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Re: WW2 the STUPID war
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ConsЯcons
Nov 14, 2012, 3:43:04 PM11/14/12
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On 14/11/2012 12:31 PM, Jay Herblock wrote:
> On Nov 14, 2:53 pm, David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>> On 11/14/2012 12:23 PM, Jay Herblock wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 14, 1:39 pm, David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>>> On 11/14/2012 2:47 AM, Jay Herblock wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 13, 10:52 pm, David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/13/2012 8:45 PM, Harold Burton wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> In article <k7tu3h$g9...@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>> David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/13/2012 2:34 AM, Jay Herblock wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>> ...Which of course, leads me back to my previous question, which was:
>>>>>>>>> Why did the Allies declare war against Germany but make the Soviet
>>>>>>>>> Union an Ally?
>>
>>>>>>>> Because they preferred to fight one war at a time, and the Soviets
>>>>>>>> hadn't violated the Munich pact.
>>
>>>>>>> But still they invaded Poland, same as the Germans.
>>
>>>>>> They had never promised that they wouldn't.
>>
>>>>> Yes they had.
>>>>> "On 17 September the Red Army invaded Poland, violating the 1932
>>>>> Soviet Polish Non-Aggression Pact"
>>
>>>> Sorry. I meant of course that they hadn't made any promises to the
>>>> French and British.
>>
>>> How tootey-fruity of you!
>>> No, the soviets made a promise to the Poles not to attack them.
>>
>> So what?
>>
>>>>>> They had never been given
>>>>>> an ultimatum that the allies would then have to follow through on.
>>
>>>>> And the Allies didn't.
>>>>> Instead they invited the soviet barbarians to become their PARTNERS
>>>>> while leaving the Poles to become Red Army bayonet target dummies.
>>
>>>> The alliance with the Soviets came well after the end of the conquest of
>>>> Poland.
>>
>>> Another lie.
>>> The Allies were already discussing a military alliance with Stalin
>>> BEFORE Stalin invaded and liquidated Poland.
>>
>> Discussing and rejecting.
>
> On Nov 14, 2:53 pm, David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>> On 11/14/2012 12:23 PM, Jay Herblock wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 14, 1:39 pm, David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>>> On 11/14/2012 2:47 AM, Jay Herblock wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 13, 10:52 pm, David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/13/2012 8:45 PM, Harold Burton wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> In article <k7tu3h$g9...@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>> David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/13/2012 2:34 AM, Jay Herblock wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>> ...Which of course, leads me back to my previous question, which was:
>>>>>>>>> Why did the Allies declare war against Germany but make the Soviet
>>>>>>>>> Union an Ally?
>>
>>>>>>>> Because they preferred to fight one war at a time, and the Soviets
>>>>>>>> hadn't violated the Munich pact.
>>
>>>>>>> But still they invaded Poland, same as the Germans.
>>
>>>>>> They had never promised that they wouldn't.
>>
>>>>> Yes they had.
>>>>> "On 17 September the Red Army invaded Poland, violating the 1932
>>>>> Soviet Polish Non-Aggression Pact"
>>
>>>> Sorry. I meant of course that they hadn't made any promises to the
>>>> French and British.
>>
>>> How tootey-fruity of you!
>>> No, the soviets made a promise to the Poles not to attack them.
>>
>> So what?
>>
>>>>>> They had never been given
>>>>>> an ultimatum that the allies would then have to follow through on.
>>
>>>>> And the Allies didn't.
>>>>> Instead they invited the soviet barbarians to become their PARTNERS
>>>>> while leaving the Poles to become Red Army bayonet target dummies.
>>
>>>> The alliance with the Soviets came well after the end of the conquest of
>>>> Poland.
>>
>>> Another lie.
>>> The Allies were already discussing a military alliance with Stalin
>>> BEFORE Stalin invaded and liquidated Poland.
>>
>> Discussing and rejecting.
>
ConsЯcons
Nov 14, 2012, 3:43:08 PM11/14/12
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On 14/11/2012 6:25 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 14/11/2012 4:56 AM, Jay Herblock wrote:
>
>>>> On Nov 13, 9:27 am, Dave Smith <adavid.sm...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>>> []
>>>> ...
>>>
>>>>>> "If the French Government feels bound by its commitments to Poland to
>>>>>> enter into the conflict, I can only regret it, for we have no feeling
>>>>>> of hostility towards France. It is only if France attacks us that we
>>>>>> shall fight her, and this would be on her part a war of aggression."
>>>
>>>>> Yep. Fuck you guys. We don't care what you say. We are taking Poland.
>>>
>>>> You must be stupid or some kind of fuckhead Smith. The Germans did NOT
>>>> take Poland.
>>>> Quite obviously your butt-buddies. the stinking russian mongol
>>>> barbarians, took half of Poland.
>>>> A little later on they took all of it - with dumbass US help.
>>>
>>> That's nice. You are too stupid to bother discussing it with.
>>
>> So sorry to have made a lying fool of you, but I did warm you that I
>> would set your ass straight if you didn't stop your lying ways.
>
>
>
> Sorry, but you didn't make a lying fool out of my simply by accusing me
> of lying. You only made a fool of yourself for calling me a liar when I
> am not lying.
>
>>
>> Perhaps we should discuss something else?
>
> I can discuss your idiocy.
>
>
>> Maybe the Soviet gulag death camps of your Soviet allies??
>
> Yep. They were or allies through all the years of the Cold War.
>
> On 14/11/2012 4:56 AM, Jay Herblock wrote:
>
>>>> On Nov 13, 9:27 am, Dave Smith <adavid.sm...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>>> []
>>>> ...
>>>
>>>>>> "If the French Government feels bound by its commitments to Poland to
>>>>>> enter into the conflict, I can only regret it, for we have no feeling
>>>>>> of hostility towards France. It is only if France attacks us that we
>>>>>> shall fight her, and this would be on her part a war of aggression."
>>>
>>>>> Yep. Fuck you guys. We don't care what you say. We are taking Poland.
>>>
>>>> You must be stupid or some kind of fuckhead Smith. The Germans did NOT
>>>> take Poland.
>>>> Quite obviously your butt-buddies. the stinking russian mongol
>>>> barbarians, took half of Poland.
>>>> A little later on they took all of it - with dumbass US help.
>>>
>>> That's nice. You are too stupid to bother discussing it with.
>>
>> So sorry to have made a lying fool of you, but I did warm you that I
>> would set your ass straight if you didn't stop your lying ways.
>
>
>
> Sorry, but you didn't make a lying fool out of my simply by accusing me
> of lying. You only made a fool of yourself for calling me a liar when I
> am not lying.
>
>>
>> Perhaps we should discuss something else?
>
> I can discuss your idiocy.
>
>
>> Maybe the Soviet gulag death camps of your Soviet allies??
>
> Yep. They were or allies through all the years of the Cold War.
>
ConsЯcons
Nov 14, 2012, 3:43:36 PM11/14/12
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ConsЯcons
Nov 14, 2012, 5:18:05 PM11/14/12
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On 14/11/2012 12:58 PM, Barry Bruyea wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 09:30:44 -0500, Dave Smith
> <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 14/11/2012 8:33 AM, Barry Bruyea wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I have to agree with you on this one. There may have been a lot of
>>> reasons not to declare war on the Soviets, but no excuse to making
>>> them an ally. The latter lead to naive FDR believing more in Stalin
>>> than Churchill led mostly by Foggy Bottom who didn't like Churchill.
>>> Letting Germany and the Soviets bleed each other to death would have
>>> been the wiser choice which would have left Eastern Europe with free
>>> countries instead of Soviet Colonies.
>>
>> They were allies only after Hilter turned on them, and it served our
>> purposes to have them pushing at the Germans from a second front. The
>> western ally leaders id not trust them.
>>
>> I don't think it is likely that they would have bled each other to
>> death. What was more likely was that one of them would collapse and be
>> absorbed by the other making an even stronger enemy.
> On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 09:30:44 -0500, Dave Smith
> <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 14/11/2012 8:33 AM, Barry Bruyea wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I have to agree with you on this one. There may have been a lot of
>>> reasons not to declare war on the Soviets, but no excuse to making
>>> them an ally. The latter lead to naive FDR believing more in Stalin
>>> than Churchill led mostly by Foggy Bottom who didn't like Churchill.
>>> Letting Germany and the Soviets bleed each other to death would have
>>> been the wiser choice which would have left Eastern Europe with free
>>> countries instead of Soviet Colonies.
>>
>> They were allies only after Hilter turned on them, and it served our
>> purposes to have them pushing at the Germans from a second front. The
>> western ally leaders id not trust them.
>>
>> I don't think it is likely that they would have bled each other to
>> death. What was more likely was that one of them would collapse and be
>> absorbed by the other making an even stronger enemy.
ConsЯcons
Nov 14, 2012, 7:09:20 PM11/14/12
to
On 14/11/2012 4:04 PM, David Johnston wrote:
> On 11/14/2012 4:47 PM, Jay Herblock wrote:
>
>> Nah, I gotta disagree with you again
>> (I'm really not picking on you, I just want to point out alternate
>> views on the situation)
>>
>> Had the commie butt-licking american Allies saved one of the two
>> atomic bombs that they dropped on Japan - and dropped it on Moskow
> On 11/14/2012 4:47 PM, Jay Herblock wrote:
>
>> Nah, I gotta disagree with you again
>> (I'm really not picking on you, I just want to point out alternate
>> views on the situation)
>>
>> Had the commie butt-licking american Allies saved one of the two
>> atomic bombs that they dropped on Japan - and dropped it on Moskow
ConsЯcons
Nov 14, 2012, 7:09:24 PM11/14/12
to
On 14/11/2012 3:40 PM, Jay Herblock wrote:
> On Nov 14, 5:30 pm, Greg Carr <gregpc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 12:31:08 -0800 (PST), Jay Herblock
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <jayherbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Good grief,
>>> You are wrong AGAIN!
>>
>>> I suggest you go and review some original source material before you
>>> make your snap pronouncements again.
>>
>>> It was the SOVIETS who rejected any further dealings withe the Allies:
>>
>>> "On August 19, the 1939 German Soviet Commercial Agreement was finally
>>> signed.[73] On 21 August the Soviets suspended Tripartite military
>>> talks, citing other reasons.[41][74] That same day, Stalin received
>>> assurance that Germany would approve secret protocols to the proposed
>>> non-aggression pact that would place half of Poland (border along the
>>> Vistula river), Latvia, Estonia, Finland, and Bessarabia in the
>>> Soviets' sphere of influence.[75] That night, Stalin replied that the
>>> Soviets were willing to sign the pact, and that he would receive
>>> Ribbentrop on 23 August.[76]"
>>
>>> Face it.
>>> Your glorious Allies (which includes you toadie Canadians) were a
>>> bunch of inept two faced commie butt-lickers who helped communists
>>> murder millions of innocent European civilians.
>>
>> They didn't murder anyone and they defeated the fascists.
>
> Fascshists mashsists.. what good did that do the US?
> Force it to fight commies for the next fifty years in Korea and
> Vietnam, Cuba and Central America?
>
>> Hats off to
>> the Mackinzie-Papineau brigade for getting an early start on it.
> On Nov 14, 5:30 pm, Greg Carr <gregpc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 12:31:08 -0800 (PST), Jay Herblock
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <jayherbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> You are wrong AGAIN!
>>
>>> I suggest you go and review some original source material before you
>>> make your snap pronouncements again.
>>
>>> It was the SOVIETS who rejected any further dealings withe the Allies:
>>
>>> "On August 19, the 1939 German Soviet Commercial Agreement was finally
>>> signed.[73] On 21 August the Soviets suspended Tripartite military
>>> talks, citing other reasons.[41][74] That same day, Stalin received
>>> assurance that Germany would approve secret protocols to the proposed
>>> non-aggression pact that would place half of Poland (border along the
>>> Vistula river), Latvia, Estonia, Finland, and Bessarabia in the
>>> Soviets' sphere of influence.[75] That night, Stalin replied that the
>>> Soviets were willing to sign the pact, and that he would receive
>>> Ribbentrop on 23 August.[76]"
>>
>>> Face it.
>>> Your glorious Allies (which includes you toadie Canadians) were a
>>> bunch of inept two faced commie butt-lickers who helped communists
>>> murder millions of innocent European civilians.
>>
>> They didn't murder anyone and they defeated the fascists.
>
> Fascshists mashsists.. what good did that do the US?
> Force it to fight commies for the next fifty years in Korea and
> Vietnam, Cuba and Central America?
>
>> Hats off to
>> the Mackinzie-Papineau brigade for getting an early start on it.
ConsЯcons
Nov 14, 2012, 7:09:27 PM11/14/12
to
On 14/11/2012 3:47 PM, Jay Herblock wrote:
> On Nov 14, 5:07 pm, David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>> On 11/14/2012 2:47 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>> was in failing to attack Germany after declaring war on it. Instead
>>>> they sat on their asses hoping that Germany would inexplicably decide
>>>> they didn't really want to be at war after all and agree to pull back.
>>>> They were still afraid to actually go to war.
>>
>>> Some say that the mistake was not attacking when Germany moved troops
>>> into the Rhineland. Germany was not really prepared for war at the
>>> time. Neither were the French. They were recovering from the Depression
>>> and also recovering from having lost a generation of young men in the
>>> trenches.
>>
>> Yeah, I think they're wrong. It would have been difficult to muster any
>> will to win at that point. The result would have probably been
>> indecisive. But had the French attacked while the Germans were
>> attacking Poland, the fact that the German military was committed on the
>> other side would have given them a shot at doing some real damage, and
>> might have given Russia reason to think twice about taking their half of
>> Poland.
> On Nov 14, 5:07 pm, David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>> On 11/14/2012 2:47 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 14/11/2012 1:39 PM, David Johnston wrote:
>>
>>>>> And the Allies didn't.
>>>>> Instead they invited the soviet barbarians to become their PARTNERS
>>>>> while leaving the Poles to become Red Army bayonet target dummies.
>>
>>>> The alliance with the Soviets came well after the end of the conquest of
>>>> Poland. The truth is, of course that the real mistake the allies made
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 14/11/2012 1:39 PM, David Johnston wrote:
>>
>>>>> And the Allies didn't.
>>>>> Instead they invited the soviet barbarians to become their PARTNERS
>>>>> while leaving the Poles to become Red Army bayonet target dummies.
>>
>>>> The alliance with the Soviets came well after the end of the conquest of
>>>> was in failing to attack Germany after declaring war on it. Instead
>>>> they sat on their asses hoping that Germany would inexplicably decide
>>>> they didn't really want to be at war after all and agree to pull back.
>>>> They were still afraid to actually go to war.
>>
>>> Some say that the mistake was not attacking when Germany moved troops
>>> into the Rhineland. Germany was not really prepared for war at the
>>> time. Neither were the French. They were recovering from the Depression
>>> and also recovering from having lost a generation of young men in the
>>> trenches.
>>
>> Yeah, I think they're wrong. It would have been difficult to muster any
>> will to win at that point. The result would have probably been
>> indecisive. But had the French attacked while the Germans were
>> attacking Poland, the fact that the German military was committed on the
>> other side would have given them a shot at doing some real damage, and
>> might have given Russia reason to think twice about taking their half of
>> Poland.
ConsЯcons
Nov 14, 2012, 8:13:21 PM11/14/12
to
On 14/11/2012 4:54 PM, Jay Herblock wrote:
>> Then they would have bombers with three times the range of the
>> historical bombers. Also a war that would have done the nearly
>> impossible job of making Soviet communism look good.
>> historical bombers. Also a war that would have done the nearly
>> impossible job of making Soviet communism look good.
Jay Herblock
Nov 14, 2012, 8:35:02 PM11/14/12
to
On Nov 14, 8:13 pm, ConsЯcons <" Cons/cons"@govt.ca> wrote:
I'll probably regret for asking, but what was your purpose in
repeating some posts .
I'll probably regret for asking, but what was your purpose in
repeating some posts .
ConsЯcons
Nov 18, 2012, 5:36:03 PM11/18/12
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ConsЯcons
Nov 18, 2012, 5:36:38 PM11/18/12
to
On 13/11/2012 4:50 PM, David Johnston wrote:
>>>> Treaty violations were occurring even before Hitler and the Nazis took
>>>> power. German pilots were training in the Soviet Union during the 20's
>>>> in direct violation of Versailles.
>>>> Treaty violations were occurring even before Hitler and the Nazis took
>>>> power. German pilots were training in the Soviet Union during the 20's
>>>> in direct violation of Versailles.
ConsЯcons
Nov 18, 2012, 5:37:08 PM11/18/12
to
On 14/11/2012 5:33 AM, Barry Bruyea wrote:
>> Must be why we chose to ally with the Soviets.
>> Must be why we chose to ally with the Soviets.
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