Tivo Roamio and Tuning Adapter Incompatibility?

[Robert King]

Hello TiVo Users,

I have a new TiVo Roamio Plus which I am trying to get on-line with Cox
Cable. I have successfully installed a Multistream CableCard as required,
but the the Roamio does not want to recognize the in-line Cox-supplied
Motorola Tuning Adapter. The Tuning Adapter is necessary for use with Cox's
Switched Digital (SDV) digital program distribution system.

Anyone else have this problem with the Roamio unable to recognize a Motorola
Tuning Adapter? I have tried 3 Tuning Adapters so-far without success.
Starting to think this is a problem of Roamio incompatibility with these
tuning adapters.

Bob K

[QN]

Well, you might try calling TIVO's technical support.


"Robert King" <robt...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:545fff12$0$55987$b1db1813$46de...@news.astraweb.com...

[Chris Adams]

Once upon a time, <g...@rr.com> said:
>Usually, at least with Comcast, you don't need any adapter when you
>use a cable card. It replaces the adapter. Did you try connecting
>without any adapter.

I don't think you understand what a "tuning adapter" is; what you say is
not true at all. A tuning adapter (where needed) is used in addition to
a cablecard. This is not an old-style cable box.

TAs are used with switched digital video cable systems. In a
traditional cable system, all the channels are on the wire all the time;
the cablecard is used to get the channel map and decrypt the streams.
In an SDV system, not all of the channels are continuously transmitted
to all locations. Usually, the most commonly watched channels are
always there, but the other channels are only transmitted from a given
headend when requested. That's where a TA comes into play.

A TA connects to the cable, and via USB to a TiVo. The channel map
received by the cablecard flags a channel as SDV, so when the TiVo wants
to tune that channel, it signals the TA to request it from the headend.
The headend picks a frequency/stream ID, sends that to the TA, and,
starts transmitting the channel. The TA then tells the TiVo where to
find the requested channel.

Since only a portion of the channels are transmitted from a headend at
any given time, there is more bandwidth available (for more channels,
old analog channels, Internet, etc.). Some cable companies have gone
with SDV to increase available bandwidth, as opposed to going all
digital (no analog channels), using higher frequencies, switching to
MPEG4 (higher compression ratios), etc.

TiVo and Comcast are reportedly working on a "next-generation" system
that would support SDV without a TA, by doing the signalling over the
Internet (like they do for OnDemand today).
--
Chris Adams <cma...@cmadams.net>

[Gordon Burditt]

> Since only a portion of the channels are transmitted from a headend at
> any given time, there is more bandwidth available (for more channels,
> old analog channels, Internet, etc.). Some cable companies have gone
> with SDV to increase available bandwidth, as opposed to going all
> digital (no analog channels), using higher frequencies, switching to
> MPEG4 (higher compression ratios), etc.

So what happens when the couple of thousand people (of hundreds of
thousands of customers) who like watching unpopular channels (say,
the Temperature Channel, The Lions v. Christians Rerun Channel, The
Amoeba Racing Channel, The Watching Grass Grow Channel, The Watching
Paint Dry Channel, The Colonoscopy Channel, The Antarctica Elementary
School Dodgeball League Channel, etc.) all tune to their own favorite
channels (which no one else is watching) at the same time and there
isn't any more bandwidth? Do they get an error message? The wrong
channel? The channel they want with a refresh rate of one frame
per minute and a resolution of 4.8i? A refund?

[Drew Lawson]

In article <Cp6dna6nKfqM1RfJ...@posted.internetamerica>

Gordon Burditt <gor...@hammy.burditt.org> writes:
>> Since only a portion of the channels are transmitted from a headend at
>> any given time, there is more bandwidth available (for more channels,
>> old analog channels, Internet, etc.). Some cable companies have gone
>> with SDV to increase available bandwidth, as opposed to going all
>> digital (no analog channels), using higher frequencies, switching to
>> MPEG4 (higher compression ratios), etc.
>
>So what happens when the couple of thousand people (of hundreds of
>thousands of customers) who like watching unpopular channels (say,
>the Temperature Channel, The Lions v. Christians Rerun Channel, The
>Amoeba Racing Channel, The Watching Grass Grow Channel, The Watching
>Paint Dry Channel, The Colonoscopy Channel, The Antarctica Elementary
>School Dodgeball League Channel, etc.) all tune to their own favorite
>channels (which no one else is watching) at the same time and there
>isn't any more bandwidth?

The late comers lose.

I have had a couple occasions that may be explained by related
problems. I am not supposed to have problems, as I am still on
analog cable. However, I've had several times when I set TiVo to
record something on PBS and ended up with a home shoping channel.
(No, it wasn't just a pledge drive.)

The cable companies are supposed to size the head ends and down-stream
population to match, but there is some modeling and inexact stuff
in there.

Of course, DVRs with oodles of simultaneous tuners don't make this
easier for the cable companies.

>Do they get an error message? The wrong
>channel? The channel they want with a refresh rate of one frame
>per minute and a resolution of 4.8i? A refund?

There is probably an error message available to the TiVo, but the
main thing is that the channel isn't there. The rest is screen
painting.


--
Drew Lawson | I told them we had learned to change
| our swordblades into plows.
| I told them they should learn from us
| what should I tell them now?

[Gordon Burditt]

>>So what happens when the couple of thousand people (of hundreds of
>>thousands of customers) who like watching unpopular channels (say,
>>the Temperature Channel, The Lions v. Christians Rerun Channel, The
>>Amoeba Racing Channel, The Watching Grass Grow Channel, The Watching
>>Paint Dry Channel, The Colonoscopy Channel, The Antarctica Elementary
>>School Dodgeball League Channel, etc.) all tune to their own favorite
>>channels (which no one else is watching) at the same time and there
>>isn't any more bandwidth?
>
> The late comers lose.

And boy will the late comers scream if the watchers of unpopular
channels get up early (or set their DVRs to record), claim their
channels, and the late comers can't get the Super Bowl. That's
unlikely to happen unless there is some kind of conspiracy that
involves knowing how to game the system. I presume there are some
manual controls to avoid that.

Now that I think of it, the Lions v. Christians Rerun Channel sounds
like it might be a popular "reality TV" show, kinda like "Survivor
- Roman Empire". Except Survivor rarely has much gore, and what
little there is gets mostly hidden by the medical staff. Come to
think of it, they already did "Survivor - Roman Empire" on Star
Trek: TOS.

> I have had a couple occasions that may be explained by related
> problems. I am not supposed to have problems, as I am still on
> analog cable.

Maybe your analog head-end is fed by a digital head-end with dynamic
channel assignment?

> However, I've had several times when I set TiVo to
> record something on PBS and ended up with a home shoping channel.
> (No, it wasn't just a pledge drive.)

It should be easy to tell the difference between a pledge drive
and a shopping channel.

> The cable companies are supposed to size the head ends and down-stream
> population to match, but there is some modeling and inexact stuff
> in there.

Exact or not, it's about HOW OFTEN (not IF) they deny someone a
channel they want.

It seems to me that unless the design allows them to transmit the
minimum of (all the channels they've got or will have) and (one
channel per customer or DVR tuner they've got or will have), they
*WILL* screw up and deny someone the channel they want. If they
meet the criteria for never denying channels, they can use fixed
assignments.

They can make that happening rare, like maybe once a year, but not
eliminate it. Period. That's not necessarily a bad thing - fully
supporting all possible traffic will cost a lot. Phone companies
do the same thing for picking up the phone and getting (or not
getting) dial tone or making calls to certain cities and not running
out of long-distance trunks and giving fast-busy. And on days like
Mother's Day or the day of a big earthquake in California (even if
there's no phone infrastructure damage), they give out fast-busies
to some callers. Even 911 is not designed to never make a caller
wait. Also, they certainly don't have 10,000 fire trucks for a
town with 10,000 houses, just in case they are needed.

> Of course, DVRs with oodles of simultaneous tuners don't make this
> easier for the cable companies.

>>Do they get an error message? The wrong
>>channel? The channel they want with a refresh rate of one frame
>>per minute and a resolution of 4.8i? A refund?
>
> There is probably an error message available to the TiVo, but the
> main thing is that the channel isn't there. The rest is screen
> painting.

So it sounds like they get the wrong channel, from your PBS example.

I might get really upset if I tried to record a PBS show for my
kids and ended up getting a porn channel, especially if it didn't
come with content-labelling so the parental controls don't work.
The kids might be really annoyed if the parental controls DID work
and apparently locked them out of their favorite show.
Some people might like this feature as they might occasionally
get a pay-per-view channel without paying for it.

I understand that there are a number of parents who limit TV viewing
by their kids to PBS, period, on the grounds that they want time
spent watching TV to be educational, not just age-appropriate, so
their 13-year-old can't watch something TV-Y or the evening news
if it's not on PBS. They may not use the ratings, as they expect
PBS not to broadcast inappropriate content. Of course, there is a
lot of violence in cartoons ... Have any kids ever tried emulating
what "Itchy and Scratchy" do to each other on "The Simpsons" and
ended up killing each other with hatchets, chain saws, nail guns,
huge knives, etc.?

[Drew Lawson]

In article <8OmdndrTArVJdxLJ...@posted.internetamerica>

gordon...@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) writes:

>>>Do they get an error message? The wrong
>>>channel? The channel they want with a refresh rate of one frame
>>>per minute and a resolution of 4.8i? A refund?
>>
>> There is probably an error message available to the TiVo, but the
>> main thing is that the channel isn't there. The rest is screen
>> painting.
>
>So it sounds like they get the wrong channel, from your PBS example.

My example was not using a tuning adaptor, so no information was
available to the TiVo.

I honestly don't know what TiVo does if the TA gets an error response.
But I know if it tries to record when I don't have signal, it just
drops the recording. The history listing says something about not
being able to tune.

I would suspect that TiVo does something similar with a TA error.

--
Drew Lawson | We were taking a vote when
| the ground came up and hit us.
| -- Cylon warrior