Filter

[Ken Blake]

The answer is probably "No, Agent can't do what you want," but just in
case I'm wrong, let me ask.

I would like Agent 6.0 to have a filter that will kill all messages in
any thread that has a message in it more than one week old. Is it
possible to do this, or something like it, and if so, how can I do it?

--
Ken Blake

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

[Default] On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 07:56:33 -0700, Ken Blake

Can't do it. Agent cannot filter on date, and also cannot do an "if
(condition of other message) then do (this) to (this message)" which
is what you'd need.

Best you can do is set your "what to purge" appropriately to 7 days,
but of course that won't stop old threads from recurring.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"It should always be a Sunday but, unfortunately, it hardly ever is."
- Jeff Noon, Automated Alice

[Ralph Fox]

On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 07:56:33 -0700, in message <kvesk71c8u3jkh5eb...@4ax.com>
Ken Blake wrote:

> The answer is probably "No, Agent can't do what you want," but just in
> case I'm wrong, let me ask.
>
> I would like Agent 6.0 to have a filter that will kill all messages in
> any thread that has a message in it more than one week old.

This has some interesting side-effects whioch could be exploited.
Joe Anyone could take out any thread in your news reader, simply by
posting a follow up message with a week-old date.

Think of the uses! For example, certain religions could use it to
protect you from discussions which they deem to be apostatical or
heretical.


--
Kind regards
Ralph

[Ken Blake]

On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 16:12:01 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh
<jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:

> [Default] On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 07:56:33 -0700, Ken Blake
> <kbl...@kb.invalid> wrote:
>
> >The answer is probably "No, Agent can't do what you want," but just in
> >case I'm wrong, let me ask.
> >
> >I would like Agent 6.0 to have a filter that will kill all messages in
> >any thread that has a message in it more than one week old. Is it
> >possible to do this, or something like it, and if so, how can I do it?
>
> Can't do it. Agent cannot filter on date, and also cannot do an "if
> (condition of other message) then do (this) to (this message)" which
> is what you'd need.

Thanks. As I said, I didn't think it could be done.

Ken

> Best you can do is set your "what to purge" appropriately to 7 days,
> but of course that won't stop old threads from recurring.
>
> Cheers - Jaimie
> --
> "It should always be a Sunday but, unfortunately, it hardly ever is."
> - Jeff Noon, Automated Alice

--
Ken Blake

[Ken Blake]

On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 07:45:34 +1300 (but what if the date said: Tue, 21

Feb 2012 07:56:32 -0700), Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 07:56:33 -0700, in message <kvesk71c8u3jkh5eb...@4ax.com>
> Ken Blake wrote:
>
> > The answer is probably "No, Agent can't do what you want," but just in
> > case I'm wrong, let me ask.
> >
> > I would like Agent 6.0 to have a filter that will kill all messages in
> > any thread that has a message in it more than one week old.
>
> This has some interesting side-effects whioch could be exploited.
> Joe Anyone could take out any thread in your news reader, simply by
> posting a follow up message with a week-old date.

That would be fine with me. I don't keep already-read messages, and
I'm not interested in seeing new posts to old threads that I'm through
with.

Yes, Joe Anyone could maliciously use an old date rather than the
current one, but I don't see that as a major threat unless there were
many people besides me doing the same thing.

--
Ken Blake

[h...@h-gee.co.uk]

Really! Malicious messages linked to some terrorist organisation with your address on that
you won't see until they come knocking your door down at 04:00 to drag you off to some
prisons somewhere just because and email you never saw was sent to you....

Oops!

Sir Hugh of Bognor

--
I used to be an Egotistical Megalomaniac - but now I'm just perfect!

Hugh Gundersen
h...@h-gee.co.uk

Get AVG Internet Protection
AVG Reseller <sa...@bognor-bill.com>
discounted software - renewals and upgrades

Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

[Ken Blake]

On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 17:46:56 +0000, Marc Wilson <ma...@cleopatra.co.uk>
wrote:

> In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Ken Blake) wrote in
> <kvesk71c8u3jkh5eb...@4ax.com>::

> Heh. You're not that familiar with thread-drift, I take it? There are
> newsgroups I follow where there are threads that are *years* old.


Yes, I also follow some newsgroups with threads that go on for years
(mostly threads from the Microsoft Answers forums, using the Community
Bridge to get them as newsgroups).

That's the main reason I would like to be able to do this. A question
was asked and its thread died years ago. Then someone pops up with
another answer or comment, probably *long* after the OP has left and
is able to see any answers.

As far as I'm concerned, this just clutters up the forums, and wastes
my time having to browse through them. If I could, I would love to see
Agent filter out any such messages. But apparently I'm out of luck.

--
Ken Blake

[Ralph Fox]

On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 12:07:06 -0700, in message <ithvk7hpd949e5c50...@4ax.com>
Ken Blake wrote:

> Yes, I also follow some newsgroups with threads that go on for years
> (mostly threads from the Microsoft Answers forums, using the Community
> Bridge to get them as newsgroups).
>
> That's the main reason I would like to be able to do this. A question
> was asked and its thread died years ago. Then someone pops up with
> another answer or comment, probably *long* after the OP has left and
> is able to see any answers.
>
> As far as I'm concerned, this just clutters up the forums, and wastes
> my time having to browse through them. If I could, I would love to see
> Agent filter out any such messages. But apparently I'm out of luck.

There is a way in Agent, but it is partly manual.

1. Don't delete old messages. Instead, just delete the bodies in your purge settings.
2. Periodically (this is the manual part), mark messages older than a week as "ignore thread".
2.1 sort by date unthreaded;
2.2 Click and Shift+Click to select the range of messages older than a week;
2.3 Mark as "ignore thread".
3. For normal use, set your view to "Not ignored" and your sort to threaded.


(Unfortunately, for groups with a lot of headers, the "hash collision" problem
can occasionally cause a wrong message to get the "ignore". The chance of any
given message being affected are very low, but the chance of at least one message
in a group being affected are higher. It works like the birthday paradox.)



--
Kind regards
Ralph

[Ken Blake]

On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 08:21:47 +1300, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>
wrote:

Thanks. That's a lot of extra work, and it won't help with the old
threads that have long ago been deleted on my machine.


--
Ken Blake

[sf]

On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 11:48:18 -0700, Ken Blake <kbl...@kb.invalid>

wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 16:12:01 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh
> <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:
>
> > [Default] On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 07:56:33 -0700, Ken Blake
> > <kbl...@kb.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > >The answer is probably "No, Agent can't do what you want," but just in
> > >case I'm wrong, let me ask.
> > >
> > >I would like Agent 6.0 to have a filter that will kill all messages in
> > >any thread that has a message in it more than one week old. Is it
> > >possible to do this, or something like it, and if so, how can I do it?
> >
> > Can't do it. Agent cannot filter on date, and also cannot do an "if
> > (condition of other message) then do (this) to (this message)" which
> > is what you'd need.
>
>
> Thanks. As I said, I didn't think it could be done.

If you don't want any new posts more than a week old, why don't you
sample by date and just download the last 7 days worth?

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

[sf]

On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 12:07:06 -0700, Ken Blake <kbl...@kb.invalid>
wrote:

> That's the main reason I would like to be able to do this. A question
> was asked and its thread died years ago. Then someone pops up with
> another answer or comment, probably *long* after the OP has left and
> is able to see any answers.

Or someone posts with the very same title as something that was posted
long ago, for instance... YOU did it with your generic subject title:
"filter". This thread is now tagging onto a thread that was started
4-28-09 and fits all of your stated "kill" criteria.

[Ralph Fox]

On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 17:43:56 -0800, in message <eot2l751njo78jlpp...@4ax.com>
sf wrote:

> If you don't want any new posts more than a week old, why don't you
> sample by date and just download the last 7 days worth?

He doesn't want new posts of any age in those threads which started
more than a week ago.

It's not the age of the message itself, it's the age of the thread or
the age of the first post in the thread. Your method won't stop new
posts just minutes old in those threads which started a month ago.


--
Kind regards
Ralph

[Ralph Fox]

On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 15:44:30 -0700, in message <4suvk75a8vtqo58od...@4ax.com>
Ken Blake wrote:

> Thanks. That's a lot of extra work, and it won't help with the old
> threads that have long ago been deleted on my machine.

If the threads are deleted on your machine then Agent could not
tell whether the post met your kill criterion, i.e. being in a
thread which has a message in it more than one week old.

Even Agent's "ignore thread" feature requires that one other
message in the thread is not deleted.


--
Kind regards
Ralph

[Ken Blake]

No, you've misunderstood what I'm looking for. What I don't want is
any messages from a thread that began back in the past.

I'm active in several of the Microsoft Answers forums, using the
Community Bridge to get them in Agent. Unfortunately, because of the
way Microsoft has built their forums, it's very common for someone to
reply today to a question that was asked a year ago. I have no
interest in seeing that reply, and as far as I'm concerned, it just
clutters up the newsgroup and makes it more time-consuming for me to
participate.


--
Ken Blake

[sf]

On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 12:23:18 -0700, Ken Blake <kbl...@kb.invalid>
wrote:

> No, you've misunderstood what I'm looking for. What I don't want is
> any messages from a thread that began back in the past.

What's keeping you from killing the thread?

[Ken Blake]

On Fri, 09 Mar 2012 20:58:11 -0800, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 12:23:18 -0700, Ken Blake <kbl...@kb.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > No, you've misunderstood what I'm looking for. What I don't want is
> > any messages from a thread that began back in the past.
>
> What's keeping you from killing the thread?

Nothing. But either you've misunderstood what I want to do, or--more
likely--I've explained it poorly.

So I'll try again (even though I think it's made clear to me that
there's no way to do this). There are many threads that are a couple
of years old and died long ago. Nobody has replied in two years, and
perhaps I've never even seen the thread. Then today someone replies
and the thread starts up again. I would like not to see that reply nor
any of the replies to that reply. Yes, I can ignore it when I see the
reply(s) but I don't want to see it in the first place.

If this happened seldom, I wouldn't mind seeing it occasionally and
ignoring what I see. But in almost all the Microsoft Answers Forums
that I get as newsgroups using the Community Bridge, it happens very
frequently. Having all those extra threads slows me down in those
newsgroups considerably.

--
Ken Blake

[Cindy Ross]

>> That's the main reason I would like to be able to do this. A question
>> was asked and its thread died years ago. Then someone pops up with
>> another answer or comment, probably *long* after the OP has left and
>> is able to see any answers.
>
>Or someone posts with the very same title as something that was posted
>long ago, for instance... YOU did it with your generic subject title:
>"filter". This thread is now tagging onto a thread that was started
>4-28-09 and fits all of your stated "kill" criteria.

(...only if "Enable threading by subject" is enabled in the settings...)

[Ralph Fox]

True.

Some newsgroups connected to mailing lists need this
turned on in order to keep threads together [鉛.
Unfortunately Agent won't let you turn this setting
on for some groups and not others.


Footnotes

[鉛 This happens when people reply on the list using a
mail client which does not generate a "References"
header.
(a) Some mail clients generate only an "In-Reply-To"
header, which is fine for threading email but
does not thread newsgroups because "In-Reply-To"
is not an overview header (the news server does
not include it when you get headers).
(b) Some mail clients like Outlook generate neither
an "In-Reply-To" nor a "References".


--
Kind regards
Ralph

[Nick Spalding]

Ralph Fox wrote, in <rq1rl7dnjvuplk8pv...@4ax.com>
on Mon, 12 Mar 2012 18:27:57 +1300:

>On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:37:58 -0400, in message <1boql7pgvppsir0vh...@4ax.com>
>Cindy Ross wrote:
>
>> >> That's the main reason I would like to be able to do this. A question
>> >> was asked and its thread died years ago. Then someone pops up with
>> >> another answer or comment, probably *long* after the OP has left and
>> >> is able to see any answers.
>> >
>> >Or someone posts with the very same title as something that was posted
>> >long ago, for instance... YOU did it with your generic subject title:
>> >"filter". This thread is now tagging onto a thread that was started
>> >4-28-09 and fits all of your stated "kill" criteria.
>>
>> (...only if "Enable threading by subject" is enabled in the settings...)
>
>
>True.
>
>Some newsgroups connected to mailing lists need this
>turned on in order to keep threads together [鉛.
>Unfortunately Agent won't let you turn this setting
>on for some groups and not others.

I have asked several time for these threading controls to be moved
into the Folder Properties hierarchy, most recently in August 2009
when we were still on V5.
--
Nick Spalding
Agent 6.0/32.1186, IE8, Vista Home Premium SP2, 32 bit,
Intel Viiv dual core E6300 (1.86Ghz, 1066MHz FSB), 2GB RAM,
320GB NTFS HD, Video Nvidia GeForce 7900GS LCD 1024x768x75Hz

[The Cook]

On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:37:58 -0400, Cindy Ross <ro...@us.ibm.com>
wrote:

And if you keep all of the messages you have received. I only keep 15
days of messages. I mark the ones I am not interested in "ignored"
and my main view is set to "not ignored." If something comes up and I
want to see some of the other messages, I can download them. Anything
I am really interested in I move to another folder which I do not
purge except manually.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

[sf]

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 08:17:50 -0700, Ken Blake <kbl...@kb.invalid>
wrote:

> So I'll try again (even though I think it's made clear to me that
> there's no way to do this). There are many threads that are a couple
> of years old and died long ago. Nobody has replied in two years, and
> perhaps I've never even seen the thread. Then today someone replies
> and the thread starts up again. I would like not to see that reply nor
> any of the replies to that reply. Yes, I can ignore it when I see the
> reply(s) but I don't want to see it in the first place.
>
> If this happened seldom, I wouldn't mind seeing it occasionally and
> ignoring what I see. But in almost all the Microsoft Answers Forums
> that I get as newsgroups using the Community Bridge, it happens very
> frequently. Having all those extra threads slows me down in those
> newsgroups considerably.

OIC. To bad they don't/can't close the topics to new replies. I see
that done a lot in web based forums.

[dgra...@pc-fx.fsnet.co.uk]

On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 21:43:17 -0700, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:

>OIC. To bad they don't/can't close the topics to new replies. I see
>that done a lot in web based forums.

That happens in web-based forums where there is someone managing the
forum. It's common for forum topics to close after a period of
inactivity.

On the other hand, google news is simply a replication of NNTP with a
google interface. And NNTP is designed to to run with no control at
all, if you see what I mean. SOme groups publish FAQs and approve
messages, but most don't.

Newsreaders like Agent simply reflect what's out there. There are
many community bulletin boards only available via web interfaces, and
these are generally inaccessible to Agent anyway (unless like
Microsoft's you have glue like Community bridge)

Microsoft stopped using NNTP groups because they wanted to establish
better ownership over postings. Whether you call that quality control
or censorship depends on who you are.

Derek