staying too late at the Rocket Inn (don't really recall the
name...did some drinking there) this was 72 and a lot of units by then
were detachments (as were we microwave types) and some didn't know how
they really were part of they were just there...we had become part of
STRATCOM as 1st Signal Bde had moved on to Korea. oh the fun of being
the last guy in a war

[︰ones]

x-no-idiots: yes

On 15 Nov 2016 06:53:34 -0800, in alt.war.vietnam dino

<dino_...@newsguy.com> wrote:

> 15 years ago, yeah, but those assholes are long gone.

Heh, yeah! We deffo have an asshole shortage, I'd assert!

Jones

[dino]

In article <701n2c5r9novq74rn...@4ax.com>, ĄJones says...

'Cept me of course.

[meport]

I was at Phu Bai once. We went there with one of our Tank Companies
when the 101st Airborne needed the tanks for some operation North of Phu
Bai near Camp Evans. We ended up going back to Quang Tri because the
Engineer Bn from the 101st Airborne sent one of their Platoons to
support the Operation and we were sent back to our never ending job of
road clearance and fire base maintenance.

--
--
---
meport

[REMF TF2AE]

there is at least one hand drawn map out there that shoes Evans below
Phu Bai and I couldn't understand that as I thought it to be Jarhead
country. I never lost track of Eagle after the ammo dump blew up and
throwed scrap iron on us in the 8th Radio Research compound. things
were definitely strange in 72. we had Marine pee-lots wheeling their
Frog into Phu Bai like they were in Loaches. they were getting shot at
beaucoup hauling SVN Marines to the fight in Hue and Quang Tri. by the
time they took QT back from NVA it was a pile of rubble. woof

[MarcusAurelius]

No my unit had the highest kill ratio and the highest pacification rate of US Armed Forces in Vietnam while I was in Vietnam and a squad leader with the U.S. Army Infantry there.