SVHS vs SVHS ET ?
Mr 3D
Technology" to achieve
SVHS standard on VHS tape, are actually as good as a true SVHS. Can a real
SVHS tape be
played back on them at true SVHS 400 line resolution and can they tape at
true SVHS resolution.
They seem incredibly cheap if they can.
Also since I am trying to copy a SVHS NTSC -> SVHS NTSC tape (and I'm based
in the UK),
I believe that I am going to HAVE to buy 2 NTSC decks to achieve this. I
would love it if I could
by a PAL S-VHS deck (JVC 76000) and somehow tweak its NTSC4.43 output back
down
to NTSC 3.58 for recording on a single American NTSC deck. At least then I
could use the
PAL deck to record edited footage off my PAL camcorder. Any ideas ?
I have seen devices that seem to do something similar but they take NTSC
3.58 and push it up to
NTSC.4.43, or take PAL and pull it down to 3.58, I need 4.43to 3.58.
Eric
> Can anyone tell me if the cheaper S-VHS vcrs that use the "Extended
> Technology" to achieve
> SVHS standard on VHS tape, are actually as good as a true SVHS. Can a real
> SVHS tape be
> played back on them at true SVHS 400 line resolution and can they tape at
> true SVHS resolution.
> They seem incredibly cheap if they can.
VCRs that support SVHS-ET can record in three modes:
(1) SVHS (with a true SVHS tape.)
(2) SVHS-ET (with a standard VHS tape - hopefully premium grade.)
(3) Standard VHS (with a standard VHS tape.)
On my Mitsubishi HS-U795 (hardly a "cheap" VCR), SVHS-ET is very close
to "real" SVHS. SVHS-ET *has* the same resolution as SVHS.
EK
--
[Remove "boy" from address for email.]
Mr 3D
>
> (1) SVHS (with a true SVHS tape.)
> (2) SVHS-ET (with a standard VHS tape - hopefully premium grade.)
> (3) Standard VHS (with a standard VHS tape.)
>
> On my Mitsubishi HS-U795 (hardly a "cheap" VCR), SVHS-ET is very close
> to "real" SVHS. SVHS-ET *has* the same resolution as SVHS.
so why do many of the cheap SVHS decks I'm looking at actually turn out to
be
"ET" ones.. ?
I was looking at (a non ET one) JVC 76000 that is around $399, I then found
a
Sharp VC-S101U for $239, which is a "ET" type !
Since I'm buying these decks for the sole purpose of copying NTSC S-VHS
tapes
I'm obviously wanting to keep the cost per deck down..
jaz...@my-deja.com
"Mr 3D" <mar...@miscs.com> wrote:
> Also since I am trying to copy a SVHS NTSC -> SVHS NTSC tape
>(and I'm based in the UK),
> I believe that I am going to HAVE to buy 2 NTSC decks to achieve
> this. I would love it if I could
> by a PAL S-VHS deck (JVC 76000) and somehow tweak its NTSC4.43
> output back down
> to NTSC 3.58 for recording on a single American NTSC deck.
Hello - I am in the UK too (Suffolk), so I can sympathise with you
in this situation.
but remember - there are PAL machines that plyback pure NTSC3.58
When I was looking at SVHS decks the JVC ones didn't, but the
panasonic ones did output pure ntsc ...
I have the singapore JVC svhs recorver (5500AM) which is
multi-standard, but only records pure NTSC in svhs mode :-(
Your best bet would be a panasonic UK machine for ntsc playback
and a prober ntsc machine for record -probably 120V mains :(
NTSC4.43-3.58 converters cost a bit of money that would be best
spend on the vcr's
check before you buy though
Jason
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Eric
> so why do many of the cheap SVHS decks I'm looking at actually turn out to
> be
> "ET" ones.. ?
A SVHS VCR can support SVHS-ET or not. This has little to do with final
overall price, which is often determined by other, costlier features.
> I was looking at (a non ET one) JVC 76000 that is around $399,
The JVC HR-S7600U *does* have SVHS-ET. It also has other features that
result in a higher cost than the Sharp.
See http://www.jvcusa.com/vcrs/super_vhs.html
> I then found
> a
> Sharp VC-S101U for $239, which is a "ET" type !
You keep referring to a ET "type". ET is just one of many features a SVHS
VCR might or might not have. Other features (i.e. flying erase heads) add
more to the price than does SVHS-ET support.
Mr 3D
> You keep referring to a ET "type". ET is just one of many features a SVHS
> VCR might or might not have. Other features (i.e. flying erase heads) add
> more to the price than does SVHS-ET support.
Ok, it seems that maybe I have gotten the wrong impression of this
technology from
the advertising bumf...
I suppose my real question is .. if I buy the sharp then will it act as a
SVHS player
recorder.. i.e. will it play SVHS tapes and record SVHS tapes.. I'm not
interested in
the "ET" feature so much as finding a cheap SVHS recorder.
In fact I've just found a site selling a JVC HR-s3600u for $200 !
I can't believe that I could get an true SVHS VCR for such a small amount !
Mr 3D
> > in this situation.
> > When I was looking at SVHS decks the JVC ones didn't, but the
> > panasonic ones did output pure ntsc ...
Ahh haa.. that sound like its exactly what I need. I didn't
relise that _ANY_ PAL recorder gave out pure NTSC.. I've heard about
a few VHS models that do but not found any S-VHS decks that have this
feature.I'll have a look around on the website and give their tecnical
support line a call... thanks for the tip :)
> > I have the singapore JVC svhs recorver (5500AM) which is
> > multi-standard, but only records pure NTSC in svhs mode :-(
How did you get hold of it.. did you import it yourself ?
Being that it WILL record NTSC then if I had one of these and
a Panasonic then I would have the best of all worlds NTSC->NTSC
and PAL->PAL ???
> > Your best bet would be a panasonic UK machine for ntsc playback
> > and a prober ntsc machine for record -probably 120V mains :(
The JVC's appealed to me because JVC will honour the warrentry of
a deck bought in the USA and also the picture quality of the
JVC HS76000 is suppose to be superb. I dont know about Panasonics
I will have to investigate.
Since I can pick up an American deck when we go on vaction in a few
months.. the cost is very cheap. A JVC HS76000 can be had for $300
(that about £193!!)
> > NTSC4.43-3.58 converters cost a bit of money that would be best
> > spend on the vcr's
I assume from this comment that they do exist.. I've seen 3.58 -> 4.43
and I've seen pal -> 3.58 but not found a 4.43 -> 3.58. I've found
convertor units that will handle it at VHS resolution but not S-VHS
and anyway I dont want a NTSC->PAL conversion I want a straight NTSC
to NTSC copy..
jaz...@my-deja.com
"Mr 3D" <mar...@miscs.com> wrote:
> > > I have the singapore JVC svhs recorver (5500AM) which is
> > > multi-standard, but only records pure NTSC in svhs mode :-(
>
> How did you get hold of it.. did you import it yourself ?
I saw it in Tottenham Court road and parted with a lot of money
(too much really) (www.ask2.com)
> Being that it WILL record NTSC then if I had one of these and
> a Panasonic then I would have the best of all worlds NTSC->NTSC
> and PAL->PAL ???
Yes !! That was my plan but I've held off the second vcr
purchase as I kinda like the look of this D-VHS thing ..
> Since I can pick up an American deck when we go on vaction in a few
> months.. the cost is very cheap. A JVC HS76000 can be had for $300
> (that about £193!!)
You may have to pay ~£40 tax bringing it into the country (it's
quite big to hide ...)
> I assume from this comment that they do exist.. I've seen 3.58 -> 4.43
> and I've seen pal -> 3.58 but not found a 4.43 -> 3.58. I've found
> convertor units that will handle it at VHS resolution but not S-VHS
> and anyway I dont want a NTSC->PAL conversion I want a straight NTSC
> to NTSC copy..
Wether they handle 'SVHS quality' is questionable. Checkout the
small one for £399 from 'lektropacks' (?) it only has composite
video in and out - but I've given up on s-video as I can't see any
performance increase over composite and it makes video switching
complex ...
Is this $200 JVC mail order ?? If so I wouldn't mind knowing the
URL.
Also the SVHS ET function just saves you having to make the holes
in the normal VHS tapes yourself (!!!) As all vhs media degrades
over time I'd avoid this for long term archives .. It'll probably
degrade quicker.
also, as I don't know many people in the UK using NTSC SVHS I
have to ask .... anime ?
Eric
> I suppose my real question is .. if I buy the sharp then will it act as a
> SVHS player
> recorder.. i.e. will it play SVHS tapes and record SVHS tapes.. I'm not
> interested in
> the "ET" feature so much as finding a cheap SVHS recorder.
The Sharp is a SVHS VCR which has SVHS-ET support as one of its features.
> In fact I've just found a site selling a JVC HR-s3600u for $200 !
> I can't believe that I could get an true SVHS VCR for such a small amount !
You better read past threads that occurred here concerning the HR-S3600U.
ACK!
James T. Kirk
Mr 3D <> schreef in > > I assume from this comment that they do exist.. I've
seen 3.58 -> 4.43
> and I've seen pal -> 3.58 but not found a 4.43 -> 3.58. I've found
> convertor units that will handle it at VHS resolution but not S-VHS
> and anyway I dont want a NTSC->PAL conversion I want a straight NTSC
> to NTSC copy..
The Thomson VPH 6990 and 7090 both will record and play PAL ànd NTSC, they
are sold in the UK, the price for the 7090 must be around 270 Pound. They
are considered very good (JVC technology) and the 7090 at least can play
S-VHS tapes, You will have the benefit of 220/240 V and UK garantee! See
www.thomson-europe.com
--
_________________________________Jim
~A wise man will make more opportunities than he finds.
-- Francis Bacon~
Mr 3D
and the stated that they didn;t do any.. they output NTSC 4.43
Bummer !
I've also rang around many video stores etc and basically everyone says
that they don't know of ANY multistandard S-VHS machines..
> > Being that it WILL record NTSC then if I had one of these and
> > a Panasonic then I would have the best of all worlds NTSC->NTSC
> > and PAL->PAL ???
I suppose for the above statement to be true now.. I would need TWO
mulitstandard VCRs..
> Yes !! That was my plan but I've held off the second vcr
> purchase as I kinda like the look of this D-VHS thing ..
It'll all go recordable DVD soon anyway.. :)
> Is this $200 JVC mail order ?? If so I wouldn't mind knowing the
> URL.
I think it was www.shopping.com or www.800.com
or it might have been www.ecost.com
> Also the SVHS ET function just saves you having to make the holes
But are we saying that any VCR that has the SVHS-ET feature MUST by
definition be a proper SVHS dec i.e. play SVHS tapes and record SVHS tapes
that other SVHS players can play.
>
> also, as I don't know many people in the UK using NTSC SVHS I
> have to ask .... anime ?
No..
The reason I want NTSC is that I have a growing collection of field
sequential 3D video
tapes , but they are NTSC. In order to build my collection I need to trade
with others.
Aaron
and looked up those VCRs. Neither even mentioned SVHS once in either of
their descriptions. It might have quasi-SVHS playback but that would give
you VHS resolution from a SVHS tape. However, it did not advertise
quasi-SVHS so I would assume it doesn't have even that. Anyway, only their
VSH models are SVHS. The VSH 2080G is the only one with a TBC, and a TBC is
necessary for recording from NTSC to PAL because of the frame rate
difference. Just because it has TBC doesn't mean it uses it for frame rate
conversion, however, and it doesn't say it does. It only says it can play
NTSC on a PAL TV, and that might be assuming it's a multistandard TV which I
guess most are now over there. It doesn't say any more details, which I
think is pretty pathetic.
-Aaron
USA
James T. Kirk <j-a...@hatespam.dds.nl> wrote in message
news:8bvrb1$5ukfn$1...@reader2.wxs.nl...
Rauf Siddiqi
James T. Kirk
Aaron <schreef in > Just for the heck of it and because it seemed too cheap,
I went to the site
> and looked up those VCRs. Neither even mentioned SVHS once in either of
> their descriptions. It might have quasi-SVHS playback but that would give
> you VHS resolution from a SVHS tape. However, it did not advertise
> quasi-SVHS so I would assume it doesn't have even that.
I finally got their (deluxe) brochure which states that it has quasi SVHS
playback, both models mentioned (6990 and 7090) and the 7090 has it even
written on the front.
Anyway, only their
> VSH models are SVHS. The VSH 2080G is the only one with a TBC, and a TBC
is
> necessary for recording from NTSC to PAL because of the frame rate
> difference.
You might be right. I had the salesperson check at the importers' and it has
the possibility to record PAL ànd NTSC but not from PAL to NTSC or vice
versa. That was a disappointment for me too, as I want to send NTSC tapes
from our little boy (to his grandparents in the States ) which are now on
PAL video 8. If I had some kind of transforming unit, I might be able to
record in NTSC at least with those recorders!
Just because it has TBC doesn't mean it uses it for frame rate
> conversion, however, and it doesn't say it does. It only says it can play
> NTSC on a PAL TV, and that might be assuming it's a multistandard TV which
I
> guess most are now over there. It doesn't say any more details, which I
> think is pretty pathetic.
That SVHS machine is just a Thomson version of a SVHS JVC I think. And TBC,
AFAIK, has not much to do in this case with the possibility of transforming
one standard into another, which the brochure states, it cannot. Only the
6990 and 7090 can, and I have to admit, these, with their plain fronts (only
a power/standby button) and everything else behind front covers, are very
attractive.
Concluding: If there would be a inexpensive "electronic box" that converts
PAL to NTSC signal, we would be ready with one of those machines.
--
_________________________________Jim
~Some folks never exaggerate--they just remember big.
-- Audrey Snead~
Aaron
<snip>
> Concluding: If there would be a inexpensive "electronic box" that converts
> PAL to NTSC signal, we would be ready with one of those machines.
The problem is, there is not an inexpensive box or everybody would have one.
A TBC is necessary to do standards conversion from PAL to NTSC because,
besides the color difference, the frame rate is completely different. NTSC
in US and Japan are 30 frames per second and PAL in Europe is mostly 25
frames per second. Each frame needs to be stored in memory and played back
to the recorder. From PAL to NTSC, every so often a frame is repeated and
from NTSC to PAL every so often a frame is dropped. This act of a frame
being stored into memory is what a TBC does. TBC's are expensive and so
inexpensive "electronic boxes" don't exist.
-Aaron
USA
John
Mr 3D wrote:
>
>
> Can anyone tell me if the cheaper S-VHS vcrs that use the "Extended
> Technology" to achieve
> SVHS standard on VHS tape, are actually as good as a true SVHS. Can a
real
> SVHS tape be
> played back on them at true SVHS 400 line resolution and can they tape at
> true SVHS resolution.
> They seem incredibly cheap if they can.
>
based
> in the UK),
> I believe that I am going to HAVE to buy 2 NTSC decks to achieve this. I
> would love it if I could
> by a PAL S-VHS deck (JVC 76000) and somehow tweak its NTSC4.43 output
back
> down
I
> could use the
> PAL deck to record edited footage off my PAL camcorder. Any ideas ?
> I have seen devices that seem to do something similar but they take NTSC
> 3.58 and push it up to
> NTSC.4.43, or take PAL and pull it down to 3.58, I need 4.43to 3.58.
>
>
VCR's which are available in Australia and most of Asia may well do the
job. There are only two models that do SVHS-ET, they are the HR-S5600AM
and HR-S7600AM. The HR-S5500AM as mentioned in the earlier post does not
have ET capabilities. Go to http://www.jvc-australia.com and check out the
features and spec's on these machines.
>
I do have two new HR-S5600AM machines (purchased Jan 2000) which I was
intending to sell locally (Aust). If you are interested you can contact me
via my e-mail address.
John
--
Posted via CNET Help.com
http://www.help.com/
James T. Kirk
James T. Kirk
Aaron <> schreef in >
> James T. Kirk <> wrote in > <snip>
> > Concluding: If there would be a inexpensive "electronic box" that
converts
> > PAL to NTSC signal, we would be ready with one of those machines.
>
> The problem is, there is not an inexpensive box or everybody would have
one.
> A TBC is necessary to do standards conversion from PAL to NTSC because,
> besides the color difference, the frame rate is completely different.
NTSC
> in US and Japan are 30 frames per second and PAL in Europe is mostly 25
> frames per second. Each frame needs to be stored in memory and played
back
> to the recorder. From PAL to NTSC, every so often a frame is repeated and
> from NTSC to PAL every so often a frame is dropped. This act of a frame
> being stored into memory is what a TBC does. TBC's are expensive and so
> inexpensive "electronic boxes" don't exist.
It's a mess! What a humongous stupidity to have different systems in the
world.
--
Jim
The Netherlands