Noise sources
TJ
With DIGITAL TV????? Yep, snow.
My kitchen TV is a 25-year-old (or so) Zenith. It has built-in,
pull-them-out-of-the-cabinet rabbit ears, and 300-ohm screw terminals
for attaching the antenna to the set, with a separate set of screw
terminals for UHF. These screw terminals are about an inch from the base
of the rabbit ears, and a pigtail comes from them to attach to the
terminals. No internal attachment.
When I set up the set for digital, I used a twin-lead combiner balun to
connect the rabbit ears and clipped-on bow tie signals together, so that
I could use the analog pass-through feature of the Digital Stream
converter to watch analog if the digital went out. When analog finally
went away, and with it the need for the rabbit ears, I just lazily left
the connection as it was, since everything was working fine.
Until today. By necessity, I had to put a 75-to-300 balun between the
converter output cable and the TV. This balun, also by necessity, lies
right next to the rabbit ear that is holding up the bowtie. Moving that
cable a little eliminated the snow, thus identifying the culprit.
Many people don't realize that when an antenna receives a signal,
whether it be noise or intelligible, a small part of that signal is
re-radiated back into the air, the amount depending on the design of the
antenna. Because my rabbit ear is still connected, it would be
re-radiating part of any VHF noise it might pick up. Being so close to
the base of the rabbit ear, if some of that noise is on channel 4 it
could be picked up by that short pigtail on the balun, and sent to the
TV tuner right along with the signal from the converter.
Removing the twin-lead combiner and the connection to the rabbit ears,
and replacing it with a single balun to the bowtie should eliminate the
snow. Without that pesky VHF noise in the mix going to the converter, it
might improve digital reception, too - but that may be a stretch. I'll
try it later today, and report back on the results.
My point with this rambling story is that noise and interference can
come from many places, and get into your system where you don't expect.
When you have an interference problem, it would be wise to check every
possibility you can think of, even those that you think shouldn't be a
problem.
TJ
robinlos
Please remember, TJ, that an analog TV with a DTV converter is still
an analog TV. Not to stretch a point, but, I am amazed at how better
a digital reciever displays a picture than an analog reciever using a
converter. .Even if the picture information is solid to conversion, it
still becomes NTSC before being displayed. What converters provide is
a really good NTSC picture, not a digital one..
TJ
>
> Please remember, TJ, that an analog TV with a DTV converter is still
> an analog TV. Not to stretch a point, but, I am amazed at how better
> a digital reciever displays a picture than an analog reciever using a
> converter. .Even if the picture information is solid to conversion, it
> still becomes NTSC before being displayed. What converters provide is
> a really good NTSC picture, not a digital one..
Well...yeah. I don't remember implying that it's anything else. That's
why the snow showed up, because there was interference injected into the
NTSC signal from the converter AFTER it had left the converter. That was
an important part of my point.
Apparently I was somehow incorrect when I attempted to explain my
experience in a way that even the most non-technical among us can
understand. Sure a digital receiver will show a better picture than a
converter/analog combo will. But while my converter/analog combo won't
show the best picture possible, the one it does show is excellent as far
as I'm concerned, it cost me less than $30, and I didn't have to send a
still-working piece of electronics to the local landfill. A sound
financial condition is much more important to me than watching "perfect" TV.
TJ
WhiteTea77581
With my analog set and a converter, a small amount of snow started
after the stations went digital.
I am thinking that stations were boosting power and then cut back on
it.
The picture is still way better than before.
I am considering the power usage of my analog set.
It's a 13-inch and it draws 1200 watts compared to about 100 watts for
a 26-inch LCD set.
Andy
UCLAN
> I am considering the power usage of my analog set.
> It's a 13-inch and it draws 1200 watts compared to about 100 watts for
> a 26-inch LCD set.
Wow! 1.2KW on a 13-inch set?
WhiteTea77581
I had an interesting experience with a 19-inch set.
The set had not been used for about 5 years.
I was salvaging some parts from it.
Using some insulated wire cutters, I cut a wire going to the picture
tube.
I won't be doing that again. :-)
I wish my NiMh batteries held a charge that long.
Andy
WhiteTea77581
Sorry, I made a mistake.
It draws 1.0 amp which makes the power usage 120 watts.
Andy
robinlos
OK. Its possible someone is more caredful with money than I am, but,
I've known few who might qualify. My only point was that snow just
doen't seem likely with DTV. I've never seen it on a DTV reciever,
And I guess there's one more point. Analog TV is far from gone.
Millions of us seem to have it working daily. The difference is the
analog is now more or less closed rather than broadcast. I have a
DTV reciever which was the first reciever I purchased for about 20
years. I guess I felt like I needed a TV, and the purchase was cheeper
than putting an older one back into shape. I respect your conservation
of resources, TJ, , and, I more or less do the same, often being
refered to by names that are not flattering.
TJ
I'd love to cover the roof of my barn with solar panels. It's a big old
barn, with a steep roof and lots of area. Most of the time, I'd be
selling power to the power company, rather than the other way around.
But I'm not about to do that any time soon, because at 60 I probably
wouldn't see any return on the huge capital investment within my lifetime.
If the only reason you're considering buying an LCD set is the lower
power usage, that's false economy. It'll take many hours of viewing to
get the cost of that new set back. Of course, there are many other good
reasons to buy a new TV - better picture, bigger screen, wide screen,
old set unreliable - the list goes on and on. And if you're going to buy
a new set for one or more of those reasons, an energy saver is the way
to go. But unless you're using a big old vacuum tube console set, power
usage alone isn't a good enough reason, in my book.
TJ
TJ
>
> OK. Its possible someone is more caredful with money than I am, but,
> I've known few who might qualify. My only point was that snow just
> doen't seem likely with DTV. I've never seen it on a DTV reciever,
> And I guess there's one more point. Analog TV is far from gone.
> Millions of us seem to have it working daily. The difference is the
> analog is now more or less closed rather than broadcast. I have a
> DTV reciever which was the first reciever I purchased for about 20
> years. I guess I felt like I needed a TV, and the purchase was cheeper
> than putting an older one back into shape. I respect your conservation
> of resources, TJ, , and, I more or less do the same, often being
> refered to by names that are not flattering.
Chuckle. I've heard a few of those. One friend who has drifted away once
told me I was being too "miserly" when I was considering a certain
purchase some ten years ago. Now, though, that guy doesn't know if he'll
still have a job next month, while mine is as secure as the farm I own.
I'm still "miserly," and he's in debt. Which is better off?
A good question, and I don't really know the answer. Life takes many an
unexpected turn over the years, and you deal with each as best you can.
TJ
robinlos
One's experiences in life tell the tale. I'm sure that the only answer
is the one that each of us is sure is right for us.
Someone caught me "cooking" some bearing greae a couple of weeks ago.
I told him the commerical stuff wasn't thick enough or sufficiently
hydrophobic for my bearings. He could not believe I imagined I could
make better grease than I could buy. .Well, in this case, my grease
costs more to make than what I could buy, but, being cheep in itself
can be false economy. I hate buying bearings, and I hate setting them.
The bottom line is always the bottom line.
R. Mark Clayton
"robinlos" <robi...@icdus.com> wrote in message
news:40cf0d77-a186-452e...@x5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 1, 9:11 am, TJ <T...@noneofyour.business> wrote:
> This morning, I noticed some snow on my kitchen TV. SNOW, you say???
> With DIGITAL TV????? Yep, snow.
>
> come from many places, and get into your system where you don't expect.
> When you have an interference problem, it would be wise to check every
> possibility you can think of, even those that you think shouldn't be a
> problem.
>
> TJ
Please remember, TJ, that an analog TV with a DTV converter is still
an analog TV. Not to stretch a point, but, I am amazed at how better
a digital reciever displays a picture than an analog reciever using a
converter. .Even if the picture information is solid to conversion, it
still becomes NTSC before being displayed. What converters provide is
a really good NTSC picture, not a digital one..
AS long as the TV has RGB in (e.g. Scart on this side of the pond) and the
DTV RGB out then the picture will fine.
I think you 25 YO set may be junk...
Daniel Who Wants to Know
news:IY-dnfRJ3eEIlNDX...@bt.com...
>
> AS long as the TV has RGB in (e.g. Scart on this side of the pond) and the
> DTV RGB out then the picture will fine.
>
> I think you 25 YO set may be junk...
>
The problem there is that no CECB in the states has anything higher than
S-Video (SVHS) output and most don't even have that. The coupon program
forbids features such as SPDIF, RGB, DVI, HDMI, and component video.
It still amazes me how a $30 cheapie DVD player can have progressive scan
via component video and digital audio outputs as standard features but a $50
CECB can't. They're both MPEG-2 decoders, 1 just has an optical drive and
the other has a tuner as the source feeding the decoder.
TJ
>
> I think you 25 YO set may be junk...
>
>
about my opinion MUCH more than I care about yours.
TJ
NoOp
I have a small Sharp 13N-M100B (2001 build) in my office that I thought
was junk. Connected to the Comcast wall mounted cable I'd get horrible
snow & junk - other TV was clear as could be. I'd pound on the thing
because sometimes the picture would be clear as could be, but typically
in the evening it would snow over on most channels that I wanted to
watch. Oddly enough other channels (channel 7, discovery channel 29 etc)
would be clear.
Drove me to the brink of calling in the 'cable guy' recently as I was
having issues just getting the new DTA to sync up. He replaced the
splitter in the garage with no luck. I then had him swap the cable to
the one going to the living room (one we only use during holidays when
we have company) & that TV, an MGM Mitsubishi CS-1970 (yes that's as in
the year 1970) sync'ed right in and displays pictures as clear as the
day someone brought it home from the store. The DTA remote even
worked... Magic!
Given that the cable from the garage to the office is the culprit & I
just don't want to go through a rewiring job just now, I instead
connected the Insignia converter box to the Sharp in the office.
Connected a 10 ft. cable to the antenna input & stuck a bowtie on the
end. Final result is that there was/is absolutely nothing wrong with the
Sharp TV; the signals from the Insignia are clear as can be. And here
all this time I was blaming the TV & the actual problem is the cable.
K. B.
<T...@noneofyour.business> posted:
>This morning, I noticed some snow on my kitchen TV. SNOW, you say???
>With DIGITAL TV????? Yep, snow.
The (switching) power supply that came with my Sunkey CECB
causes interference in the pictures of nearby TVs connected
via RF (both channel 3 and 4) connections.
Kirk Bayne
alt.video.digital-tv Home Page
<http://avdtv.tripod.com/avdtv.htm>
GMAN
I bet its not the cable but the F connectors on one or both ends. Did the
cable guy try to replace both ends?
NoOp
> In article <0Bc3m.4149$Rb6....@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com>, NoOp <gl...@sbcglobal.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> Given that the cable from the garage to the office is the culprit & I
>>just don't want to go through a rewiring job just now, I instead
>>connected the Insignia converter box to the Sharp in the office.
>>Connected a 10 ft. cable to the antenna input & stuck a bowtie on the
>>end. Final result is that there was/is absolutely nothing wrong with the
>>Sharp TV; the signals from the Insignia are clear as can be. And here
>>all this time I was blaming the TV & the actual problem is the cable.
>>
>>
>
>
> I bet its not the cable but the F connectors on one or both ends. Did the
> cable guy try to replace both ends?
Yep. When the weather cools down I'll pull the cable. Had a mouse
problem in the garage roof crawlspace a few years back & my guess is
that one of them may have decided to give it a taste test. Before I do
I'll buy new cable (the one installed is over 15 years old) & test from
the new splitter before routing through the walls etc.
In the meantime, the Insignia converter & bowtie do a pretty good job...
I generally only use the TV for morning & evening news, the rest of the
time it's just low volume background noise :-)