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Alternatives to Forte Agent?
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char...@email.com
Dec 13, 2011, 2:42:10 PM12/13/11
to
Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed. Along with a good
software for the above, how well do these import newsgroups folders and email folders from
Agent. I have a lot of stored email information in various folders that, if I switch, I
would want to import the folder for use in the new software.
Thanks for any insights.
charliec
alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed. Along with a good
software for the above, how well do these import newsgroups folders and email folders from
Agent. I have a lot of stored email information in various folders that, if I switch, I
would want to import the folder for use in the new software.
Thanks for any insights.
charliec
Jaimie Vandenbergh
Dec 13, 2011, 2:52:32 PM12/13/11
to
[Default] On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:42:10 -0800, char...@email.com
wrote:
>Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
>alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.
I can't see much need to switch newsreaders, since the NNTP protocol
is almost certainly moribund now and won't get any significant
changes.
Email programs are rather a matter of choice. I moved to Apple Mail
when I split ways with Windows, but there are loads out there.
> Along with a good
>software for the above, how well do these import newsgroups folders and email folders from
>Agent. I have a lot of stored email information in various folders that, if I switch, I
>would want to import the folder for use in the new software.
Agent can export its folders (one at a time) to standard Unix
message/mailbox type files, so most mail programs should be able to
slurp them in. File/Save Messages As.
Cheers - Jaimie
--
207 BC: Chrysippus, Greek stoic philosopher, is believed to have died of
laughter after watching his drunken donkey attempt to eat figs.
wrote:
>Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
>alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.
is almost certainly moribund now and won't get any significant
changes.
Email programs are rather a matter of choice. I moved to Apple Mail
when I split ways with Windows, but there are loads out there.
> Along with a good
>software for the above, how well do these import newsgroups folders and email folders from
>Agent. I have a lot of stored email information in various folders that, if I switch, I
>would want to import the folder for use in the new software.
message/mailbox type files, so most mail programs should be able to
slurp them in. File/Save Messages As.
Cheers - Jaimie
--
207 BC: Chrysippus, Greek stoic philosopher, is believed to have died of
laughter after watching his drunken donkey attempt to eat figs.
(PeteCresswell)
Dec 13, 2011, 7:32:31 PM12/13/11
to
Per char...@email.com:
Dunno from importing, but when I fooled around with Thunderbird
after putting it on the wife's laptop, it seemed to do everything
I wanted.
--
PeteCresswell
after putting it on the wife's laptop, it seemed to do everything
I wanted.
--
PeteCresswell
Message has been deleted
Jeffrey Kaplan
Dec 13, 2011, 10:03:13 PM12/13/11
to
Previously on alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, char...@email.com
said:
IMO, Agent is still tops for usenet, particularly discussion groups.
Unless you need the two systems integrated, there's no need to move
away from Agent for usenet if you're still happy with it. For email,
take a look at Thunderbird.
I settled on Thunderbird because it was the closest I could find to the
way Agent works when I could no longer operate without IMAP.
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection
Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #86.
I will make sure that my doomsday device is up to code and properly
grounded.
said:
Unless you need the two systems integrated, there's no need to move
away from Agent for usenet if you're still happy with it. For email,
take a look at Thunderbird.
I settled on Thunderbird because it was the closest I could find to the
way Agent works when I could no longer operate without IMAP.
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection
Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #86.
I will make sure that my doomsday device is up to code and properly
grounded.
Nicetameetya
Dec 13, 2011, 10:24:04 PM12/13/11
to
[Default] On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 03:03:13 +0000, Jeffrey Kaplan
<nom...@gordol.org> declared to all and sundry:
>Previously on alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, char...@email.com
>said:
>
>> Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
>> alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed. Along with a good
>> software for the above, how well do these import newsgroups folders and email folders from
>> Agent. I have a lot of stored email information in various folders that, if I switch, I
>> would want to import the folder for use in the new software.
>
>IMO, Agent is still tops for usenet, particularly discussion groups.
>Unless you need the two systems integrated, there's no need to move
>away from Agent for usenet if you're still happy with it. For email,
>take a look at Thunderbird.
>
>I settled on Thunderbird because it was the closest I could find to the
>way Agent works when I could no longer operate without IMAP.
Randy
Dec 13, 2011, 11:26:40 PM12/13/11
to
On 12/13/2011 9:03 PM, Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:
> I settled on Thunderbird because it was the closest I could find to the
> way Agent works when I could no longer operate without IMAP.
Me too. If someone would implement
> I settled on Thunderbird because it was the closest I could find to the
> way Agent works when I could no longer operate without IMAP.
cross-post management, and make it so quotes
wrap properly all the time, it would be
almost perfect for me.
--
Forte Agent: 6.0/32.1186; Windows: 5.1
(Build 2600.xpsp_sp3_qfe.101209-1646 : Service
Pack 3)
char...@email.com
Dec 14, 2011, 12:17:47 AM12/14/11
to
>On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 03:03:13 +0000, Jeffrey Kaplan <nom...@gordol.org> wrote:
>Previously on alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, char...@email.com
>said:
>
>> Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
>> alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed. Along with a good
>> software for the above, how well do these import newsgroups folders and email folders from
>> Agent. I have a lot of stored email information in various folders that, if I switch, I
>> would want to import the folder for use in the new software.
>
>IMO, Agent is still tops for usenet, particularly discussion groups.
>Unless you need the two systems integrated, there's no need to move
>away from Agent for usenet if you're still happy with it. For email,
>take a look at Thunderbird.
>
>I settled on Thunderbird because it was the closest I could find to the
>way Agent works when I could no longer operate without IMAP.
Thanks all for the comments/input.
>Previously on alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, char...@email.com
>said:
>
>> Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
>> alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed. Along with a good
>> software for the above, how well do these import newsgroups folders and email folders from
>> Agent. I have a lot of stored email information in various folders that, if I switch, I
>> would want to import the folder for use in the new software.
>
>IMO, Agent is still tops for usenet, particularly discussion groups.
>Unless you need the two systems integrated, there's no need to move
>away from Agent for usenet if you're still happy with it. For email,
>take a look at Thunderbird.
>
>I settled on Thunderbird because it was the closest I could find to the
>way Agent works when I could no longer operate without IMAP.
charliec
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Ralph Fox
Dec 14, 2011, 12:18:25 PM12/14/11
to
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:45:24 +0100, in message <tekhe7lv0vdgik1g7...@4ax.com>
Otto Jørgensen wrote:
> The large problem (?) is to covert the mail from Forte to an other
> program.
> But have I to do so, i will not die to have Forte as a historical
> program on my PC.
It is not difficult to move emails back and forth between Agent and Thunderbird.
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Otto Jørgensen wrote:
> The large problem (?) is to covert the mail from Forte to an other
> program.
> But have I to do so, i will not die to have Forte as a historical
> program on my PC.
It is not difficult to move emails back and forth between Agent and Thunderbird.
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Message has been deleted
Jeffrey Kaplan
Dec 14, 2011, 6:51:49 PM12/14/11
to
Previously on alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, Otto Jørgensen
said:
> The large problem (?) is to covert the mail from Forte to an other
> program.
> But have I to do so, i will not die to have Forte as a historical
> program on my PC.
> As times goes all I have will bee readable in other programs that can
> do what Forte Agent can't :(
You can export Agent's message store to UNIX standard mbox files by
selecting the messages in a folder, then File \ Save Messages As... and
selecting the appropriate options. How to get them into your
replacement of choice is up to that software.
Thunderbird is easy. IIRC all that's needed is to drop the file
created by Agent, without a file extension, into TBird's data folder
and then start TBird. If you're using IMAP for your email, once you
have the messages in TBird, you can copy them into whatever mail folder
you want on the IMAP server and they'll upload.
"Here you will see the heart and soul of Babylon 5...also its spleen,
its kidneys, a veritable parade of internal organs." (Amb. Mollari,
B5 "The Quality of Mercy")
said:
> The large problem (?) is to covert the mail from Forte to an other
> program.
> But have I to do so, i will not die to have Forte as a historical
> program on my PC.
> do what Forte Agent can't :(
You can export Agent's message store to UNIX standard mbox files by
selecting the messages in a folder, then File \ Save Messages As... and
selecting the appropriate options. How to get them into your
replacement of choice is up to that software.
Thunderbird is easy. IIRC all that's needed is to drop the file
created by Agent, without a file extension, into TBird's data folder
and then start TBird. If you're using IMAP for your email, once you
have the messages in TBird, you can copy them into whatever mail folder
you want on the IMAP server and they'll upload.
"Here you will see the heart and soul of Babylon 5...also its spleen,
its kidneys, a veritable parade of internal organs." (Amb. Mollari,
B5 "The Quality of Mercy")
Wayne Garmil
Dec 22, 2011, 12:41:30 PM12/22/11
to
>Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
>alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.
I hope that day never comes. But I do know that software projects do
>alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.
end eventually. Currently, I have not found a replacement for Agent
that I like. I have used Agent for news since the late 90's, and for
email since support for email was added (the earliest email I have
saved in an Agent email folder is from either 2001 or 2002).
I have tried Pan, which lots of people told me is just like Agent.
That is not true in my opinion, navigation in the newsgroups and
filtering (scoring) are very different. Yet I do know a lot of
people swear by Pan, so call this a different of user opinion.
I don't know of any other newsreader that has Agent's multi-server
support where more than one newsserver can feed into the same
newsgroup folder, all the others I have seen maintain separate folders
for each server. Pan is supposed to support this, but from I seen it
only populates the group from the first server it finds that contains
the group (not from every server configured like Agent can do).
Caveat: this could be my error in how I have Pan configured.
Currently, Agent fits my needs, and I plan to use it until it stops
working. I even use it on Linux using Wine to run the program.
Wayne
--
Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem.
Message has been deleted
Randy
Dec 23, 2011, 6:02:36 AM12/23/11
to
On 12/22/2011 11:41 AM, Wayne Garmil wrote:
this group organize and develop Thunderbird's
newsreader.
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:42:10 -0800,char...@email.com wrote:
>
>> >Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
>> >alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.
> I hope that day never comes.
I would like to see a group of coders from
>
>> >Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
>> >alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.
> I hope that day never comes.
this group organize and develop Thunderbird's
newsreader.
Cindy Ross
Dec 23, 2011, 7:21:00 AM12/23/11
to
>>> >Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
>>> >alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.
>
>> I hope that day never comes.
>
>
>I would like to see a group of coders from
>this group organize and develop Thunderbird's
>newsreader.
I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
>>> >alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.
>
>> I hope that day never comes.
>
>
>I would like to see a group of coders from
>this group organize and develop Thunderbird's
>newsreader.
C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)
Isis
Dec 23, 2011, 7:49:24 AM12/23/11
to
On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 07:21:00 -0500, Cindy Ross <ro...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
<snip>
(I'd do it myself if I could compile the .cpp's.)
Isis
"Often imitated, but never duplicated" <http://tiny.cc/Isis55423/
<snip>
>
>I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
>C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)
While you're waiting, why not fix Powerpost? It's driving me crazy.
>I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
>C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)
(I'd do it myself if I could compile the .cpp's.)
Isis
"Often imitated, but never duplicated" <http://tiny.cc/Isis55423/
Cindy Ross
Dec 23, 2011, 8:09:58 AM12/23/11
to
>>I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
>>C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)
>
>While you're waiting, why not fix Powerpost? It's driving me crazy.
Oh dear. Perhaps I made a mistake in posting that. I need to make very
>>C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)
>
>While you're waiting, why not fix Powerpost? It's driving me crazy.
clear right away that I am not soliciting suggestions on other projects
that I could work on.
I'm not looking to fill free time. I really don't have a lot of free
time. But I would gladly carve out a bit of my limited free time to
work on an open source Forte Agent if there was such a thing, simply
because I am specifically interested in enhancements to Forte Agent.
>(I'd do it myself if I could compile the .cpp's.)
provides a free "Express" edition of their Visual Studio compiler.)
Isis
Dec 23, 2011, 8:45:19 AM12/23/11
to
I've tried the freebies, but they can't handle it. I think whenever MS adds
'Express' to something, e.g., Outlook, it's just to draw you in to purchase
something.
Maybe I'll try the VS10 free trial.
Thanks, anyway.
Stephen Wolstenholme
Dec 23, 2011, 12:23:56 PM12/23/11
to
On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 07:21:00 -0500, Cindy Ross <ro...@us.ibm.com>
wrote:
Why would Forte make Agent open source as it probably still makes
money?
Steve
--
Neural network software applications, help and support.
Neural Network Software. www.npsl1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. www.justnn.com
wrote:
money?
Steve
--
Neural network software applications, help and support.
Neural Network Software. www.npsl1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. www.justnn.com
h...@h-gee.co.uk
Dec 23, 2011, 12:40:16 PM12/23/11
to
On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 06:49:24 -0600, Isis <isis...@hotpop.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 07:21:00 -0500, Cindy Ross <ro...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >
> >I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
> >C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)
>
> While you're waiting, why not fix Powerpost? It's driving me crazy.
How is PP broken?
> On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 07:21:00 -0500, Cindy Ross <ro...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >
> >I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
> >C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)
>
> While you're waiting, why not fix Powerpost? It's driving me crazy.
What version are you using?
I have no trouble at all using the GB version - if you need it I'll post it.
Steve
>
> (I'd do it myself if I could compile the .cpp's.)
>
> Isis
>
> "Often imitated, but never duplicated" <http://tiny.cc/Isis55423/
--
I used to be an Egotistical Megalomaniac - but now I'm just perfect!
Hugh Gundersen
h...@h-gee.co.uk
Get AVG Internet Protection
AVG Reseller <sa...@bognor-bill.com>
discounted software - renewals and upgrades
Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK
Message has been deleted
Jack
Dec 23, 2011, 3:56:59 PM12/23/11
to
On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 18:19:11 +0000, Marc Wilson <ma...@cleopatra.co.uk> wrote:
>> Why would Forte make Agent open source as it probably still makes
>> money?
>
> open-source != free
>> Why would Forte make Agent open source as it probably still makes
>> money?
>
open source != free as in beer
open source == free as in speech
When Agent becomes open source and free as in speech, I will be able to
undercut Forte's prices and sell Agent at £0.99 or less. Our overheads
are low because we do no development ourselves (apart from replacing
registration key verifiers).
--
Jack
Haggerston Cheap Genuine Software
Fully functional genuine legal software at cheaper than the manufacturer's prices.
E&OE
Cindy Ross
Dec 23, 2011, 4:47:56 PM12/23/11
to
>Why would Forte make Agent open source as it probably still makes
>money?
I cannot argue with that. And there may be some barriers to making it
>money?
open source (for example if they used code developed by someone else in
a partnership they may not have rights to make it open source even if
they wanted to). It's a wish, cannot say if it's a *realistic* wish.
Isis
Dec 23, 2011, 5:36:48 PM12/23/11
to
On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 17:40:16 +0000, h...@h-gee.co.uk wrote:
>On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 06:49:24 -0600, Isis <isis...@hotpop.com> wrote:
>
<snip>
>On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 06:49:24 -0600, Isis <isis...@hotpop.com> wrote:
>
>> While you're waiting, why not fix Powerpost? It's driving me crazy.
>
>How is PP broken?
>
>What version are you using?
>
>I have no trouble at all using the GB version - if you need it I'll post it.
>
>Steve
GB-12 is out-of-date to boot.
You can find the latest version here: <http://powerpost.camelsystem.nl/e-index.php
Here is one of the problems with all of them:
In ProgramSettings.cpp note the casual 12345 in MaxLines_UPPER_BOUND.
That has been there forever, even though the Max Lines setting itself has been
raised to 32000. (That's in another source file, so they always miss this.)
===============================================================================
BOOL CProgramSettings::LoadFromRegistry()
{
CWinApp* pApp = AfxGetApp();
CString S;
char szKey[32];
int k, nSize;
int nDefault_BWCap = 0;
#define MaxLines_UPPER_BOUND 12345
int nDefault_MaxLines = 3000;
===============================================================================
There are other things I would change, but this is the most irritating.
Message has been deleted
Stephen Wolstenholme
Dec 24, 2011, 12:06:29 PM12/24/11
to
>In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Stephen Wolstenholme) wrote
>in <t6e9f7hdqjfe56ruf...@4ax.com>::
Open-source usually becomes free. In my experience the release of
source code for others to develop my JUSTNN resulted in a free
application that competed so I had to make it all free.
The solution was to produce another better application and no open
source code.
>in <t6e9f7hdqjfe56ruf...@4ax.com>::
>
>>On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 07:21:00 -0500, Cindy Ross <ro...@us.ibm.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>>>> >Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
>>>>>> >alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.
>>>>
>>>>> I hope that day never comes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I would like to see a group of coders from
>>>>this group organize and develop Thunderbird's
>>>>newsreader.
>>>
>>>I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
>>>C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)
>>
>>Why would Forte make Agent open source as it probably still makes
>>money?
>
>open-source != free
>>On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 07:21:00 -0500, Cindy Ross <ro...@us.ibm.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>>>> >Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
>>>>>> >alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.
>>>>
>>>>> I hope that day never comes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I would like to see a group of coders from
>>>>this group organize and develop Thunderbird's
>>>>newsreader.
>>>
>>>I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
>>>C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)
>>
>>Why would Forte make Agent open source as it probably still makes
>>money?
>
Open-source usually becomes free. In my experience the release of
source code for others to develop my JUSTNN resulted in a free
application that competed so I had to make it all free.
The solution was to produce another better application and no open
source code.
Message has been deleted
Ralph Fox
Dec 25, 2011, 4:48:42 PM12/25/11
to
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 18:58:11 +0100, in message <6rohe7deb84tuq2e5...@4ax.com>
Otto J�rgensen wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 06:18:25 +1300, in
> alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>
> Maight be so, but as fat as far as I can see there is no discribtion
> on how doeing this to most program as Outlooc, Live. Gmail etc
A. "Outlooc, Live"
Microsoft (Outlook, WLM) are not like most programs. Many other
email programs (except Microsoft) can import MBOX format mail files
(which Agent calls a "Unix Message File").
To get an email folder from Agent into many email programs (except Microsoft)
1. Export the email folder from Agent as a "Unix Message File".
2. Import the "Unix Message File" (MBOX file) into the other email program
For step-by-step instructions with Thunderbird, see below.
B. "Gmail"
Gmail is not an email program on your computer. Gmail is a server.
To get your email from Agent into Gmail
1. First get your email into an email program like Thunderbird which
supports IMAP.
2. Then move the imported email into a Gmail IMAP folder.
To get an email folder from Agent into Thunderbird, here are step-by-step
instructions. (This expands on what Jeffrey Kaplan has already written.)
1. In Agent, select an email folder to export.
2. Select all the messages in the folder. This can be done as follows
2.1 Click on a single message in the message list pane
2.2 Press Ctrl+A
3. Use Agent's menu command
File >> Save Messages As"
with the following options
File Name: [no file extension, and named differently to
any of your existing Thunderbird email folders]
[ ] Append to existing file -- NOT CHECKED
[x] Save raw unformatted message -- CHECKED
File format
(�) Unix message file
Header fields to include
(�) All fields
4. In Thunderbird, go to
"Tools >> Account Settings >> Local Folders"
and make a note of the hard drive folder in the setting "Local directory".
5. Copy the saved file from #3 into the hard drive folder in #4.
6. When you restart Thunderbird, Thunderbird will import a folder containing
your emails from Agent.
At this stage I recommend moving all the imported emails into another
Thunderbird folder. This allows Thunderbird to add its own internal
headers for managing message status (e.g. read/unread) and tags (e.g.
important/personal/later). Without this, status and tags may still
appear to work, but may be lost if the folder's index is rebuilt.
7. To get your emails into Gmail, move them into a Gmail IMAP folder
(while you are online).
Note: import into "Local Folders" first. Don't try importing directly
from file into the IMAP account.
To get your Agent email into WLM, here are two ways...
I. I would suggest getting your Agent email into Gmail by following the
instructions above, then downloading your Agent email from Gmail into
WLM.
II. There is another way
� Save each individual email from Agent as a separate .eml file
(see instructions below).
This can be tedious when there are a lot of individual email messages.
� Then drag the .eml file from Windows Explorer and drop it into WLM.
To save an individual email from Agent as a .eml file
1. In Agent, select a single email. Do not select multiple emails.
2. Use Agent's menu command
File >> Save Messages As"
with the following options
File Name: should have a .eml extension
[ ] Append to existing file -- NOT CHECKED
[x] Save raw unformatted message -- CHECKED
File format
(�) No separator between messages <-- NOT THE SAME AS FOR UNIX MESSAGE FILES
Header fields to include
(�) All fields
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Otto J�rgensen wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 06:18:25 +1300, in
> alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>
> on how doeing this to most program as Outlooc, Live. Gmail etc
A. "Outlooc, Live"
Microsoft (Outlook, WLM) are not like most programs. Many other
email programs (except Microsoft) can import MBOX format mail files
(which Agent calls a "Unix Message File").
To get an email folder from Agent into many email programs (except Microsoft)
1. Export the email folder from Agent as a "Unix Message File".
2. Import the "Unix Message File" (MBOX file) into the other email program
For step-by-step instructions with Thunderbird, see below.
B. "Gmail"
Gmail is not an email program on your computer. Gmail is a server.
To get your email from Agent into Gmail
1. First get your email into an email program like Thunderbird which
supports IMAP.
2. Then move the imported email into a Gmail IMAP folder.
To get an email folder from Agent into Thunderbird, here are step-by-step
instructions. (This expands on what Jeffrey Kaplan has already written.)
1. In Agent, select an email folder to export.
2. Select all the messages in the folder. This can be done as follows
2.1 Click on a single message in the message list pane
2.2 Press Ctrl+A
3. Use Agent's menu command
File >> Save Messages As"
with the following options
File Name: [no file extension, and named differently to
any of your existing Thunderbird email folders]
[ ] Append to existing file -- NOT CHECKED
[x] Save raw unformatted message -- CHECKED
File format
(�) Unix message file
Header fields to include
(�) All fields
4. In Thunderbird, go to
"Tools >> Account Settings >> Local Folders"
and make a note of the hard drive folder in the setting "Local directory".
5. Copy the saved file from #3 into the hard drive folder in #4.
6. When you restart Thunderbird, Thunderbird will import a folder containing
your emails from Agent.
At this stage I recommend moving all the imported emails into another
Thunderbird folder. This allows Thunderbird to add its own internal
headers for managing message status (e.g. read/unread) and tags (e.g.
important/personal/later). Without this, status and tags may still
appear to work, but may be lost if the folder's index is rebuilt.
7. To get your emails into Gmail, move them into a Gmail IMAP folder
(while you are online).
Note: import into "Local Folders" first. Don't try importing directly
from file into the IMAP account.
To get your Agent email into WLM, here are two ways...
I. I would suggest getting your Agent email into Gmail by following the
instructions above, then downloading your Agent email from Gmail into
WLM.
II. There is another way
� Save each individual email from Agent as a separate .eml file
(see instructions below).
This can be tedious when there are a lot of individual email messages.
� Then drag the .eml file from Windows Explorer and drop it into WLM.
To save an individual email from Agent as a .eml file
1. In Agent, select a single email. Do not select multiple emails.
2. Use Agent's menu command
File >> Save Messages As"
with the following options
File Name: should have a .eml extension
[ ] Append to existing file -- NOT CHECKED
[x] Save raw unformatted message -- CHECKED
File format
(�) No separator between messages <-- NOT THE SAME AS FOR UNIX MESSAGE FILES
Header fields to include
(�) All fields
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Mike Trainor
Dec 25, 2011, 7:13:47 PM12/25/11
to
On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 18:26:42 -0800, Melissa
<willkayakforf...@gmx.com> wrote:
>Everyone has their preferences regarding just how they like their
>email and/or news clients to work. There are still people who swear
>by "Xnews", yet I've always hated Xnews. The same is true for many
>other news readers - for Windows, Mac, and Linux (I've tried most of
>them over the years). There's simply no accounting for tastes (mine
>included! ;)).
As I almost exclusively used a Sun till about 4 years ago, I used to
swear by 'trn'. (Never got slrn to work right!). But, among almost
all PC applications, the one I find most satisfactory is Agent. In
fact, it just seems to be 'trn' with a real GUI as far as news is
concerned. So, for news, Agent, as long as it compiles and runs,
is okay.
I do not like to mix clients. So, I have no need for mail capabilities
in a newreader.
mt
<willkayakforf...@gmx.com> wrote:
>Everyone has their preferences regarding just how they like their
>email and/or news clients to work. There are still people who swear
>by "Xnews", yet I've always hated Xnews. The same is true for many
>other news readers - for Windows, Mac, and Linux (I've tried most of
>them over the years). There's simply no accounting for tastes (mine
>included! ;)).
As I almost exclusively used a Sun till about 4 years ago, I used to
swear by 'trn'. (Never got slrn to work right!). But, among almost
all PC applications, the one I find most satisfactory is Agent. In
fact, it just seems to be 'trn' with a real GUI as far as news is
concerned. So, for news, Agent, as long as it compiles and runs,
is okay.
I do not like to mix clients. So, I have no need for mail capabilities
in a newreader.
mt
Ralph Fox
Dec 25, 2011, 7:22:01 PM12/25/11
to
On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 05:02:36 -0600, in message <BZCdnRHeGbhLwmnT...@giganews.com>
Randy wrote:
> I would like to see a group of coders from
> this group organize and develop Thunderbird's
> newsreader.
If you yourself want to contribute to Thunderbird's newsreader
Randy wrote:
> I would like to see a group of coders from
> this group organize and develop Thunderbird's
> newsreader.
but you are not a coder, then you can always assist on
Thunderbird's help system and knowledgebase documentation.
http://support.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/kb/superheroes-wanted
-----====oooOooo====-----
All the best for the New Year.
༄༅།།ལོ་གསར་ལ་བཀྲ་ཤིས་བདེ་ལེགས་ཞུ།
С Новым Годом
新年おめでとうございます
გილოცავთ ახალ წელს
Ngā mihi o te tau hou
--
Ralph
Randy
Dec 26, 2011, 4:29:45 AM12/26/11
to
On 12/25/2011 6:22 PM, Ralph Fox wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 05:02:36 -0600, in message<BZCdnRHeGbhLwmnT...@giganews.com>
> Randy wrote:
>
>> > I would like to see a group of coders from
>> > this group organize and develop Thunderbird's
>> > newsreader.
> If you yourself want to contribute to Thunderbird's newsreader
> but you are not a coder, then you can always assist on
> Thunderbird's help system and knowledgebase documentation.
>
> http://support.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/kb/superheroes-wanted
Cool. Thanks.
> On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 05:02:36 -0600, in message<BZCdnRHeGbhLwmnT...@giganews.com>
> Randy wrote:
>
>> > I would like to see a group of coders from
>> > this group organize and develop Thunderbird's
>> > newsreader.
> If you yourself want to contribute to Thunderbird's newsreader
> but you are not a coder, then you can always assist on
> Thunderbird's help system and knowledgebase documentation.
>
> http://support.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/kb/superheroes-wanted
Randy
Dec 26, 2011, 11:14:15 AM12/26/11
to
Sun, 25 Dec 2011 19:13:47 -0500, in article
<freff7pomgksaf98e...@4ax.com>,
reader?
<freff7pomgksaf98e...@4ax.com>,
"Mike Trainor <mtra...@hotmail.com>" wrote:
>I do not like to mix clients. So, I have no need for mail capabilities
>in a newreader.
Do you need a newsreader that _excludes_ a mail
>I do not like to mix clients. So, I have no need for mail capabilities
>in a newreader.
reader?
Randy
Dec 26, 2011, 6:01:19 PM12/26/11
to
Thu, 22 Dec 2011 12:41:30 -0500, in article
<jcvq43$4og$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
First, I had to install the GTK Runtime Library,
then a Windows installer. Then I had to copy an
updated zlib1.dll file from the GTK runtime
library to the Pan directory, because the one in
the Pan library was outdated.
After all that, if Pan allows you to specify the
line length in your composition, I haven't been
able to find it.
Another problem I encountered is that it double
posts my signature every time, no matter how I set
up the profile and signature options. Not sure
what the deal is with that.
Pan also doesn't seem to allow you to edit your
posting identity from the composition window on
the fly. You have to select a pre-made identity
from a drop down menu.
All in all, I don't see any major benefit to using
Pan for posting to text newsgroups, and almost
immediately encountered problems that make me
never want to use it again.
<jcvq43$4og$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
"Wayne Garmil <wga...@theworld.com>" wrote:
>I don't know of any other newsreader that has Agent's multi-server
>support where more than one newsserver can feed into the same
>newsgroup folder, all the others I have seen maintain separate folders
>for each server. Pan is supposed to support this, but from I seen it
>only populates the group from the first server it finds that contains
>the group (not from every server configured like Agent can do).
>Caveat: this could be my error in how I have Pan configured.
I just tried Pan.
>I don't know of any other newsreader that has Agent's multi-server
>support where more than one newsserver can feed into the same
>newsgroup folder, all the others I have seen maintain separate folders
>for each server. Pan is supposed to support this, but from I seen it
>only populates the group from the first server it finds that contains
>the group (not from every server configured like Agent can do).
>Caveat: this could be my error in how I have Pan configured.
First, I had to install the GTK Runtime Library,
then a Windows installer. Then I had to copy an
updated zlib1.dll file from the GTK runtime
library to the Pan directory, because the one in
the Pan library was outdated.
After all that, if Pan allows you to specify the
line length in your composition, I haven't been
able to find it.
Another problem I encountered is that it double
posts my signature every time, no matter how I set
up the profile and signature options. Not sure
what the deal is with that.
Pan also doesn't seem to allow you to edit your
posting identity from the composition window on
the fly. You have to select a pre-made identity
from a drop down menu.
All in all, I don't see any major benefit to using
Pan for posting to text newsgroups, and almost
immediately encountered problems that make me
never want to use it again.
Cindy Ross
Dec 27, 2011, 12:04:11 PM12/27/11
to
>I've tried the freebies, but they can't handle it. I think whenever MS adds
>'Express' to something, e.g., Outlook, it's just to draw you in to purchase
>something.
Actually, I have been pretty impressed with the Express versions of MS's
>'Express' to something, e.g., Outlook, it's just to draw you in to purchase
>something.
Visual Studio C++. (Although I have licenses to MSDN and Visual Studio,
I use Express a lot as I support a product that allows users to develop
their own extensions with Visual Studio or just Visual Studio Express.)
The Express version has the compiler as expected, and also the excellent
debugger. Of course they don't provide everything that the full product
provides, but I wouldn't expect them to. And yes, it is unfortunate
that it doesn't do what you need.
But it is definitely more than a worthless teaser, and for some folks
may be all they ever need. IMHO, it's excellent, for a "freebie".
Isis
Dec 27, 2011, 2:51:39 PM12/27/11
to
may satisfy. Too many were satisfied with Outlook Express, which didn't result in
many sales for Outlook. Result? No more OE.
Cindy Ross
Dec 27, 2011, 5:50:00 PM12/27/11
to
>>Why would Forte make Agent open source as it probably still makes
>>money?
>>Steve
>Agreed, I think there are a fair amount of we APN subscribers,
>>money?
>>Steve
>generating cash for Forte.
I tend to think of APN and Agent as separate things, that happen to
belong to the same company and benefit from mutual cross-promotion.
How about an open source license that says that Agent must always have a
copyright license pointing to Forte so they still get that promotion???
But of course that says nothing about the revenue they receive from
Agent licenses...
It's just a wish; this is the right season for wishes, right? :-)
The bottom line is that of course I cannot say if it would ever
realistically happen, probably not.
(By the way, one reason that I chimed in with my wish was that I have
heard it said in other threads in the past that there isn't really any
need for an open source Agent, as there would be no developers to create
enhancements for it, if one assumes that that any potential developers
are likely already tied up working on existing open source newsreaders.
But I don't think that's necessarily the case.)
drek
Dec 27, 2011, 6:54:36 PM12/27/11
to
On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 13:51:39 -0600, Isis <isis...@hotpop.com> wrote:
<058kf71c2apn12vjs...@4ax.com>:
>On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 12:04:11 -0500, Cindy Ross <ro...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
>>>I've tried the freebies, but they can't handle it. I think whenever MS adds
>>>'Express' to something, e.g., Outlook, it's just to draw you in to purchase
>>>something.
>>
>>Actually, I have been pretty impressed with the Express versions of MS's
>>Visual Studio C++. (Although I have licenses to MSDN and Visual Studio,
>>I use Express a lot as I support a product that allows users to develop
>>their own extensions with Visual Studio or just Visual Studio Express.)
<snip>
provides free, limited functionality for e-mail and (gag) news in Vista
and 7. That and the fact rewrite and renaming took 15 years. Even if
support had ended with OE it's hard to believe it took that long for MS
to get out of it's own way. It could have been done in XP.
I don't see any reason to believe MS Outlook was intended to compete for
shares among Outlook Express users, but rather from other PIMs. If
anything it might be seen as leverage for sales of Office because of
dependencies it has there.
If a freebie serves your needs that's almost certainly a feature and not
a bug.
<058kf71c2apn12vjs...@4ax.com>:
>On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 12:04:11 -0500, Cindy Ross <ro...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
>>>I've tried the freebies, but they can't handle it. I think whenever MS adds
>>>'Express' to something, e.g., Outlook, it's just to draw you in to purchase
>>>something.
>>
>>Actually, I have been pretty impressed with the Express versions of MS's
>>Visual Studio C++. (Although I have licenses to MSDN and Visual Studio,
>>I use Express a lot as I support a product that allows users to develop
>>their own extensions with Visual Studio or just Visual Studio Express.)
>>But it is definitely more than a worthless teaser, and for some folks
>>may be all they ever need. IMHO, it's excellent, for a "freebie".
>
>That has always been MS's problem. Depending upon your needs, the Express versions
>may satisfy. Too many were satisfied with Outlook Express, which didn't result in
>many sales for Outlook. Result? No more OE.
>
The difficulty such a heroic leap encounters is Windows Mail. MS still
>>may be all they ever need. IMHO, it's excellent, for a "freebie".
>
>That has always been MS's problem. Depending upon your needs, the Express versions
>may satisfy. Too many were satisfied with Outlook Express, which didn't result in
>many sales for Outlook. Result? No more OE.
>
provides free, limited functionality for e-mail and (gag) news in Vista
and 7. That and the fact rewrite and renaming took 15 years. Even if
support had ended with OE it's hard to believe it took that long for MS
to get out of it's own way. It could have been done in XP.
I don't see any reason to believe MS Outlook was intended to compete for
shares among Outlook Express users, but rather from other PIMs. If
anything it might be seen as leverage for sales of Office because of
dependencies it has there.
If a freebie serves your needs that's almost certainly a feature and not
a bug.
G. Morgan
Dec 27, 2011, 8:32:48 PM12/27/11
to
Randy wrote:
>On 12/13/2011 9:03 PM, Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:
>> I settled on Thunderbird because it was the closest I could find to the
>> way Agent works when I could no longer operate without IMAP.
>
>Me too. If someone would implement
>cross-post management, and make it so quotes
>wrap properly all the time, it would be
>almost perfect for me.
I wonder if an extension can be written to make T-Bird behave more like
Agent?
>On 12/13/2011 9:03 PM, Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:
>> I settled on Thunderbird because it was the closest I could find to the
>> way Agent works when I could no longer operate without IMAP.
>
>Me too. If someone would implement
>cross-post management, and make it so quotes
>wrap properly all the time, it would be
>almost perfect for me.
I wonder if an extension can be written to make T-Bird behave more like
Agent?
drek
Dec 27, 2011, 8:56:32 PM12/27/11
to
On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 19:52:32 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
<i2bfe79pnsm9heee7...@4ax.com>:
>[Default] On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:42:10 -0800, char...@email.com
>is almost certainly moribund now and won't get any significant
>changes.
That's really the final answer. What market is there in making keys for
locks that don't exist? The onus for meaningful improvement has been on
servers themselves for many years. Giganews claims over 10 million
broadband users a month so it's easy to see who is holding money for
development, not to mention the fact that significant changes would need
to be server-side anyway. Forte can't wag the dog.
At the bottom of it all is, partly, there are only so many ways to slice
and dice a text file. Binary Usenet never materialized but fortunately
yEnc provided the next-best in spite of the ponderous considerations and
false hopes that would have prevented it. I haven't looked at their
to-do list from 10 years back but there wasn't much more on it than that
to begin with.
The point is if any work remains to be done, it isn't by Forte.
What the pause may best answer is the sharp criticism they've received
in this group over the years at every major release claiming it was
unwarranted. The question of development really answers itself.
Add in accusations of feature bloat in spite of the fact_they actually
work_and alternatives are probably found in YouTube, basket weaving, or
some other pursuit. Maybe there's no money in e-mail but other than that
ist's no wonder the road map doesn't include whistling Dixie.
Regards,
<i2bfe79pnsm9heee7...@4ax.com>:
>[Default] On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:42:10 -0800, char...@email.com
>wrote:
>
>>Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
>>alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.
>
>I can't see much need to switch newsreaders, since the NNTP protocol
>
>>Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
>>alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.
>
>is almost certainly moribund now and won't get any significant
>changes.
That's really the final answer. What market is there in making keys for
locks that don't exist? The onus for meaningful improvement has been on
servers themselves for many years. Giganews claims over 10 million
broadband users a month so it's easy to see who is holding money for
development, not to mention the fact that significant changes would need
to be server-side anyway. Forte can't wag the dog.
At the bottom of it all is, partly, there are only so many ways to slice
and dice a text file. Binary Usenet never materialized but fortunately
yEnc provided the next-best in spite of the ponderous considerations and
false hopes that would have prevented it. I haven't looked at their
to-do list from 10 years back but there wasn't much more on it than that
to begin with.
The point is if any work remains to be done, it isn't by Forte.
What the pause may best answer is the sharp criticism they've received
in this group over the years at every major release claiming it was
unwarranted. The question of development really answers itself.
Add in accusations of feature bloat in spite of the fact_they actually
work_and alternatives are probably found in YouTube, basket weaving, or
some other pursuit. Maybe there's no money in e-mail but other than that
ist's no wonder the road map doesn't include whistling Dixie.
Regards,
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Ralph Fox
Dec 28, 2011, 6:48:33 PM12/28/11
to
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 14:07:13 -0800, in message <jf4nf79gk33inl6j2...@4ax.com>
Geoff wrote:
> The parasites are a very small minority, certainly less than 1% of the
> viewing public. Losses due to parasitic viewing are vastly over
> estimated by the producers because they have a vested interest.
Is there a good reason why I should consider the claim "certainly
less than 1%" to be any more credible than the producers?
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Geoff wrote:
> The parasites are a very small minority, certainly less than 1% of the
> viewing public. Losses due to parasitic viewing are vastly over
> estimated by the producers because they have a vested interest.
Is there a good reason why I should consider the claim "certainly
less than 1%" to be any more credible than the producers?
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Message has been deleted
Geoff
Dec 29, 2011, 12:59:37 AM12/29/11
to
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 12:48:33 +1300, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>
wrote:
Nope. Consider it apocryphal if you like. I make no pretence to
special knowledge. In informal conversations with several hundred
customers, acquaintances and others I have only met one who downloads
bootlegged or ripped entertainment. Most either have no need or no
desire to practice it. Of course, these are all adults. I can't speak
for their knowledge of what their kids were up to.
wrote:
special knowledge. In informal conversations with several hundred
customers, acquaintances and others I have only met one who downloads
bootlegged or ripped entertainment. Most either have no need or no
desire to practice it. Of course, these are all adults. I can't speak
for their knowledge of what their kids were up to.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
drek
Dec 29, 2011, 7:16:11 PM12/29/11
to
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 09:49:24 -0500, Arno Martens <sne...@sympatico.ca>
wrote: <jdfa9n$jiq$1...@news.datemas.de>:
>©Tue, 27 Dec 2011 17:56:32 -0800, drek <no...@none.invalid>, wrote:
<snip>
>
>Over the weekend I talked with someone about eMail and told him that I
>had been using Agent for 14 years although it was designed for usenet,
>which is supposed to be dying.
>
If text Usenet still enjoys input from worthwhile contributors like Mary
Shafer (NASA) on even an occasional basis I am not aware of it. This
group is worth taking time away from everything else only because of
people like Ralph and others who actually know what they are talking
about. IOW there is actually something to be learned about the subject
and in this case there probably isn't a published alternative.
I think the question of an alternative to Agent is, in reality, a
question of whether there's an alternative to Usenet. Unfortunately as
an informational source that isn't true AFAICS although I admit to not
being very well read. The days when news groups used to be the first
thing that came to mind for answers to anything are long past.
If Usenet is dead Agent is a moot issue unless it handles some other
feed as well.
>He countered that nzb with usenet is the cats meow for getting English
>language movies from Russia a week before they are released to North
>American theaters.
>
>I don't watch movies but maybe for SWMBO's sake I should find a tutorial
>on nzb and study up on it.
>;->)
It could make you a hero! I rarely take time for a movie in or out of a
theatre but I regret putting off nzb as long as I did.
You didn't hear it from me but there's lots of good sources to find out
what's playing. I can't comment on Agent for nzb but the app to beat is
Alt.binz. It's almost insanely capable and in my experience rock solid.
Once configured it also makes the whole process of d/l, error checking,
selective par2 d/l, decompression, reassembly, and filing a one click
task. There's a pay version but the free one works for me.
alt.binaries.nzb-files.multimedia
http://www.binsearch.info/
http://www.altbinz.net/
wrote: <jdfa9n$jiq$1...@news.datemas.de>:
>©Tue, 27 Dec 2011 17:56:32 -0800, drek <no...@none.invalid>, wrote:
<snip>
>>
>>At the bottom of it all is, partly, there are only so many ways to slice
>>and dice a text file. Binary Usenet never materialized
>[ ... ]
>>At the bottom of it all is, partly, there are only so many ways to slice
>>and dice a text file. Binary Usenet never materialized
>
>Over the weekend I talked with someone about eMail and told him that I
>had been using Agent for 14 years although it was designed for usenet,
>which is supposed to be dying.
>
If text Usenet still enjoys input from worthwhile contributors like Mary
Shafer (NASA) on even an occasional basis I am not aware of it. This
group is worth taking time away from everything else only because of
people like Ralph and others who actually know what they are talking
about. IOW there is actually something to be learned about the subject
and in this case there probably isn't a published alternative.
I think the question of an alternative to Agent is, in reality, a
question of whether there's an alternative to Usenet. Unfortunately as
an informational source that isn't true AFAICS although I admit to not
being very well read. The days when news groups used to be the first
thing that came to mind for answers to anything are long past.
If Usenet is dead Agent is a moot issue unless it handles some other
feed as well.
>He countered that nzb with usenet is the cats meow for getting English
>language movies from Russia a week before they are released to North
>American theaters.
>
>I don't watch movies but maybe for SWMBO's sake I should find a tutorial
>on nzb and study up on it.
>;->)
It could make you a hero! I rarely take time for a movie in or out of a
theatre but I regret putting off nzb as long as I did.
You didn't hear it from me but there's lots of good sources to find out
what's playing. I can't comment on Agent for nzb but the app to beat is
Alt.binz. It's almost insanely capable and in my experience rock solid.
Once configured it also makes the whole process of d/l, error checking,
selective par2 d/l, decompression, reassembly, and filing a one click
task. There's a pay version but the free one works for me.
alt.binaries.nzb-files.multimedia
http://www.binsearch.info/
http://www.altbinz.net/
drek
Dec 29, 2011, 7:40:15 PM12/29/11
to
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 22:44:58 +0000, Marc Wilson <ma...@cleopatra.co.uk>
wrote: <bu6nf79998a8groia...@4ax.com>:
>In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Geoff) wrote in
><jf4nf79gk33inl6j2...@4ax.com>::
>>On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:39:56 +0000, Marc Wilson <ma...@cleopatra.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>>In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Arno Martens) wrote in
>>><jdfa9n$jiq$1...@news.datemas.de>::
<snip>
>>>vast balls of crap that will make so much money that they can afford the
>>>parasites.
>>>
>>>Smart.
>>
>>Vast balls of crap are made regardless of whether parasites exist or
>>not.
Hey! I saw Creature from the Black Lagoon. It wasn't all that bad.
From what little I've read of the industry the consideration is purely
revenue not artistry. Ask Orson Wells, he has lots to say on the
subject. In retrospect he concedes his years in the industry were wasted
because they would not permit productions simply because they were
excellent and that was long before any PC.
Producers aren't in the business of giving people what they need but
what they want. In the end people are voting in what gets produced.
>>
>>The parasites are a very small minority, certainly less than 1% of the
>>viewing public. Losses due to parasitic viewing are vastly over
>>estimated by the producers because they have a vested interest.
>
>Doesn't make it right- any more than "well, it's only one bottle" makes
>roadside littering OK.
But that wasn't answering right or wrong so this changes the question.
Required reading prior to discussion should be Jack Valenti testimony
before the House committee in 1982.
With no less than Clint Eastwood watching his back he threw every flag
conceivable on the illegal play of VHS recording equipment. American
flag, rape, righteousness, GNP--oh the humanity! I was ready to grab a
pitch fork and noose myself.
Then some smartass asked Valenti if he used them himself. I won't spoil
the ending but a transcript is available here.
http://cryptome.org/hrcw-hear.htm
The basic fallicy of the whole argument is the guy ripping off 20 videos
would have given the industry 400 bucks instead. I don't think the MPAA
even believe that themselves. Not to mention the fact they outlived VHS.
Back to the original question though if binaries and file sharing are
ruled out what alternative is there to Agent? Probably none because
there's nothing else that can do something to text that Agent can't.
A book is a book is a book.
wrote: <bu6nf79998a8groia...@4ax.com>:
>In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Geoff) wrote in
><jf4nf79gk33inl6j2...@4ax.com>::
>>On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:39:56 +0000, Marc Wilson <ma...@cleopatra.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>>In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Arno Martens) wrote in
>>><jdfa9n$jiq$1...@news.datemas.de>::
<snip>
>>>>I don't watch movies but maybe for SWMBO's sake I should find a tutorial
>>>>on nzb and study up on it.
>>>>;->)
>>>
>>>And thereby help to ensure that films will no longer be made, except for
>>>>on nzb and study up on it.
>>>>;->)
>>>
>>>vast balls of crap that will make so much money that they can afford the
>>>parasites.
>>>
>>>Smart.
>>
>>Vast balls of crap are made regardless of whether parasites exist or
>>not.
Hey! I saw Creature from the Black Lagoon. It wasn't all that bad.
From what little I've read of the industry the consideration is purely
revenue not artistry. Ask Orson Wells, he has lots to say on the
subject. In retrospect he concedes his years in the industry were wasted
because they would not permit productions simply because they were
excellent and that was long before any PC.
Producers aren't in the business of giving people what they need but
what they want. In the end people are voting in what gets produced.
>>
>>The parasites are a very small minority, certainly less than 1% of the
>>viewing public. Losses due to parasitic viewing are vastly over
>>estimated by the producers because they have a vested interest.
>
>roadside littering OK.
But that wasn't answering right or wrong so this changes the question.
Required reading prior to discussion should be Jack Valenti testimony
before the House committee in 1982.
With no less than Clint Eastwood watching his back he threw every flag
conceivable on the illegal play of VHS recording equipment. American
flag, rape, righteousness, GNP--oh the humanity! I was ready to grab a
pitch fork and noose myself.
Then some smartass asked Valenti if he used them himself. I won't spoil
the ending but a transcript is available here.
http://cryptome.org/hrcw-hear.htm
The basic fallicy of the whole argument is the guy ripping off 20 videos
would have given the industry 400 bucks instead. I don't think the MPAA
even believe that themselves. Not to mention the fact they outlived VHS.
Back to the original question though if binaries and file sharing are
ruled out what alternative is there to Agent? Probably none because
there's nothing else that can do something to text that Agent can't.
A book is a book is a book.
Ralph Fox
Dec 29, 2011, 10:14:57 PM12/29/11
to
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 16:40:15 -0800, in message <r7mpf71m5n5lrusef...@4ax.com>
drek wrote:
> Back to the original question though if binaries and file sharing are
> ruled out what alternative is there to Agent? Probably none because
> there's nothing else that can do something to text that Agent can't.
❶ Agent can't display or post text which Unicode programs can
drek wrote:
> Back to the original question though if binaries and file sharing are
> ruled out what alternative is there to Agent? Probably none because
> there's nothing else that can do something to text that Agent can't.
(Thunderbird, for example).
❷ Here is an example. You will see question marks in Agent.
You will see real text in Thunderbird and in Google groups.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
＂Ｊｕｓｔ ｔｈｅ ｐｌａｃｅ ｆｏｒ ａ ｓｎａｒｋ！＂ ｔｈｅ Ｂｅｌｌｍａｎ ｃｒｉｅｄ，
ａｓ ｈｅ ｌａｎｄｅｄ ｈｉｓ ｃｒｅｗ ｗｉｔｈ ｃａｒｅ；
ｓｕｐｐｏｒｔｉｎｇ ｅａｃｈ ｍａｎ ｏｎ ｔｈｅ ｔｏｐ ｏｆ ｔｈｅ ｔｉｄｅ
Ｂｙ ａ ｆｉｎｇｅｒ ｅｎｔｗｉｎｅｄ ｉｎ ｈｉｓ ｈａｉｒ.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Robert Miles
Dec 30, 2011, 12:13:34 AM12/30/11
to
On 12/13/2011 1:42 PM, char...@email.com wrote:
> Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
> alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed. Along with a good
> Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
> software for the above, how well do these import newsgroups folders and email folders from
> Agent. I have a lot of stored email information in various folders that, if I switch, I
> would want to import the folder for use in the new software.
>
> Thanks for any insights.
>
> charliec
Mozilla Thunderbird has an import capability (look under Tools) and is
still in active development. I haven't found info on whether one of
the formats it can import is the one used by Agent, though. Fairly
good filtering capability. Not intended for doing much with binary
newsgroups.
The various Microsoft email/newsreader programs are not known for
being very good at filtering. The newer ones can import from the
older ones, though. I suspect that these would be able to import
your folders only if Agent can export them in a suitable
Microsoft format. Only Windows Live Mail is still in active
development, and it seems to be de-emphasizing use for newsgroups.
Robert Miles
Robert Miles
Dec 30, 2011, 12:26:56 AM12/30/11
to
they leech, and the measurement above is by the number of people,
you could easily believe both at once if the leeches download a
very large number of files each on average.
Robert Miles
Robert Miles
Dec 30, 2011, 12:29:26 AM12/30/11
to
Robert Miles
Robert Miles
Dec 30, 2011, 12:42:46 AM12/30/11
to
get the source code to help develop the next version. If you're a
good enough programmer, that should also allow you to write such an
extension.
Robert Miles
Robert Miles
Dec 30, 2011, 12:55:57 AM12/30/11
to
On 12/25/2011 3:48 PM, Ralph Fox wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 18:58:11 +0100, in message<6rohe7deb84tuq2e5...@4ax.com>
> Otto Jørgensen wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 06:18:25 +1300, in
>> alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent Ralph Fox<-rf-nz-@-.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:45:24 +0100, in message<tekhe7lv0vdgik1g7...@4ax.com>
>>> Otto Jørgensen wrote:
>>>
>>>> The large problem (?) is to covert the mail from Forte to an other
>>>> program.
>>>> But have I to do so, i will not die to have Forte as a historical
>>>> program on my PC.
>>>
>>>
>>> It is not difficult to move emails back and forth between Agent and Thunderbird.
>>
>> Maight be so, but as fat as far as I can see there is no discribtion
>> on how doeing this to most program as Outlooc, Live. Gmail etc
>
>
> A. "Outlooc, Live"
>
> Microsoft (Outlook, WLM) are not like most programs. Many other
> email programs (except Microsoft) can import MBOX format mail files
> (which Agent calls a "Unix Message File").
>
> To get an email folder from Agent into many email programs (except Microsoft)
> 1. Export the email folder from Agent as a "Unix Message File".
> 2. Import the "Unix Message File" (MBOX file) into the other email program
>
> For step-by-step instructions with Thunderbird, see below.
>
>
> B. "Gmail"
>
> Gmail is not an email program on your computer. Gmail is a server.
> To get your email from Agent into Gmail
> 1. First get your email into an email program like Thunderbird which
> supports IMAP.
> 2. Then move the imported email into a Gmail IMAP folder.
>
>
>
> To get an email folder from Agent into Thunderbird, here are step-by-step
> instructions. (This expands on what Jeffrey Kaplan has already written.)
[snip]
Is there a similar set of instructions for moving saved newsgroups posts
from one program to another? I have far more saved newsgroups posts
than email messages - exhausting the number my previous two
email/newsreader programs (WM, WLM) could handle is why I am no longer
using them.
Robert Miles
Robert Miles
> On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 18:58:11 +0100, in message<6rohe7deb84tuq2e5...@4ax.com>
> Otto Jørgensen wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 06:18:25 +1300, in
>> alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent Ralph Fox<-rf-nz-@-.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:45:24 +0100, in message<tekhe7lv0vdgik1g7...@4ax.com>
>>> Otto Jørgensen wrote:
>>>
>>>> The large problem (?) is to covert the mail from Forte to an other
>>>> program.
>>>> But have I to do so, i will not die to have Forte as a historical
>>>> program on my PC.
>>>
>>>
>>> It is not difficult to move emails back and forth between Agent and Thunderbird.
>>
>> Maight be so, but as fat as far as I can see there is no discribtion
>> on how doeing this to most program as Outlooc, Live. Gmail etc
>
>
> A. "Outlooc, Live"
>
> Microsoft (Outlook, WLM) are not like most programs. Many other
> email programs (except Microsoft) can import MBOX format mail files
> (which Agent calls a "Unix Message File").
>
> To get an email folder from Agent into many email programs (except Microsoft)
> 1. Export the email folder from Agent as a "Unix Message File".
> 2. Import the "Unix Message File" (MBOX file) into the other email program
>
> For step-by-step instructions with Thunderbird, see below.
>
>
> B. "Gmail"
>
> Gmail is not an email program on your computer. Gmail is a server.
> To get your email from Agent into Gmail
> 1. First get your email into an email program like Thunderbird which
> supports IMAP.
> 2. Then move the imported email into a Gmail IMAP folder.
>
>
>
> To get an email folder from Agent into Thunderbird, here are step-by-step
> instructions. (This expands on what Jeffrey Kaplan has already written.)
[snip]
Is there a similar set of instructions for moving saved newsgroups posts
from one program to another? I have far more saved newsgroups posts
than email messages - exhausting the number my previous two
email/newsreader programs (WM, WLM) could handle is why I am no longer
using them.
Robert Miles
Robert Miles
Robert Miles
Dec 30, 2011, 1:06:25 AM12/30/11
to
On 12/23/2011 5:02 AM, Randy wrote:
> On 12/22/2011 11:41 AM, Wayne Garmil wrote:
>
>
> I would like to see a group of coders from this group organize and
> develop Thunderbird's newsreader.
I've already been thinking of that, but have not yet gone far
enough to tell if I would need to learn at least one more
computer language first.
Robert Miles
> On 12/22/2011 11:41 AM, Wayne Garmil wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:42:10 -0800,char...@email.com wrote:
>>
>>> >Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing
>>> Agent, what are good
>>> >alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.
>
>> I hope that day never comes.
>>
>>> >Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing
>>> Agent, what are good
>>> >alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.
>
>
>
> I would like to see a group of coders from this group organize and
> develop Thunderbird's newsreader.
I've already been thinking of that, but have not yet gone far
enough to tell if I would need to learn at least one more
computer language first.
Robert Miles
Robert Miles
Dec 30, 2011, 1:10:00 AM12/30/11
to
On 12/23/2011 6:49 AM, Isis wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 07:21:00 -0500, Cindy Ross<ro...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
>> C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)
>
> While you're waiting, why not fix Powerpost? It's driving me crazy.
>
> (I'd do it myself if I could compile the .cpp's.)
>
> Isis
Do you have the source code, and which operating system do you want
it compiled for?
Robert Miles
> On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 07:21:00 -0500, Cindy Ross<ro...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
>> C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)
>
> While you're waiting, why not fix Powerpost? It's driving me crazy.
>
> (I'd do it myself if I could compile the .cpp's.)
>
> Isis
Do you have the source code, and which operating system do you want
it compiled for?
Robert Miles
Robert Miles
Dec 30, 2011, 1:18:30 AM12/30/11
to
On 12/23/2011 7:45 AM, Isis wrote:
>
> Thanks, anyway.
>
> Isis
I've already tried the C++ portion of it for other purposes, and found
the following:
1. The section for compiling C instead of C++ is not included in the
free trial version.
2. The free trial version is somewhat limited in how big a data space
the program you're compiling can have.
Robert Miles
> I've tried the freebies, but they can't handle it. I think whenever MS adds
> 'Express' to something, e.g., Outlook, it's just to draw you in to purchase
> something.
>
> Maybe I'll try the VS10 free trial.
> 'Express' to something, e.g., Outlook, it's just to draw you in to purchase
> something.
>
>
> Thanks, anyway.
>
> Isis
I've already tried the C++ portion of it for other purposes, and found
the following:
1. The section for compiling C instead of C++ is not included in the
free trial version.
2. The free trial version is somewhat limited in how big a data space
the program you're compiling can have.
Robert Miles
Ralph Fox
Dec 30, 2011, 1:36:25 AM12/30/11
to
Otherwise, any comparison may be GIGO ("Garbage In, Garbage Out").
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Geoff
Dec 30, 2011, 2:11:17 AM12/30/11
to
only one that had the actual sources available on a quick and shallow
check of SourceForge.
http://powerpost.sourceforge.net/ Power Post 2004
Geoff
Dec 30, 2011, 2:30:32 AM12/30/11
to
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 19:36:25 +1300, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>
wrote:
The only references I have ever seen was "estimated losses". This is
the bean counters counting the beans they've never seen.
I don't know how they can claim to be able to separate the losses to
piracy vs the noise of seasonal/economical variation of sales.
68.25 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot. :)
wrote:
the bean counters counting the beans they've never seen.
I don't know how they can claim to be able to separate the losses to
piracy vs the noise of seasonal/economical variation of sales.
68.25 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot. :)
Ralph Fox
Dec 30, 2011, 3:44:09 AM12/30/11
to
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 23:55:57 -0600, in message <4efd5286$0$11237$882e...@usenet-news.net>
Robert Miles wrote:
> Is there a similar set of instructions for moving saved newsgroups posts
> from one program to another? I have far more saved newsgroups posts
> than email messages - exhausting the number my previous two
> email/newsreader programs (WM, WLM) could handle is why I am no longer
> using them.
The exact same instructions can be used to move newsgroup posts with
Robert Miles wrote:
> Is there a similar set of instructions for moving saved newsgroups posts
> from one program to another? I have far more saved newsgroups posts
> than email messages - exhausting the number my previous two
> email/newsreader programs (WM, WLM) could handle is why I am no longer
> using them.
bodies into a "Local Folders" mail folder in Thunderbird. The final
result will be like what you would get if the posts had been dragged
and dropped from a Thunderbird newsgroup into the folder.
I know of no way to get newsgroups posts from Agent into a *newsgroup*
in Thunderbird.
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Ralph Fox
Dec 30, 2011, 4:16:31 AM12/30/11
to
On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 17:50:00 -0500, in message <qvdkf75mjqnlq7b6o...@4ax.com>
Cindy Ross wrote:
> It's just a wish; this is the right season for wishes, right? :-)
> The bottom line is that of course I cannot say if it would ever
> realistically happen, probably not.
>
> (By the way, one reason that I chimed in with my wish was that I have
> heard it said in other threads in the past that there isn't really any
> need for an open source Agent, as there would be no developers to create
> enhancements for it, if one assumes that that any potential developers
> are likely already tied up working on existing open source newsreaders.
> But I don't think that's necessarily the case.)
Regarding those potential developers who are not tied up on existing
projects. Let's put them into two categories:
A. Those who want to enhance Agent.
B. Those who are just curious how Mark implemented things.
IMO in the 50+ months since Agent development has slowed, if there
were enough potential developers in category 'A' then they could
have already forked Pan, made it into a functional clone of Agent,
and be enhancing it.
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Cindy Ross wrote:
> It's just a wish; this is the right season for wishes, right? :-)
> The bottom line is that of course I cannot say if it would ever
> realistically happen, probably not.
>
> (By the way, one reason that I chimed in with my wish was that I have
> heard it said in other threads in the past that there isn't really any
> need for an open source Agent, as there would be no developers to create
> enhancements for it, if one assumes that that any potential developers
> are likely already tied up working on existing open source newsreaders.
> But I don't think that's necessarily the case.)
Regarding those potential developers who are not tied up on existing
projects. Let's put them into two categories:
A. Those who want to enhance Agent.
B. Those who are just curious how Mark implemented things.
IMO in the 50+ months since Agent development has slowed, if there
were enough potential developers in category 'A' then they could
have already forked Pan, made it into a functional clone of Agent,
and be enhancing it.
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Randy
Dec 30, 2011, 5:35:12 AM12/30/11
to
Fri, 30 Dec 2011 00:06:25 -0600, in article
<4efd54fd$0$11159$882e...@usenet-news.net>,
--
Forte Agent: 6.0/32.1186; Windows: 5.1
(Build 2600.xpsp_sp3_qfe.101209-1646 : Service Pack 3)
<4efd54fd$0$11159$882e...@usenet-news.net>,
"Robert Miles <mil...@Usenet-News.net>" wrote:
>On 12/23/2011 5:02 AM, Randy wrote:
>>... I would like to see a group of coders from this group organize and
>On 12/23/2011 5:02 AM, Randy wrote:
>> develop Thunderbird's newsreader.
>
>I've already been thinking of that, but have not yet gone far
>enough to tell if I would need to learn at least one more
>computer language first.
http://mzl.la/udKw1f
>
>I've already been thinking of that, but have not yet gone far
>enough to tell if I would need to learn at least one more
>computer language first.
--
Forte Agent: 6.0/32.1186; Windows: 5.1
(Build 2600.xpsp_sp3_qfe.101209-1646 : Service Pack 3)
Isis
Dec 30, 2011, 6:23:33 AM12/30/11
to
The latter I could get, but the former?
Isis
Dec 30, 2011, 6:25:07 AM12/30/11
to
Isis
Dec 30, 2011, 6:29:56 AM12/30/11
to
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 00:10:00 -0600, Robert Miles <mil...@Usenet-News.net> wrote:
version of PP for my own use until they fix the real one. (I was also going to
expand its parameters a bit so I could use it for testing purposes.
Isis
Dec 30, 2011, 6:37:41 AM12/30/11
to
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 23:11:17 -0800, Geoff <ge...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
There was PP 2K, 2a, 2b, 2c, jw Edition c, A&A 11b, GB-12...
Those are all history.
Here is the current link:
<http://powerpost.camelsystem.nl/e-downloads.php
Geoff
Dec 30, 2011, 6:46:02 AM12/30/11
to
real deal and it isn't cheap, which is really stupid because Apple's
Xcode 4.2 which supports IOS and Mac OS X is $4.99 on the AppStore.
Geoff
Dec 30, 2011, 7:25:56 AM12/30/11
to
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 05:37:41 -0600, Isis <isis...@hotpop.com> wrote:
>In 2004 they were still trying to get yEnc to function correctly.
>
>There was PP 2K, 2a, 2b, 2c, jw Edition c, A&A 11b, GB-12...
>
>Those are all history.
>
>Here is the current link:
>
><http://powerpost.camelsystem.nl/e-downloads.php
You're in luck. That project is a VC6 project. If you can get your
>In 2004 they were still trying to get yEnc to function correctly.
>
>There was PP 2K, 2a, 2b, 2c, jw Edition c, A&A 11b, GB-12...
>
>Those are all history.
>
>Here is the current link:
>
><http://powerpost.camelsystem.nl/e-downloads.php
hands on VS 6.0 you can build and fix it yourself. :)
Isis
Dec 30, 2011, 7:41:25 AM12/30/11
to
If you mean downloading a cracked version from Usenet, why stop at VS 6?
I mean, Boots-Man can be trusted, and he's got the full blown VS 10.
(A nice ISO you can mount on your virtual drive.)
Geoff
Dec 30, 2011, 8:19:56 AM12/30/11
to
the project now in VS2010 Pro and there are several errors preventing
a successful build. MS was giving VS6 away for a long time. It
disappeared from their site when VS2005, etc. appeared. There must
still be some sources out there for it. It would be far easier to get
the VS6, patch the fixes you want and post the fixes to camelsystem
and be done. :) Let them fret over VS2010.
Isis
Dec 30, 2011, 8:59:24 AM12/30/11
to
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 05:19:56 -0800, Geoff <ge...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>The changes in C++ since VS6 make it hard to convert. I'm toying with
>the project now in VS2010 Pro and there are several errors preventing
>a successful build. MS was giving VS6 away for a long time. It
>disappeared from their site when VS2005, etc. appeared. There must
>still be some sources out there for it. It would be far easier to get
>the VS6, patch the fixes you want and post the fixes to camelsystem
>and be done. :) Let them fret over VS2010.
I found this little tidbit, & I suppose it applies to Win7 as well:
>The changes in C++ since VS6 make it hard to convert. I'm toying with
>the project now in VS2010 Pro and there are several errors preventing
>a successful build. MS was giving VS6 away for a long time. It
>disappeared from their site when VS2005, etc. appeared. There must
>still be some sources out there for it. It would be far easier to get
>the VS6, patch the fixes you want and post the fixes to camelsystem
>and be done. :) Let them fret over VS2010.
>Visual Basic 6.0 is supported on Vista, but Visual Studio 6 is not.
>One reason is that it includes the Microsoft Java Virtual Machine which
>Microsoft promised Sun it would withdraw. This is the stated reason why
>Visual Studio 6.0 is no longer available for download,
>even for MSDN Universal subscribers.
I have already posted my concerns to the Powerpost forum. Whether they do anything
about it in their next release is anyone's guess. I expect that they will fix the
bug, but whether they will expand the article size parameters remains to be seen.
Thanks for all of your input. As far as compiling their existing source code, I've
always wondered if they might leave a few syntax errors in it to stop people like me
from messing with their product. I would have no problem playing around with GB-12,
because any product that remains in beta 7 for years has obviously been abandoned.
So I guess it will be a holding pattern for awhile to see if anything materializes.
Thanks again,
Stephen Wolstenholme
Dec 30, 2011, 9:10:37 AM12/30/11
to
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 05:19:56 -0800, Geoff <ge...@invalid.invalid>
I think I have every VS since the beginning of time! I've always found
that converting from one version build to the next needs a lot of
work. I have even done full rewrites instead of spending weeks trying
to fix compile and build problems.
Steve
--
Neural network software applications, help and support.
Neural Network Software. http://www.npsl1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com
that converting from one version build to the next needs a lot of
work. I have even done full rewrites instead of spending weeks trying
to fix compile and build problems.
Steve
--
Neural network software applications, help and support.
Neural Network Software. http://www.npsl1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com
Geoff
Dec 30, 2011, 1:15:44 PM12/30/11
to
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 14:10:37 +0000, Stephen Wolstenholme
<st...@npsl1.com> wrote:
>I think I have every VS since the beginning of time! I've always found
>that converting from one version build to the next needs a lot of
>work. I have even done full rewrites instead of spending weeks trying
>to fix compile and build problems.
I dropped my MSDN subscription when the marketing weenies created such
<st...@npsl1.com> wrote:
>I think I have every VS since the beginning of time! I've always found
>that converting from one version build to the next needs a lot of
>work. I have even done full rewrites instead of spending weeks trying
>to fix compile and build problems.
a mess with their names I couldn't discern which product I was
subscribing. I had Universal originally, and yes I had CDs and CD
books stacked to the ceiling in my office. I have a "master" book with
all the OS and SDKs and the silver Win2000 CD in it with the last VS6
release. I think my last update was 2008 or 2009. :)
I popped for VS2010 out of necessity and it's a lot better at
converting from VS6 than VS2005 or 2008 were.
Geoff
Dec 30, 2011, 1:47:14 PM12/30/11
to
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 07:59:24 -0600, Isis <isis...@hotpop.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 05:19:56 -0800, Geoff <ge...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>The changes in C++ since VS6 make it hard to convert. I'm toying with
>>the project now in VS2010 Pro and there are several errors preventing
>>a successful build. MS was giving VS6 away for a long time. It
>>disappeared from their site when VS2005, etc. appeared. There must
>>still be some sources out there for it. It would be far easier to get
>>the VS6, patch the fixes you want and post the fixes to camelsystem
>>and be done. :) Let them fret over VS2010.
>
>I found this little tidbit, & I suppose it applies to Win7 as well:
>
>>Visual Basic 6.0 is supported on Vista, but Visual Studio 6 is not.
>>One reason is that it includes the Microsoft Java Virtual Machine which
>>Microsoft promised Sun it would withdraw. This is the stated reason why
>>Visual Studio 6.0 is no longer available for download,
>>even for MSDN Universal subscribers.
Interesting. I know VS6 simply refuses to install on Win7. I didn't
>On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 05:19:56 -0800, Geoff <ge...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>The changes in C++ since VS6 make it hard to convert. I'm toying with
>>the project now in VS2010 Pro and there are several errors preventing
>>a successful build. MS was giving VS6 away for a long time. It
>>disappeared from their site when VS2005, etc. appeared. There must
>>still be some sources out there for it. It would be far easier to get
>>the VS6, patch the fixes you want and post the fixes to camelsystem
>>and be done. :) Let them fret over VS2010.
>
>I found this little tidbit, & I suppose it applies to Win7 as well:
>
>>Visual Basic 6.0 is supported on Vista, but Visual Studio 6 is not.
>>One reason is that it includes the Microsoft Java Virtual Machine which
>>Microsoft promised Sun it would withdraw. This is the stated reason why
>>Visual Studio 6.0 is no longer available for download,
>>even for MSDN Universal subscribers.
know that was the reason.
>
>I have already posted my concerns to the Powerpost forum. Whether they do anything
>about it in their next release is anyone's guess. I expect that they will fix the
>bug, but whether they will expand the article size parameters remains to be seen.
>
>Thanks for all of your input. As far as compiling their existing source code, I've
>always wondered if they might leave a few syntax errors in it to stop people like me
>from messing with their product. I would have no problem playing around with GB-12,
>because any product that remains in beta 7 for years has obviously been abandoned.
>
and changing the prototype and definition of CM_WriteCStringToFile
from:
BOOL CM_WriteCStringToFile(CFile& theFile, CString& theString);
to:
BOOL CM_WriteCStringToFile(CFile& theFile, const CString& theString);
There was also an error in the message map handlers for the main
frame. I got around that for the time being by hacking out the two
offending lines regarding WM_ICONNOTIFY and WM_SENDTO_TRAY:
BEGIN_MESSAGE_MAP(CMainFrame, CFrameWnd)
//{{AFX_MSG_MAP(CMainFrame)
ON_WM_CREATE()
ON_WM_CLOSE()
//}}AFX_MSG_MAP
ON_WM_SYSCOMMAND()
// ON_MESSAGE(WM_ICONNOTIFY, OnIconNotification)
// ON_MESSAGE(WM_SENDTO_TRAY, OnSendToTray)
END_MESSAGE_MAP()
Something to look at in more detail later.
I got a good debug run and it opens the window and all items I tried
seem to function correctly. Fixing these messages is beyond me at the
moment since I am engaged in some higher priority home duties at the
moment and only spent an hour or two on this one.
The program also leaks 8 bytes on close, just by starting the program
and closing it without doing anything else.
Lots of unsurprising C4996 warnings, even with _CRT_SECURE_NO_WARNINGS
set. Deprecated POSIX function calls need to be rewritten.
Still tweaking the project settings for debug and release modes, no
attempt at compiling for x86_64.
All in all, not a hard hack yet.
Ralph Fox
Dec 30, 2011, 2:12:18 PM12/30/11
to
extension, and doesn't need core back-end changes to TB.
B. If anyone is considering developing a TB extension, start here:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Extensions/Thunderbird
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Ralph Fox
Dec 30, 2011, 2:34:31 PM12/30/11
to
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 04:35:12 -0600, in message <hl4rf7p4dru4nh16s...@4ax.com>
Randy wrote:
> Fri, 30 Dec 2011 00:06:25 -0600, in article
> <4efd54fd$0$11159$882e...@usenet-news.net>,
> "Robert Miles <mil...@Usenet-News.net>" wrote:
>
> >On 12/23/2011 5:02 AM, Randy wrote:
> >>... I would like to see a group of coders from this group organize and
> >> develop Thunderbird's newsreader.
> >
> >I've already been thinking of that, but have not yet gone far
> >enough to tell if I would need to learn at least one more
> >computer language first.
>
>
> http://mzl.la/udKw1f
For developing TB, one would also want to learn XUL and JavaScript.
Randy wrote:
> Fri, 30 Dec 2011 00:06:25 -0600, in article
> <4efd54fd$0$11159$882e...@usenet-news.net>,
> "Robert Miles <mil...@Usenet-News.net>" wrote:
>
> >On 12/23/2011 5:02 AM, Randy wrote:
> >>... I would like to see a group of coders from this group organize and
> >> develop Thunderbird's newsreader.
> >
> >I've already been thinking of that, but have not yet gone far
> >enough to tell if I would need to learn at least one more
> >computer language first.
>
>
> http://mzl.la/udKw1f
http://tinyurl.com/ydnly96
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Ralph Fox
Dec 30, 2011, 2:46:01 PM12/30/11
to
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 10:47:14 -0800, in message <s10sf71thr9bpn4oq...@4ax.com>
Geoff wrote:
> Interesting. I know VS6 simply refuses to install on Win7. I didn't
> know that was the reason.
IME: VS6 installs on Win7; but the service packs for VS6 do not.
Geoff wrote:
> Interesting. I know VS6 simply refuses to install on Win7. I didn't
> know that was the reason.
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Geoff
Dec 30, 2011, 3:15:39 PM12/30/11
to
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 08:46:01 +1300, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>
wrote:
I had to install it on the Windows Virtual PC, I'm on Win7/64 Pro and
it simply refused to install there.
wrote:
it simply refused to install there.
Cindy Ross
Dec 30, 2011, 5:29:48 PM12/30/11
to
>> It's just a wish; this is the right season for wishes, right? :-)
>> The bottom line is that of course I cannot say if it would ever
>> realistically happen, probably not.
>>
>> (By the way, one reason that I chimed in with my wish was that I have
>> heard it said in other threads in the past that there isn't really any
>> need for an open source Agent, as there would be no developers to create
>> enhancements for it, if one assumes that that any potential developers
>> are likely already tied up working on existing open source newsreaders.
>> But I don't think that's necessarily the case.)
>
>
>Regarding those potential developers who are not tied up on existing
>projects. Let's put them into two categories:
>
>A. Those who want to enhance Agent.
>
>B. Those who are just curious how Mark implemented things.
>
>
>IMO in the 50+ months since Agent development has slowed, if there
>were enough potential developers in category 'A' then they could
>have already forked Pan, made it into a functional clone of Agent,
>and be enhancing it.
Okay. I guess I'm just unusual then. Personally, I would be more
>> The bottom line is that of course I cannot say if it would ever
>> realistically happen, probably not.
>>
>> (By the way, one reason that I chimed in with my wish was that I have
>> heard it said in other threads in the past that there isn't really any
>> need for an open source Agent, as there would be no developers to create
>> enhancements for it, if one assumes that that any potential developers
>> are likely already tied up working on existing open source newsreaders.
>> But I don't think that's necessarily the case.)
>
>
>Regarding those potential developers who are not tied up on existing
>projects. Let's put them into two categories:
>
>A. Those who want to enhance Agent.
>
>B. Those who are just curious how Mark implemented things.
>
>
>IMO in the 50+ months since Agent development has slowed, if there
>were enough potential developers in category 'A' then they could
>have already forked Pan, made it into a functional clone of Agent,
>and be enhancing it.
motivated if the code already had everything Agent does and could just
get started on cool enhancements to it, rathern than to be starting with
adding features already in Agent into Pan.
But looking at the screenshots on Pan's web site, I sure do see a lot of
obvious similarities, so maybe there's not as much missing as I would
have guessed. I'll have to look closer at it some time...
Cindy Ross
Dec 30, 2011, 5:34:47 PM12/30/11
to
>Missing MFC and Platform SDK.
Ah, MFC. I could see how that would be a severe limitation if one is
dealing with MFC dependent code. (I have never used MFC myself...)
Cindy Ross
Dec 30, 2011, 5:36:37 PM12/30/11
to
>> Maybe I'll try the VS10 free trial.
>1. The section for compiling C instead of C++ is not included in the
>free trial version.
Oh, that is a bummer then. VS 2005 Express can definitely do C.
>free trial version.
>2. The free trial version is somewhat limited in how big a data space
>the program you're compiling can have.
Geoff
Dec 30, 2011, 6:28:27 PM12/30/11
to
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 17:36:37 -0500, Cindy Ross <ro...@us.ibm.com>
wrote:
Eh? Trial version? I suppose so. But why deal with the trial versions
unless you can't use the Express version.
There is nothing wrong with VC++ 2010 Express's C compiler. The only
limitation is it won't target the 64 bit processors. It also doesn't
support ATL and MFC.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hs24szh9.aspx
wrote:
unless you can't use the Express version.
There is nothing wrong with VC++ 2010 Express's C compiler. The only
limitation is it won't target the 64 bit processors. It also doesn't
support ATL and MFC.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hs24szh9.aspx
Message has been deleted
Robert Miles
Dec 30, 2011, 7:55:13 PM12/30/11
to
saying that the C compiler section was missing. No processor selected.
But it's hard to tell if its instructions had problems and some other
method might find the C compiler.
The free trial version I found WAS the Express version.
Are you saying that some other 2010 Express version has a usable C
compiler? If so, which one?
Robert Miles
Dec 30, 2011, 8:34:17 PM12/30/11
to
On 12/30/2011 4:35 AM, Randy wrote:
> Fri, 30 Dec 2011 00:06:25 -0600, in article
> <4efd54fd$0$11159$882e...@usenet-news.net>,
> "Robert Miles<mil...@Usenet-News.net>" wrote:
>
>> On 12/23/2011 5:02 AM, Randy wrote:
>>> ... I would like to see a group of coders from this group organize and
>>> develop Thunderbird's newsreader.
>>
>> I've already been thinking of that, but have not yet gone far
>> enough to tell if I would need to learn at least one more
>> computer language first.
>
>
> http://mzl.la/udKw1f
Looks like I'll Have to download the software to see if
> Fri, 30 Dec 2011 00:06:25 -0600, in article
> <4efd54fd$0$11159$882e...@usenet-news.net>,
> "Robert Miles<mil...@Usenet-News.net>" wrote:
>
>> On 12/23/2011 5:02 AM, Randy wrote:
>>> ... I would like to see a group of coders from this group organize and
>>> develop Thunderbird's newsreader.
>>
>> I've already been thinking of that, but have not yet gone far
>> enough to tell if I would need to learn at least one more
>> computer language first.
>
>
> http://mzl.la/udKw1f
I need to learn any more computer languages first, then.
I've never used python before.
Working under 64-bit Windows Vista and Windows 7 only.
Robert Miles
Dec 30, 2011, 8:40:31 PM12/30/11
to
Robert Miles
Geoff
Dec 30, 2011, 10:01:51 PM12/30/11
to
http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/en-us/products/2010-editions/visual-cpp-express
I don't know if they've changed it. I did it last August and used it
to build a C-language Windows DLL converted from VC6 without problems.
I know of several GPL projects that are built with VC Express.
Stephen Wolstenholme
Dec 31, 2011, 7:09:03 AM12/31/11
to
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 17:34:47 -0500, Cindy Ross <ro...@us.ibm.com>
wrote:
>>Missing MFC and Platform SDK.
>
>Ah, MFC. I could see how that would be a severe limitation if one is
>dealing with MFC dependent code. (I have never used MFC myself...)
I can't think of anything in MFC that is a limitation. I have used MFC
ever since it was invented and I am not likely to change my ways now.
wrote:
>>Missing MFC and Platform SDK.
>
>Ah, MFC. I could see how that would be a severe limitation if one is
>dealing with MFC dependent code. (I have never used MFC myself...)
ever since it was invented and I am not likely to change my ways now.
h...@h-gee.co.uk
Dec 31, 2011, 1:44:35 PM12/31/11
to
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:09:03 +0000, Stephen Wolstenholme <st...@npsl1.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 17:34:47 -0500, Cindy Ross <ro...@us.ibm.com>
> wrote:
>
> >>Missing MFC and Platform SDK.
> >
> >Ah, MFC. I could see how that would be a severe limitation if one is
> >dealing with MFC dependent code. (I have never used MFC myself...)
>
> I can't think of anything in MFC that is a limitation. I have used MFC
> ever since it was invented and I am not likely to change my ways now.
>
> Steve
Are we talking about alternatives in general or specific.
> On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 17:34:47 -0500, Cindy Ross <ro...@us.ibm.com>
> wrote:
>
> >>Missing MFC and Platform SDK.
> >
> >Ah, MFC. I could see how that would be a severe limitation if one is
> >dealing with MFC dependent code. (I have never used MFC myself...)
>
> I can't think of anything in MFC that is a limitation. I have used MFC
> ever since it was invented and I am not likely to change my ways now.
>
> Steve
T-Bird cannot decode Yenc coded files so it's pretty useless for binary groups.
Can't get T-Bird to accept more than 2 email account on the same domain but with different
user names and email addresses unless I suddenly can't understand my native tongue of
English.
Last time I tried to play with T-Bird as a news reader it wouldn't leave the header but
kept insisting showing the picture on a binary photo group.
Tried downloading a binary with 18 sections and it wouldn't decode and needed another
program to handle this - too much hassle for news for me.
Sir Hugh of Bognor
--
I used to be an Egotistical Megalomaniac - but now I'm just perfect!
Hugh Gundersen
h...@h-gee.co.uk
Get AVG Internet Protection
AVG Reseller <sa...@bognor-bill.com>
discounted software - renewals and upgrades
Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK
Ralph Fox
Dec 31, 2011, 6:05:18 PM12/31/11
to
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 23:30:32 -0800, in message <8upqf71a9logbjtuc...@4ax.com>
Geoff wrote:
> >I really would like to see actual solid evidence of the source data.
> >Otherwise, any comparison may be GIGO ("Garbage In, Garbage Out").
>
> The only references I have ever seen was "estimated losses". This is
> the bean counters counting the beans they've never seen.
>
> I don't know how they can claim to be able to separate the losses to
> piracy vs the noise of seasonal/economical variation of sales.
>
> 68.25 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot. :)
I think there is bogus statistics from both sides of the debate.
What each side says seems to come from which "buttons" they want
to push, not from any real objective data.
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Geoff wrote:
> >I really would like to see actual solid evidence of the source data.
> >Otherwise, any comparison may be GIGO ("Garbage In, Garbage Out").
>
> The only references I have ever seen was "estimated losses". This is
> the bean counters counting the beans they've never seen.
>
> I don't know how they can claim to be able to separate the losses to
> piracy vs the noise of seasonal/economical variation of sales.
>
> 68.25 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot. :)
I think there is bogus statistics from both sides of the debate.
What each side says seems to come from which "buttons" they want
to push, not from any real objective data.
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Ralph Fox
Dec 31, 2011, 6:56:23 PM12/31/11
to
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:09:03 +0000, in message <6cutf7dp5c4tv4g6d...@4ax.com>
Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 17:34:47 -0500, Cindy Ross <ro...@us.ibm.com>
> wrote:
>
> >>Missing MFC and Platform SDK.
> >
> >Ah, MFC. I could see how that would be a severe limitation if one is
> >dealing with MFC dependent code. (I have never used MFC myself...)
>
> I can't think of anything in MFC that is a limitation.
Portability? Let's say I need my app to run on a supercomputer. Go
Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 17:34:47 -0500, Cindy Ross <ro...@us.ibm.com>
> wrote:
>
> >>Missing MFC and Platform SDK.
> >
> >Ah, MFC. I could see how that would be a severe limitation if one is
> >dealing with MFC dependent code. (I have never used MFC myself...)
>
> I can't think of anything in MFC that is a limitation.
here <http://i.top500.org/treemap> and select Stats Type = "Operating
system Family". Although, there are guides to porting apps by
converting MFC to wxWidgets or Qt.
Anyways, ISTM the previous poster was not describing MFC as a limitation.
Rather, the *lack* of MFC was a limitation in the free version of VS.
--
Kind regards
Ralph
drek
Dec 31, 2011, 7:33:58 PM12/31/11
to
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 19:13:55 -0500, Arno Martens <sne...@sympatico.ca>
wrote: <jdlk4b$l7k$1...@news.datemas.de>:
>©Thu, 29 Dec 2011 16:16:11 -0800, drek <no...@none.invalid>, wrote:
>>On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 09:49:24 -0500, Arno Martens <sne...@sympatico.ca>
>>wrote: <jdfa9n$jiq$1...@news.datemas.de>:
>>>Over the weekend I talked with someone about eMail and told him that I
>>>had been using Agent for 14 years although it was designed for usenet,
>>>which is supposed to be dying.
>>>
>>If text Usenet still enjoys input from worthwhile contributors like Mary
>>Shafer (NASA) on even an occasional basis I am not aware of it. This
>>group is worth taking time away from everything else only because of
>>people like Ralph and others who actually know what they are talking
>>about. IOW there is actually something to be learned about the subject
>>and in this case there probably isn't a published alternative.
>
>
>Yes, there are the usual 6 -7 known suspects that are supportive and
>allow one to learn something. If repeated often enough, sometime it even
>sinks in.
>
A long time ago I got into the habit of searching this group on Google
first and find it would be difficult to come up with a question that has
not already been answered here.
>>>I don't watch movies but maybe for SWMBO's sake I should find a tutorial
>>>on nzb and study up on it.
>>>;->)
>>It could make you a hero! I rarely take time for a movie in or out of a
>>theatre but I regret putting off nzb as long as I did.
,snip>
>
>That sounds good but most likely will never happen.
Guess I wouldn't make much of a salesman, can't even give stuff away.:)
>Before that I want to learn about CAD but have already problems getting
>my head around the use (not the idea) of layers.
>
>I am a visual learner and really should go to night school classes for
>it but, there is always something else that crops up and is more
>important. I also have not seen any good tutorials for CAD.
>
My limited experience with it presented a learning curve that was very
nearly straight up. Especially in the beginning it seems like you need
to know everything before you can do anything and that didn't go away
quickly. Aside from having someone around to ask questions the main
requirement was putting in the hours. Like anything else it gets easier,
it just takes longer for that to happen.
wrote: <jdlk4b$l7k$1...@news.datemas.de>:
>©Thu, 29 Dec 2011 16:16:11 -0800, drek <no...@none.invalid>, wrote:
>>On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 09:49:24 -0500, Arno Martens <sne...@sympatico.ca>
>>wrote: <jdfa9n$jiq$1...@news.datemas.de>:
>>>Over the weekend I talked with someone about eMail and told him that I
>>>had been using Agent for 14 years although it was designed for usenet,
>>>which is supposed to be dying.
>>>
>>If text Usenet still enjoys input from worthwhile contributors like Mary
>>Shafer (NASA) on even an occasional basis I am not aware of it. This
>>group is worth taking time away from everything else only because of
>>people like Ralph and others who actually know what they are talking
>>about. IOW there is actually something to be learned about the subject
>>and in this case there probably isn't a published alternative.
>
>
>Yes, there are the usual 6 -7 known suspects that are supportive and
>allow one to learn something. If repeated often enough, sometime it even
>sinks in.
>
A long time ago I got into the habit of searching this group on Google
first and find it would be difficult to come up with a question that has
not already been answered here.
>>>I don't watch movies but maybe for SWMBO's sake I should find a tutorial
>>>on nzb and study up on it.
>>>;->)
>>It could make you a hero! I rarely take time for a movie in or out of a
>>theatre but I regret putting off nzb as long as I did.
,snip>
>
>That sounds good but most likely will never happen.
Guess I wouldn't make much of a salesman, can't even give stuff away.:)
>Before that I want to learn about CAD but have already problems getting
>my head around the use (not the idea) of layers.
>
>I am a visual learner and really should go to night school classes for
>it but, there is always something else that crops up and is more
>important. I also have not seen any good tutorials for CAD.
>
My limited experience with it presented a learning curve that was very
nearly straight up. Especially in the beginning it seems like you need
to know everything before you can do anything and that didn't go away
quickly. Aside from having someone around to ask questions the main
requirement was putting in the hours. Like anything else it gets easier,
it just takes longer for that to happen.
Ralph Fox
Dec 31, 2011, 10:12:51 PM12/31/11
to
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 17:29:48 -0500, in message <gmdsf7trivn1aj9q6...@4ax.com>
Cindy Ross wrote:
> Okay. I guess I'm just unusual then. Personally, I would be more
> motivated if the code already had everything Agent does and could just
> get started on cool enhancements to it, rathern than to be starting with
> adding features already in Agent into Pan.
I would want to look at both sets of code, and work out how
Cindy Ross wrote:
> Okay. I guess I'm just unusual then. Personally, I would be more
> motivated if the code already had everything Agent does and could just
> get started on cool enhancements to it, rathern than to be starting with
> adding features already in Agent into Pan.
much code refactoring would be needed for each set before I
could start adding those cool features.
> But looking at the screenshots on Pan's web site, I sure do see a lot of
> obvious similarities, so maybe there's not as much missing as I would
> have guessed. I'll have to look closer at it some time...
As to how Pan and Agent compare in internal design, I don't know.
That is the kind of thing which could make some "cool enhancement"
take either a week or half a year.
--
Kind regards
Ralph
drek
Jan 1, 2012, 2:04:05 AM1/1/12
to
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 16:14:57 +1300, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote:
<L1aLq.150908$ql3.1...@en-nntp-12.dc1.easynews.com>:
>On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 16:40:15 -0800, in message <r7mpf71m5n5lrusef...@4ax.com>
>drek wrote:
>
>> Back to the original question though if binaries and file sharing are
>> ruled out what alternative is there to Agent? Probably none because
>> there's nothing else that can do something to text that Agent can't.
>
>? Agent can't display or post text which Unicode programs can
> (Thunderbird, for example).
>
Right you've pointed that out before. I don't remember examples of it
being an obstacle to any practical use in groups so it slips my mind.
>? Here is an example. You will see question marks in Agent.
> You will see real text in Thunderbird and in Google groups.
>
It is readable in Tbird. It could be the hanger is a worm-turned hangee
but if Lewis won't define terms it may be impossible to say. |-o
Thx,
<L1aLq.150908$ql3.1...@en-nntp-12.dc1.easynews.com>:
>On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 16:40:15 -0800, in message <r7mpf71m5n5lrusef...@4ax.com>
>drek wrote:
>
>> Back to the original question though if binaries and file sharing are
>> ruled out what alternative is there to Agent? Probably none because
>> there's nothing else that can do something to text that Agent can't.
>
>? Agent can't display or post text which Unicode programs can
> (Thunderbird, for example).
>
Right you've pointed that out before. I don't remember examples of it
being an obstacle to any practical use in groups so it slips my mind.
>? Here is an example. You will see question marks in Agent.
> You will see real text in Thunderbird and in Google groups.
>
It is readable in Tbird. It could be the hanger is a worm-turned hangee
but if Lewis won't define terms it may be impossible to say. |-o
Thx,
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