Truthsayers
Sanguinar1
I am not trying to be a guru, dudes...What I am doing is trying to increase
people's awareness that there is something out there that causes people to be a
certain way. If anybody has advice on how to do it differenly, then please
email me!
The other reason I do it it so that others who have the something might run
across my stuff and link up. I don't care if you all think I'm psycho.--In
fact, if I weren't me, I'd think it to...
I'm psycho, but I'm still a vampire or whatever it is that I'm supposed to be
that's referred to as a vampire.
If BJ wants me to, she can email me and tell me to quit, and then I will just
limit my postings to harmless, inane chit-chat type stuff...because I really
don't wish to alienate you all.
Advice?
Signed,
"Rodney D."
--Sanguinarius
~~~~~>>Stop by for a cup of...er, um, coffee (yeah! Coffee...)<<~~~~~
sangu...@aol.com
Sanguinarius: The Vampire Support Page
http://members.aol.com/Sanguinar1/vampire.html
B J Kuehl
Sanguinarius writes:
> If BJ wants me to, she can email me and tell me to quit, and then I will just
> limit my postings to harmless, inane chit-chat type stuff...because I really
> don't wish to alienate you all.
Why am I being singled out as your adversary? There are many
others here who also speak out against the unproven claims made
by the parasite gurus. I have never told anyone to quit or to
go away. I simply continue to ask the truthsayers for their
evidence and watch them get all uptight and invent new excuses
as to why they don't, can't or won't produce their evidence.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
Chooch
Sanguinar1 wrote:
>
(snip)
>
> If BJ wants me to, she can email me and tell me to quit, and then I will just
> limit my postings to harmless, inane chit-chat type stuff...because I really
> don't wish to alienate you all.
>
Although I've never had any contact with BJ other than reading her
postings, I would be personally _astounded_ if she did something like
that.
Other than that, if we limited our conversations to only people we
agreed with it would make for a pretty boring conversation. "Harmless,
inane chit-chat type stuff" is fun, but (with apologies to any vegans) I
like to see the occasional hunk of raw meat among the petite-fours, to
make a rather crude analogy.
B J Kuehl
Sanguinarius on her blind acceptance of the vampire retrovirus
theory as an explanation for her sudden psycho-state:
>I know something changed, and I'm tring to keep my life making
>sense and to help others who are even less well off than me,
>get up to at least the level where I'm at.
>I am not trying to be a guru, dudes...What I am doing is trying
>to increase people's awareness that there is something out there
>that causes people to be a certain way.
How will blind acceptance of a theory which has no proof or no
supportive evidence make it all better for anyone? Researchers
call this the placebo effect... the sugar pill.
>The other reason I do it it so that others who have the something
>might run across my stuff and link up.
Ah, yes. Those wonderful weblinks. The more weblinks you have
and the higher your webpage counter, the more of an expert you
think yourself to be.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
Sanguinar1
>Sanguinarius writes:
>> If BJ wants me to, she can email me and tell me to quit, and then I will
>just
>> limit my postings to harmless, inane chit-chat type stuff...because I
>really
>> don't wish to alienate you all.
>
>
>others here who also speak out against the unproven claims made
>by the parasite gurus. I have never told anyone to quit or to
>go away. I simply continue to ask the truthsayers for their
>evidence and watch them get all uptight and invent new excuses
>as to why they don't, can't or won't produce their evidence.
>
>
> ^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
>
aren't you? What you say goes, in my book.
Sanguinar1
OK..What are the other theories so far regarding vampires?
Excluding the retrovirus theory
1. Vampires are the walking dead
2. vampires are the dead come back to life
3. vampires are a separate species entirely
4. vampires are anyone whos been bitten by a vampire
5. vampires are any corpse that has had<insert animal of choice> go over it
6. vampires are excommunicated people
7. vampires are suyicides
8. vampires have symbionts inside them (that you can't see)
9. vampires are demons
10. vampires are people who are possessed by demons
11. vampires are bloodsucking ghosts
12. vampires I'm running out here folks...
I can personally vouch that #s 1 thru 3, 5 thru 7, 9 & 11 are not so.
That leaves #s 4,8. If vampires were any one who'd been bitten by a vampire,
then this would be a planet of vampires, as the "normal"of people. That leaves
8. Sounds to me as if it's just a reinterpretation of 10, but I can't prove it
or disprove it. BUT common sense tells me its bs.
So, we have 4 and 8 and my theorty as well as any that you can all think of to
add. but right now, i personally feel that mine is the most likely/least
unlikely.
I may be going mental right now, but it's unrelated to the fact that I think
I'm a vampire. (or whatever theheck it is, i am something or other...). I am
not a researcher, I never lost any data, etc,etc. I just have what I feel to be
correct, else I wouldn't be promoting it!)
now excuse me while i go have a little divorce...bye
Jarno Uurainen
Sanguinar1 <sangu...@aol.com> wrote:
: >Why am I being singled out as your adversary? There are many
: >others here who also speak out against the unproven claims made
: >by the parasite gurus. I have never told anyone to quit or to
: >go away. I simply continue to ask the truthsayers for their
: >evidence and watch them get all uptight and invent new excuses
: >as to why they don't, can't or won't produce their evidence.
: >
: >Im not singling you out. You're the board owner or
: >administrator or whatever aren't you? What you say goes, in my book.
Board owner? What goddamn board? This is a newsgroups.
Newsgroups have no owners, very few of them have even
administrators. I think you've listened to SeekerSA's
opinions about newsgroups a bit too much.
-Jake
B J Kuehl
When I wrote:
>>Why am I being singled out as your adversary? There are many
>>others here who also speak out against the unproven claims made
>>by the parasite gurus. I have never told anyone to quit or to
>>go away. I simply continue to ask the truthsayers for their
>>evidence and watch them get all uptight and invent new excuses
>>as to why they don't, can't or won't produce their evidence.
Snaguinarius wrote:
>>Im not singling you out. You're the board owner or administrator or whatever
> aren't you? What you say goes, in my book.
Get a new book. That one is fiction, as any here can tell you.
I am not the 'board' owner (btw, this is a newsgroup), administrator
or whatever. I have no power.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
B J Kuehl
Sanguinarius, in an attempt to justify her blind acceptance of
the retrovirus theory of vampirism, writes:
>OK..What are the other theories so far regarding vampires?
>Excluding the retrovirus theory
>1. Vampires are the walking dead
>2. vampires are the dead come back to life
>3. vampires are a separate species entirely
>4. vampires are anyone whos been bitten by a vampire
>5. vampires are any corpse that has had<insert animal of choice> go over it
>6. vampires are excommunicated people
>7. vampires are suyicides
>8. vampires have symbionts inside them (that you can't see)
>9. vampires are demons
>10. vampires are people who are possessed by demons
>11. vampires are bloodsucking ghosts
>12. vampires I'm running out here folks...
>I can personally vouch that #s 1 thru 3, 5 thru 7, 9 & 11 are not so.
You can? Then go ahead. Prove to us that vampires are NOT the walking
dead, NOT the dead come back to life, NOT a separate species, NOT
demons, and NOT bloodsucking ghosts. Throughout the annals of history,
these are some of the documented vampire theories which have been
accepted by hundreds and thousands of people.
>That leaves #s 4,8. If vampires were any one who'd been bitten
>by a vampire, then this would be a planet of vampires, as the
>"normal"of people.
That's assuming that the vampire has no control over the turning of
his or her victim, which may be an incorrect assumption on your
part...unless, of course, you have evidence of the contrary to
share?
>That leaves 8. Sounds to me as if it's just a reinterpretation of 10,
>but I can't prove it or disprove it. BUT common sense tells me its bs.
Common sense != truth. Common sense tells me that the sun goes
around the earth, that people can't eat glass, and that grass is
green. Yet, there is evidence to show that each of these 'common
sense' assumptions are inaccurate. Knowledge of physics can explain
how the movements of the earth, stars, planets and sun cannot result
in a system where the sun circles the earth, I've seen people eat
and swallow glass without harm, and grass is only perceived as green
by virtue of the fact that chlorophyll absorbs lightwaves from the
red and blue spectrum and that the human eye is constructed to detect
the reflection of the unabsorbed green light.
>So, we have 4 and 8 and my theorty as well as any that you can all
>think of to add. but right now, i personally feel that mine is the
>most likely/least unlikely.
As did those hundreds and thousands of people who personally
felt that vampires were the walking dead, the dead come back to
life, demons, and/or bloodsucking ghosts. Those beliefs were
based on the knowledge base and popular perceptions of the times
in which they lived.
In these modern times, we have viruses, bacteria, parasites,
genetics, etc., all of which are relatively recent additions
to our knowledge base, still poorly understood as to their effect
upon the human body, and the fodder used to build our science
fiction stories, fantasies, and re-explanations for the events
of the past. The fact that viruses and genetics are popular
in our society's eyes does not make them any more or less likely
to be an explanation for vampirism than do demons, ghosts or
the walking dead. Until there is evidence to link any of these
things to whatever it is that we define as a vampire, the proof
is still lacking and the search is still on.
>I may be going mental right now, but it's unrelated to the fact
that I think I'm a vampire. (or whatever the heck it is, i am something
>or other...).
On what basis have you come to the conclusion that you are a vampire?
>now excuse me while i go have a little divorce...bye
OK..Based on what you've told us so far, what are some other theories
regarding the sudden change in your physical/mental state? Excluding
the "I'm a vampire" theory.
1. A blood-borne disease from drinking that dude's blood
2. Emotional stress which has led to or been caused by the divorce
3. Clinical depression
4. Pregnancy
5. Mental confusion due to a sensation of loss of control over your
life (common preceding, during and following a divorce)
6. Latent schizophrenia
7. Guilt for being intimate with a man other than your husband
8. Sleep disorder
9. Anorexia nervosa
10. Loss of self-esteem
11. Body dismorphic disorder
12. Panic attacks
13. Food allergy
14. Substance abuse
15. Lupus erythematosis
16. Menopause
17. Early dementia
Those are just some of the medical possibilities. I haven't
even begun to address the spiritual, cognitive, geophysical,
thermonuclear, cosmic and situational possibilities. Assuming
that we can eliminate 16 because you're too young and 4 because
you're too old, common sense says that any of the above theories,
until checked out by a specialist, is more likely/less unlikely
than ascribing your condition to vampirism caused by a retrovirus.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
Jarno Uurainen
B J Kuehl <b...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
: You can? Then go ahead. Prove to us that vampires are NOT the walking
: dead, NOT the dead come back to life, NOT a separate species, NOT
: demons, and NOT bloodsucking ghosts. Throughout the annals of history,
: these are some of the documented vampire theories which have been
: accepted by hundreds and thousands of people.
You're a psychologist, right? Analyse her (sang) way of thinking
a bit. I digged up some posts from Dejanews, analysed a bit
(I'm no pro, of course, but it's a hobby :) and came to the
conclusion that she is not that well attached to reality.
No offense, anyone.
-Jake
Shadowlrrk
Jetgirl wrote:
>not any one isp. unlike aol, not everything the rest of us do is
>controled - everything you do may be being watched and censored, but
>non-aol users don't have that disadvantage.
AOL only censors its internal network they don't (or even have the ability to)
censor what AOL users do on the internet.
-Shadowlark
* Shadowlark (shado...@aol.com)
* The evil astral vampyre fluff bunny from hell!
* http://members.aol.com/shadow1ark
B J Kuehl
Jake asked me:
> You're a psychologist, right? Analyse her (sang) way of thinking
> a bit.
I'm an educational psychologist. I look at how people learn...
how people think... how they cognate. My particular specialty
is science and math.
> I digged up....
Oh, my luv, in America we would say "I dug up..."
> ...some posts from Dejanews, analysed a bit
> (I'm no pro, of course, but it's a hobby :) and came to the
> conclusion that she is not that well attached to reality.
I'll do the same. In the meantime, I remember Sang as a valuable
and realistic poster to A.V., which is why I am concerned about
this mania/psychosis/change/mental that she is going through. She's
either under the influence of the mothership OR she is going through
some psychophysiophysicospirituogical problems.
^V^ Baby JInx ^V^
Succubyss
>psychophysiophysicospirituogical problems.
>
>
> ^V^ Baby JInx ^V^
Nice job on that word, Jinx!! BTW, I also remember Sang has having posted quite
a few seemingly intelligent and humorous posts, with the worst offense
responding long after a thread died.
What's up, Sanguinar? If you are just going thru a phase, I say run with it.
If you are truly troubled, maybe we can help?
S
In the real world <>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+
as in dreams, members.aol.com/Succubyss/succudex.html
nothing is quite +<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>
what it seems. -The Book of Counted Sorrows
Jarno Uurainen
B J Kuehl <b...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
: > I digged up....
: Oh, my luv, in America we would say "I dug up..."
Shit. You got me. My mistake :)
-Jake
Shadowlrrk
Jetgirl uttered:
[AOL censorship]
>in a way they do... if you do something they consider objectionable,
>they yank your account. most isp's reserve this right, but aol seems to
>use it more than most...
True but you have to be really objectionable. Flaming someone isn't going to do
it. What really upsets them is posting to their internal network with offensive
material. Of course AOL is supposed to be a family oriented provider :)
Blessings,
Shadowlrrk
Baby Jinx wrote:
"this mania/psychosis/change/mental that she is going through. She's
either under the influence of the mothership OR she is going through
some psychophysiophysicospirituogical problems."
I am not a psychologist, but I have had unipolar depression and it seems this
kind of thing is characteristic. I personally think she deserves some slack.
Bright Blessins,
Sanguinar1
>Subject: Re: Truthsayers
>From: jet...@i.hate.spam
>Date: Thu, Jan 8, 1998 12:08 EST
>Message-id: <69315h$n...@eve.enteract.com>
>
>also sprach Sanguinar1:
>>
>> Im not singling you out. You're the board owner or administrator or
>whatever
>> aren't you? What you say goes, in my book.
>
>
>sang, this is a usenet _newsgroup_. newsgroups have no owners,
>administrators, etc unless they fall into the "moderated" category -
>even then, the moderator is usually chosen by the newsgroup patrons,
>not any one isp. unlike aol, not everything the rest of us do is
>controled - everything you do may be being watched and censored, but
>non-aol users don't have that disadvantage.
>
>
>
> \ /
> \ (O) / jasanta @ enteract.com
> x_______---( o )---_______x
> x/ [_]`-'[_] \x http://www.enteract.com/~jasanta/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I didn't know that.
Sanguinar1
Tearing everything I say apart doesn't make you right or me wrong, it just
tears things apart. BTW, I think I'll go and get something to drink
now...although theres no need toright? After all I'm the one who's wrong and
full of shit by default b because I made the magic claim that will damn me to
aly.v-hell.
I only eb\ven come here because I get bored,.
Sanguinar1
>You're a psychologist, right? Analyse her (sang) way of thinking
>(I'm no pro, of course, but it's a hobby :) and came to the
>conclusion that she is not that well attached to reality.
>
> -Jake
>
>
>
>
>
>
Post it prove it. That's what you tell me.
Sanguinar1
>ubject: Re: Truthsayers
>From: b...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (B J Kuehl)
>Date: Thu, Jan 8, 1998 16:15 EST
>Message-id: <693flg$fg9$1...@uwm.edu>
>
>Jake asked me:
>> You're a psychologist, right? Analyse her (sang) way of thinking
>> a bit.
>
>how people think... how they cognate. My particular specialty
>is science and math.
>
>
>Oh, my luv, in America we would say "I dug up..."
>
>> (I'm no pro, of course, but it's a hobby :) and came to the
>> conclusion that she is not that well attached to reality.
>
>and realistic poster to A.V., which is why I am concerned about
>either under the influence of the mothership OR she is going through
>some psychophysiophysicospirituogical problems.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Just go and have a look at my page and then decide.
B J Kuehl
Shadowlark says:
> Baby Jinx wrote:
> "this mania/psychosis/change/mental that she is going through. She's
> either under the influence of the mothership OR she is going through
> some psychophysiophysicospirituogical problems."
>
> kind of thing is characteristic. I personally think she deserves some slack.
I personally think Sang deserves some help in diagnosing the cause of
this sudden change in her personality. I hope she gets it.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
B J Kuehl
When Jake wrote:
>:> I digged up....
I corrected:
>: ...in America we would say "I dug up..."
And Jake apologized:
> Shit. You got me. My mistake :)
And a most interesting one at that. American children, when
they are learning to speak the language, go through a short
phase around 3 years of age during which they apparently
internalize some of the rules of English. One of those rules
seems to be how to make a verb into past tense by adding -ed
to it.
Prior to this phase, children may have been using the correct
past tense of such irregular verbs as 'ran', 'made', 'gave', etc.
Suddenly, however, they start saying 'runned', 'maked', 'gived',
'digged', etc. or even doubling the -ed on regular verbs, creating
such words as 'walkdid', 'rundid', 'playdid', and so forth.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
B J Kuehl
Sanguinarius writes:
> Tearing everything I say apart doesn't make you right or me wrong,
> it just tears things apart.
There's an old adage that warns "Beware of false prophets".
The way that one determines who speaks falsely and who speaks
with knowledge and evidence is by examining what they say and
asking questions about it.
It's interesting to me that the one thing your darling messiah
(SeekerSA) cannot seem to tolerate is to have her theories
examined, her 'facts' questioned and to respond to requests for
some evidence of her claims.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
B J Kuehl
Sanguinarius writes:
>>> ...some posts from Dejanews, analysed a bit
>>> (I'm no pro, of course, but it's a hobby :) and came to the
>>> conclusion that she is not that well attached to reality.
> Just go and have a look at my page and then decide.
Been there. Done that. You talk about sunglasses and give
tips to vampires and vampire-wannabees. Nothing that hasn't
been discussed on a.v. by many others.
The only other document there, other than "On Procreation",
which was written by someone else, is your journal entry
which you recently posted to a.v. and in which you admit that
the vampire retrovirus is merely unsubstantiated theory.
Yet you ascribe to it as though it were truth and, rather than
find out what is really bothering you, you choose to believe
that you have been infected with some retrovirus which exists
in your imagination only.
Does that sound like someone who is attached to reality?
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
Jarno Uurainen
Sanguinar1 <sangu...@aol.com> wrote:
: >You're a psychologist, right? Analyse her (sang) way of thinking
: >a bit. I digged up some posts from Dejanews, analysed a bit
: >(I'm no pro, of course, but it's a hobby :) and came to the
: >conclusion that she is not that well attached to reality.
: >No offense, anyone.
: >
: Post it prove it. That's what you tell me.
Hah. This is not the truth. This is my personal observation,
which cannot be proven, nor will I attemp to prove it.
I don't claim it to be worth anything.
-Jake
Trickster
Dr. BJ wrote:
>I'll do the same. In the meantime, I remember Sang as a valuable
>and realistic poster to A.V., which is why I am concerned about
>this mania/psychosis/change/mental that she is going through. She's
>either under the influence of the mothership OR she is going through
>some psychophysiophysicospirituogical problems.
Or she owns a microwave.
Sanguinar1
>It's interesting to me that the one thing your darling messiah
>(SeekerSA) cannot seem to tolerate is to have her theories
>examined, her 'facts' questioned and to respond to requests for
>some evidence of her claims.
>
>
messia. I cuuerntly dont HAVE any messiahs.
I would be more than happy to present claims backed up by proof And would be
more than happy to have anyone under the sun (or moon) examine them. OK--I'll
keep my trap shut until then.
Sanguinar1
>Sanguinarius writes:
>>>> ...some posts from Dejanews, analysed a bit
>>>> (I'm no pro, of course, but it's a hobby :) and came to the
>>>> conclusion that she is not that well attached to reality.
>
>
>
>Been there. Done that. You talk about sunglasses and give
>tips to vampires and vampire-wannabees. Nothing that hasn't
>been discussed on a.v. by many others.
>
>The only other document there, other than "On Procreation",
>which was written by someone else, is your journal entry
>which you recently posted to a.v. and in which you admit that
>the vampire retrovirus is merely unsubstantiated theory.
>
>Yet you ascribe to it as though it were truth and, rather than
>find out what is really bothering you, you choose to believe
>that you have been infected with some retrovirus which exists
>in your imagination only.
>
>Does that sound like someone who is attached to reality?
>
>
>
>^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
It does not exist in my imagination! That's what I'm TRYING to get across. I
sure as heck didn't get it from a toilet seat, either! Or some stupid
symbiote!
Sanguinar1
>Sanguinar1 <sangu...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>: >You're a psychologist, right? Analyse her (sang) way of thinking
>: >(I'm no pro, of course, but it's a hobby :) and came to the
>: >conclusion that she is not that well attached to reality.
>: >
>: Post it prove it. That's what you tell me.
>
>Hah. This is not the truth. This is my personal observation,
>which cannot be proven, nor will I attemp to prove it.
>I don't claim it to be worth anything.
>
> -Jake
>
B J Kuehl
Trickster responsed:
> Or she owns a microwave.
Actually, according to the theory as we've advanced it so far,
it would appear that she does NOT own a microwave, since it
appears that the microwave serves to intercept the transmissions
from the mothership and provide protection to the owner....
at least until the microwave dies.
Perhaps Sang's microwave is broken? Or perhaps the aliens have
gone into the microwave business and are producing and selling
their own brand of microwave which does not contain the protective
feature?
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
White Spirit
Sanguinar1 wrote:
> Im not singling you out. You're the board owner or administrator or whatever
> aren't you? What you say goes, in my book.
Isn't it strange how one of the symptoms of the parasite
invasion/vampire DNA is that the victims start referring to alt.v as a
board?
Last time I said "board" my microwave blew up. It seems this is
obviously an important keyword in their sinister invasion.
White Spirit
jet...@i.hate.spam wrote:
> in a way they do... if you do something they consider objectionable,
> they yank your account. most isp's reserve this right, but aol seems to
> use it more than most...
That's cos they need to do it more than most.
B J Kuehl
Sanguinarius writes:
> It does not exist in my imagination! That's what I'm TRYING to get across. I
> sure as heck didn't get it from a toilet seat, either! Or some stupid
> symbiote!
The SYMPTOMS may not exist in your imagination. They may be
full-blown and quite noticable (I can't say, because you haven't
told us what your symptoms are, nor have I personally examined
you).
However, the CAUSE of your symptoms most likely is not due to
a vampire retrovirus that exists in your shared fantasies with
Seeker but has not been substantiated as existent in any way,
shape or form.
When you see that doctor and s/he notes your symptoms, tell him
or her that those symptoms are the result of your being infected
with a vampire retrovirus. And don't forget to use the word
'vampire', as most people have been or are infected with some
virus such as herpes simplex, herpes zoster, and dozens of other
adenoviruses, reoviruses, cytomegaloviruses, echoviruses,
arboviruses, diplornaviruses, arenaviruses, myxo- and paramyxo-
viruses, enteroviruses, cocksackieviruses, picornaviruses,
papovaviruses. All of these known viruses need to be ruled out
and your vampire retrovirus cultured, identified and documented.
Then you will have proof.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
White Spirit
B J Kuehl wrote:
> Assuming
> that we can eliminate 16 because you're too young and 4 because
> you're too old...
Erm... How can you eliminate 16 (menopause) because she's too young
_and_ 4 (pregnancy) because she's too old? :)
B J Kuehl
When Jake wrote:
>>This is my personal observation,
>>which cannot be proven, nor will I attemp to prove it.
>>I don't claim it to be worth anything.
Sanguinarius asked:
> How come he can make personal observations, and I can't?
You can. No one has said you can't. Furthermore, Jake's
personal observations can be dissected and challenged by
anyone who wishes to do so, including yourself.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
B J Kuehl
White Spirit asks:
That convoluted phrase is the result of a typing error. It should
have read:
"Assuming that we can eliminate 16 (menopause) because you're
too young OR 4 (pregnancy) because you're too old..."
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
Chiller
Shadowlrrk wrote:
> Baby Jinx wrote:
>
> "this mania/psychosis/change/mental that she is going
> through. She's
> either under the influence of the mothership OR she is
> going through
> some psychophysiophysicospirituogical problems."
>
> I am not a psychologist, but I have had unipolar
> depression and it seems this
> kind of thing is characteristic. I personally think she
> deserves some slack.
>
> Bright Blessins,
> Shadowlark
I'll second that. Whatever Sang is going through, there's
no excuse for helping someone feel worse about themselves
when they're clearly having a rough time; and to my eye it
doesn't look particularly clever, scoring points off someone
who has been quite gentle and polite with us all, and who
frankly is not dealing with robust debate as well as one
might usually expect.
There's also absolutely no constructive point in telling
someone who "suffers from a delusion", as BJ would say ..
that they are suffering from a delusion. I would have
thought as someone with some knowledge of psychology, she
would know that.
Chiller
Ice and a Slice?
chi...@cold.demon.co.uk
http://www.cold.demon.co.uk/index.html
Chiller
Sanguinar1 wrote:
> Tearing everything I say apart doesn't make you right or
> me wrong, it just
> tears things apart. BTW, I think I'll go and get
> something to drink
> now...although theres no need toright? After all I'm the
> one who's wrong and
> full of shit by default b because I made the magic claim
> that will damn me to
> aly.v-hell.
>
> I only eb\ven come here because I get bored,.
Ok, Sang ... I have to ask you something, but it's one of
those questions which actually does not require an answer.
I am probably also going to get my arse flamed off for this
post. ;)
You believe in a variety of vampire, right? Obviously BJ
doesn't believe in the same thing as you, and there are
a few people who agree with you, as we have seen on the
NG - and there are a few people who agree with BJ.
Fair enough.
What interests me is .. why does it matter to you whether BJ
"tears you apart" or not? Why does it matter what she (and
other chaps) think, or which words she chooses to use, or
how many people believe as she does, or indeed how many
people believe as you do? Why don't you just killfile the
people whom you consider to be just "tearing you apart", and
simply not discuss the matter with them?
If your personal truth (or "delusion", whatever), involves your
being some variety of vampire, well so be it.
The trick (I have found) to living with personal truths (or
delusions), is to learn not to sweat about them, and not to
spend much time trying to prove them to yourself, and not to
spend too much time thinking about them, or worrying about
them, or trying to share them with /prove them to other people.
Either believe them or don't believe them. Either way, get
on with your life as best you can, and as honourably as you
can, being as kind to yourself and others as you can.
Uh, just as an aside (and none of my business at all, apols
for butting in etc) - I find if one has an unharmonious
emotional state - and you seemed upset with your last post-
it is very counterproductive to drink alcohol. When I am
"mad", I like to be "mad" and stone cold sober. ;)
Chiller
Sanguinar1 wrote:
> >Jake wrote:
> >
> >Hah. This is not the truth. This is my personal
> observation,
> >which cannot be proven, nor will I attemp to prove it.
> >I don't claim it to be worth anything.
> >
> > -Jake
> >
> How come he can make personal observations, and I can't?
> --Sanguinarius
You can.
And the same thing (free speech) that allows Jake to suggest
you might be mad, equally permits you to suggest the same of
him, or me, or anyone. Just because you have an opinion
doesn't make it right, though. It's a damn shame everyone
doesn't bear that in mind a little more.
Chiller
Weary of watching squabbling.
chi...@cold.demon.co.uk
http://www.cold.demon.co.uk/index.html
B J Kuehl
Chiller writes:
>I am probably also going to get my arse flamed off for this
>post. ;)
>The trick (I have found) to living with personal truths (or
>delusions), is to learn not to sweat about them, and not to
>spend much time trying to prove them to yourself, and not to
>spend too much time thinking about them, or worrying about
>them, or trying to share them with /prove them to other people.
Not from me you won't get flamed, because I agree with you
on this one. I couldn't care less about someone's personal
truths, imaginings or delusions. What gets my goat is when
these people write rambling fiction and call it scientific
research, boast that they know the Real(tm) Truth(tm), claim
to have proof but refuse to provide it when asked, run around
the internet and set up websites so that they can spread
their delusions and seek converts, whine and cry and get upset
when someone with a modicum of intelligence and independent
thought challenges their delusion, etc.
Believing something is one thing. Keep your beliefs to
yourself if they border on delusional, and no one has anything
on you. Evangelizing it is something else. If someone
expects the right to harangue others with their delusions,
they must harangue with the knowledge that those others
can and will question them diligently and may even write
them off as either liars or mental flakes.
Free speech is free speech. It goes both ways. If one
does not wish to be questioned or contradicted, then don't
jump on the soapbox and grab the mike.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
B J Kuehl
Chiller writes:
> ...there's
> no excuse for helping someone feel worse about themselves
> when they're clearly having a rough time; and to my eye it
> doesn't look particularly clever, scoring points off someone
> who has been quite gentle and polite with us all, and who
> frankly is not dealing with robust debate as well as one
> might usually expect.
Once again, Chiller, you disappoint me. Out of one side of
your mouth you have said that it is not anyone's responsibility
to speak up for and protect the gullible or the weak. Yet,
here you are making the opposite statement.
Everyone on this ng has, at one time or another, had personal
problems, had rough times. The strong ones have persevered,
have considered the responses, and have used or discarded them
as needed in order to gain the strength they need. The weak
and the gullible have fallen away.
And I remember a not-too-distant post of yours in which you
argued that this is the way it should be.
Had a change of heart? Or are you just arguing for the sake
of the argument?
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
Sanguinar1
> And don't forget to use the word
>'vampire'
What do yuo think, I'm stupid or something?
Sanguinar1
>And don't forget to use the word
Ehat do you think, I'm stupid or something? I'll also mention that I'm an
alien and I'm stuck here on this planet because the Gov't shot down the
mothership...ok?
Sanguinar1
>Sanguinar1 wrote:
>
>> Tearing everything I say apart doesn't make you right or
>> me wrong, it just
>> tears things apart. BTW, I think I'll go and get
>> something to drink
>> now...although theres no need toright? After all I'm the
>> one who's wrong and
>> full of shit by default b because I made the magic claim
>> that will damn me to
>> aly.v-hell.
>>
>> I only eb\ven come here because I get bored,.
>
>Ok, Sang ... I have to ask you something, but it's one of
>those questions which actually does not require an answer.
>
>post. ;)
>
>doesn't believe in the same thing as you, and there are
>a few people who agree with you, as we have seen on the
>NG - and there are a few people who agree with BJ.
>Fair enough.
>
>What interests me is .. why does it matter to you whether BJ
>"tears you apart" or not? Why does it matter what she (and
>other chaps) think, or which words she chooses to use, or
>how many people believe as she does, or indeed how many
>people believe as you do? Why don't you just killfile the
>people whom you consider to be just "tearing you apart", and
>simply not discuss the matter with them?
Because it states clearly that it IS only a theory, and its a theory that I'd
like to see enough interest in to actually get something done with it on
proving or disproving it ,SO I CAN FREAKING KNOW!!!!!
>
>If your personal truth (or "delusion", whatever), involves your
>being some variety of vampire, well so be it.
>
>The trick (I have found) to living with personal truths (or
>delusions), is to learn not to sweat about them, and not to
>spend much time trying to prove them to yourself, and not to
>spend too much time thinking about them, or worrying about
>them, or trying to share them with /prove them to other people.
>Either believe them or don't believe them. Either way, get
>on with your life as best you can, and as honourably as you
>can, being as kind to yourself and others as you can.
>
>Uh, just as an aside (and none of my business at all, apols
>for butting in etc) - I find if one has an unharmonious
>emotional state - and you seemed upset with your last post-
>it is very counterproductive to drink alcohol. When I am
>"mad", I like to be "mad" and stone cold sober. ;)
I never said anything about alcohol...
>
>Chiller
>Ice and a Slice?
> chi...@cold.demon.co.uk
> http://www.cold.demon.co.uk/index.html
>
--Sanguinarius
Sanguinar1
If one is going to accuse me or imply that I'm calling it scientific research,
then one is going to need to show where I said that. Otherwise, one's
statements are as bogus as mine are claimed by that one.....
Betcha each a dollar that If I go to a mental doctor and he helps me out and
I'm all fine 'n' dandy that I'll still be the same way I am now!
When was the last time you the reader of this post, had a headache, watery
eyes, stuffed nose, aches and pains, vomitting and diarhea, loss of appetite
etc. If you thought you had the flu, then you must be delusional by your own
logic because you didn't have any proof that you had the flu. And I will bet
that if someone asked you "How are you doing?" you told them, "Im sick, or "I
have the flu", right?
Of course, you were only feeling that way because an invisible symbiote invaded
your body. After all, THAT theory makes mre sense than a virus causing it--
doesn't it?
Just STOP, and reevaluate what I have actually said everywhere. Think about it
and then don't accept it, ok?
I never claimed it was not a freaking theory! I do promote it as the theory
that I personally feel makers the most sense, and that I would LIKE to see some
sort of interest in it, so maybe some REAL, ACTUAL SCIENTIFIC freaking research
is done in regards to it...EITHER PROVING IT OR DISPROVING IT, BUT SETTLING IT
In a scientific world a virus makes more sense than a ghost, doesn;t it?
DOESN'T IT???????
I mean you all are supposed to have degress aren't you? In what?
You all jump my @$$. Fine. But go back and see why you're jumping it.
If I'm misleading people it's a heckuva lot less than SOME around here...
Scientifically, if it's not a virus, then what IS it? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT?
WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT?
WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? Because I want to know, and I'm not accepting anything
as stupid and NON-SCIENTIFIC as an invisible thing, or whatever. Got any
better suggestions?
Sanguinar1
>There's also absolutely no constructive point in telling
>someone who "suffers from a delusion", as BJ would say ..
>that they are suffering from a delusion. I would have
>thought as someone with some knowledge of psychology, she
>would know that.
Unless they just want to make themselves feel superiour...HEY! I am NOT
suffering from a delusion! Just because you can't accept something doesn't
mean I'M wrong. I may not have facts to back up my theries, but that doesn't
mean I'm delusional!
Frankly, at this point in my life, I don't care if someone breaks in my house
and drives a stake through my heart so I definitely don't care if I (worst-case
scenario) get used as a LAB rat. At least they'll feed me...
Sanguinar1
>Or are you just arguing for the sake
>of the argument?
>
>
I think this is the case for everyone!
William R. Thompson
In <19980110082...@ladder02.news.aol.com> sangu...@aol.com
(Sanguinar1) writes:
>When was the last time you the reader of this post, had a headache,
>watery eyes, stuffed nose, aches and pains, vomitting and diarrhea,
>loss of appetite etc.
>Scientifically, if it's not a virus, then what IS it? WHAT IS IT?
S., have you ever been tested for lupus? That's a possible explanation
for the symptoms you list here. Lupus is an immune-system screw-up
that can attack any and all of the body's systems. When it attacks the
digestive system, a near-permanent case of the runs is a symptom (it
doesn't get mentioned in most diagnostic lists because it isn't a
*glamorous* symptom). Aches and pains are another lupus symptom--an
arthritic inflammation of the joints.
The Lupus Society has a web site somewhere; I'll see if I can find its
address for you.
--Bill Thompson
William R. Thompson
This is a follow-up to my last post, where I promised S. some
information about lupus. According to the Lupus Foundation of America,
these are the most common symptoms of lupus, and how often they are
found in lupus patients:
Achy joints 95%
Fever over 100 degrees F (38 C) 90%
Swollen joints (arthritis) 90%
Prolonged fatigue 81%
Skin rashes 74%
Anemia 71%
Kidney involvement 50%
Pain in the chest on deep breathing,
unrelated to position or movement 45%
Butterfly-shaped rash across the
cheeks and nose 42%
Photosensitivity 30%
Hair loss 27%
Fingers turning white and/or blue
in the cold 17%
Seizures 15%
Mouth ulcers 12%
According to the Lupus Foundation, "Most people with lupus do not
experience all of these symptoms at one time." Just having these
symptoms doesn't prove you have lupus, but it can set the doctor on the
track of a correct diagnosis.
A diagnosis of lupus generally requires that the patient have four or
more of the following symptoms:
1: Butterfly shaped rash across the cheeks and nose.
2: Discoid rash
3: Photosensitivity
4: Mouth and/or (internal) nose ulcers
5: Arthritis
6: A positive LE cell test, repeated false positive blood tests
for syphilis (i.e., a blood test incorrectly indicating the
presence of syphilis), or antibodies to DNA and/or antibodies
to Sm
7: Excessive protein in the urine, or cellular casts in the urine.
8: Pericarditis (inflammation of the tissues around the heart) and/or
pleurisy
9: Psychosis and/or convulsions
10: Hemolytic anemia, low white blood cell count, or low platelet
count.
11: Positive test for antinuclear antibodies (ANA test)
Re: (6) and (11). That's right. The tests themselves are only
considered to be symptoms by most physicians. The ANA test is 95%
reliable.
Treatment:
There's no cure, but the condition can be managed. Here are the
Foundation's guidelines, with a few embellishments:
1: Regular rest is important when the disease is active. When it's
in remission, get plenty of exercise, to build up muscle strength
and increase joint flexibility.
2: If you're photosensitive, use sunscreens; the higher the SPF,
the better. Avoid direct sunlight during midday; if you have to
go out in the sun, cover up--hats, long sleeves, gloves, etc.
(Cotton fabric only has an SPF of about 10; denim has an SPF of
50--however, *two* layers of even light cloth will greatly
increase the protection factor.) Fluorescent lighting can be a
problem if you're highly photosensitive; it produces ultraviolet
light. Incidentally, window glass doesn't block all UV light,
so leave sitting in a window on a sunny day to the cats.
Sunglasses are effectively worthless here--*brightness* isn't
a problem; it's the amount of UV light that reaches the skin.
3: Achy joints and arthritis generally respond to aspirin or other
over-the-counter painkillers (technically, non-steroidal
anti-inflammatory drugs, or NSAIDs).
4: The anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine (plaquenil) is often
prescribed for more severe joint or skin involvement.
5: Cortisone drugs (Prednisone is most commonly prescribed) are
often used for more severe organ involvement. It has hazardous
side effects, and not everyone with lupus needs it.
6: For a fever over 100 degrees F/ 38 degrees C, call a doctor
(lupus is an immune-system problem--and when your immune system is
messed up, you can't afford to play games with infections).
7: Regular checkups, including blood and urine tests.
In addition, stress can aggravate lupus. To relieve stress, flame a
renfield; that's what they're here for.
According to the Lupus Foundation, the prognosis is surprisingly
good; with early diagnosis and current methods of treatment,
80%-90% of people with lupus can expect to live a normal lifespan.
The Lupus Foundation of America has a web site:
Their address is
Lupus Foundation of America
1300 Piccard Drive, Suite 200
Rockville, Maryland
20850
They have two phone numbers:
If you think your symptoms indicate you have lupus, you can
contact them for the address and phone number of their chapter
in your area. The local chapter, in turn, can give you the name
of a *good* local doctor, who can give you a reliable diagnosis
give you a reliable diagnosis.
For photosensitivity, there's a company called Sun Precautions
which sells SPF 30 clothing, as well as other items for people
with lupus, skin cancer, porphyria and other sun-related problems.
They have a web site at:
[note--this last doesn't come from the Lupus Foundation info that I
have.]
I hope this helps.
--Bill Thompson
Shadowlrrk
>as stupid and NON-SCIENTIFIC as an invisible thing, or whatever. Got any
>better suggestions?
>--Sanguinarius
invisible thing = non-scientific? Show me a proton! Show me a quark!
Dark Blessings,
Shadowlark
* Shadowlark (shado...@aol.com)
* The evil astral vampyre fluff bunny from hell!
* http://members.aol.com/shadow1ark
Shadowlrrk
Sanguinarius Wrote:
>Unless they just want to make themselves feel superiour...HEY! I am NOT
>suffering from a delusion! Just because you can't accept something
If someone says you are delusional remember this: we are all delusional. No one
really knows the truth behind the workings of the universe. We all simply try
to make sense of it in some way. :)
Peace and Light,
Jarno Uurainen
Sanguinar1 <sangu...@aol.com> wrote:
: Scientifically, if it's not a virus, then what IS it? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT?
: WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT?
: WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? Because I want to know, and I'm not accepting anything
: as stupid and NON-SCIENTIFIC as an invisible thing, or whatever. Got any
: better suggestions?
If you had any knowledge of DNA and viruses, you would
know that a DNA altering retrovirus which makes people
stronger, extremely long-living and blood-drinking,
doesn't make much more sense than an invisible symbiont.
-Jake
Jarno Uurainen
Sanguinar1 <sangu...@aol.com> wrote:
: Unless they just want to make themselves feel superiour...
: HEY! I am NOT suffering from a delusion!
: Just because you can't accept something doesn't mean I'M wrong.
: I may not have facts to back up my theries, but that doesn't
: mean I'm delusional!
Perhaps not, but just because YOU say something doesn't mean
that I should accept it.
To save yourself from a lot of argument and stress,
I would advice you to shut up about revolutionary
retroviruses until you have the facts to back up your
theories.
-Jake
B J Kuehl
Bill T writes:
>>When was the last time you the reader of this post, had a headache,
>>watery eyes, stuffed nose, aches and pains, vomitting and diarrhea,
>>loss of appetite etc.
>
>
> for the symptoms you list here. Lupus is an immune-system screw-up
> that can attack any and all of the body's systems. When it attacks the
> digestive system, a near-permanent case of the runs is a symptom (it
> doesn't get mentioned in most diagnostic lists because it isn't a
> *glamorous* symptom). Aches and pains are another lupus symptom--an
> arthritic inflammation of the joints.
In my case, it turned out to be celiac disease, a genetic inability
to digest the gluten protein in grains such as wheat, rye, oatmeal
and barley. Even small amounts of gluten, which destroys the
intestinal lining of those with the celiac condition, resulted in
tremendous stomach pains, back pains, and mood swings. In addition,
because the lining of my intestines was so f**ked up and unable to
properly absorb nutrients, I was rapidly becoming more and more
anemic. Because, when my intestines DID absorb something, it was
often in undigested form, I was developing allergies to milk
products and other complex proteins. About the only thing I could
properly digest was meat... the more raw the better... and I was
even losing the ability to do that. What was left but blood and
water?
Visits to the doctor brought me nothing but laughs at how it was
all psychosomatic or that I was suffering from 'medical student's
disease' (medical students contract everything they read about,
doncha know).
Inbetween my bouts of diarrhea, stomach pain and manic depression,
I kept at it... searching for the answer. If I had focused on
only the blood craving and decided to play vampire and ascribe
my condition to a retrovirus, I'd probably be dead now. Instead,
I researched and tested and researched some more. Even after I hit
on the real cause (celiac syndrome), it took over a year of
changing my diet (totally eliminating all grains except for cornr
and wheat while learning how to eat healthfully with what foods
were left) before I finally became able to digest foods properly,
to lose the cravings (although I still eat raw meat), and
for the emotional roller coaster to stabilize.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
B J Kuehl
Shadowlark writes:
> Sanguinarius Wrote:
>>Unless they just want to make themselves feel superiour...HEY! I am NOT
>>suffering from a delusion! Just because you can't accept something
>
> No one really knows the truth behind the workings of the universe.
> We all simply try to make sense of it in some way.
And while you are wallowing and prostelitizing your delusions across
the internet, the real cause for your condition might be destroying
your body. But, hey, delusions rule! We don't need truth... just
more delusions.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
~lil num
William R. Thompson wrote:
>
> In <19980110082...@ladder02.news.aol.com> sangu...@aol.com
> (Sanguinar1) writes:
> S., have you ever been tested for lupus? That's a possible explanation
> for the symptoms you list here. Lupus is an immune-system screw-up
> that can attack any and all of the body's systems. When it attacks the
> digestive system, a near-permanent case of the runs is a symptom (it
> doesn't get mentioned in most diagnostic lists because it isn't a
> *glamorous* symptom). Aches and pains are another lupus symptom--an
> arthritic inflammation of the joints.
>
> The Lupus Society has a web site somewhere; I'll see if I can find its
> address for you.
good advice bill, another possibilty from the sympytoms discribed -
especially if sang has a very low immune system, abnormally low
adrenalin counts and temporary (being anything from a few weeks to a few
years) loss of energy and control over limbs - is chronic fatige
syndrome. there is a moderated news group which is available to discuss
the subject and posts are often made there which contain the latest
information that has been published in medical journals. you can
subscribe to the group without applying to the list moderator, but can
not post without doing so. also, cfs has only recently been accepted as
an actual disease after hundreds/thousands of people were told that it
was "all in their head for years".
if you'd like sang, i'll look up the name of the ng for you..
numindan
Succubyss
>And while you are wallowing and prostelitizing your delusions across
>the internet, the real cause for your condition might be destroying
>your body. But, hey, delusions rule! We don't need truth... just
>more delusions.
>
>
> ^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
>
>
As I follow this so-called debate, I must agree and comment on BJ's sarcasm.
Anyone who is interested in vampires knows that there many vampiric attributes
which have now (in modern times) been connected as symptoms of actual medical
diseases. And mental breakdown is a symptom of many diseases which have
nothing to do with vampirism.
I am not a Dr, nor will I play one on this newsgroup. BUT...Sang's very
diametrically opposed personality is a sign of SOMETHING. She is a completely
different personality currently then she was in the past. This could be a sign
of an emotional breakdown, which in turn may be a sign of a more serious
problem. Or she may just be "trying on" a new personality on order to develop
different aspects of her true self.
The fact that she seems to be replicating aspects of "other" posting
personalities, may also indicate she is morphing into a Borg.
Whatever the case, I believe Sang needs help. I don't think BJ is trying to
mock Sanguinar, I think she is trying to give her a dose of "tough love". In
the same "vein", I feel Chiller is trying to smooth the path for Sang to get
her to seek some help.
Jake, as usual, is just being a cheerful pain in the ass ;)
Sanguinar, whatever the case, perhaps you should see a trusted medical
professional.
S (feeling caring and philosophical at the moment)
In the real world <>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+
as in dreams, members.aol.com/Succubyss/succudex.html
nothing is quite +<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>
what it seems. -The Book of Counted Sorrows
B J Kuehl
>> And don't forget to use the word
>>'vampire'
>
> --Sanguinarius
Every living humanoid I've ever met has some degree of measureable
IQ. As you've pointed out recently, I don't know you personally,
so I have no idea what yours might be.
However, I do have doubts that you will enter a doctor's office,
present a copy of your diary and, perhaps, a copy of Seeker's
vampire retrovirus document, look the M.D. in the eye and say,
"Here is what I've got. There's no other explanation for it."
You may mention that you think you've contracted some sort of
virus, and the doctor may agree with you, but that is no proof
whatsoever that you have a vampire retrovirus.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
B J Kuehl
Sanguinarius writes:
> Ehat do you think, I'm stupid or something? I'll also mention that I'm an
> alien and I'm stuck here on this planet because the Gov't shot down the
> mothership...ok?
I really don't care what you tell the doctor. I just hope that
you're open-minded enough to consider explanations a little more
realistic than an uproven vampire retrovirus.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
Chiller
B J Kuehl wrote:
> Chiller writes:
> > ...there's
> > no excuse for helping someone feel worse about
> themselves
> > when they're clearly having a rough time; and to my eye
> it
> > doesn't look particularly clever, scoring points off
> someone
> > who has been quite gentle and polite with us all, and
> who
> > frankly is not dealing with robust debate as well as one
>
> > might usually expect.
>
> Once again, Chiller, you disappoint me.
Happily I was not put upon this earth to do otherwise.
> Out of one side of
> your mouth you have said that it is not anyone's
> responsibility
> to speak up for and protect the gullible or the weak.
> Yet,
> here you are making the opposite statement.
Once again, BJ, you deliberately misinterpret me.
What I actually said was that there is no need to
deliberately make someone who already feels bad, worse. I'm
not capable of, nor do I have any wish to "protect" Sang. I
pointed out that, "to my eye", it seemed you were scoring
points in this argument, and indeed, it seems to me that you
are doing so against your own previously stated belief that
those who are weak and gullible - both of which you
obviously believe Sang to be - should be "protected".
What I also said in the past regarding protection was that
people should have the gumption to stand up for themselves;
and that in cases where they cannot, then those who have the
strength do owe them a duty of care in some regard. I have
advocated - and still do - is a degree of adult personal
responsibility if it is at all possible to exercise this.
However, I do not enjoy standing by and watching someone who
is obviously capable of expressing herself reduce another
(normally very affable) person to near-incoherency over a
topic which, frankly, is not worth arguing. Sang's beliefs
and yours differ. She has recently said on the NG that she
cannot prove what she holds to be true. She has a website
which claims what she believes to be the "truth". People
can go and read it, or not, as they choose. They can
believe it, or not, as they choose. You choose not to. End
of topic, surely? Why drag the matter out? Why do you have
such a deep-seated need to always prove your own
correctness?
In fact I should have thought that you, as one who has in
the past named the protection of the weak as her reason for
certain posts, is the one who is displaying an element of
hypocricy here.
> Everyone on this ng has, at one time or another, had
> personal
> problems, had rough times. The strong ones have
> persevered,
> have considered the responses, and have used or discarded
> them
> as needed in order to gain the strength they need. The
> weak
> and the gullible have fallen away.
So it's alright for the weak and gullible to fall away (or
presumably have mental breakdowns in some cases), provided
they do so as a result of arguing with you, rather than as a
result of believing someone like Catherene?
It seems once again that we have encountered a BJ
double-standard.
> And I remember a not-too-distant post of yours in which
> you
> argued that this is the way it should be.
I believe that people who encounter "messiahs" should have
the opportunity to make reasonable mistakes and find out for
themselves whether they truly believe what they are being
told. I don't believe that it is possible to *prevent*
people from doing this, although one can provide appropriate
advice or company. People, at the end of the day, cannot be
protected from themselves or their own wants or beliefs.
I also believe that if one sees a person in distress, one
should absolutely never add to that distress, if one knows
how not to, and it seems that in this case you are adding to
Sang's distress; even though, according to your own
implications, Sang is one of those people you would class as
"weak and gullible".
> Had a change of heart? Or are you just arguing for the
> sake
> of the argument?
Neither. I do not see any productive point in your railing
against what Sang has said. You believe different things.
Chiller
jet...@i.hate.spam wrote:
> also sprach Chiller:
>
> > What interests me is .. why does it matter to you
> whether BJ
> > "tears you apart" or not? Why does it matter what she
> (and
> > other chaps) think, or which words she chooses to use,
> or
> > how many people believe as she does, or indeed how many
> > people believe as you do? Why don't you just killfile
> the
> > people whom you consider to be just "tearing you apart",
> and
> > simply not discuss the matter with them?
>
> wow, chiller, you almost make personal vampire beliefs
> sound like
> religions...
>
> - jetgirl
*Wink* ... nah, being English, if I thought they were
religious, I'd have rubbished Sang's beliefs as rudely and
offensively as I know how, wouldn't I?
Sanguinar1
>>When was the last time you the reader of this post, had a headache,
>>watery eyes, stuffed nose, aches and pains, vomitting and diarrhea,
>>loss of appetite etc.
>
>>Scientifically, if it's not a virus, then what IS it? WHAT IS IT?
>
>for the symptoms you list here. Lupus is an immune-system screw-up
>that can attack any and all of the body's systems. When it attacks the
>digestive system, a near-permanent case of the runs is a symptom (it
>doesn't get mentioned in most diagnostic lists because it isn't a
>*glamorous* symptom). Aches and pains are another lupus symptom--an
>arthritic inflammation of the joints.
>
>The Lupus Society has a web site somewhere; I'll see if I can find its
>address for you.
>
>
>
>
BILLLLLLLL................!!!!!!!!
I AM NOT DESCRIBING MY SYMPTOMS!!!!! IM DESCRIBING INFLUENZA SYMPTONS!!!!!
JESUS CHRIST!!!!@!
*pant-pant*
B J Kuehl
Chiller writes:
> I do not see any productive point in your railing
> against what Sang has said. You believe different things.
It's not a matter of belief. In the last 24 hours, the truth
of Sanguinarius's problems has finally come to the surface.
She is undergoing a divorce and craves blood. The two problems
are, supposedly, unrelated.
However, if Sanguinarius had spoken about these problems
rather than ranting and raving about the validity of her
retrovirus theory, she might have gotten the help and
suggestions that she needs to find out what is really
the root of her medical problems.
Unfortunately, it took poking and proding to open her up.
And I'm not sorry that I held the poker.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
Sanguinar1
Thank you. Now at least I know I don't kave LUPUS!!
Francis J Yenca
Excerpts from netnews.alt.vampyres: 10-Jan-98 Re: Truthsayers by B J
Ku...@alpha1.csd.uwm
> virus, and the doctor may agree with you, but that is no proof
>
> ^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
Sorry for the density, but what exactly _is_ a retrovirus, anyway?
What's the difference between it and a "normal" virus?
Frank, questioning assumptions
Sanguinar1
>When it attacks the
>> digestive system, a near-permanent case of the runs is a symptom (it
So does the flu virus, which symptomms I ws describing...
BTW Sangi no have this....
>Aches and pains are another lupus symptom--an
BTW Sangi no have this...
Same with the influenza
> resulted in
>tremendous stomach pains, back pains, and mood swings.
Sangi no have stomach pain...
Back pain only when sangi lift something wrong way and vertabrae go pop!
(Scliosis, say 2 chiropractors and orthopedic surgeon, but they all might be
wrong!!!)
mood swing? If so, then just from Sangi S/O say he going bye bye on Christmas
night...something very wrong if Sangi NOT have mood swings...
>developing allergies to milk
>products and other complex protein
Sangi love drink milk, eat ice cream, etc...no prob...
> the more raw the better...
ICK! Rare, but not RAW!
>If I had focused on
>only the blood craving and decided to play vampire and ascribe
>my condition to a retrovirus,>, I'd probably be dead now.
How long does it TAKE for one to die from an illness/cndition going
undiagnosed? And wouldn't they be in degenerating state of health the longer
it went?
How long does it TAKE for one to die from an illness/cndition going
undiagnosed? And wouldn't they be in degenerating state of health the longer
it went?
Sanguinar1
>good advice bill, another possibilty from the sympytoms discribed -
>especially if sang has a very low immune system
SANGI HAVE TOO GOOD OF HEALTH OVER ALL TO HAVE A VERY LOW IMMUNE SYSTEM
, abnormally low
>adrenalin counts
TOO HYPER...
and temporary (being anything from a few weeks to a few
>years) loss of energy and control over limbs - is chronic fatige
>syndrome. there is a moderated news group which is available to discuss
>the subject and posts are often made there which contain the latest
>information that has been published in medical journals. you can
>subscribe to the group without applying to the list moderator, but can
>not post without doing so. also, cfs has only recently been accepted as
>an actual disease after hundreds/thousands of people were told that it
>was "all in their head for years".
QUESTION: #1: Does the above symptoms come and go? IE Are one alright one day
but then the next, less alright, and so forth, until one is x-amount bad-off?
Then all the sudden, POINK! Back to being fine again?
Q2: If so, WHAT is the contingent factor that make one--POINK!--fine again?
>
>if you'd like sang, i'll look up the name of the ng for you..
>
>numindan
>
I will have to go there and see if any of them have their probs solved with
blood, ok? (I wonder HOW bad I will get flamed...hmmm)
Sanguinar1
>>as stupid and NON-SCIENTIFIC as an invisible thing, or whatever. Got any
>>better suggestions?
>
>invisible thing = non-scientific? Show me a proton! Show me a quark!
>
>Dark Blessings,
>
>
>
>
>* Shadowlark (shado...@aol.com)
>* The evil astral vampyre fluff bunny from hell!
>* http://members.aol.com/shadow1ark
>
BACK IN THE MIDDLE AGES, when someone had something wrong with them people
thought they had a spirit or a demon inside them making things wrong! Jesus
Christ, people!! Thsi the 21st centurie almost!!
Sanguinar1
>Subject: Re: Truthsayers
>From: Jarno Uurainen <ja...@kontunet.fi>
>Date: Sat, Jan 10, 1998 07:55 EST
>Message-id: <697r3m$29p$1...@luola.kontunet.fi>
>
>Sanguinar1 <sangu...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>: Scientifically, if it's not a virus, then what IS it? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS
>IT?
>: WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS
>IT?
>: WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? Because I want to know, and I'm not accepting
>anything
>: better suggestions?
>
>If you had any knowledge of DNA and viruses, you would
>know that a DNA altering retrovirus which makes people
>stronger, extremely long-living and blood-drinking,
>doesn't make much more sense than an invisible symbiont.
>
> -Jake
>
>
Well if it's not that, then-->WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT?
>WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT?
>WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT?
>WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT?
>WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT?
Sanguinar1
>And while you are wallowing and prostelitizing your delusions across
>the internet, the real cause for your condition might be destroying
>your body. But, hey, delusions rule! We don't need truth... just
>more delusions.
>
>
> ^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
>
>
>
>
Sanguinar1
The only HELP I need is in paying the freay bills right now!
I am not "Trying on a new personality" It;s the same ol one I've always had,
just pissier...
B J Kuehl
Sanguinarius asks:
> How long does it TAKE for one to die from an illness/cndition going
> undiagnosed? And wouldn't they be in degenerating state of health
> the longer it went?
Obviously, it's going to differ from illness to illness as well
as from person to person and even differently at different times
in the same person. In my case, when I was a kid, I merely suffered
from some rashes on the insides of my elbows and an inability to sit
on a lawn with bare legs. The doctors said that I had a grass allergy
and had to live with it. The rest of the effects starting popping
up when it hit my 20s. I could probably have gone on for years,
my body trying to heal itself while I plied myself with gluten
(ever read food labels? Gluten, wheat starch, modified food starch...
it's in EVERYTHING! The usual outcome for celiac disease, if it
isn't severe enough to kill you as a kid, is bowel cancer, but that
doesn't usually happen until you hit middle-age.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
Jarno Uurainen
Sanguinar1 <sangu...@aol.com> wrote:
: Jesus Christ, people!! Thsi the 21st centurie almost!!
Maybe you should cool down a bit, think things over and
then continue posting.
As for Jesus Christ, he can kiss my highly decorated ass.
-Jake
Amy Krieytaz
Succubyss wrote:
[quoting Baby Jinx:]
> >the real cause for your condition might be destroying
> >your body. But, hey, delusions rule! We don't need truth... just
> >more delusions.
[...]
> As I follow this so-called debate, I must agree and comment on BJ's sarcasm.
> Anyone who is interested in vampires knows that there many vampiric attributes
> which have now (in modern times) been connected as symptoms of actual medical
> diseases. And mental breakdown is a symptom of many diseases which have
> nothing to do with vampirism.
> I am not a Dr, nor will I play one on this newsgroup. BUT...Sang's very
> diametrically opposed personality is a sign of SOMETHING. She is a completely
> different personality currently then she was in the past. This could be a sign
> of an emotional breakdown, which in turn may be a sign of a more serious
> problem.
Sangi is currently going though a divorce and resulting financial
upheaval. Also, she is responding sarcastically to everyone else's
sarcasm. Could everyone, please, on both sides, cut out the sarcasm so
we can have a reasonable discussion? _I_ would like very much learn the
facts of what, for lack of a better term, I will refer to as "living
vampirism." We aren't going to get at the facts if everyone is being
defensive and sarcastic.
> Whatever the case, I believe Sang needs help. I don't think BJ is trying to
> mock Sanguinar, I think she is trying to give her a dose of "tough love". In
> the same "vein", I feel Chiller is trying to smooth the path for Sang to get
> her to seek some help.
If any of you are genuinely trying to help Sangi, it would probably be
much more effective (and much more interesting to ME) if you would just
post useful and relevant INFORMATION and factual point-by-point
critiques, instead of being sarcastic.
By the way, BJ's post on celiac disease was VERY interesting and
informative. BJ, thanks for sharing the very relevant fact that you
yourself once had a craving for blood and worked hard to find the
cause. To quote BJ's post again:
| In my case, it turned out to be celiac disease, a genetic inability
| to digest the gluten protein in grains such as wheat, rye, oatmeal
| and barley. Even small amounts of gluten, which destroys the
| intestinal lining of those with the celiac condition, resulted in
| tremendous stomach pains, back pains, and mood swings. In addition,
| because the lining of my intestines was so f**ked up and unable to
| properly absorb nutrients, I was rapidly becoming more and more
| anemic. Because, when my intestines DID absorb something, it was
| often in undigested form, I was developing allergies to milk
| products and other complex proteins. About the only thing I could
| properly digest was meat... the more raw the better... and I was
| even losing the ability to do that. What was left but blood and
| water?
|
| Visits to the doctor brought me nothing but laughs at how it was
| all psychosomatic or that I was suffering from 'medical student's
| disease' (medical students contract everything they read about,
| doncha know).
|
| Inbetween my bouts of diarrhea, stomach pain and manic depression,
| I kept at it... searching for the answer. If I had focused on
| only the blood craving and decided to play vampire and ascribe
| my condition to a retrovirus, I'd probably be dead now. Instead,
| I researched and tested and researched some more. Even after I hit
| on the real cause (celiac syndrome), it took over a year of
| changing my diet (totally eliminating all grains except for cornr
| and wheat while learning how to eat healthfully with what foods
| were left) before I finally became able to digest foods properly,
| to lose the cravings (although I still eat raw meat), and
| for the emotional roller coaster to stabilize.
Sangi, DOES the above sound at all like your symptoms?
Amy Krieytaz
akrieytaz @ hotmail.com
Vampire Research Resource Page
http://www.necronomi.com/users/akrieytaz/
Jarno Uurainen
Sanguinar1 <sangu...@aol.com> wrote:
: >If you had any knowledge of DNA and viruses, you would
: >know that a DNA altering retrovirus which makes people
: >stronger, extremely long-living and blood-drinking,
: >doesn't make much more sense than an invisible symbiont.
: >
: > -Jake
: >
: Well if it's not that, then-->WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT?
How the hell should I know? I was simply pointing out that
the retrovirus theory, even though it might sound scientifical
to the uneducated, is not as probable as you seem to think.
When thinking about vampires, I don't think there is a
scientific explanation. First of all, people don't
live forever. Brain cells die. So, a vampire wannabe
would have a condition similar to Alzheimer at his
200th birthday. Death would follow. Second, there is
no known method to do any of the things required from
this 'vampire retrovirus'. Not even close. Photosensitivity
and craving for blood, maybe, but superhuman strenght,
extremely long lifespan, ability to turn into a bat
perhaps... well, I don't think so.
-Jake
B J Kuehl
Sanguinarius writes:
> Thank you. Now at least I know I don't kave LUPUS!!
Don't rule it out. Lupus is sometimes not even detectible until
the person reaches middle age. Plus, there are different types
of lupus, i.e., discoid LE (aka cutaneous LE), systemic LE (aka
disseminated LE). Symptoms can range from a slight face rash
to acute polyarthritis, from sun sensitivity to endocarditis,
from swollen glands to organic brain syndrome.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
B J Kuehl
Frank Yenca asks:
> Sorry for the density, but what exactly _is_ a retrovirus, anyway?
> What's the difference between it and a "normal" virus?
Why don't we let some of the vampire retroviral experts answer
that question?
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
B J Kuehl
Jake writes:
> Sanguinar1 <sangu...@aol.com> wrote:
> : Jesus Christ, people!! Thsi the 21st centurie almost!!
>
> Maybe you should cool down a bit, think things over and
> then continue posting.
And maybe, if Sanguinarius really wants information and not just
to spout her vampire retrovirus theory one more time, she'll start
to post some intelligent descriptions of just what it is that she
is 'suffering' from.
So far, all we've heard is sarcasm, and stuff like "SANG NO GOT
THAT".
That's real helpful.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
Julian Richards
> Sanguinar1 <sangu...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> : Scientifically, if it's not a virus, then what IS it? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT?
> : WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT?
> : as stupid and NON-SCIENTIFIC as an invisible thing, or whatever. Got any
> : better suggestions?
>
> know that a DNA altering retrovirus which makes people
> stronger, extremely long-living and blood-drinking,
> doesn't make much more sense than an invisible symbiont.
>
> -Jake
Biophysics isn't my field but I'll get working on it. Best I can do for now
is alien DNA weopons (accidentally) released. The alterations may not be
complete due to some mismatch between the two systems, we may not have been
the intended target. The full monty could be to create fifth columnists
amongst the enemy, perhaps controlled by the owners. Perhaps we could
reverse engineer this theory to produce an episode of Star Trek.
Julian Richards
> >>as stupid and NON-SCIENTIFIC as an invisible thing, or whatever. Got any
> >>better suggestions?
> >
> >invisible thing = non-scientific? Show me a proton! Show me a quark!
Christ on a bike! Show them an episode of Star Trek and they think that
they're Stephen effing Hawking! Protons and quarks are invisible being
smaller than the wavelength of visible light but they are proved both in
rigorous mathematical theory and by the conclusive observation of the
effects that they cause. A couple more weeks in alt.v and I'll be up for the
Nobel prize for physics.
The Madman who is Sane
B J Kuehl wrote in message <695nlm$253$1...@uwm.edu>...
|When I wrote:
|>>I'll do the same. In the meantime, I remember Sang as a valuable
|>>and realistic poster to A.V., which is why I am concerned about
|>>this mania/psychosis/change/mental that she is going through. She's
|>>either under the influence of the mothership OR she is going through
|>>some psychophysiophysicospirituogical problems.
|
|Trickster responsed:
|> Or she owns a microwave.
|
|
|Actually, according to the theory as we've advanced it so far,
|it would appear that she does NOT own a microwave, since it
|appears that the microwave serves to intercept the transmissions
|from the mothership and provide protection to the owner....
|at least until the microwave dies.
|
|Perhaps Sang's microwave is broken? Or perhaps the aliens have
|gone into the microwave business and are producing and selling
|their own brand of microwave which does not contain the protective
|feature?
Maybe the aliens are trying to corner the microwave market by building
microwaves that intercept the mind-rays, as opposed to other brand names.
Of course, since the microwaves die after enough mind-rays are accumulated,
the consumer has to go out and buy another one in an endless cycle of
destruction. Neat.
The name says it all.
Madman who is Sane
P.S. If I don't mention contraantidisestablishmentariansm tomorrow, then
you will know that I have been taken by the alien mothership because I know
too much. Maybe then I will be able to meet the _real_ ScatterbuG (that's
right! I'm on to you!).
The Madman who is Sane
Shadowlrrk wrote in message
<19980110120...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
|>as stupid and NON-SCIENTIFIC as an invisible thing, or whatever. Got any
|>better suggestions?
|>--Sanguinarius
|
|invisible thing = non-scientific? Show me a proton! Show me a quark!
I don't believe in quarks. I also don't believe in gluons. It's all a
matter of opinion. Besides, protons (invisible things) have effects on
photons (visible things) in a predictable way, which means that they are
most likely real. Of course, since "quarks" are merely constituents of
protons which may or may not exist, there is less of a chance that they
exist... Did I just get off-topic? I've been posting too much stuff
involving quantum physics and relativity.
William R. Thompson
>In my case, it turned out to be celiac disease, a genetic inability
>to digest the gluten protein in grains such as wheat, rye, oatmeal
>and barley.
>Visits to the doctor brought me nothing but laughs at how it was
>all psychosomatic or that I was suffering from 'medical student's
>disease' (medical students contract everything they read about,
>doncha know).
And the rest of us are hypochondriacs, especially if we show any hint
of having some medical knowledge. I spent a couple of years thinking I
had celiac disease and other food allergies--a misdiagnosis that came
about because I had the symptoms of malabsorption, was permanently
underweight, had a cousin who had celiac, and improved somewhat when I
eliminated gluten from my diet.
Eventually I found out that UV light was causing me some serious
problems. My current doctor can't quite decide if it's an odd form of
lupus, or something else, or a combination of lupus and something else.
All I know is that as long as I stay out of the sun and don't spend too
much time under fluorescent lights, I'm fine. I can eat normal food
again and not get sick. No more four day bouts of cramps, diarrhea,
dehydration and rapid weight loss; no more heart palpitations, fatigue,
nosebleeds, mouth sores, rashes, joint and muscle pains, and sudden
drops in body temperature and blood pressure.
--Bill Thompson
William R. Thompson
In <19980110204...@ladder02.news.aol.com> sangu...@aol.com
(Sanguinar1) writes:
>
>>>When was the last time you the reader of this post, had a headache,
>>>watery eyes, stuffed nose, aches and pains, vomitting and diarrhea,
>>>loss of appetite etc.
>>>Scientifically, if it's not a virus, then what IS it? WHAT IS IT?
>>S., have you ever been tested for lupus? That's a possible
>>explanation for the symptoms you list here.
>BILLLLLLLL................!!!!!!!!
>I AM NOT DESCRIBING MY SYMPTOMS!!!!! IM DESCRIBING INFLUENZA
>SYMPTONS!!!!!
Oh. Some of the symptoms you mentioned sounded a lot like what I was
doing last Tuesday night through Thursday morning, and I didn't have
the flu--Tuesday evening I spent two minutes in the same room with one
of those goddam artificial-sunlight lamps. Talk about efficient. I've
never had the cramps, runs, mouth sores and nosebleeds show up so fast;
I'm just glad I got away from it before I caught enough rays to get
into some serious trouble.
I'm glad to hear from your earlier post that you don't have lupus.
--Bill Thompson
William R. Thompson
In <698q89$evm$1...@uwm.edu> b...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (B J Kuehl) writes:
>
>Sanguinarius asks:
>> How long does it TAKE for one to die from an illness/cndition going
>> undiagnosed? And wouldn't they be in degenerating state of health
>> the longer it went?
>(ever read food labels? Gluten, wheat starch, modified food starch...
>it's in EVERYTHING!
Postage stamps and envelopes seals, "thicker, creamier" soups and
pastes; look out for hydrolized vegetable protein as well.
>The usual outcome for celiac disease, if it isn't severe enough to
>kill you as a kid, is bowel cancer, but that doesn't usually happen
>until you hit middle-age.
Celiacs are also in a high-risk group for various forms of lymphatic
cancer. This is what killed my cousin Sherry when she was in her early
thirties (although she hadn't dealt well physically with her gluten
intolerance--it eased up when she was a teenager, and according to the
best medical information at the time, that meant she had recovered from
it).
--Bill Thompson
B J Kuehl
Bill T writes:
>>(ever read food labels? Gluten, wheat starch, modified food starch...
>>it's in EVERYTHING!
>
> Postage stamps and envelopes seals, "thicker, creamier" soups and
> pastes; look out for hydrolized vegetable protein as well.
Beer, vinegar, tomato soup, canned corn, corn tortillas, soy
sauce, lunchmeat, boullion cubes, taco seasoning, grain alcohol,
salad dressings, yogurt, vegetable dips, ice cream, Pringles,
imitation crab, hot dogs, potato salad, gravy....
.... and that's just the top of the list.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
B J Kuehl
Madman writes:
> P.S. If I don't mention contraantidisestablishmentariansm tomorrow, then
> you will know that I have been taken by the alien mothership because I know
> too much.
Nah, they'll just develop pseudopsychocontraantidiestablishmentarianism.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
ScatterbuG
Baby J wrote:
>Beer, vinegar, tomato soup, canned corn, corn tortillas, soy
>sauce, lunchmeat, boullion cubes, taco seasoning, grain alcohol,
>salad dressings, yogurt, vegetable dips, ice cream, Pringles,
>imitation crab, hot dogs, potato salad, gravy....
>
>.... and that's just the top of the list.
>
>
> ^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
>
>
cripes beej! yer kinda meant to be a vampire huh? ya can't digest
anything but blood...
ScatterbuG
-immortality through reruns-
http://www.mhonline.net/~scatter
ScatterbuG
"The Madman who is Sane" <ze...@iname.com> wrote:
>The name says it all.
>Madman who is Sane
>
>P.S. If I don't mention contraantidisestablishmentariansm tomorrow, then
>you will know that I have been taken by the alien mothership because I know
>too much. Maybe then I will be able to meet the _real_ ScatterbuG (that's
>right! I'm on to you!).
>
wha- WHAT?!? i have _no_ idea what you are talking about sir!
the very idea, indeed!
ScatterbuG
~sb to mothership, bring 'im in. he knows too much.~
B J Kuehl
When I wrote that I couldn't eat, along with anything containing
flour, grain gluten, wheat starch, modified food starch, or
enriched vegetable protein, plus any of the following:
>>sauce, lunchmeat, boullion cubes, taco seasoning, grain alcohol,
>>salad dressings, yogurt, vegetable dips, ice cream, Pringles,
>>imitation crab, hot dogs, potato salad, gravy....
>>.... and that's just the top of the list.
ScatterbuG criped:
> cripes beej! yer kinda meant to be a vampire huh? ya can't digest
> anything but blood...
Shall I mention that I cannot tolerate sunlight, find 65 degrees
or less to be most comfortable, and I've already lived four
lifetimes?
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
Chiller
B J Kuehl <b...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> opined thus: -
>Chiller writes:
>> I do not see any productive point in your railing
>> against what Sang has said. You believe different things.
>
>It's not a matter of belief. In the last 24 hours, the truth
>of Sanguinarius's problems has finally come to the surface.
>She is undergoing a divorce and craves blood. The two problems
>are, supposedly, unrelated.
Yes, I knew both those things when I posted my above reply.
They may be causally related in that it might simply be harder to hold
together a relationship when, as Sang believes, one is changing into
something one cannot rationally balance with reality / or suffering from
a yet-undiagnosed medical condition and all the attendant fear and
anxiety which goes with that.
Or perhaps, vice-versa, the stress of a failing relationship might give
rise to a wish to focus one's energies on something (*anything*) else,
hence resulting in psychosomatic symptoms.
Or the two events may be unrelated. Neither you nor I is qualified to
make any judgement.
>However, if Sanguinarius had spoken about these problems
>rather than ranting and raving about the validity of her
>retrovirus theory, she might have gotten the help and
>suggestions that she needs to find out what is really
>the root of her medical problems.
You are still approaching this from the point of view of someone who
gives no credence or importance to Sang's own belief about what is wrong
with her. The fact is, as long as you keep telling Sang that her
beliefs are nonsense and she is wrong in every regard, if this *is* a
psychosomatic or medical problem, you will actually make it worse by
causing her to cling more and more adamantly to her theories. Comments
such as the one where you urged her to go to a doctor and tell them she
has a Vampire retrovirus are most deconstructive. Certainly Sang should
go (IMO) and get herself checked out medically, but rubbing Sang's nose
in her own beliefs is not going to help her make that decision.
Lowering her sense of self-esteem and internal control will only force
Sang to internalise further, and grasp more desperately for that sense
of self-control ... and decrease the likelihood of her seeking external
help.
>Unfortunately, it took poking and proding to open her up.
>And I'm not sorry that I held the poker.
Well, I am delighted you have single-handedly cured Sang of all her
problems, and I am sure everyone else is too. Jolly good show, Beej.
No doubt Sang will post the appropriate thanks and commendments within
the next day or so.
Chiller
Ice and a slice?
chi...@cold.demon.co.uk
http://www.cold.demon.co.uk/index.html
B J Kuehl
Chiller writes:
> Well, I am delighted you have single-handedly cured Sang of all her
> problems, and I am sure everyone else is too. Jolly good show, Beej.
> No doubt Sang will post the appropriate thanks and commendments within
> the next day or so.
I never said that. But I really don't care because I'm following
Jake's initiative and killfiling the diseased and parasite-infested.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
B J Kuehl
I wrote:
> I'm following
> Jake's initiative and killfiling the diseased and parasite-infested.
Which reminds me. The movie "Omega Man" is being shown this
Monday on the American Movie Classics (AMC) channel. It stars
Charlton Heston as one of the last sane humans in a world taken
over by diseased vampires.
The movie is based on the book "I am Legend" by Richard Matheson
and was among the books about vampirism most highly recommended
by the respondents to the vampire fiction survey I performed and
posted maybe two months ago.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
~lil num
Sanguinar1 wrote:
> SANGI HAVE TOO GOOD OF HEALTH OVER ALL TO HAVE A VERY LOW IMMUNE SYSTEM
i'm sorry, i mustn't have explained myself cleary. the low immune
system is not necessarily a cause of contracting cfs/me, rather it is a
common result. also, an immune system which might be taxed by a common
cold or flu virus, or due to some type of trauma -beit emotional or
medical (such as a car accident or chemotherapy) can find it hard to
fight a secondary battle.
> TOO HYPER...
so am i for large parts of the year, doesn't stop me from being unable
to move the muscles in my body for periods of time during the rest of
the year..
> QUESTION: #1: Does the above symptoms come and go? IE Are one alright one day
> but then the next, less alright, and so forth, until one is x-amount bad-off?
> Then all the sudden, POINK! Back to being fine again?
yes, it comes and goes. that was one of the main reasons so many people
were told it was "all in their heads" for years. it has been known to
come on slowly or quickly, doesn't discriminate due to job or lifestyle,
etc.
it's a cyclic type of disorder, and can be treated with physiotherapy or
vitamin suppliments, muscle relaxants - or in more severe cases pain
killers.
> Q2: If so, WHAT is the contingent factor that make one--POINK!--fine again?
i have no idea, and neither do many doctors. although, there have been
claims that progress is being made in recognition, diagnosis and
treatment.
for more information, you can join the email list of the newsgroup -
alt.med.cfs - you can subscribe to the group by emailing the following
to LIST...@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU - "SUB CFSNEWS yourfirstname
yourlastname". this list specifically deals with medical information,
breakthroughs, published research, etc. more information about the list
can be found at http://www.cais.com/cfs-news/cfs-news.htm
a faq on the disorder is available at
http://www.cais.com/cfs-news/faq.htm and information about the patients
discussion group and email list is available at
http://www.cais.com/cfs-news/cfs-l.htm
hope some of this might help
~lil num
Amy Krieytaz
Sanguinar1 wrote:
[...]
> So does the flu virus, which symptomms I ws describing...
> BTW Sangi no have this....
Yet another misunderstanding, it seems. A couple of days ago, Sangi
posted a message describing flu symptoms, not for the purpose of saying
she herself had flu symptoms, but for the purpose of drawing an analogy
-- or so it seemed to ME, anyway. However, everyone who replied (so far
among the messages I've looked at, at least) seemed to think Sangi was
desribing her own symptoms in that post.
Misunderstandings of this sort seem quite common here, from what I've
observed these past couple of weeks. And the parties involved just keep
shouting at each other without trying to figure out the sources of their
misunderstandings -- which could easily have been prevented if only
people would pay a little more attention to the messages they're
replying to. Maybe you're all just burned out, as some posters have
indicated?
Yes, I'm only a newbie here, and I'm sorry if I may seem presumptuous by
voicing these observations. But I HATE wading through postings by
people who talk at each other without listening to each other. If any
of you are so burned out that you can't even take the time to *READ*
what you're replying to, then why do you bother posting at all?
Amy Krieytaz
Chiller wrote:
> B J Kuehl <b...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> opined thus: -
[...]
> >It's not a matter of belief. In the last 24 hours, the truth
> >of Sanguinarius's problems has finally come to the surface.
> >She is undergoing a divorce and craves blood. The two problems
> >are, supposedly, unrelated.
>
> Yes, I knew both those things when I posted my above reply.
>
> They may be causally related in that it might simply be harder to hold
> together a relationship when, as Sang believes, one is changing into
> something one cannot rationally balance with reality / or suffering from
> a yet-undiagnosed medical condition and all the attendant fear and
> anxiety which goes with that.
>
> Or perhaps, vice-versa, the stress of a failing relationship might give
> rise to a wish to focus one's energies on something (*anything*) else,
> hence resulting in psychosomatic symptoms.
According to what Sangi has told me in E-mail and chat, she has craved
blood since '89 or so, whereas her divorce is happening only within the
past month. In that case, the two problems would not be related in
either of the above ways.
[...]
> >However, if Sanguinarius had spoken about these problems
> >rather than ranting and raving about the validity of her
> >retrovirus theory, she might have gotten the help and
> >suggestions that she needs to find out what is really
> >the root of her medical problems.
>
> You are still approaching this from the point of view of someone who
> gives no credence or importance to Sang's own belief about what is wrong
> with her. The fact is, as long as you keep telling Sang that her
> beliefs are nonsense and she is wrong in every regard, if this *is* a
> psychosomatic or medical problem, you will actually make it worse by
> causing her to cling more and more adamantly to her theories. Comments
> such as the one where you urged her to go to a doctor and tell them she
> has a Vampire retrovirus are most deconstructive. Certainly Sang should
> go (IMO) and get herself checked out medically, but rubbing Sang's nose
> in her own beliefs is not going to help her make that decision.
Very well put. (And, BJ, please do not take my endorsement of the above
as a put-down of the scientific rigor you advocate.)
B J Kuehl
Amy Krieytaz writes:
>Yet another misunderstanding, it seems. A couple of days ago, Sangi
>posted a message describing flu symptoms, not for the purpose of saying
>she herself had flu symptoms, but for the purpose of drawing an analogy
>-- or so it seemed to ME, anyway. However, everyone who replied (so far
>among the messages I've looked at, at least) seemed to think Sangi was
>desribing her own symptoms in that post.
>
>Misunderstandings of this sort seem quite common here, from what I've
>observed these past couple of weeks. And the parties involved just keep
>shouting at each other without trying to figure out the sources of their
>misunderstandings -- which could easily have been prevented if only
>people would pay a little more attention to the messages they're
>replying to. Maybe you're all just burned out, as some posters have
>indicated?
>
>Yes, I'm only a newbie here, and I'm sorry if I may seem presumptuous by
>voicing these observations. But I HATE wading through postings by
>people who talk at each other without listening to each other. If any
>of you are so burned out that you can't even take the time to *READ*
>what you're replying to, then why do you bother posting at all?
Sanguinarius has already made it clear that, in her opinion,
any problems she has are due to a vampire retrovirus.
A number of alternative explanations have been offered to her.
In each case, however, the suggestion has also been made that
Sanguinarius consult with a medical doctor and/or a psychologist
or psychiatrist.
If Sanguinarius chooses not to comply with the advice as given
to her, then her other option is to consult with her diseased
colleagues and let THEM do their own research and determine
their own course of treatment.
I cannot speak for anyone else on this subject but, quite
frankly, I don't have the time or energy anymore for this
vampire retrovirus nonsense.
I also think you're more than a bit presumptuous when you accuse
the posters here of not paying attention to what they read.
^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^
B J Kuehl
Amy Krieytaz writes:
> Very well put. (And, BJ, please do not take my endorsement of the above
> as a put-down of the scientific rigor you advocate.)
BJ NO CARE ANYMORE BECAUSE BJ NO READ THIS NONSENSE ANYMORE
Trickster
Jarno Uurainen <ja...@kontunet.fi> wrote:
>Perhaps not, but just because YOU say something doesn't mean
>that I should accept it.
>
>To save yourself from a lot of argument and stress,
>I would advice you to shut up about revolutionary
>retroviruses until you have the facts to back up your
>theories.
Why should she have to never share her own
personal opinions with the newsgroup? I could be wrong,
but I don't remember Sang every trying to push her own beliefs
onto others, saying "you can't/shouldn't believe anything else" or
anything of the sort.. she's just trying to share her own opinions.
Isn't that part of what the newsgroup is about?
Damn people have gotten vicious on here lately
Amy Krieytaz
B J Kuehl wrote:
>
> Amy Krieytaz writes:
> >Yet another misunderstanding, it seems. A couple of days ago, Sangi
> >posted a message describing flu symptoms, not for the purpose of saying
> >she herself had flu symptoms, but for the purpose of drawing an analogy
> >-- or so it seemed to ME, anyway. However, everyone who replied (so far
> >among the messages I've looked at, at least) seemed to think Sangi was
> >desribing her own symptoms in that post.
[...]
> Sanguinarius has already made it clear that, in her opinion,
> any problems she has are due to a vampire retrovirus.
>
> A number of alternative explanations have been offered to her.
> In each case, however, the suggestion has also been made that
> Sanguinarius consult with a medical doctor and/or a psychologist
> or psychiatrist.
>
> If Sanguinarius chooses not to comply with the advice as given
> to her, then her other option is to consult with her diseased
> colleagues and let THEM do their own research and determine
> their own course of treatment.
The above summary of recent goings-on (whose accuracy I could dispute,
but I won't bother unless asked), is irrelevant to the point I was
making, which was to point out a specific type of misunderstanding,
giving a specific example of same (re-quoted at the top of this post).
Be that as it may, I agree that Sangi should see a doctor as soon as she
can afford to.
> I cannot speak for anyone else on this subject but, quite
> frankly, I don't have the time or energy anymore for this
> vampire retrovirus nonsense.
>
> I also think you're more than a bit presumptuous when you accuse
> the posters here of not paying attention to what they read.
Sorry, but I caught y'all red-handed. See again the above-quoted
example. Perhaps your lack of "time or energy anymore for this vampire
retrovirus nonsense" is the REASON why some folks here aren't paying
close attention to the posts you're responding to -- but, in any case,
it is a fact that some folks aren't paying attention. That being the
case, you probably are best off withdrawing from the discussion
completely, as you have indicated a desire to do.
Anyhow, thanks for the info and insights that you did share within tha
past couple of days.