Elizabeth Miller

Marcovaldo

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Jan 8, 2022, 5:27:53 PM1/8/22

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Dr. Miller used to post to this board back in the 2000's.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=4966341283396228&id=110889415608130

Incubus

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Jan 10, 2022, 4:55:47 AM1/10/22

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On 2022-01-08, Marcovaldo <tana...@hushmail.com> wrote:
> Dr. Miller used to post to this board back in the 2000's.
>
> https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=4966341283396228&id=110889415608130

I remember her on this group. I didn't necessarily agree with her
analysis of the origins of Stoker's Dracula but it was interesting.

bj kuehl

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Jul 2, 2023, 6:13:11 PM7/2/23

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I had the opportunity to read Stoker's original writing notes, housed at the Rosenbach Museum in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and Miller appears to be right in that Stoker did not know about Vlad Dracula until he came across an 1888 book (_The Land Beyond the Forest_ by Emily Gerard) in which Gerard described the atrocities committed by voivode Vlad Dracul II (Vlad the Devil/Dragon). Stoker apparently took the name of Vlad Dracul's son, Vlad Dracula III (son of the devil/dragon, whose real name was Vlad Basarab) for his vampire. This wasn't until much later in Stoker's writing process. His first choice for the name of his vampire was Count Wampyr. What is most interesting to me is for us to look at the various vampire stories prior to 'Dracula' that might have influenced Stoker

Babyjinx

Marcovaldo

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Jul 4, 2023, 10:33:05 PM7/4/23

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On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 3:13:11 PM UTC-7, bj kuehl wrote:
> I had the opportunity to read Stoker's original writing notes, housed at the Rosenbach Museum in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and Miller appears to be right in that Stoker did not know about Vlad Dracula until he came across an 1888 book (_The Land Beyond the Forest_ by Emily Gerard) in which Gerard described the atrocities committed by voivode Vlad Dracul II (Vlad the Devil/Dragon). Stoker apparently took the name of Vlad Dracul's son, Vlad Dracula III (son of the devil/dragon, whose real name was Vlad Basarab) for his vampire. This wasn't until much later in Stoker's writing process. His first choice for the name of his vampire was Count Wampyr. What is most interesting to me is for us to look at the various vampire stories prior to 'Dracula' that might have influenced Stoker
>
> Babyjinx

I imagine it would be pretty awesome to read Stoker's original notes. How did they end up in Philadelphia?

I, for one, am glad he came across the Gerard book. "Count Wampyr" is a little too on the nose!

Incubus

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Jul 5, 2023, 7:34:15 AM7/5/23

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On 2023-07-02, bj kuehl <baby...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I had the opportunity to read Stoker's original writing notes, housed at the Rosenbach Museum in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and Miller appears to be right in that Stoker did not know about Vlad Dracula until he came across an 1888 book (_The Land Beyond the Forest_ by Emily Gerard) in which Gerard described the atrocities committed by voivode Vlad Dracul II (Vlad the Devil/Dragon). Stoker apparently took the name of Vlad Dracul's son, Vlad Dracula III (son of the devil/dragon, whose real name was Vlad Basarab) for his vampire. This wasn't until much later in Stoker's writing process. His first choice for the name of his vampire was Count Wampyr. What is most interesting to me is for us to look at the various vampire stories prior to 'Dracula' that might have influenced Stoker

I got hold of the unabridged edition of Varney the Vampire a few years
ago, but Carmilla will have been a far better influence.

bj kuehl

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Jul 5, 2023, 4:53:03 PM7/5/23

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Another vampire who might have influenced Stoker is John Polidori's Lord
Ruthven, who first appeared in an 1819 short story titled 'The Vampyre'.
Ruthven went on to become immensely popular in the 1800s and appeared
in numerous novels and stage plays.

Unfortunately, I searched through Stoker's notes and didn't find any mention
of these stories or the authors. Since they were all English, and vampires
were very popular in England during the 1800s, any or all of these vampires
might have left an impression on Stoker.

I just discovered that there is a book available on Amazon titled _Bram Stoker's
Notes for Dracula_, authored by Elizabeth Miller (among others). Might be worth
ordering.

bj kuehl

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Jul 5, 2023, 11:46:41 PM7/5/23

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Oh wow! I just did a search on 'Stoker notes Dracula' and found a website containing
Stoker's original notes from the Rosenbach Museum. Anyone interested in this
discussion might wish to take a look. I have not yet read through them, as they are
quite extensive, as are the footnotes. What a wonderful find!

Incubus

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Jul 6, 2023, 12:26:19 PM7/6/23

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On 2023-07-05, bj kuehl <baby...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Another vampire who might have influenced Stoker is John Polidori's Lord
> Ruthven, who first appeared in an 1819 short story titled 'The Vampyre'.
> Ruthven went on to become immensely popular in the 1800s and appeared
> in numerous novels and stage plays.
>
> Unfortunately, I searched through Stoker's notes and didn't find any mention
> of these stories or the authors. Since they were all English, and vampires
> were very popular in England during the 1800s, any or all of these vampires
> might have left an impression on Stoker.
>
> I just discovered that there is a book available on Amazon titled _Bram Stoker's
> Notes for Dracula_, authored by Elizabeth Miller (among others). Might be worth
> ordering.

Too late to be an influence on Stoker (her novel was released in 1897 -
the same year that Dracula was released), but The Blood of the Vampire
by Florence Marryat is an excellent, overlooked read.

There is also the "Icelandic" edition of Dracula, available in English
translated as "The Powers of Darkness" but it is only half-finished, the
latter half really just being a plot outline rather than prose. It's a
shame because it is a rewrite that is claimed to have been authorised by
Stoker.

Incubus

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Jul 6, 2023, 12:27:36 PM7/6/23

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I will have to have a look at that.

Have you read any of the novels by Stoker's descendant?

bj kuehl

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Jul 6, 2023, 8:04:36 PM7/6/23

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On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 11:27:36 AM UTC-5, Incubus wrote:
> Have you read any of the novels by Stoker's descendant?

Thank you, Incubus, for making me aware of these books. I've ordered
them from Amazon and can't wait to start reading them. Last I was
aware, Stoker's widow sued whoever made the film "Nosferatu",
which was obviously based on Stoker's _Dracula_.

Marcovaldo

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Jul 6, 2023, 10:33:07 PM7/6/23

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I enjoyed "Dracul" by Dacre Stoker and J.D. Barker.

Marcovaldo

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Jul 6, 2023, 10:42:41 PM7/6/23

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I have that one. If I remember correctly, the word "vampire" is not even used. Maybe Stoker had not yet decided what type of creature Dracula was supposed to be? Interesting that Dracula had a housekeeper.

Incubus

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Jul 7, 2023, 7:37:32 AM7/7/23

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I thought the first novel was okay but his second one, Dracul, is one of
my favourites.

Incubus

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Jul 7, 2023, 7:39:28 AM7/7/23

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I didn't expect to like it all that much, although the plot sounded more
interesting than his "sequel". In a short period of time, I found
myself loving the novel.

bj kuehl

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Jul 7, 2023, 8:35:10 PM7/7/23

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> I imagine it would be pretty awesome to read Stoker's original notes. How did they end up in Philadelphia?

According to the Foreward in __Stoker's Notes for Dracula_, the acquisition went like this. Stoker's widow
Florence sold them at Sotheby's in 1918, a year after Stoker's death, to a New York book dealer named
James Drake. What Drake did with them is unknown, but they reappeared in 1930s and 1940s as part of
the inventory of Charles Scribner's Sons in New York. After that, the trail goes cold again, until the Rosenbach
Museum in Philadelphia acquired them in 1970 from bookseller Charles Sessler. And there they have remained.

^BabyJinx^