What are your Top 5 Best Civil War movies
Richard Johnson
Made for TV movies and mini-series.
raymond o'hara
"Richard Johnson" <john...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:RfbUc.9890$Tr.5...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Just curious as to what your top 5 best Civil War movies are. That
includes
> Made for TV movies and mini-series.
>
>
The General with buster keaton.
Glory.
The Red Badge of Courage, both versions.
the Horse Soldiers.
W. G. Davis
"Richard Johnson" <john...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:RfbUc.9890$Tr.5...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Made for TV movies and mini-series.
Gettysburg
Glory
Gods & Generals
Wicked Spring
The Horse Soldiers
Nothing made for TV.
That said, the History Channel is running a series on Great Battles of World History, done in Video Game animation. They are quite excellent. I'd love to see some Civil War battles done that way.
--
Regards,
W. G. Jeff Davis
je...@pa7NOSPAM9th.org
"When soldiers have been baptized
in the fire of a battle-field,
they have all one rank in my eyes."
--Napoleon Bonaparte
Scribe7716
wrote:
>Just curious as to what your top 5 best Civil War movies are. That includes
>Made for TV movies and mini-series.
>
o Glory
o Gettysburg
o Red Badge of Courage
o and then there are none
W. G. Davis
NEWSGROUP SCUMBAG! YOU HAVE NO MORAL INTELLECTUAL, OR
ETHICAL STANDING TO POST HERE. YOU ARE FOSTERING THE
PRESENCE OF A RACIST. CONSIDER WHAT THAT MAKES YOU. AFTER
HAVING PASSED UP A CHANCE TO CLEAN UP YOUR ACT, YOUR
CONTINUED FOSTERING OF THE PRESENCE OF A RACIST HERE LEADS
ANYONE TO THE CONCLUSION THAT YOU ARE A RACIST YOURSELF.
"Scribe7716" <scrib...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20040816232353...@mb-m04.aol.com...
SNIP OF SCRIBBLER'S DRIBBLINGS
GET OFF THIS NEWSGROUP.
YOU AREN'T FIT TO POST HERE!
--
W. G. Jeff Davis
je...@pa7NOSPAM9th.org
"Nothing stings so fiercely as the truth!"
--W. G. Jeff Davis
Walt Appel
> Made for TV movies and mini-series.
Glory
The Red Badge of Courage (The Audie Murphy/Bill Maudlin version)
The Court Martial of Henry Wirz (Made for TV in the 60s?)
Johnny Shiloh (Disney, who really made some great movies way back when)
The Blue and the Gray (miniseries)
Walt
Bruce Martin
Richard Johnson wrote:
> Just curious as to what your top 5 best Civil War movies are. That includes
> Made for TV movies and mini-series.
>
>
>
An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge. Ambrose Bierce. Adapted for TV by
Rod Serling.
I bought _Civil War Stories_, a collection of 16 short stories by
Bierce, at the Chickamauga bookstore. In the first paragraph of the
intro notes, the editors state that 34,000 men died. Other than that, it
was a good read. He was a bit on the pessimistic side.
Dennis Maggard
<mart...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
>Richard Johnson wrote:
>
>> Just curious as to what your top 5 best Civil War movies are. That includes
>> Made for TV movies and mini-series.
>>
>>
>>
>
>An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge. Ambrose Bierce. Adapted for TV by
>Rod Serling.
Ah!!! I remember that one. It was quite good.
Dennis
W. G. Davis
YOU NEVER MET AN OFF TOPIC POST YOU DIDN'T LOVE. WHAT A
LYING HYPOCRITE YOU ARE. NOW YOU PROVE YOURSELF A RACIST!
DENISE, IN ADDITION TO BEING AN ETHICLESS SLUT WHO DOESN'T
KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG, YOU ARE A SPINELESS INTELLECTUAL
COWARD, AND ARE MORALLY BANKRUPT. GET OUT NOW! STAY OUT!
YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO POST ON THIS GROUP WITH YOUR
STUPIDITY AND HYPOCRITICAL POISON. DO NOT EVER COME BACK.
"Dennis Maggard" <dmag...@MAPSONjuno.com> wrote in message news:jgt3i0hclk15nvsnp...@4ax.com...
OFF TOPIC RACIST DRIVEL SNIPPED
GET OUT NOW!
STAY OUT!
YOU ARE NOT MORALLY, ETHICALLY, OR
INTELLECTUALLY EQUIPPED TO POST HERE.
Bert
news:RfbUc.9890$Tr.5...@news20.bellglobal.com...
includes
> Made for TV movies and mini-series.
>
1. Gettysburg
2. Glory
3. North and South minseries
4. Cold Mountain
5. Sommersby
Regards,
Bert
hubcap
>Just curious as to what your top 5 best Civil War movies are. That includes
>Made for TV movies and mini-series.
Gone with the Wind.
Glory.
Gods and Generals.
Gettysburg.
It probably says something that it is hard to come up with five "favorites".
-Mike
hubcap
>4. Cold Mountain
Hey! Add that to my list. Now I've got five.
-Mike
Bob Tiernan
Bruce Martin wrote:
> An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge. Ambrose Bierce.
> Adapted for TV by Rod Serling.
Rod Serling had nothing to do with the making
of this film. Many people assume it since it
was (allegedly) broadcast on Twilight Zone
once (I've found no record of that, but that
wouldn't matter). One reason this short film
is so good is because Serling *didn't* write it.
Bob T
W. G. Davis
"hubcap" <hub...@clemson.edu> wrote in message news:cft4ll$ka2$1...@hubcap.clemson.edu...
GET OUT YOU RACIST PIG. YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE TO PROVE THAT YOU ARE NOT A RACIST, AND FAILED TO DO SO. GET OFF THIS NEWSGROUP. NO RACISTS PERMITTED. ON TOP OF THAT, YOU ARE MORALLY, ETHICALLY AND INTELLECTUALLY UNQUALIFIED TO BE IN PUBLIC. NO ONE WHO USES THE EQUIPMENT AND SYSTEMS OF A MAJOR U.S. UNIVERSITY TO SPREAD RACIST DOGMA HAS A SHRED OF ETHICS.
W. G. Davis
W. G. Davis
"Bob Tiernan" <zulu.pac...@shell1.pacifier.net> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.58MAILDIR...@shell1.pacifier.net...
They are waiting for you in Havana! And Teheran! And Panmunjom! Your choices are getting fewer however. Better go while you can! Need help packing?
Get your anti-American butt out of here now!
Get out! Stay out! Do not come back!
Cash
> Made for TV movies and mini-series.
--------------
- Gettysburg
- The Blue and the Gray
- Glory
- Lincoln [starring Sam Waterston]
- Andersonville
Honorable Mention:
- Shenandoah
- The Horse Soldiers
- The Great Locomotive Chase
- North and South
- Alvarez Kelly
For Comic Relief:
- The General
- They Died With Their Boots On
- Santa Fe Trail
- Under Southern Stars
- Ironclads
Regards,
Cash
James F. Epperson
> Just curious as to what your top 5 best Civil War movies are. That includes
> Made for TV movies and mini-series.
1. Glory --- Yes, it has numerous errors, but it captures so
much of the "full truth" of the story.
2. Horse Soldiers (sorry, Scribe) --- Again, lots of errors, but
I liked the overall effect.
3. Gettysburg --- Too damn many fat Confederates and wristband
tan lines, but a good movie of a great (though
flawed) book.
4. Great Loco Chase --- But then I'm a train buff, too.
5. Andersonville (TV movie) --- Lots to pick at, but did a good job
of showing how horrible the place was.
Movies I didn't include, and why:
Gone with the Wind --- Great piece of film, but the war is only a
backdrop.
Outlaw Josey Wales --- Really a western, but with an ACW background.
Andersonville Trial --- Good piece of TV drama, but the script is very
loose w/ the facts.
I haven't seen Cold Mountain (yet). Maybe it would make my list.
JFE
Scribe7716
wrote:
>2. Horse Soldiers (sorry, Scribe) --- Again, lots of errors, but
> I liked the overall effect.
>
No problem. Adopting Cash's new category, I'd be willing to vote for _Horse
Soldiers_ as one of the funniest ACW movies.
Dennis Maggard
A quick googling shows it to have been TZ episode 142, originally
aired February 8, 1964. It was, however, made some years earlier, in
France, and later acquired and re-edited by CBS for use on TZ, a
voice-over by Rod Serling being added.
Dennis
W. G. Davis
NEWSGROUP SCUMBAG! YOU HAVE NO MORAL INTELLECTUAL, OR
ETHICAL STANDING TO POST HERE. YOU ARE FOSTERING THE
PRESENCE OF A RACIST. CONSIDER WHAT THAT MAKES YOU. AFTER
HAVING PASSED UP A CHANCE TO CLEAN UP YOUR ACT, YOUR
CONTINUED FOSTERING OF THE PRESENCE OF A RACIST HERE LEADS
ANYONE TO THE CONCLUSION THAT YOU ARE A RACIST YOURSELF.
SNIP OF SCRIBBLER'S DRIBBLINGS
GET OFF THIS NEWSGROUP.
YOU AREN'T FIT TO POST HERE!
--
W. G. Davis
YOU NEVER MET AN OFF TOPIC POST YOU DIDN'T LOVE. WHAT A
LYING HYPOCRITE YOU ARE. NOW YOU PROVE YOURSELF A RACIST!
DENISE, IN ADDITION TO BEING AN ETHICLESS SLUT WHO DOESN'T
KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG, YOU ARE A SPINELESS INTELLECTUAL
COWARD, AND ARE MORALLY BANKRUPT. GET OUT NOW! STAY OUT!
YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO POST ON THIS GROUP WITH YOUR
STUPIDITY AND HYPOCRITICAL POISON. DO NOT EVER COME BACK.
OFF TOPIC RACIST DRIVEL SNIPPED
GET OUT NOW!
STAY OUT!
YOU ARE NOT MORALLY, ETHICALLY, OR
INTELLECTUALLY EQUIPPED TO POST HERE.
--
W. G. Davis
YOU DON'T DESERVE TO POST HERE. YOU ARE
NOT UP TO IT ETHICALLY, OR INTELLECTUALLY.
"James F. Epperson" <j...@ams.org> wrote in message news:3ee7efa6.04081...@posting.google.com...
SNIP OF OFF TOPIC IDIOCY THAT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CIVIL WAR!
READ THE CHARTER IDIOT!
--
W. G. Jeff Davis
je...@pa7NOSPAM9th.org
"When looking for a clue as
to why something goes wrong,
never rule out sheer stupidity."
--Groucho Marx
Dennis Maggard
I'll say:
1) Glory
2) Gettysburg
3) The Horse Soldiers
4) The Great Locomotive Chase
5) A near tie between:
Friendly Persuasion
Shenandoah
Hunley
Dennis
Hugh Lawson
What about "Raintree County", based on a novel of the same title by
Ross Lockridge?
I saw it when it first came out, and enjoyed it then, but some of the
movies I liked in my youth now make me cringe (e.g. "Home from the
Hill", which I saw in a sneak preview about 1960).
"Raintree County" doesn't seem to come up often on TV.
--
Hugh Lawson
hla...@triad.rr.com
W. G. Davis
"Hugh Lawson" <hla...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message news:87fz6l2...@desktop.xx.yy...
Get off this newsgroup you racist, yellow bellied cowardly lying fraud. You couldn't make it in the Navy, and you couldn't make it in Academia! You are a life-failure!
You are a moral eunuch. You are scum.
Get out now! Do not come back!
--
W. G. Jeff Davis
je...@pa7NOSPAM9th.org
"If people like me had more unchallenged influence, which must be the
case in lots of countries, then the mutinous populists would have fewer
chances to get their way."
-- Hugh "Red Huey" Lawson
December 18th, 2001
in message: news:slrna1u60q....@localhost.localdomain
W. G. Davis
YOU NEVER MET AN OFF TOPIC POST YOU DIDN'T LOVE. WHAT A
LYING HYPOCRITE YOU ARE. NOW YOU PROVE YOURSELF A RACIST!
DENISE, IN ADDITION TO BEING AN ETHICLESS SLUT WHO DOESN'T
KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG, YOU ARE A SPINELESS INTELLECTUAL
COWARD, AND ARE MORALLY BANKRUPT. GET OUT NOW! STAY OUT!
YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO POST ON THIS GROUP WITH YOUR
STUPIDITY AND HYPOCRITICAL POISON. DO NOT EVER COME BACK.
OFF TOPIC RACIST DRIVEL SNIPPED
GET OUT NOW!
STAY OUT!
YOU ARE NOT MORALLY, ETHICALLY, OR
INTELLECTUALLY EQUIPPED TO POST HERE.
--
W. G. Jeff Davis
je...@pa7NOSPAM9th.org
R. Taubman
news:4121F581...@worldnet.att.net...
Just finished reading "The Union Soldier in Battle, Enduring the Ordeal of
Combat" by Earl J. Hess. Hess talks about those who wrote about their war
experiences and groups them into four categories. Bierce falls into the
second category, author-veterans who completely rejected the "cause".
"They became something of a "lost generation" of the Civil War era,
believing that ideology and patriotism were hollow incentives for war and
that their own lives had been warped by their battle experiences. Viewing
their sacrifices as useless and their youthful enthusiasm for service as
naive, they had clearly lost their faith in the cause." Hess calls Bierce
"embittered".
Trish Winston
Santa Fe Trail
Gettysburg
Glory
Not to be pedantic... well to be very pedantic... you can really only
have one favorite. But these are my top choices, my favorite saying
something about by sense of humor.
-Trish
W. G. Davis
"Trish Winston" <trishw...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message news:4ec4e29a.04081...@posting.google.com...
YOU ARE A SEXIST, LIAR, HYPOCRITE, AND A COWARD. AND YOU ARE TRASH. YOU
DO NOT HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO POST HERE! GET OUT! STAY OUT!
Bert
> of showing how horrible the place was.
Oh, yeah! I had forgotten about Andersonville. Yes, a lot to pick at, but
pretty powerful.
Bert
news:54d4i0t938t4k65pf...@4ax.com...
I had forgotten about the Hunley, which was pretty good despite the really
weird "happy ending" as they all drown. :-) Friendly Persuasion?
Dennis Maggard
Winston) wrote:
>Santa Fe Trail
Ah!!! Ronald Reagan and Eroll Flynn, right?
Dennis
W. G. Davis
YOU NEVER MET AN OFF TOPIC POST YOU DIDN'T LOVE. WHAT A
LYING HYPOCRITE YOU ARE. NOW YOU PROVE YOURSELF A RACIST!
DENISE, IN ADDITION TO BEING AN ETHICLESS SLUT WHO DOESN'T
KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG, YOU ARE A SPINELESS INTELLECTUAL
COWARD, AND ARE MORALLY BANKRUPT. GET OUT NOW! STAY OUT!
YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO POST ON THIS GROUP WITH YOUR
STUPIDITY AND HYPOCRITICAL POISON. DO NOT EVER COME BACK.
OFF TOPIC RACIST DRIVEL SNIPPED
GET OUT NOW!
STAY OUT!
YOU ARE NOT MORALLY, ETHICALLY, OR
INTELLECTUALLY EQUIPPED TO POST HERE.
--
Dennis Maggard
wrote:
It was pretty good, and personally I didn't think the ending all that
strange: the did something like it at the end of The Perfect Storm.
:-) Friendly Persuasion?
Gary Cooper plays an Indiana Quaker at the start of the Civil War. It
has a memorable Quaker style buggy race scene. Morgan's raid finally
tests Cooper's pacifism. Now you remember it!
Dennis
Scribe7716
wrote:
>>Santa Fe Trail
>
>Ah!!! Ronald Reagan and Eroll Flynn, right?
With Raymond Massey as John Brown. Massey ate Flynn and Reagan's lunch in the
movie. Clearly showed the difference between being a real actor and just a
movie star.
W. G. Davis
YOU NEVER MET AN OFF TOPIC POST YOU DIDN'T LOVE. WHAT A
LYING HYPOCRITE YOU ARE. NOW YOU PROVE YOURSELF A RACIST!
DENISE, IN ADDITION TO BEING AN ETHICLESS SLUT WHO DOESN'T
KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG, YOU ARE A SPINELESS INTELLECTUAL
COWARD, AND ARE MORALLY BANKRUPT. GET OUT NOW! STAY OUT!
YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO POST ON THIS GROUP WITH YOUR
STUPIDITY AND HYPOCRITICAL POISON. DO NOT EVER COME BACK.
Ed Frank
> Made for TV movies and mini-series.
1. Glory
2. Glory
3. Glory
4. Glory
5. Gettysburg.
(Which is not to say that Glory is actually a very
good movie.)
EGF
Ed Frank
> "Richard Johnson" <john...@sympatico.ca> writes:
> >Made for TV movies and mini-series.
>
Ever since being dragged by the womenfolk to every
GWTW revival from about 1958 to 1968, I have not
thought of it as a real CW/WBAAWTS movie. More like
a soap opera/love story with a CW/WBAAWTS setting.
> Glory.
> Gods and Generals.
> Gettysburg.
>
> It probably says something that it is hard to come up with five "favorites".
It does seem odd to me that such an important shaping
event in the country's history is so lacking in good
movie treatments.
EGF
W. G. Davis
"Ed Frank" <efr...@memphis.edu> wrote in message news:6beefa4c.04081...@posting.google.com...
Do not reply to racists!
W. G. Davis
NEWSGROUP SCUMBAG! YOU HAVE NO MORAL INTELLECTUAL, OR
ETHICAL STANDING TO POST HERE. YOU ARE FOSTERING THE
PRESENCE OF A RACIST. CONSIDER WHAT THAT MAKES YOU. AFTER
HAVING PASSED UP A CHANCE TO CLEAN UP YOUR ACT, YOUR
CONTINUED FOSTERING OF THE PRESENCE OF A RACIST HERE LEADS
ANYONE TO THE CONCLUSION THAT YOU ARE A RACIST YOURSELF.
SNIP OF SCRIBBLER'S DRIBBLINGS
GET OFF THIS NEWSGROUP.
YOU AREN'T FIT TO POST HERE!
--
Hugh Lawson
> Ever since being dragged by the womenfolk to every
> GWTW revival from about 1958 to 1968, I have not
> thought of it as a real CW/WBAAWTS movie. More like
> a soap opera/love story with a CW/WBAAWTS setting.
Totally true. It's more of a reconstruction story.
You mentioned that there weren't many good movie about acw.
I think movies are poor at representing history of any kind.
--
Hugh Lawson
hla...@triad.rr.com
W. G. Davis
"Hugh Lawson" <hla...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message news:87smalz...@desktop.xx.yy...
Get off this newsgroup you racist, yellow bellied cowardly lying fraud. You couldn't make it in the Navy, and you couldn't make it in Academia! You are a life-failure!
You are a moral eunuch. You are scum.
Get out now! Do not come back!
--
W. G. Jeff Davis
je...@pa7NOSPAM9th.org
Cash
> "Richard Johnson" <john...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<RfbUc.9890$Tr.5...@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> > Made for TV movies and mini-series.
>
>
> - Gettysburg
> - The Blue and the Gray
> - Glory
> - Lincoln [starring Sam Waterston]
> - Andersonville
>
> Honorable Mention:
>
> - Shenandoah
> - The Horse Soldiers
> - The Great Locomotive Chase
> - North and South
> - Alvarez Kelly
>
>
>
> For Comic Relief:
>
> - The General
> - They Died With Their Boots On
> - Santa Fe Trail
> - Under Southern Stars
> - Ironclads
>
> Regards,
> Cash
--------------------
I thought of a couple more honorable mentions:
- Class of '61
- Cold Mountain
Regards,
Cash
Brian Hampton
>It does seem odd to me that such an important shaping
>event in the country's history is so lacking in good
>movie treatments.
In the introduction to a book of short stories with a Civil War theme,
Shelby Foote commented on a similar lack of great fiction, especially
short stories.
--
"We cannot have a free government without elections;
and if the rebellion could force us to forgo, or
postpone, a national election, it might fairly
claim to have already conquered us." - A Lincoln
Brian Hampton
wrote:
>I think movies are poor at representing history of any kind.
Well, yes, but that's not what he's talking about.
Dramatic events the shape a culture also tend to shape and be
reflected in the arts. The lack of good movies about the Civil War is
a part of a larger difficulty in defining how the Civil War shaped the
arts.
raymond o'hara
"Brian Hampton" <bdham...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f4a5i0hp38a1c9eil...@4ax.com...
> On 17 Aug 2004 14:02:26 -0700, efr...@memphis.edu (Ed Frank) wrote:
>
> >It does seem odd to me that such an important shaping
> >event in the country's history is so lacking in good
> >movie treatments.
>
> In the introduction to a book of short stories with a Civil War theme,
> Shelby Foote commented on a similar lack of great fiction, especially
> short stories.
reality has fiction beat hands down for story lines. history already has
mosby and john brown characters hollywod would love to create.
Ed Frank
> On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:36:17 GMT, Hugh Lawson <hla...@triad.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I think movies are poor at representing history of any kind.
>
> Well, yes, but that's not what he's talking about.
Hugh's larger point is valid--GWTW is merely
an instance of the inability of the medium to
do history well.
> Dramatic events the shape a culture also tend to shape and be
> reflected in the arts. The lack of good movies about the Civil War is
> a part of a larger difficulty in defining how the Civil War shaped the
> arts.
I'm not sure I follow this. Please elaborate.
EGF
Howard G
Someone has probably not seen either "Gettysburg" or "Gods and Generals" notable for their
overweight Johnny Rebs, or "Glory" which according to reports on this Newsgroup is flawed
for having the charge in the wrong direction.
Ratings by Columbia House CD price [http://www.columbiahouse.com] or the Internet Movie
Data Base [http://www.imdb.com/]:
Gettysburg 8* 19.95
Gods and Generals 6* 21.95
Glory 8* 19.95
Personally, I received a "Gods and Generals" CD as a premium for postage, packing and
handling for ca $2.98, and I thought myself to have been overcharged.
Additionally, the only cast menber of "Gettysburg" who gave me the impression of being a
charismatic leader with competence was Sam Elliott portraying BGen. John Buford.
Howard G
> efr...@memphis.edu (Ed Frank) writes:
>
> > Ever since being dragged by the womenfolk to every
> > GWTW revival from about 1958 to 1968, I have not
> > thought of it as a real CW/WBAAWTS movie. More like
> > a soap opera/love story with a CW/WBAAWTS setting.
>
> Totally true. It's more of a reconstruction story.
I suggest that Reconstruction hadn't yet started when Scarlet was
snacking on the turnip at the end of the movie.
> You mentioned that there weren't many good movie about acw.
> I think movies are poor at representing history of any kind.
Movies are to history as movie trailers are to the movies.
Howard G
> On 17 Aug 2004 14:02:26 -0700, efr...@memphis.edu (Ed Frank) wrote:
>
> >It does seem odd to me that such an important shaping
> >event in the country's history is so lacking in good
> >movie treatments.
>
> In the introduction to a book of short stories with a Civil War theme,
> Shelby Foote commented on a similar lack of great fiction, especially
> short stories.
"One man's trash is another man's treasure."
Unknown
Hugh Lawson
> Hugh Lawson wrote:
>
> > efr...@memphis.edu (Ed Frank) writes:
> >
> > > Ever since being dragged by the womenfolk to every
> > > GWTW revival from about 1958 to 1968, I have not
> > > thought of it as a real CW/WBAAWTS movie. More like
> > > a soap opera/love story with a CW/WBAAWTS setting.
> >
> > Totally true. It's more of a reconstruction story.
>
> I suggest that Reconstruction hadn't yet started when Scarlet was
> snacking on the turnip at the end of the movie.
Whoa, Howard! Did you get confused and leave at intermission? <G>
Seriously, there's a lot of GWTW after the turnip.
--
Hugh Lawson
hla...@triad.rr.com
W. G. Davis
Dennis Maggard
>hubcap <hub...@clemson.edu> wrote in message news:<cft39n$iug$2...@hubcap.clemson.edu>...
[snip]
>> It probably says something that it is hard to come up with five "favorites".
>
>It does seem odd to me that such an important shaping
>event in the country's history is so lacking in good
>movie treatments.
Which stands in marked contrast to World War II, about which countless
movies have been made and continue to be made.
There is a temptation to say this is because of lingering hard
sectional feelings about the war and not wanting to make a movie which
will not go over well in the South or be accused of being too easy on
the slavery, etc, etc. However, there is also a dearth of movies about
the Revolutionary War which carries no such baggage with it.
Dennis
W. G. Davis
YOU NEVER MET AN OFF TOPIC POST YOU DIDN'T LOVE. WHAT A
LYING HYPOCRITE YOU ARE. NOW YOU PROVE YOURSELF A RACIST!
DENISE, IN ADDITION TO BEING AN ETHICLESS SLUT WHO DOESN'T
KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG, YOU ARE A SPINELESS INTELLECTUAL
COWARD, AND ARE MORALLY BANKRUPT. GET OUT NOW! STAY OUT!
YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO POST ON THIS GROUP WITH YOUR
STUPIDITY AND HYPOCRITICAL POISON. DO NOT EVER COME BACK.
"Dennis Maggard" <dmag...@MAPSONjuno.com> wrote in message
OFF TOPIC RACIST DRIVEL SNIPPED
GET OUT NOW!
STAY OUT!
YOU ARE NOT MORALLY, ETHICALLY, OR
INTELLECTUALLY EQUIPPED TO POST HERE.
--
W. G. Jeff Davis
je...@pa7NOSPAM9th.org
Scribe7716
wrote:
>However, there is also a dearth of movies about
>the Revolutionary War which carries no such baggage with it.
>
And the War of 1812, The Mexican War, WWI, and the Korean War.
Some wars are sexy, some ain't.
Part of the problem with ACW movies is that you have to deal with the devoted.
Portray Lee as something less than Godlike and all the latter day Old Jubes
start sharpening pikes suitable for carrying heads. Portray Lincoln as a
cackling (and was there ever a story teller who didn't do a great deal of
cackling?) main chance politician and the Lincolnians rise up against you.
W. G. Davis
NEWSGROUP SCUMBAG! YOU HAVE NO MORAL INTELLECTUAL, OR
ETHICAL STANDING TO POST HERE. YOU ARE FOSTERING THE
PRESENCE OF A RACIST. CONSIDER WHAT THAT MAKES YOU. AFTER
HAVING PASSED UP A CHANCE TO CLEAN UP YOUR ACT, YOUR
CONTINUED FOSTERING OF THE PRESENCE OF A RACIST HERE LEADS
ANYONE TO THE CONCLUSION THAT YOU ARE A RACIST YOURSELF.
"Scribe7716" <scrib...@aol.com> wrote in message
SNIP OF SCRIBBLER'S DRIBBLINGS
GET OFF THIS NEWSGROUP.
YOU AREN'T FIT TO POST HERE!
--
Hugh Lawson
Because "Birth of a Nation", about 1915 and later, stimulated protests
against the way it portrayed blacks, civil-rights-pressure groups were
on guard when the GWTW movie project was announced. Remember that the
novel was a big best seller and media event; moreover there was a lot
of PR about who would play Scarlett, even before the production began.
There is some scholarship on how this kind of pressure influenced the
making of the film and public reaction to it.
The social-political controversy that surrounded the making of GWTW
continues to shape categories in which it is discussed down to the
present.
--
Hugh Lawson
hla...@triad.rr.com
Dennis Maggard
wrote:
>Dennis Maggard <dmag...@MAPSONjuno.com> writes:
The above elaborates upon my premise but doesn't answer my question.
Let me make it more explicit: Why are there so few movies made about
the Revolutionary War which was also an important shaping event in the
nation's history but does not carry the baggage that the ACW carries?
Dennis
Dimitri Rotov
> Made for TV movies and mini-series.
My first ACW movie was Horse Soldiers - I was a kid and the charge of
the Rebel cadets against John Wayne's cavalry was overwhelming. But
William Holden prototyping "Bones McCoy" was irritating, to say the
least
The only other ACW flick worth mentioning is Ride with the Devil which
was an action movie filmed from Quantrill's army's perspective.
If you want to research how your favorite movie sold, that info is
available on the Internet. I'll quote part of an item from my blog, if
I may. The links are at
http://cwbn.blogspot.com/2004/07/turner-committed-to-last-full-measure.html
>>You can get a sense of the economics of this proposition from "The
Numbers:"
GETTYSBURG
Total US Gross $10,731,997
Production Budget $25,000,000
Gods and Generals
Total US Gross $12,882,934
Production Budget $55,000,000
Here are a couple of non-Turner projects:
Glory
Total US Gross $26,593,580
Production Budget: N/A
Ride with the Devil
Total US Gross $630,779 (Source: "The Numbers")
Production Budget: $38 million (Source: "Box Office Mojo") <<
- Dimitri
http://cwbn.blogspot.com
W. G. Davis
Get off this newsgroup you racist, yellow bellied cowardly lying fraud. You
couldn't make it in the Navy, and you couldn't make it in Academia! You are
a life-failure!
You are a moral eunuch. You are scum.
Get out now! Do not come back!
--
W. G. Jeff Davis
je...@pa7NOSPAM9th.org
W. G. Davis
YOU NEVER MET AN OFF TOPIC POST YOU DIDN'T LOVE. WHAT A
LYING HYPOCRITE YOU ARE. NOW YOU PROVE YOURSELF A RACIST!
DENISE, IN ADDITION TO BEING AN ETHICLESS SLUT WHO DOESN'T
KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG, YOU ARE A SPINELESS INTELLECTUAL
COWARD, AND ARE MORALLY BANKRUPT. GET OUT NOW! STAY OUT!
YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO POST ON THIS GROUP WITH YOUR
STUPIDITY AND HYPOCRITICAL POISON. DO NOT EVER COME BACK.
"Dennis Maggard" <dmag...@MAPSONjuno.com> wrote in message
OFF TOPIC RACIST DRIVEL SNIPPED
GET OUT NOW!
STAY OUT!
YOU ARE NOT MORALLY, ETHICALLY, OR
INTELLECTUALLY EQUIPPED TO POST HERE.
--
W. G. Jeff Davis
je...@pa7NOSPAM9th.org
raymond o'hara
>
> wrote:
>
> >However, there is also a dearth of movies about
> >the Revolutionary War which carries no such baggage with it.
> >
>
> And the War of 1812, The Mexican War, WWI, and the Korean War.
>
> Some wars are sexy, some ain't.
there are many great korean war movies , korean war movies are what viet
nam movies wish they were.
they tend to be social commentaries while mixing in some good action.
Gene Evans seemed to be in half of them. the steel helmet, fix bayonets are
his two best, the bridges at Toko ri and Men of the Fighting Lady are both
good aviation films,
Alan Ladd made the McConnell story about the first U.S. jet ace and he made
a flick with sidney poitier whe sid was a sergeant in the recently
intergrated forces upon who command devolves and Ladd a racist lifer. Korea,
the original pointless war, has it's share of noir classics.
joebuck
"> - Andersonville
Glad to see someone finally mention Andersonville. Although it is probably a
half hour too long, it is a very good CW movie.
Michael Furlan
>Outlaw Josey Wales --- Really a western, but with an ACW background.
Don't forget "The Good, The Bad and the Ugly." Another western with an ACW background.
W. G. Davis
ANY MORE. GET OUT NOW AND STAY OUT! DO NOT COME BACK.
YOU ARE NOT EQUIPPED TO POST HERE.
"Michael Furlan" <mi...@thecivilwargroup.com> wrote in message
news:boh7i01sluhlakma5...@4ax.com...
GET OFF THIS NEWSGROUP NOW AND STAY OFF!
YOU ADD NOTHING OF ANY VALUE, AND YOUR PRESENCE HERE IS
AN OFF TOPIC DISTRACTION. GET OUT NOW! DO NOT COME BACK!
--
W. G. Jeff Davis
je...@pa7NOSPAM9th.org
"Nothing stings so fiercely as the truth!"
--W. G. Jeff Davis
GET OFF THIS NEWSGROUP YOU OFF TOPIC MORON! was:
Howard G
"I'll think of it all tomorrow....After all, tomorrow is another day."
Howard G
> "Richard Johnson" <john...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<RfbUc.9890$Tr.5...@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> > Just curious as to what your top 5 best Civil War movies are. That includes
> > Made for TV movies and mini-series.
>
> My first ACW movie was Horse Soldiers - I was a kid and the charge of
> the Rebel cadets against John Wayne's cavalry was overwhelming. But
> William Holden prototyping "Bones McCoy" was irritating, to say the
> least.
I believe your comparision is an anachronistism. "The Horse Soldiers" was copyrighted in 1959.
"Star Trek" was copyrighted in 1968. This is the oldest copyright I was able to locate.
Mission to Horatius. Written by Mack Reynolds.
Illustrated by Sparky Moore.
Published in 1968 by Whitman Books.
No ISBN, 210 pages
Synopsis: The Enterprise has been on patrol too long--the crew is restless and irritable especially that Dr.
McCoy, the engines are straining, and food is running low. But Captain Kirk is under sealed orders to head to the
far away Horatius system to answer a mysterious distress call from some decidedly anti-Federation colonists. When
our intrepid crew tries to help, they run afoul of stone-age creeps, drugged fanatics, and oppressed clones. To make
matters worse, they face a moral conflict with Federation General Order One, the so-called Prime Directive, which
mandates noninterference with native cultures.
This book was originally intended for young readers
http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/~curtdan/Novels/NoFrames.html#N1
raymond o'hara
"Howard G" <Rambl...@xyz.net> wrote in message
news:4123D9D4...@xyz.net...
> Dimitri Rotov wrote:
>
> > "Richard Johnson" <john...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:<RfbUc.9890$Tr.5...@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> > > Just curious as to what your top 5 best Civil War movies are. That
includes
> > > Made for TV movies and mini-series.
> >
> > My first ACW movie was Horse Soldiers - I was a kid and the charge of
> > the Rebel cadets against John Wayne's cavalry was overwhelming. But
> > William Holden prototyping "Bones McCoy" was irritating, to say the
> > least.
>
> I believe your comparision is an anachronistism. "The Horse Soldiers" was
copyrighted in 1959.
>
> "Star Trek" was copyrighted in 1968. This is the oldest copyright I was
able to locate.
prototyping means doing it first not copying , '59 is well before '68 , so
we can infer he meant holdens annoying doctor was doing the bones{"i'm only
a doctor,dammit!"} routine first, a prototype is a pre manufacture example.
Brian Hampton
>Hugh's larger point is valid--GWTW is merely
>an instance of the inability of the medium to
>do history well.
I wasn't saying his point wasn't valid, just that it was a different
point than the one I believed you were making. FWIW, I should have
added to my comments some notation of that.
>> Dramatic events the shape a culture also tend to shape and be
>> reflected in the arts. The lack of good movies about the Civil War is
>> a part of a larger difficulty in defining how the Civil War shaped the
>> arts.
>
>I'm not sure I follow this. Please elaborate.
Which part? You want one dissertation or two? :-)
The post-Civil War era is commonly known as the Era of Realism,
particularly in literature. But what is realism? Ask twenty
different people, and you'll get twenty different answers. Ask a
European and an American literary critic that question, and you may
have a fight. Further, what happens when you add naturalism into the
mix? Is it realism with a particular focus, or is it a separate and
distinct movement? Once you've tackled those questions, then ask
yourself what the relationship between the Civil War and realism is
and how is it reflected in either realism or naturalism or both. Then
ask why many of the so-called great works of post-Civil War fiction
came so long after the war itself. Finally, if your brain hasn't
turned to mush yet, consider the interpretive school of thought that
views post-Civil War literature through the lens of moralism.
I'm not really asking for answers to those questions or for them to be
pondered in any great detail. (To do so would at least require me to
define my terms.) I just ask the questions to note that the questions
exist. When you get into them, defining what influence the Civil War
had on the arts becomes a convoluted subject. One can easily point to
the realists as the common face of post-war literature, but not in the
same way one can point to, say, the writers after the first World War
as reflecting a specific mood or critiquing the culture in a specific
way. Henry James and Mark Twain were both realists, but they wrote
vastly different types of literature. The same kind of post-WWI
grouping doesn't show the same kinds of variances.
What that has to do with my initial statement is this. Movies about
historical periods are almost always at the same time a reflection of
the society in which those movies were made and an interpretation, by
now sometimes a re-interpretation, of the art that came out of the
period being depicted. And here is where those mind numbing questions
come into play. Post-Civil War literature didn't by and large focus
on the war. The so-called great literature of the period is more
commonly known for being shaped by the fast pace of industrial
expansion and the society it created. Certainly this is related to
the war, but not in so clear a way as, again using the post-WWI
example, the fiction of the Lost Generation is related to WWI. We
have had a lot of movies that reflect this turn in post-CW literature,
but few see them as CW inspired movies because the links are at least
one-step removed.
Put more succinctly, the lack of movies about the war directly is at
least in part due to the lack of literature directly about the war.
So, the question becomes in my mind, why was there such a lack of
great CW inspired literature. I have the beginnings of a pondering on
that, but I'll refrain and just say that David Blight's book _Race and
Reunion_, along with some discussions I had with William Piston,
helped shape my theory.
BTW, if anyone actually read this and is moved to note the exceptions,
I'll go ahead and say that I am aware of the exceptions. Walt
Whitman, for example, did write quite a lot of Civil War poetry.
(Although, it's notable a lot of people don't know that.) But, in my
view, these are exceptions that prove the rule.
Brian Hampton
<john...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Just curious as to what your top 5 best Civil War movies are. That includes
>Made for TV movies and mini-series.
Nothing unusual here...
Glory
Shenandoah
The Horse Soldiers
Cold Mountain
Gettysburg
Ed Frank
EGF
Brian Hampton <bdham...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<o768i0dipboumiu1e...@4ax.com>...
Hugh Lawson
> There is a temptation to say this is because of lingering hard
> sectional feelings about the war and not wanting to make a movie which
> will not go over well in the South or be accused of being too easy on
> the slavery, etc, etc. However, there is also a dearth of movies about
> the Revolutionary War which carries no such baggage with it.
Here's an Amazon listmania list of acw-background movies.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-/2QZXJ8VQYEL73/104-0209524-5075929
--
Hugh Lawson
hla...@triad.rr.com
W. G. Davis
Get off this newsgroup you racist, yellow bellied cowardly lying fraud. You
couldn't
make it in the Navy, and you couldn't make it in Academia! You are a
life-failure!
You are a moral eunuch. You are scum.
Get out now! Do not come back!
--
W. G. Jeff Davis
je...@pa7NOSPAM9th.org
2of3
YOU CAN ACT LIKE A GROWNUP!!
"W. G. Davis" <je...@pa7MAPSON9th.org> wrote in message news:<yZidnTYXhdV...@adelphia.com>...
> "Richard Johnson" <john...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:RfbUc.9890$Tr.5...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > Just curious as to what your top 5 best Civil War movies are. That
> includes
> > Made for TV movies and mini-series.
>
>
> Gettysburg
> Glory
> Gods & Generals
> Wicked Spring
> The Horse Soldiers
>
> Nothing made for TV.
>
> That said, the History Channel is running a series on Great Battles of
> World History, done in Video Game animation. They are quite excellent.
> I'd love to see some Civil War battles done that way.
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> W. G. Jeff Davis
> je...@pa7NOSPAM9th.org
> "Nothing stings so fiercely as when I abuse myself!"
> -- W.G. Jeff Davis
Hugh Lawson
Brian Hampton:
> > Put more succinctly, the lack of movies about the war directly is at
> > least in part due to the lack of literature directly about the war.
> > So, the question becomes in my mind, why was there such a lack of
> > great CW inspired literature. I have the beginnings of a pondering on
> > that, but I'll refrain and just say that David Blight's book _Race and
> > Reunion_, along with some discussions I had with William Piston,
> > helped shape my theory.
> >
> > BTW, if anyone actually read this and is moved to note the exceptions,
> > I'll go ahead and say that I am aware of the exceptions. Walt
> > Whitman, for example, did write quite a lot of Civil War poetry.
> > (Although, it's notable a lot of people don't know that.) But, in my
> > view, these are exceptions that prove the rule.
Daniel Aaron has a book on this question: _The Unwritten War_, which
I've read but largely forgotten. Here is a review that sounds about
right.
http://www.southernscribe.com/reviews/literary_criticism/unwritten_war.htm
Some may be repelled by the "southern" aspect of this review, but it's
easy to strip it off, and inessential to the reviewer's commentary on
Aaron's book.
--
Hugh Lawson
hla...@triad.rr.com
hubcap
>>an instance of the inability of the medium to
>>do history well.
147 articles Message-ID: <20030312195210...@mb-mj.aol.com>
It is real easy to say that Gone With the Wind "didn't do history well".
But through the years that this newsgroup has run, that's about all
anyone has ever done. Any attempt to get someone to enumerate some credible
errors always fails. The "best" I've found anyone say is
something like, "Oh it was based on Dunning, QED".
But most discussions are like the above 147 article thread. By
the 3rd article Howard's calling someone a wanker and by
article 70 or so Wayne is complaining about being slandered as a
homosexual. Very little or nothing to to with GWTW.
So... it seems that we have to accept that Gone With the Wind, a love
story about Scarlett and Rhett, set partially during Lincoln's war and
partially during the Reconstruction embroglio, does a fine
job of portraying history.
That is, unless someone can enumerate some examples of errors.
-Mike
W. G. Davis
Get off this newsgroup you racist, yellow bellied cowardly lying fraud. You
couldn't
make it in the Navy, and you couldn't make it in Academia! You are a
life-failure!
You are a moral eunuch. You are scum.
Get out now! Do not come back!
--
W. G. Jeff Davis
je...@pa7NOSPAM9th.org
W. G. Davis
OUT NOW!
STAY OUT! DO NOT EVER COME BACK YOU PIECE OF ROTTEN RACIST GARBAGE!
"hubcap" <hub...@clemson.edu> wrote in message
news:cg2f0c$9no$1...@hubcap.clemson.edu...
GET OUT YOU RACIST PIG. YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE TO PROVE THAT YOU ARE NOT A
RACIST, AND FAILED TO DO SO.
GET OFF THIS NEWSGROUP. NO RACISTS PERMITTED. ON TOP OF THAT, YOU ARE
MORALLY, ETHICALLY AND
INTELLECTUALLY UNQUALIFIED TO BE IN PUBLIC. NO ONE WHO USES THE EQUIPMENT
AND SYSTEMS OF A MAJOR
U.S. UNIVERSITY TO SPREAD RACIST DOGMA HAS A SHRED OF ETHICS.
--
W. G. Jeff Davis
je...@pa7NOSPAM9th.org
Howard G
I see my error, but the character as portrayed by Mr Holden, "Maj. Henry 'Hank'
Kendall," was the prototype of "Bones McCoy" as portrayed by DeForest Kelly.
William Holden was not the prototype of either DeForest Kelly or "Bones McCoy."
Mr Holden did sow some wild oats, but he wasn't old enough to be Mr Kelly's
"prptotype." [;-)
raymond o'hara
his character was though ,
Brian Hampton
> Daniel Aaron has a book on this question: _The Unwritten War_, which
> I've read but largely forgotten. Here is a review that sounds about
> right.
>
> http://www.southernscribe.com/reviews/literary_criticism/unwritten_war.htm
Thanks for the link. I haven't read that.
This line, taken from the review, states my theory in a very simple way:
"Daniel Aaron’s contention in The Unwritten War, his survey of American
literary responses to the Civil War, is that *a desire to forget*
[emphasis added] is largely responsible for the fact that, despite
inspiring mountains of novels, essays, poems epic and lyric, short
stories, letters, and diaries, the Civil War has never produced a
'masterpiece.'"
[snip]
I also agree with the contention that Faulkner is the *possible*
exception. It's one of the reasons he fascinates me so. The basic
problem with fitting Faulkner into the mold of a writer whose work is
influenced directly by the war is how long after the war he wrote. That
he was so influenced is unmistakable, and that leads to questions of
distinctiveness in Southern literature.
narrl...@hotmail.com
> >>an instance of the inability of the medium to
> >>do history well.
>
> 147 articles Message-ID: <20030312195210...@mb-mj.aol.com>
>
> It is real easy to say that Gone With the Wind "didn't do history well".
Yes, it is ;-)
> But through the years that this newsgroup has run, that's about all
> anyone has ever done. Any attempt to get someone to enumerate some credible
> errors always fails. The "best" I've found anyone say is
> something like, "Oh it was based on Dunning, QED".
>
> But most discussions are like the above 147 article thread. By
> the 3rd article Howard's calling someone a wanker and by
> article 70 or so Wayne is complaining about being slandered as a
> homosexual. Very little or nothing to to with GWTW.
>
> So... it seems that we have to accept that Gone With the Wind, a love
> story about Scarlett and Rhett, set partially during Lincoln's war and
> partially during the Reconstruction embroglio, does a fine
> job of portraying history.
>
> That is, unless someone can enumerate some examples of errors.
How about a very basic one? The Tara of the book IIRC,
like most plantation homes, was an overgrown dogtrot
structure. In the movie, it became almost a palace.
Maybe it was dramatically and visually better to
present it that way, but it wasn't very historical.
IMHO.
EGF
W. G. Davis
<narrl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e189dd18.04081...@posting.google.com...
racist loing drivel snipped!
Howard G
> hubcap <hub...@clemson.edu> wrote in message news:<cg2f0c$9no$1...@hubcap.clemson.edu>...
> > >>Hugh's larger point is valid--GWTW is merely
> > >>an instance of the inability of the medium to
> > >>do history well.
> >
> > 147 articles Message-ID: <20030312195210...@mb-mj.aol.com>
> >
> > It is real easy to say that Gone With the Wind "didn't do history well".
>
> Yes, it is ;-)
>
> > But through the years that this newsgroup has run, that's about all
> > anyone has ever done. Any attempt to get someone to enumerate some credible
> > errors always fails. The "best" I've found anyone say is
> > something like, "Oh it was based on Dunning, QED".
> >
> > But most discussions are like the above 147 article thread. By
> > the 3rd article Howard's calling someone a wanker and by
> > article 70 or so
By article seven let alone seventy the postings are already drifting off subject. By
article 70, at least half are CAPITAL letter postings by WGD making a variety of harebrain
and vacuous assertions, accusations, or requests.
In the opposite way he reminds me of a speeding morotist. What does the motorist do with
the time he saves, accumulate it and take a vacation? What better use could WGD do with
all the times he wastes posting his inanities on this Newsgroup?
How [can you improve] thee? Let me count the ways.
Elizabeth Barrett Browning (1806-1861) from Sonnets from the Portuguese.
XLIII.
Howard G
> > "pr[o]totype." [;-)
> >
> >
>
> his character was though ,
Isn't that what I said, or am I hard of hearing? I'm [:-( that you didn't
comprehend my humor.
raymond o'hara
if that's humour you need a doctor to reset your funny bone.
hubcap
>How about a very basic one? The Tara of the book IIRC,
>like most plantation homes, was an overgrown dogtrot
>structure. In the movie, it became almost a palace.
I live just miles away from where Tara was supposed to be. Our
ground is red clay. In Pendleton, South Carolina, there were
around 40 named plantations that could be described as
"Greek Temples on the hill". I was the caretaker at Woodburn
Plantation for around three years.
http://www.scgenealogy.com/pickens/history/historic_woodburn_plantation_hou.htm
Ashtabula is now owned by the same preservation society:
http://www.scgenealogy.com/pickens/history/historic_ashtabula_house.htm
The house at Seneca plantation burned in the 30's, and is gone, as
are so many of the other houses. But the architecture students at
Clemson made measured drawings of many of them in the 20's and 30's.
I have copies of the measured drawings of Seneca plantation, and
some photos (complete with model T's the yard), and it was jaw
droppingly beautiful. Twelve Oaks beautiful. Here's some measured
drawings of Altamont 2 that were done at the same time:
http://www.clemson.edu/trails/history/photos/Altamont2.jpg
In the book, as I remember, Tara started out as a simple little
house, and built up and modified over time.
General Andrew Pickens' home at Hopewell plantation, also known
as "The Cherry place" started out as a log cabin:
http://www.clemson.edu/trails/history/photos/CherryPlace.jpg
The Cherry Place doesn't look like much in the above picture
during the depression, but Woodburn was a wreck then, and
several indigent families lived there. The story I read about
the meetings around Mr. Cherry's long table during Reconstruction
would make a very good basis for the meetings that Ashley
and the other concerned citizens had in the movie. The Cherry Place
looks fine now, and sits on a commanding knoll above lake Hartwell.
John C. Calhoun's place had similar humble beginnings. It was a
tiny house, and they say Calhoun's wife added a wing every time
he left town:
http://www.clemson.edu/tour/pages/building_site_pages/ft_hill.htm
Some of the houses had plank walls, and some had Italian marble
mantles, but they were hardly "dog-trots". Not that there's anything
wrong with a dog trot. I went to an auction 15 or 20 years ago where
an unaltered dog trot was being sold in Pickens county. I wish I'd
been in a position to buy it.
Some of the older plantation houses around here were quite simple,
but this was the middle of nowhere in 1800:
http://www.clemson.edu/trails/history/photos/Major-House.jpg
Most of the houses are gone now. Boscobel, Longhouse, Keowee plantation,
Grumblethorpe Hall, Rivoli. But they were like the houses in the movie, and
the families that lived at them were like the families in the movie...
well, the people in the movie were cartoons, but still... I've read the
memoirs of Floride Clemson and Clarissa Bowen from Ashtabula and
Dr. Adger from Woodburn, and many other bits and pieces, and they're a fine
basis for the "dramatically enhanced" people in the movie.
>Maybe it was dramatically and visually better to
>present it that way, but it wasn't very historical.
>IMHO.
And the above is just my opinion. What does "very historical" mean?
Actual closeups of realistic looking battlefield gore? I'd rather
see fat Confederates fall over dead when the gun goes bang, like
in Gods and Generals. People with brown teeth who didn't know
about germs and the importance of washing your hands? I'd rather
see Vivian Leigh.
But we're starting to talk about what the historical flaws
in Gone With the Wind are, and nobody's a wanker. That's
a good thing.
-Mike
Howard G
Read the punch line again:
'Mr Holden did sow some wild oats, but he wasn't old enough to be Mr Kelly's
"pr[o]totype." [;-)'
W. G. Davis
OUT NOW!
STAY OUT! DO NOT EVER COME BACK YOU PIECE OF ROTTEN RACIST GARBAGE!
"hubcap" <hub...@clemson.edu> wrote in message
news:cg5dgv$q10$1...@hubcap.clemson.edu...
GET OUT YOU RACIST PIG. YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE TO PROVE THAT YOU ARE NOT A
RACIST, AND FAILED TO DO SO.
GET OFF THIS NEWSGROUP. NO RACISTS PERMITTED. ON TOP OF THAT, YOU ARE
MORALLY, ETHICALLY AND
INTELLECTUALLY UNQUALIFIED TO BE IN PUBLIC. NO ONE WHO USES THE EQUIPMENT
AND SYSTEMS OF A MAJOR
U.S. UNIVERSITY TO SPREAD RACIST DOGMA HAS A SHRED OF ETHICS.
--
narrl...@hotmail.com
risen from poverty to middling-planter status; by
the time of the movie, they had been transformed
into the very top economic elite. (Maybe I'm wrong,
and if so, I expect to be corrected.)
Anyway, Mike, as I've said for years my horror of
GWTW the Movie has much more to do with the repeated
exposures to it inflicted in my childhood, by silly
and not-very-well-read women insisting it was a
'great movie about the Woah.'
Maybe objectivity in this case is impossible for me ;-)
EGF
hubcap <hub...@clemson.edu> wrote in message news:<cg5dgv$q10$1...@hubcap.clemson.edu>...
Dennis Maggard
(narrl...@hotmail.com) wrote:
>My impression was that the O'Haras in the book had
>risen from poverty to middling-planter status; by
>the time of the movie, they had been transformed
>into the very top economic elite. (Maybe I'm wrong,
>and if so, I expect to be corrected.)
But that's a criticism of the movie not being true to the book, not an
example of the movie, or the book, distorting history.
Dennis
W. G. Davis
YOU NEVER MET AN OFF TOPIC POST YOU DIDN'T LOVE. WHAT A
LYING HYPOCRITE YOU ARE. NOW YOU PROVE YOURSELF A RACIST!
DENISE, IN ADDITION TO BEING AN ETHICLESS SLUT WHO DOESN'T
KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG, YOU ARE A SPINELESS INTELLECTUAL
COWARD, AND ARE MORALLY BANKRUPT. GET OUT NOW! STAY OUT!
YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO POST ON THIS GROUP WITH YOUR
STUPIDITY AND HYPOCRITICAL POISON. DO NOT EVER COME BACK.
"Dennis Maggard" <dmag...@MAPSONjuno.com> wrote in message
news:64tei0turdmnvlug0...@4ax.com...
OFF TOPIC RACIST DRIVEL SNIPPED
GET OUT NOW!
STAY OUT!
YOU ARE NOT MORALLY, ETHICALLY, OR
INTELLECTUALLY EQUIPPED TO POST HERE.
W. G. Davis
<narrl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e189dd18.04082...@posting.google.com...
You are a tacit racist. There is zero tolerance for racists and those who
cozy
up to them. Get off this newsgroup and do not ever come back.
2of3
DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY
ON AND ON AND ON AND ON - TO WHAT END??
"W. G. Davis" <je...@pa7KNUJON9th.org> wrote in message news:<Hcidnemoy5J...@adelphia.com>...
> YOU JUST LOVE PROVING ME RIGHT ABOUT YOU, DON'T YOU DENISE.
> YOU NEVER MET AN OFF TOPIC POST YOU DIDN'T LOVE. WHAT A
> LYING HYPOCRITE YOU ARE. NOW YOU PROVE YOURSELF A RACIST!
> DENISE, IN ADDITION TO BEING AN ETHICLESS SLUT WHO DOESN'T
> KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG, YOU ARE A SPINELESS INTELLECTUAL
> COWARD, AND ARE MORALLY BANKRUPT. GET OUT NOW! STAY OUT!
> YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO POST ON THIS GROUP WITH YOUR
> STUPIDITY AND HYPOCRITICAL POISON. DO NOT EVER COME BACK.
> "Dennis Maggard" <dmag...@MAPSONjuno.com> wrote in message
> news:64tei0turdmnvlug0...@4ax.com...
> OFF TOPIC RACIST DRIVEL SNIPPED
>
>
>
> I AM NOT MORALLY, ETHICALLY, OR INTELLECTUALLY EQUIPPED TO POST HERE.
>
> "Nothing stings so fiercely as when I abuse myself!"
Bob Tiernan
> Bob Tiernan wrote:
> > Bruce Martin wrote:
> >> An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge. Ambrose Bierce.
> >> Adapted for TV by Rod Serling.
> > Rod Serling had nothing to do with the making
> > of this film. Many people assume it since it
> > was (allegedly) broadcast on Twilight Zone
> > once (I've found no record of that, but that
> > wouldn't matter). One reason this short film
> > is so good is because Serling *didn't* write it.
> A quick googling shows it to have been TZ episode 142, originally
> aired February 8, 1964. It was, however, made some years earlier,
> in France, and later acquired and re-edited by CBS for use on TZ,
> a voice-over by Rod Serling being added.
I've heard for yers that this was shown as a Twilight
Zone once but never seems to be in the re-run package.
Still, Serling had zero to do with the making of
this short film. Fortunatley, the copies we were shown
in school in the early 70s were the original w/o
Serling's voice etc (the latter having nothing at all
to do with the *making* of this short film.
Bob T
W. G. Davis
place to stink up!
"Bob Tiernan" <zulu.pac...@shell1.pacifier.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58MAILDI...@shell1.pacifier.net...
They are waiting for you in Havana! And Teheran! And Panmunjom! Your
choices are getting fewer however. Better go while you can! Need help
packing?
Get your anti-American butt out of here now!
Get out! Stay out! Do not come back!
--
W. G. Jeff Davis
narrl...@hotmail.com
True. I surrender: GWTW the Movie was an accurate
rendition of Southern life in the era of the ACW
and its immediate aftermath ;-).
It's still sucky, though ;-)
EGF
W. G. Davis
<narrl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e189dd18.04082...@posting.google.com...
You are a tacit racist. There is zero tolerance for racists and those who
cozy up to them. Get off this newsgroup and do not ever come back.
--
Bob Tiernan
> With Raymond Massey as John Brown. Massey ate Flynn and Reagan's lunch
> in the movie. Clearly showed the difference between being a real actor
> and just a movie star.
Errol Flynn was a fine actor if people saw past
the movie star image. I mean, we're not talking
about a garbage movie star like Harrison Ford here.
Bob T