Monrail Ridership Down Again

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VegasRex

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Sep 23, 2006, 1:01:57 PM9/23/06
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I can't find the link on the news site, but I was watching TV and they
said that (don't quote me on exact numbers as I am going from memory
but the gist is the same) that ridership is down 30% from a year ago,
and down 19% just this three months from the prior three months.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this is a swan five. Down 19% in 3
months? Holy shit.

I want the monorail to succeed, but holy shit.

I realized last week after I took three people to the MGM Lion exhibit
last week why this is happening. 4 people walked 15 minutes to Sahara
monorail: 2 R/T Tickets @ $9 = $18.

Looked at the exhibit, walked over to NY/NY for some dining, back to
the MGM.

Contemplated taking the monorail back (the Sahara station being a mere
15 minute walk from the home we started from).

Got in line at the cab stand. Tipped cab stand guy $1. Fare back home
was $12.70 via Paradise/Sahara. Tipped cabbie $3. Total cost =
$16.70.

It cost $1.30 LESS, door-to-door, taking a cab rather than taking the
monorail. And the cab entailed NO walking and it dropped us off at our
front door.

That is a real statistic folks, and it blew my mind.

Especially if you are travelling with more than one person, there is a
NEGATIVE financial benefit of taking the monorail over taking a taxi!
And we can't even count the intangibles such as hoofing it through
entire casino's just to get to the monorail.

I don't understand how any mass-transit system could be expected to
survive under such circumstances.

It simply makes more sense to pile into a cab than take the train, and
until that is corrected, I have no idea how the community can convince
people to pile in and make a profit.

$9-$10 one-way for two people just isn't possible, and ridership will
continue to bleed until the trains run back and forth empty.

Something simply has to be done about the fare structure. The numbers
don't lie, and people are not finding the rail economically viable at
these prices. A near 20% drop means that something needs to be done.
A quick. How many more 20% drops can you have before you have one guy
that represents the total ridership?

JP

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Sep 23, 2006, 2:05:39 PM9/23/06
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"VegasRex" <veg...@vegasrex.com> wrote in message
news:1159030917.6...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...

> I can't find the link on the news site, but I was watching TV and they
> said that (don't quote me on exact numbers as I am going from memory
> but the gist is the same) that ridership is down 30% from a year ago,
> and down 19% just this three months from the prior three months.
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but this is a swan five. Down 19% in 3
> months? Holy shit.

snip snip


I couldn't have said it any better myself. You would think the "big boys"
would have done a better job with the fare structure before the monofail was
built.

JP


Paul E. Wog

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Sep 23, 2006, 3:37:43 PM9/23/06
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VegasRex wrote:

> I can't find the link on the news site,

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Sep-20-Wed-2006/news/9753611.html

"The Las Vegas Monorail is wrapping up the summer months with ridership
in a deep freeze, failing to top 20,000 daily riders on a regular basis
in recent months.

The rapid transit line averaged just 18,963 daily riders in June, July
and August of this year.

That was a drop of 38 percent from the same months in 2005, when 30,735
people rode the system every day, according to monorail statistics."

I loved this part:

"Monorail officials have said they expected a sluggish summer, and they
hope that marketing efforts as of late will eventually increase
ridership to healthier levels."

Lets help them out with that marketing campaign...

"The monorail would love to take you for a ride in Vegas"

Or how about:

"Not nearly as much of a boondoggle as the Springfield monorail".

I like the monorail and used it many times before the price went up.
Even thought they blew it on a number of fronts, (location, location,
location), as a single traveler I still found it convenient at times.
But at the price they want for it now the only place I can see it
traveling now is into receivership.

glassman

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Sep 23, 2006, 7:38:23 PM9/23/06
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"JP" <john...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:THeRg.169$8U2.54@trndny08...

It'll be free once they figure out a way to bombard you with advertising
while you ride, and install video slots to play!

--
JK Sinrod
www.SinrodStudios.com
www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com


VegasRex

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Sep 23, 2006, 8:27:33 PM9/23/06
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> It'll be free once they figure out a way to bombard you with advertising
> while you ride, and install video slots to play!
>
> --
> JK Sinrod
> www.SinrodStudios.com
> www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com

They have already done the former. The trains are wrapped in ads, the
inside of the trains are painted in ads, and there are pre-recorded ads
for the duration of the trip .... "we are arriving at the Hilton, be
sure to check out Barry Manilow and the Star Trek exhibit", "we are
approaching the Sahara, be sure to check out the Nascar Experience",
etc, etc, etc.

Like Paul (E Wog .. cute) I often ride the monorail by myself 2 or 3
times per week for runs between poker rooms. I buy 10 packs (at the
low, low price of only $3.50 per ride), and only ride by myself.

It makes no sense for more than a one-person party to ride the
monorail.

If I am with anyone else, I save the trips on the fare card and take a
cab. It's just cheaper and more convenient.

I am an east coast transplant, and I hate driving. I never had to do
it before. And I hate driving with a purple passion. Especially in
this town where every driver would endure a colonoscopy before exerting
the effort to use a turn signal (keep 'em guessing is the motto on the
streets here). More often than not I take city transit to the strip,
and shuttle between casino's on the monorail, Duece, or Trolley .... or
if I am just tired ... a cab. If I HAVE to drive, I wait until way
off-peak hours to get on the roads.

I would be tickled shitless if we had a viable transit system serving
the big hotel corridor. I want the monofail to succeed. I really,
really, really do.

But, I just don't understand who is running the show. How on earth are
they going to make a system succeed that is MORE EXPENSIVE THAN A
CAB??????

It boggles the mind. Who is going to take mass-transit when a door to
door cheuffer is cheaper? Nobody. Okay, nobody except Ed Begley Jr.

Seriously, the bean counters cannot be serious. "Well, we realize this
is the most expensive form of transit in the city .... so we'll just
advertise more!"

Advertise what? "20% more than a cab and a whole lot more
inconvenient!"

Right now it is useful for individual riders shuttling between
east-side strip casino's ... and possibly the South Strip which can be
easily accessed via the (free) Mandalay Monorail after the 1 mile walk
through the MGM and across the Boulevard.

For everyone else, who make up 99% of the visitors, it is a waste of
time and money.

Please, somebody please, tell me that somebody somewhere has a bigger
plan than "We'll advertise it more".

Just lie to me if you have to, but please tell me that's not the extent
of it.

It won't work. I will grant you that people are dumb and easily
manipulated by advertising, but they aren't all chronically stupid. 1
ride will sticker-shock everyone with an IQ of 80 or above right back
into a cab.

VEGAS24HRS.COM

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Sep 24, 2006, 1:39:49 AM9/24/06
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I rode the monorail for the first time last week and it was clean, nice
and pleasant and ran pretty efficiently but I was one of 4 people
sharing a car. It is sad, lower the price guys and increase ridership,
don't spend marketing dollars to surcharge the fare instead lower the
prices and create a sneeze virus and ridership will increase.

David D
http://www.vegas24hrs.com
Home of the $99 Travel Deal

Andrew in Alabama

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Sep 24, 2006, 8:21:52 AM9/24/06
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Damb, "VegasRex" <veg...@vegasrex.com>, do I have to 'splain
EVERYTHING to your dumn ass????

>It cost $1.30 LESS, door-to-door, taking a cab rather than taking the
>monorail. And the cab entailed NO walking and it dropped us off at our
>front door.

The LV monorail is the exception that proves the rule "You can never
go broke underestimating the intelligence of the public."


--

Andrew <-- is it OCTOBER yet?


This boring sig brought to you by the AVLV peace agreement of August, 2006

None

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Sep 24, 2006, 3:17:18 PM9/24/06
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Assuming you are a local, and have a valid Nevada Drivers license/ID; you
can purchase "locals fare" tickets for $1.00 each. These are one way and
you can only purchase 2 per ID, but it sure the hell beats the $3.50 on the
10 ride ticket.

You purchase the local tickets at the Vegas.com booth next to the automated
machines. Be aware the booths are only open business hours, think the close
down around 5-6 pm.


"VegasRex" <veg...@vegasrex.com> wrote in message
news:1159030917.6...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...

VegasRex

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Sep 24, 2006, 3:29:51 PM9/24/06
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>Andrew in Alabama wrote:
>
> The LV monorail is the exception that proves the rule "You can never
> go broke underestimating the intelligence of the public."

I think they are going broke. I know they are currently flush with
cash reserves, but I don't think they are actually turning a profit on
the rail operation.

Andrew in Alabama

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Sep 24, 2006, 3:59:40 PM9/24/06
to
Damb, "VegasRex" <veg...@vegasrex.com>, do I have to 'splain
EVERYTHING to your dumn ass????

>> The LV monorail is the exception that proves the rule "You can never


>> go broke underestimating the intelligence of the public."
>
>I think they are going broke.

Hence, they are the exception.

VegasRex

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Sep 24, 2006, 4:48:17 PM9/24/06
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Andrew in Alabama wrote:
> Damb, "VegasRex" <veg...@vegasrex.com>, do I have to 'splain
> EVERYTHING to your dumn ass????
>
> >> The LV monorail is the exception that proves the rule "You can never
> >> go broke underestimating the intelligence of the public."
> >
> >I think they are going broke.
>
> Hence, they are the exception.


Not if they raise ticket prices to say $800,000 each way or $600,000
round-trip.

Then we would need, what .... 3 or 4 daily riders to break even.

A well-worded ad campaign will get us there easily.

glassman

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Sep 24, 2006, 5:41:23 PM9/24/06
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"VegasRex" <veg...@vegasrex.com> wrote in message
news:1159057652.9...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Just lie to me if you have to, but please tell me that's not the extent
> of it.
>


OK here's something to look forward to. The baby boomers are aging and
they make up the bulk of the population. When they start giving up the
walking at 75-80 years old, maybe that will increase ridership? OK I'm
stretching. Seriously the biggest jolt in their favor will be an airport to
downtown track. They'll probably charge $50, and screw it up anyway.

JP

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Sep 24, 2006, 6:15:15 PM9/24/06
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"Andrew in Alabama" <andr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hsodh25vk6b6tdgsj...@4ax.com...

"Hence, they are the exception". Don't have to be a rocket scientist to come
up with that answer andrew.

JP


Andrew in Alabama

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Sep 24, 2006, 6:22:54 PM9/24/06
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Damb, "JP" <john...@verizon.net>, do I have to 'splain EVERYTHING to
your dumn ass????

>"Hence, they are the exception". Don't have to be a rocket scientist to come


>up with that answer andrew.

Well that's good, since I am not a rocket scientist.

VegasRex

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Sep 24, 2006, 6:38:37 PM9/24/06
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>glassman wrote:
> OK here's something to look forward to. The baby boomers are aging and
> they make up the bulk of the population. When they start giving up the
> walking at 75-80 years old, maybe that will increase ridership? OK I'm
> stretching. Seriously the biggest jolt in their favor will be an airport to
> downtown track. They'll probably charge $50, and screw it up anyway.


Therin lies the problem, IMHO.

The monorail actually requires that you walk MORE instead of LESS.

I took the monorail last night. I played poker at the Venetian. I got
off at Harrah's, and I swear it was a good mile walk until I got to the
V poker room. Cab, Bus, Trolley, ANYTING would have entailed less
walking.

Even front door Sahara to front door MGM is a good 1 to 1.5 mile walk
even though the rail serves both of those casino's directly.

I like the fact that it soars above the stoplights and fender-benders
below, but unless you are going to extremes (MGM-Sahara, MGM-Convention
Center, Flamingo-Hilton), it's almost more convenient to just walk
between casino's.

I don't mind walking, and I am really, really trying to love the
monorail. I probably ride it more than anyone else in town just
because I want to support it. It might save some time between two
particular points (and they have to be very particular points), but one
thing it isn't going to save anyone is foot-pounding ...or cash.

Sometimes I have a car all to myself, and while I enjoy the space and
my choice of seat, that just can't be good from a financial standpoint.

Nonnymus

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Sep 24, 2006, 6:43:07 PM9/24/06
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VEGAS24HRS.COM wrote:
> I rode the monorail for the first time last week and it was clean, nice
> and pleasant and ran pretty efficiently but I was one of 4 people
> sharing a car. It is sad, lower the price guys and increase ridership,
> don't spend marketing dollars to surcharge the fare instead lower the
> prices and create a sneeze virus and ridership will increase.

I'm not a marketing expert by any means, but if I was running the
Monorail, I'd start out with a price that would entice ridership. I'd
let it become ingrained in the tourists and locals that the Monorail is
"the way" to move about on the lower Strip. Then, after it had become
an icon of the Strip, they could raise prices to a more profitable
level. That should have been built into the debt issue when it was put
together.
--
---Nonnymus---
In the periodic table, as in politics,
the unstable elements tend to hang out on
the far left, with some to the right as well.

Uncle Peter

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Sep 24, 2006, 7:38:49 PM9/24/06
to

The monorail was dead the minute the Deuces hit the
Strip. Full 24-hour pass for the cost of a SINGLE
monorail ride. Door to door service - Fremont St.
to the Klondike (RIP) and beyond, and transfers
to boot for the CATs . A bit slow at times,
but it works.

Pete


Andrew in Alabama

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Sep 24, 2006, 8:01:40 PM9/24/06
to
Damb, "Uncle Peter" <radioco...@cox.net>, do I have to 'splain

EVERYTHING to your dumn ass????

>

Agreed. I have actually ridden the deuce, and the view from the top
floor, front seats is ultra cool.

tom ronson

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Sep 24, 2006, 7:58:43 PM9/24/06
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"Uncle Peter" <radioco...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:sGERg.1405$b23.498@dukeread07...

>
> The monorail was dead the minute the Deuces hit the
> Strip.

and the nail in the coffin was the recent addition of 600 cab licenses (to
the prior 2,000). The reason stated for the change was a lack of viable
transport in the city.

--tr

................................................................
Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
>>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<
-=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

VegasRex

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Sep 24, 2006, 8:04:11 PM9/24/06
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Not only that, but I overheard one passenger give this advice to
another passenger this advice the last time I was on the Deuce (July).

Random Guy: "Dude, get a window seat up here on the right side of the
bus!"

Dude: "Why?"

Random Guy: "You can totally see down chick's shirts. I've been
looking a titties all day riding this thing"

Tacky? Yes.

True? I didn't test it out, but probably.

Gives a new meaning to the term "Deuce Bus".

( I have the flu today, so I am taking the time to post all kinds of
useless crap)

Marsha L

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Sep 24, 2006, 8:06:19 PM9/24/06
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Any truck driver would have told you the same thing...

"VegasRex" <veg...@vegasrex.com> wrote in message

news:1159142651.6...@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

tom ronson

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Sep 24, 2006, 8:07:39 PM9/24/06
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"VegasRex" <veg...@vegasrex.com> wrote in message

> ( I have the flu today, so I am taking the time to post all kinds of
> useless crap)

sorry you're not feeling well, but that's far from "useless crap" my friend.
;)

frank

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Sep 25, 2006, 10:09:44 AM9/25/06
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On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 17:41:23 -0400, "glassman" <jksi...@aol.com>
wrote:

>
>"VegasRex" <veg...@vegasrex.com> wrote in message
>news:1159057652.9...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Just lie to me if you have to, but please tell me that's not the extent
>> of it.
>>
>
>
> OK here's something to look forward to. The baby boomers are aging and
>they make up the bulk of the population. When they start giving up the
>walking at 75-80 years old, maybe that will increase ridership? OK I'm
>stretching. Seriously the biggest jolt in their favor will be an airport to
>downtown track. They'll probably charge $50, and screw it up anyway.


You have it backwards. Most of today's retired people are more
physically active than their grandchildren.

salmo...@aol.com

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Sep 25, 2006, 10:43:00 AM9/25/06
to
> Random Guy: "Dude, get a window seat up here on the right side of the
> bus!"
>
> Dude: "Why?"
>
> Random Guy: "You can totally see down chick's shirts. I've been
> looking a titties all day riding this thing"

And people say we don't give out enough useful advice on AVLV! This
isn't quite up to the level of the super-secret Terminal C security
gate, but it's not bad.

JP

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Sep 25, 2006, 10:49:07 AM9/25/06
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"Nonnymus" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:ARDRg.98$gM1.60@fed1read12...

The planners must have calculated that the mono would be so loved by the
visitors, that they would use it, regardless of the fare. WRONG. It once
took me no more time to walk the strip from the excalibur to the front of
ballys, than it would have taken me to walk thru the MGM grand...ride the
monorail to ballys and walk thru ballys back to the strip.

JP


JP

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Sep 25, 2006, 10:52:33 AM9/25/06
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"VegasRex" <veg...@vegasrex.com> wrote in message
news:1159137517.8...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

The only reason this mono runs behind the hotels is because part of it was
already up and running. If there had been no existing mono at all, you would
have seen this thing going down the middle of the strip, where it should be.
Transit stations would be connected to walkways and we would have easy
assess to the hotels. In the future, people could jump on at the airport and
get off infront of their hotels. That appears highly unlikely.

JP


JP

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Sep 25, 2006, 10:54:00 AM9/25/06
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"Andrew in Alabama" <andr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:691eh2hv9rm1ebt1r...@4ax.com...

Don't they use a monorail for public transit in downtown montgomery andrew?
or is that birmingham I'm thinking of?

JP


Andrew in Alabama

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Sep 25, 2006, 11:24:49 AM9/25/06
to
Damb, "JP" <john...@verizon.net>, do I have to 'splain EVERYTHING to
your dumn ass????

>Don't they use a monorail for public transit in downtown montgomery andrew?


>or is that birmingham I'm thinking of?

Neither, as far as I know.

--

Andrew <-- is it OCTOBER yet?

"Either stalk someone, engage in incest, or STFU!"

-- "Octopus Ride" in alt.vacation.las-vegas

VegasRex

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Sep 25, 2006, 1:14:19 PM9/25/06
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> >Don't they use a monorail for public transit in downtown montgomery andrew?
> >or is that birmingham I'm thinking of?

Public transit in Alabama consists of a John Deere Tractor driven by a
man named Cletus. Fare is exacly 1/2 cup of moonshine each way (a jug
for a monthly pass). There is a tailer attachment filled with hay for
the riding (and tooth picking) comfort of all passengers who must jump
on and off at their destinations as the tractor don't stop till Cletus
passes out from the shine.

And it's STILL more efficient than our monorail.

Big Mikey

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Sep 26, 2006, 1:42:14 AM9/26/06
to
Be honest Marsha...you ever done the flash on the 15?

Or have you and your man ever given them truckers a free show?

Women are much crazier than men on the highway. Trust me, I know these
things. The 95/Rainbow curve at 5:30 pm isn't called the curve for nothing,
dear.

Big Mikey

"Marsha L" <Those...@gobbledygook.gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%3FRg.215726$5i3....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Big Mikey

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Sep 26, 2006, 1:47:46 AM9/26/06
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I do too. If only it went to Disneyland. Or even the airport so I could
take the a Jetblue to Disneyland...

or Chicago.

Big Mikey

> "VegasRex" <veg...@vegasrex.com> wrote in message
> news:1159030917.6...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...

> > I want the monorail to succeed, but holy shit.
.


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