Upgrading from V2.0
What-...@spamfreeisp.edu
- Hopefully reducing the long times to delete binaries
- Hopefully reducing the long times to save binaries
- Multiple connections
- Something to do with older versions throwing away chunks of bad
binaries. The newer versions attempt recovery.
- the idea that Agent will do its best to recover things like lost
connections, server closure, bad data when saving binaries, etc
without my personal intervention.
- Pre-emptive intervention. I.e. I can be downloading huge binaries
and tell Agent to stop and get another post and then resume the
download.
Hmmm... can't think of anything else. I'm quite happy with the way
2.00 handles text posts, displays everything, etc. IOW I don't want to
be upset by any changes in the rest of how it works. Especially as
when I changed to 2.00 Agent pulled a nasty by defaulting to "Purge
read messages" resulting in wiping out all my accumulated wisdom.
Fortunately I had backups. I wouldn't like anything similar to happen
in the change to 4.2.
I've heard about this "desk" idea. Sounds annoying. Can't I just keep
all folders in one desk so it imitates 2.00?
Agent is my repository of all my brilliant posts since 1996. I have
groups with over 22,000 posts. I don't plan on changing this concept
and want all those posts carried into the 4.2 version. Of course I'll
back up 2.00 and the data directories but how does 4.2's install work
with regard to using the parameters from 2.00. IOW if I copy the Agent
directory and the data directories from C: to E: (i.e. E: is the
backup) will the 4.2 install only find the copies on C:?
The Agent site is really bad. You'd think they'd explain exactly how
this upgrade will occur but the help file seems to be a help file for
4.2 and the FAQ is hardly "helpful" in explaining the detail.
BTW I've been cleaning out the old Agent directories. Does anyone know
what the \Agent\Temp directory is? Looks like old binaries. Can I
delete it? Also is the \Agent\All_Cod directory necessary for 2.00? It
hasn't changed since 2002. There's also an executable, unwise.exe, in
the \Agent directory dated 2001. Anyone know what this does?
TIA
Ogden Johnson III
[Move from 2.0 to 4.2 stuff snipped, because I'm still on 1.93.
>BTW I've been cleaning out the old Agent directories. Does anyone know
>what the \Agent\Temp directory is? Looks like old binaries. Can I
>delete it?
Yes. Rule of thumb from the dos days, any temp directory is used
by programs for transient purposes; stash files during installs,
while playing online stuff, etc. Theoretically, the program
deletes the temp files when it has done its work. A couple times
a year I go through my directories and delete files that have
accumulated in various *\temp directories where programs failed
to do so. (I don't delete the directories, they take up no room,
and if a program needs to use it again, it will just recreate it.
I hate to make programs do unnecessary work, it is hard enough to
make them do what I want them to do so I don't want to confuse
them.)
>Also is the \Agent\All_Cod directory necessary for 2.00? It
>hasn't changed since 2002.
I guarantee that two days after you delete the files in that
\All_Cod directory, you will get a post/email with a weird
character set that requires you to install one of those contained
in those cod files.
>There's also an executable, unwise.exe, in
>the \Agent directory dated 2001. Anyone know what this does?
Wise.exe is the install program Agent used to install itself.
Unwise.exe is, ta-da, the uninstall program Agent would use to
uninstall itself.
It will go away/be replaced when you do your upgrade. (Dunno if
Agent still uses wise.exe/unwise.exe or not.)
--
OJ III
Carroll Robbins
<ghv9d397cbg7jb2ho...@4ax.com> on Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:35:29
GMT:
>I'm about to splurge and upgrade to V4.2 for the following reasons:
>
>- Hopefully reducing the long times to delete binaries
This has not changed. I assume you mean deleting messages with binary
attachments. The most common cause of long deletion times is deleting to
the Trash which requires moving the messages. Unless you require moving
them to the Trash, just delete them permanently which should happen
quickly.
>- Hopefully reducing the long times to save binaries
In Agent 4.2 attachments can be saved automatically in the background.
>- Multiple connections
Yes, in Agent 2 you could have a normal connection and a priority
connection. In Agent 4.2 you can have multiple connections for each server
and reserve multiple connections for priority tasks.
>- Something to do with older versions throwing away chunks of bad
>binaries. The newer versions attempt recovery.
For a yenc encoded binary, Agent 2 would ignore any data after the first
error. Agent 4.2 can decode and save all good sections.
>- the idea that Agent will do its best to recover things like lost
>connections, server closure, bad data when saving binaries, etc
>without my personal intervention.
Agent 4.2 can automatically retry for lost and closed connections. You can
have Agent 4.2 automatically save messages with decoding errors. I prefer
to review such messages.
>- Pre-emptive intervention. I.e. I can be downloading huge binaries
>and tell Agent to stop and get another post and then resume the
>download.
Normally you don't want Agent to stop and there is no need to. In Agent 2
you can use the priority connection to get a message while the normal
download continues. In Agent 4.2 there is a Task Manager with a list of
tasks where you can adjust the task order. You can have a new task
initiated at the top of the list. There is no need to manually stop, pause,
or resume tasks to get a specific message quickly. With correct usage this
happens automatically.
>Hmmm... can't think of anything else. I'm quite happy with the way
>2.00 handles text posts, displays everything, etc. IOW I don't want to
>be upset by any changes in the rest of how it works. Especially as
>when I changed to 2.00 Agent pulled a nasty by defaulting to "Purge
>read messages" resulting in wiping out all my accumulated wisdom.
>Fortunately I had backups. I wouldn't like anything similar to happen
>in the change to 4.2.
There are many changes. Don't expect Agent 4.2 to look or act the same as
Agent 2. You will need to relearn how to do things. Agent 4.2 Help has
sections for upgraders from earlier versions. To avoid problems you should
review all the setting before using Agent 4.2 and adjust them. The defaults
for the new settings aren't always appropriate.
I didn't have your problem when I upgraded to Agent 2. Agent 4.2 will
retain options and properties that are still relevant.
>I've heard about this "desk" idea. Sounds annoying. Can't I just keep
>all folders in one desk so it imitates 2.00?
All folders are always in the All Folders Desk. You can set Agent 4.2 to
only display one desk. You can delete all desks except the All Folders
desk. I use multiple desks for multiple subscription lists, I have one desk
for newsgroups I check multiple times per day, another for newsgroups I
check daily, another for email, several for archived messages, one for
groups I don't check regularly, etc.
>Agent is my repository of all my brilliant posts since 1996. I have
>groups with over 22,000 posts. I don't plan on changing this concept
>and want all those posts carried into the 4.2 version. Of course I'll
>back up 2.00 and the data directories but how does 4.2's install work
>with regard to using the parameters from 2.00. IOW if I copy the Agent
>directory and the data directories from C: to E: (i.e. E: is the
>backup) will the 4.2 install only find the copies on C:?
Upgrading the Agent program and the databases are different processes. Once
the databases are upgraded they can't be used with Agent 2.
The install program will normally automatically find your Agent 2 program
on the C drive and offer to upgrade it. It will display the location and
allow you to change it. The install program doesn't upgrade your databases,
that is done by Agent 4.2 when you run it for each database. The optional
backup performed by the installer is for program files, not database files
in the data directory.
The default location of Agent's database has changed, it is no longer in
the Program Files tree. The new location depends on your Operating System
but is generally in your user data tree. See Agent 4.2 Help for details.
Agent may offer to move your database from the old default location to the
new default location. Agent won't automatically find non default data
directories.
You can still start Agent with a shortcut's "Start In" property to specify
the data directory location but it's better to use the new option in the
"Target" property.
You can continue to run Agent with multiple data directories. You can
combine some data directories. It's easier if you decide which ones to
combine before using them after the upgrade. See Help for details.
I have a folder with over 200,000 text messages that is less than 1 GByte.
With modern versions of Windows the maximum size of individual data files
is doubled to 8 GByte. The hash collision bug still exists and can cause
misthreading.
>The Agent site is really bad. You'd think they'd explain exactly how
>this upgrade will occur but the help file seems to be a help file for
>4.2 and the FAQ is hardly "helpful" in explaining the detail.
The Agent website and the Agent Help file are two different things. You can
download the Agent 4.2 help file from the website.
>BTW I've been cleaning out the old Agent directories. Does anyone know
>what the \Agent\Temp directory is? Looks like old binaries. Can I
>delete it? Also is the \Agent\All_Cod directory necessary for 2.00? It
>hasn't changed since 2002. There's also an executable, unwise.exe, in
>the \Agent directory dated 2001. Anyone know what this does?
The \Agent\Temp directory would have been created by you, possibly for use
by Agent for launching attachments. You should check you settings at "Group
-> (Default) Properties -> Attachment Folders -> Temporary folder for
launching attached files" before deleting it.
The All_Cod directory is part of the Agent 2 installation. It is not used
by Agent 4.2 which stores all *.cod files in the Agent Program directory.
Unwise.exe and install.log are used to uninstall Agent from the Control
Panel.
If you want to keep your installation clean you can delete the files in the
Agent program directory and the All_Cod directory before installing Agent
4.2.
For more tips and suggestions you need to report your OS, internet
connection speed, news servers, size of binaries, text usage, email usage,
etc.
Once again, Agent 4.2 is a huge change from Agent 2. Much more than the
change from Agent 1.0 to Agent 2. Don't expect to just start using Agent
4.2 and learn new stuff as you go along.
>TIA
You're welcome.
--
Carroll Robbins
What-...@spamfreeisp.edu
Thanks for the long and detailed reply...
>What-...@SpamFreeIsp.edu wrote in
><ghv9d397cbg7jb2ho...@4ax.com> on Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:35:29
>GMT:
>>I'm about to splurge and upgrade to V4.2 for the following reasons:
>>- Hopefully reducing the long times to delete binaries
>This has not changed. I assume you mean deleting messages with binary
>attachments. The most common cause of long deletion times is deleting to
>the Trash which requires moving the messages. Unless you require moving
>them to the Trash, just delete them permanently which should happen
>quickly.
This hasn't changed???????? Do you realize just how long this takes?
Let's say I have a typical RAR of a DVD (4.6 gig). That might be 650
parts with 20 sections to each part, say 13,000 sections. I presume
that Agent, which I think uses or used an indexed file, just sets the
delete flag in the deleted record and the record is actually flushed
when compacting the file. Presuming that each section is one record
that's 13,000 reads and rewrites, a number that can be done in a few
seconds even with slow drives and a slow machine (relatively
speaking). With 2.0 at present I can start the delete and go and have
a cup of coffee. When I return it's still not finished!
Stupid as it might be, I have the sneaking suspicion that Agent
actually physically rewrites the whole database after the removal of
each section. OTOH there's very little HD activity during the delete
process. The light only comes on at the end. OTOH maybe that's windows
keeping it in memory.
Oh, and no, I don't move them to the Trash. I really would like to set
this option differently for binaries and text, Trash for text, direct
delete for binaries, but currently I have it set to directly delete
all.
>>- Hopefully reducing the long times to save binaries
>In Agent 4.2 attachments can be saved automatically in the background.
So you can with 2.0 but it just adds time to the download.
>>- Multiple connections
>Yes, in Agent 2 you could have a normal connection and a priority
>connection. In Agent 4.2 you can have multiple connections for each server
>and reserve multiple connections for priority tasks.
You know, now that you point this out I can say I've noticed that. I
can set up a download (say a DVD) and then go through the other binary
groups and look at various jpg's and they won't wait for the DVD to
finish (forever). There seems to be a difference if I hit enter, or L,
or A and if the long download is getting text messages, I just wait.
Of course the latter might be the server, I suppose.
I just thought this was an unadvertised feature. Is there an option
somewhere? Nothing in help under "connections" or "priority".
>>- Something to do with older versions throwing away chunks of bad
>>binaries. The newer versions attempt recovery.
>For a yenc encoded binary, Agent 2 would ignore any data after the first
>error. Agent 4.2 can decode and save all good sections.
Excellent!
>>- the idea that Agent will do its best to recover things like lost
>>connections, server closure, bad data when saving binaries, etc
>>without my personal intervention.
>Agent 4.2 can automatically retry for lost and closed connections. You can
>have Agent 4.2 automatically save messages with decoding errors. I prefer
>to review such messages.
Excellent! You don't know how frustrating it is to set Agent to save a
DVD, watch it start, go for coffee, and return 30 minutes later to
find it waiting for a response to a coding error problem on part#4!
Grrrr!
Now if you could also fix the problem where I spend a couple of hours
downloading a video only to find that it has one damaged RAR part (out
of hundreds) to which WinRar flippantly says "Oh, well" and tosses the
whole video. I don't care if a couple of minutes of the video are
screwed up! I don't care if there's a crc error or a checksum error!
If you can give me 95% of the image that's fine.
>>- Pre-emptive intervention. I.e. I can be downloading huge binaries
>>and tell Agent to stop and get another post and then resume the
>>download.
>Normally you don't want Agent to stop and there is no need to. In Agent 2
>you can use the priority connection to get a message while the normal
>download continues. In Agent 4.2 there is a Task Manager with a list of
>tasks where you can adjust the task order. You can have a new task
>initiated at the top of the list. There is no need to manually stop, pause,
>or resume tasks to get a specific message quickly. With correct usage this
>happens automatically.
OK, that's really what I meant. I hope it won't allow me to go above 4
connections though. That's the verizon limit and I understand they'll
cut off your fingers without warning if you try <g>.
>>Hmmm... can't think of anything else. I'm quite happy with the way
>>2.00 handles text posts, displays everything, etc. IOW I don't want to
>>be upset by any changes in the rest of how it works. Especially as
>>when I changed to 2.00 Agent pulled a nasty by defaulting to "Purge
>>read messages" resulting in wiping out all my accumulated wisdom.
>>Fortunately I had backups. I wouldn't like anything similar to happen
>>in the change to 4.2.
>There are many changes. Don't expect Agent 4.2 to look or act the same as
>Agent 2. You will need to relearn how to do things. Agent 4.2 Help has
>sections for upgraders from earlier versions. To avoid problems you should
>review all the setting before using Agent 4.2 and adjust them. The defaults
>for the new settings aren't always appropriate.
This sounds really bad! You're making me think the change isn't worth
while.
>I didn't have your problem when I upgraded to Agent 2. Agent 4.2 will
>retain options and properties that are still relevant.
>>I've heard about this "desk" idea. Sounds annoying. Can't I just keep
>>all folders in one desk so it imitates 2.00?
>All folders are always in the All Folders Desk. You can set Agent 4.2 to
>only display one desk. You can delete all desks except the All Folders
>desk. I use multiple desks for multiple subscription lists, I have one desk
>for newsgroups I check multiple times per day, another for newsgroups I
>check daily, another for email, several for archived messages, one for
>groups I don't check regularly, etc.
Like spam, I find it easier to just bypass (and delete in the case of
spam) the items I don't want.
>>Agent is my repository of all my brilliant posts since 1996. I have
>>groups with over 22,000 posts. I don't plan on changing this concept
>>and want all those posts carried into the 4.2 version. Of course I'll
>>back up 2.00 and the data directories but how does 4.2's install work
>>with regard to using the parameters from 2.00. IOW if I copy the Agent
>>directory and the data directories from C: to E: (i.e. E: is the
>>backup) will the 4.2 install only find the copies on C:?
>Upgrading the Agent program and the databases are different processes. Once
>the databases are upgraded they can't be used with Agent 2.
I understood this.
>The install program will normally automatically find your Agent 2 program
>on the C drive and offer to upgrade it. It will display the location and
>allow you to change it. The install program doesn't upgrade your databases,
>that is done by Agent 4.2 when you run it for each database. The optional
>backup performed by the installer is for program files, not database files
>in the data directory.
That's good to know.
>The default location of Agent's database has changed, it is no longer in
>the Program Files tree. The new location depends on your Operating System
>but is generally in your user data tree. See Agent 4.2 Help for details.
>Agent may offer to move your database from the old default location to the
>new default location. Agent won't automatically find non default data
>directories.
Hmmm! I'm not sure I know what you're talking about here. Agent 2.0
(program) is in a directory C:\Agent. My verizon data files are in
C:\AgentVerizon, and my astraweb data files are in C:\AgentAstraweb.
I'd love to look at Agent 4.2's help files but wouldn't that require
the installation of 4.2 beforehand? And it's exactly the organization
for the installation I want to look up. It seems to be a circular
problem. I can't look at the help without upgrading and I can't
upgrade without looking at the help.
Program files and user data (I presume you mean "My Documents") are
some new fangled thing dreamed up by Bill to fit us all into his world
domination plan, and in the case of My-this-or-that, keep us speaking
baby talk. I've given in on program files but steadfastly still resist
his attempts to control my data.
>You can still start Agent with a shortcut's "Start In" property to specify
>the data directory location but it's better to use the new option in the
>"Target" property.
>You can continue to run Agent with multiple data directories. You can
>combine some data directories. It's easier if you decide which ones to
>combine before using them after the upgrade. See Help for details.
I'd love to.
>I have a folder with over 200,000 text messages that is less than 1 GByte.
>With modern versions of Windows the maximum size of individual data files
>is doubled to 8 GByte. The hash collision bug still exists and can cause
>misthreading.
I don't seem to have encountered the hash collision bug. I did,
however think that NTFS would handle files a lot bigger than 8 gig,
after all, isn't that Sony Blue <something or other> DVD the size of
100 regular DVD's--something like that?
>>The Agent site is really bad. You'd think they'd explain exactly how
>>this upgrade will occur but the help file seems to be a help file for
>>4.2 and the FAQ is hardly "helpful" in explaining the detail.
>The Agent website and the Agent Help file are two different things. You can
>download the Agent 4.2 help file from the website.
But you require 4.2 to view it?...........
>>BTW I've been cleaning out the old Agent directories. Does anyone know
>>what the \Agent\Temp directory is? Looks like old binaries. Can I
>>delete it? Also is the \Agent\All_Cod directory necessary for 2.00? It
>>hasn't changed since 2002. There's also an executable, unwise.exe, in
>>the \Agent directory dated 2001. Anyone know what this does?
>The \Agent\Temp directory would have been created by you, possibly for use
>by Agent for launching attachments. You should check you settings at "Group
>-> (Default) Properties -> Attachment Folders -> Temporary folder for
>launching attached files" before deleting it.
Bingo! There's a lot of garbage in it though. I'll delete the contents
and see if Agent still runs.
>The All_Cod directory is part of the Agent 2 installation. It is not used
>by Agent 4.2 which stores all *.cod files in the Agent Program directory.
>Unwise.exe and install.log are used to uninstall Agent from the Control
>Panel.
Aha! I wondered how the control panel learnt about Agent's presence.
>If you want to keep your installation clean you can delete the files in the
>Agent program directory and the All_Cod directory before installing Agent
>4.2.
Er, yeah but don't they need the licence #.
>For more tips and suggestions you need to report your OS, internet
>connection speed, news servers, size of binaries, text usage, email usage,
>etc.
(form letter perhaps<g>)
>Once again, Agent 4.2 is a huge change from Agent 2. Much more than the
>change from Agent 1.0 to Agent 2. Don't expect to just start using Agent
>4.2 and learn new stuff as you go along.
Hmmm, maybe I could continue to use 2.00 for text and use 4.2 for
binaries. That's actually an excellent idea. Do you see anything wrong
with it? What would happen if I used both at the same time? On the
same NG?
Carroll Robbins
<ci7cd39bmggmbqham...@4ax.com> on Thu, 30 Aug 2007 02:53:53
GMT:
>Carroll Robbins <carroll...@ioa.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>Thanks for the long and detailed reply...
>
>>What-...@SpamFreeIsp.edu wrote in
>><ghv9d397cbg7jb2ho...@4ax.com> on Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:35:29
>>GMT:
>
>>>I'm about to splurge and upgrade to V4.2 for the following reasons:
>
>>>- Hopefully reducing the long times to delete binaries
>
>>This has not changed. I assume you mean deleting messages with binary
>>attachments. The most common cause of long deletion times is deleting to
>>the Trash which requires moving the messages. Unless you require moving
>>them to the Trash, just delete them permanently which should happen
>>quickly.
>
>This hasn't changed???????? Do you realize just how long this takes?
>Let's say I have a typical RAR of a DVD (4.6 gig). That might be 650
>parts with 20 sections to each part, say 13,000 sections. I presume
>that Agent, which I think uses or used an indexed file, just sets the
>delete flag in the deleted record and the record is actually flushed
>when compacting the file. Presuming that each section is one record
>that's 13,000 reads and rewrites, a number that can be done in a few
>seconds even with slow drives and a slow machine (relatively
>speaking). With 2.0 at present I can start the delete and go and have
>a cup of coffee. When I return it's still not finished!
Something is definitely wrong. As a rough test I imported 9185 messages
(29.8 MBytes) into Agent 2 on a slow computer (500 MHz CPU, heavily
fragmented disk). Deleting 9182 of the messages took less than 1 second,
too quick for me to time accurately.
>Stupid as it might be, I have the sneaking suspicion that Agent
>actually physically rewrites the whole database after the removal of
>each section. OTOH there's very little HD activity during the delete
>process. The light only comes on at the end. OTOH maybe that's windows
>keeping it in memory.
Agent doesn't rewrite the dat file when deleting messages. If you delete
messages at the end of the file Agent will truncate it. Otherwise the
messages can be recovered until the space is overwritten by new messages.
>Oh, and no, I don't move them to the Trash. I really would like to set
>this option differently for binaries and text, Trash for text, direct
>delete for binaries, but currently I have it set to directly delete
>all.
I use different Agent data directories for binary groups and text groups so
I can set the options differently but I set this option on for both.
Shift+Del is a toggle, if Del deletes to Trash then Shift+Del permanently
deletes, if Del permanently deletes then Shift+Del deletes to trash. For
this to work in Agent 2 you need to enable Trash but you can disable the 3
message types.
>>>- Hopefully reducing the long times to save binaries
>
>>In Agent 4.2 attachments can be saved automatically in the background.
>
>So you can with 2.0 but it just adds time to the download.
In Agent 4.2 it doesn't add time to the download which continues while the
attachments are being saved.
>>>- Multiple connections
>
>>Yes, in Agent 2 you could have a normal connection and a priority
>>connection. In Agent 4.2 you can have multiple connections for each server
>>and reserve multiple connections for priority tasks.
>
>You know, now that you point this out I can say I've noticed that. I
>can set up a download (say a DVD) and then go through the other binary
>groups and look at various jpg's and they won't wait for the DVD to
>finish (forever). There seems to be a difference if I hit enter, or L,
>or A and if the long download is getting text messages, I just wait.
>Of course the latter might be the server, I suppose.
>
>I just thought this was an unadvertised feature. Is there an option
>somewhere? Nothing in help under "connections" or "priority".
Go to "Options -> General Preferences -> Online Operation -> General
Settings". There are options: "Enable priority message retrieval" and
"Enable priority attachment retrieval". These enable the use of a second
connection for priority retrieval. Press the Help button on this dialog for
the help on this feature. You have to use "Get Marked Message Bodies" for
your normal messages to use this. Other commands to retrieve messages are
priority retrieval. I had both options enabled so I don't know how it works
with only one enabled.
>>>- Something to do with older versions throwing away chunks of bad
>>>binaries. The newer versions attempt recovery.
>
>>For a yenc encoded binary, Agent 2 would ignore any data after the first
>>error. Agent 4.2 can decode and save all good sections.
>
>Excellent!
>
>>>- the idea that Agent will do its best to recover things like lost
>>>connections, server closure, bad data when saving binaries, etc
>>>without my personal intervention.
>
>>Agent 4.2 can automatically retry for lost and closed connections. You can
>>have Agent 4.2 automatically save messages with decoding errors. I prefer
>>to review such messages.
>
>Excellent! You don't know how frustrating it is to set Agent to save a
>DVD, watch it start, go for coffee, and return 30 minutes later to
>find it waiting for a response to a coding error problem on part#4!
>Grrrr!
I'm on dialup and download about 24 hours/day. When I was using Agent 2.0 I
used a third party utility to keep the downloads going.
>Now if you could also fix the problem where I spend a couple of hours
>downloading a video only to find that it has one damaged RAR part (out
>of hundreds) to which WinRar flippantly says "Oh, well" and tosses the
>whole video. I don't care if a couple of minutes of the video are
>screwed up! I don't care if there's a crc error or a checksum error!
>If you can give me 95% of the image that's fine.
In the WinRAR "Extraction path and options" dialog there is a option to
keep broken files. This is mostly used to allow a preview of the first part
of a video before downloading all the rar files. For many video codecs
viewers like Windows Media Player won't work unless the video file is
undamaged. Other viewers like Media Player Classic can play most damaged
video files.
It's better to use par2 files to repair the rar files or video. Agent 5 is
supposed to automate this. It works easily with QuickPar now.
>>>- Pre-emptive intervention. I.e. I can be downloading huge binaries
>>>and tell Agent to stop and get another post and then resume the
>>>download.
>
>>Normally you don't want Agent to stop and there is no need to. In Agent 2
>>you can use the priority connection to get a message while the normal
>>download continues. In Agent 4.2 there is a Task Manager with a list of
>>tasks where you can adjust the task order. You can have a new task
>>initiated at the top of the list. There is no need to manually stop, pause,
>>or resume tasks to get a specific message quickly. With correct usage this
>>happens automatically.
>
>OK, that's really what I meant. I hope it won't allow me to go above 4
>connections though. That's the verizon limit and I understand they'll
>cut off your fingers without warning if you try <g>.
Agent 4.2 defaults to 10 but you can change it to 4 maximum. There is an
"Automatic Adjust" feature that works with some servers and not others so I
recommend unticking it. This is an example of a setting that needs to be
changed before using Agent 4.2. The limit is for each instance so if you
run multiple instances to access verizon you will need to allocate the 4
connections among them. In general you should use the fewest number of
connections needed to fill your pipe. If verizon doesn't throttle your nntp
connections you should only need 2 or 3 for large binaries.
>>>Hmmm... can't think of anything else. I'm quite happy with the way
>>>2.00 handles text posts, displays everything, etc. IOW I don't want to
>>>be upset by any changes in the rest of how it works. Especially as
>>>when I changed to 2.00 Agent pulled a nasty by defaulting to "Purge
>>>read messages" resulting in wiping out all my accumulated wisdom.
>>>Fortunately I had backups. I wouldn't like anything similar to happen
>>>in the change to 4.2.
>
>>There are many changes. Don't expect Agent 4.2 to look or act the same as
>>Agent 2. You will need to relearn how to do things. Agent 4.2 Help has
>>sections for upgraders from earlier versions. To avoid problems you should
>>review all the setting before using Agent 4.2 and adjust them. The defaults
>>for the new settings aren't always appropriate.
>
>This sounds really bad! You're making me think the change isn't worth
>while.
The upgrade is very worthwhile but the changes that make it worthwhile are
significant. Some users irrationally expected Agent 3.0 to look and work
like Agent 2. If you expect Agent 4.2 to be different, you shouldn't have a
problem learning it. It's actually easier to use. Eg. Folder properties
allow you to specify which file types should be saved automatically.
Schemes allow you to control properties for groups of folders.
>>I didn't have your problem when I upgraded to Agent 2. Agent 4.2 will
>>retain options and properties that are still relevant.
>
>>>I've heard about this "desk" idea. Sounds annoying. Can't I just keep
>>>all folders in one desk so it imitates 2.00?
>
>>All folders are always in the All Folders Desk. You can set Agent 4.2 to
>>only display one desk. You can delete all desks except the All Folders
>>desk. I use multiple desks for multiple subscription lists, I have one desk
>>for newsgroups I check multiple times per day, another for newsgroups I
>>check daily, another for email, several for archived messages, one for
>>groups I don't check regularly, etc.
>
>Like spam, I find it easier to just bypass (and delete in the case of
>spam) the items I don't want.
I don't understand what this applies to. My point was that Agent 4.2 allows
multiple desks but only requires one desk. I find multiple desks useful.
Multiple subscription lists was an oft requested feature.
You're not using the default data directory location so you won't have a
problem with the change. I assume you have a separate agent.ini in each
data directory and start Agent with shortcuts that startin each one. Don't
allow the installer to start Agent. If it does, Agent will create a new
database in the default location. Check the shortcuts after the program
upgrade to be sure they are still correct.
>I'd love to look at Agent 4.2's help files but wouldn't that require
>the installation of 4.2 beforehand? And it's exactly the organization
>for the installation I want to look up. It seems to be a circular
>problem. I can't look at the help without upgrading and I can't
>upgrade without looking at the help.
No. You can download the Agent 4.2 help file from the Forté website. It's a
standard Windows chm file.
>Program files and user data (I presume you mean "My Documents") are
>some new fangled thing dreamed up by Bill to fit us all into his world
>domination plan, and in the case of My-this-or-that, keep us speaking
>baby talk. I've given in on program files but steadfastly still resist
>his attempts to control my data.
>
>>You can still start Agent with a shortcut's "Start In" property to specify
>>the data directory location but it's better to use the new option in the
>>"Target" property.
>
>>You can continue to run Agent with multiple data directories. You can
>>combine some data directories. It's easier if you decide which ones to
>>combine before using them after the upgrade. See Help for details.
>
>I'd love to.
>
>>I have a folder with over 200,000 text messages that is less than 1 GByte.
>>With modern versions of Windows the maximum size of individual data files
>>is doubled to 8 GByte. The hash collision bug still exists and can cause
>>misthreading.
>
>I don't seem to have encountered the hash collision bug. I did,
>however think that NTFS would handle files a lot bigger than 8 gig,
>after all, isn't that Sony Blue <something or other> DVD the size of
>100 regular DVD's--something like that?
NTFS can handle much larger files but Agent can't. Going larger would
require larger pointers in the idx and dat file causing them to be bigger.
Blue Ray and HD DVD's capacity is much less than 100 DVDs, it's closer to
10.
>>>The Agent site is really bad. You'd think they'd explain exactly how
>>>this upgrade will occur but the help file seems to be a help file for
>>>4.2 and the FAQ is hardly "helpful" in explaining the detail.
>
>>The Agent website and the Agent Help file are two different things. You can
>>download the Agent 4.2 help file from the website.
>
>But you require 4.2 to view it?...........
No, just download, unzip, and open it. It only requires Windows to view it.
All Windows compliant programs have a help file that can be read by
Windows.
>>>BTW I've been cleaning out the old Agent directories. Does anyone know
>>>what the \Agent\Temp directory is? Looks like old binaries. Can I
>>>delete it? Also is the \Agent\All_Cod directory necessary for 2.00? It
>>>hasn't changed since 2002. There's also an executable, unwise.exe, in
>>>the \Agent directory dated 2001. Anyone know what this does?
>
>>The \Agent\Temp directory would have been created by you, possibly for use
>>by Agent for launching attachments. You should check you settings at "Group
>>-> (Default) Properties -> Attachment Folders -> Temporary folder for
>>launching attached files" before deleting it.
>
>Bingo! There's a lot of garbage in it though. I'll delete the contents
>and see if Agent still runs.
>
>>The All_Cod directory is part of the Agent 2 installation. It is not used
>>by Agent 4.2 which stores all *.cod files in the Agent Program directory.
>
>>Unwise.exe and install.log are used to uninstall Agent from the Control
>>Panel.
>
>Aha! I wondered how the control panel learnt about Agent's presence.
The install program writes an uninstall command to the registry. This
command runs unwise.exe with the install.log.
>>If you want to keep your installation clean you can delete the files in the
>>Agent program directory and the All_Cod directory before installing Agent
>>4.2.
>
>Er, yeah but don't they need the licence #.
The license key is stored in agent.ini, not in the program directory. It
doesn't hurt anything to have obsolete files in the program directory but
you can't use the dates to determine if they are obsolete.
>>For more tips and suggestions you need to report your OS, internet
>>connection speed, news servers, size of binaries, text usage, email usage,
>>etc.
>
>(form letter perhaps<g>)
Or a custom signature. I have a custom signature that briefly describes my
hardware and software environment that I use when reporting bugs or
requesting support. I've used it below.
>>Once again, Agent 4.2 is a huge change from Agent 2. Much more than the
>>change from Agent 1.0 to Agent 2. Don't expect to just start using Agent
>>4.2 and learn new stuff as you go along.
>
>Hmmm, maybe I could continue to use 2.00 for text and use 4.2 for
>binaries. That's actually an excellent idea. Do you see anything wrong
>with it? What would happen if I used both at the same time? On the
>same NG?
It's possible. There is no technical problem. Agent 4.2 is much better than
2 for text use. I think it's better to make a clean break. I would find
continuing to use both confusing. I would never go back to using Agent 2.
It would be like going back to Win 3.1 after using WinNT 4.
You might want to make a separate trial installation of Agent 4.2 to play
with before upgrading your main installation.
--
Carroll Robbins
WinXP pro sp2, NTFS, Intel Dual Core 6400 2.13GHz, 2GB RAM,
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT (2x1600x1200),
IE 6, Kerio Personal Firewall 2.1.5, AVG Free 7.5, dialup
Carroll Robbins
<1efcd39qid9tjcb43...@4ax.com> on Thu, 30 Aug 2007 03:00:51
-0400:
An antivirus program can cause long times for deleting and saving. All the
files in the Agent Data directories should be excluded from scanning.
Scanning them does not improve your virus protection. Some antivirus
programs slow access even to files excluded from scanning.
--
Carroll Robbins
What-...@spamfreeisp.edu
>What-...@SpamFreeIsp.edu wrote in
><ci7cd39bmggmbqham...@4ax.com> on Thu, 30 Aug 2007 02:53:53
>>Carroll Robbins <carroll...@ioa.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>What-...@SpamFreeIsp.edu wrote in
>>><ghv9d397cbg7jb2ho...@4ax.com> on Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:35:29
>>>>I'm about to splurge and upgrade to V4.2 for the following reasons:
>>>>- Hopefully reducing the long times to delete binaries
>>>This has not changed. I assume you mean deleting messages with binary
>>>attachments. The most common cause of long deletion times is deleting to
>>>the Trash which requires moving the messages. Unless you require moving
>>>them to the Trash, just delete them permanently which should happen
>>>quickly.
>
>>This hasn't changed???????? Do you realize just how long this takes?
>>Let's say I have a typical RAR of a DVD (4.6 gig). That might be 650
>>parts with 20 sections to each part, say 13,000 sections. I presume
>>that Agent, which I think uses or used an indexed file, just sets the
>>delete flag in the deleted record and the record is actually flushed
>>when compacting the file. Presuming that each section is one record
>>that's 13,000 reads and rewrites, a number that can be done in a few
>>seconds even with slow drives and a slow machine (relatively
>>speaking). With 2.0 at present I can start the delete and go and have
>>a cup of coffee. When I return it's still not finished!
>Something is definitely wrong. As a rough test I imported 9185 messages
>(29.8 MBytes) into Agent 2 on a slow computer (500 MHz CPU, heavily
>fragmented disk). Deleting 9182 of the messages took less than 1 second,
>too quick for me to time accurately.
My machine is 2 ghz with 1gig memory and three HD's, 40, 300, and 120
gig. Almost all data (mostly jpg's, videos, and ebooks) is on the 300
gig drive. The system and Agent files are on the 40. All files are
NTFS except a 2 gig partition on the 40 gig drive. I'm running Win2K.
My virus program is AVG which only scans files if asked which I do for
inward email and programs I download (not jpg's or mpg's, or avi's
etc).
I can only say what happens to me. Based on your numbers it should
take around 2.5 minutes to delete an entire RAR of a DVD but its
definitely much much longer. I'm paranoid about getting the "Agent is
running out of space" message (I've had it twice) so I tend to save
and then delete about 100 RAR parts at a time. Even at this level it's
at least 10 minutes for the save and similar for the delete.
Unfortunately I don't have anything current to download and accurately
measure it.
>>Stupid as it might be, I have the sneaking suspicion that Agent
>>actually physically rewrites the whole database after the removal of
>>each section. OTOH there's very little HD activity during the delete
>>process. The light only comes on at the end. OTOH maybe that's windows
>>keeping it in memory.
>Agent doesn't rewrite the dat file when deleting messages. If you delete
>messages at the end of the file Agent will truncate it. Otherwise the
>messages can be recovered until the space is overwritten by new messages.
Well it has to mark the record somehow. The old (DOS) way used to be
to do a direct write to the disk for just the delete flag (usually one
bit) but I can't imagine they do it like that these days. Anyway it's
pure speculation on my part as to why it's taking so long.
Somewhere in this mess I think you mention that it might be windows
not Agent (or maybe I dreamed that<g>) and indeed I'm thinking now
that that might be correct. I may be blaming Agent for something
that's windows fault or my fault for not being able to tune windows
properly. There's the evidence of your times above and there's a
couple of other phenomena:
I open Explorer (not IE) and immediately collapse the silly "My Data"
branch. Then I expand the local computer. Up pops the 6 logical drives
plus CD's etc (fast). I open the branch for IMAGES (drive e: on the
300 gig drive) which shows 4 sub folders of which two are RECYCLER and
System Volume Information and one is "Binaries" (fast). I open
Binaries and 30 sub folders appear of which 11 have sub folders under
them (considering that this should consist of reading 30 directory
entries and refreshing the screen it's agonizingly slow: I just did it
with Agent running and it took at least 4 seconds!). I expand the
branch with the largest number (1,290) of sub folders and it takes
greater than 30 seconds to display the first 31 of these. You might
argue that it has to read all 1290 entries and not just the first 31
but even if there's this bit of poor programming 30+ seconds to read
1,290 records into memory is ridiculous.
I've been getting a peculiar message from windows, something like,
"Windows is running out of Virtual Memory and will expand the space
allocated. During this time requests for memory may be denied".
There's an OK button so I click it and the message goes away. I don't
know what else to do. This usually occurs when I have open (say)
Firefox, Agent, Zone Alarm, Explorer, 2 copies of XnView, and WinRar.
OK, I'm pushing it but all programs are idle and it doesn't seem to
occur on opening a new one or opening a file. I might be looking at a
jpg at the time (or a similar innocuous task). I've never seen it when
I've been saving attachments or deleting messages in Agent.
I really don't know where to go from here. Maybe I'll try
defragmenting the IMAGES drive and see if it helps.
<snip>
>>You know, now that you point this out I can say I've noticed that. I
>>can set up a download (say a DVD) and then go through the other binary
>>groups and look at various jpg's and they won't wait for the DVD to
>>finish (forever). There seems to be a difference if I hit enter, or L,
>>or A and if the long download is getting text messages, I just wait.
>>Of course the latter might be the server, I suppose.
>>I just thought this was an unadvertised feature. Is there an option
>>somewhere? Nothing in help under "connections" or "priority".
>Go to "Options -> General Preferences -> Online Operation -> General
>Settings". There are options: "Enable priority message retrieval" and
>"Enable priority attachment retrieval". These enable the use of a second
>connection for priority retrieval. Press the Help button on this dialog for
>the help on this feature. You have to use "Get Marked Message Bodies" for
>your normal messages to use this. Other commands to retrieve messages are
>priority retrieval. I had both options enabled so I don't know how it works
>with only one enabled.
Oh...yes! I also have both enabled.
<snip>
>>Now if you could also fix the problem where I spend a couple of hours
>>downloading a video only to find that it has one damaged RAR part (out
>>of hundreds) to which WinRar flippantly says "Oh, well" and tosses the
>>whole video. I don't care if a couple of minutes of the video are
>>screwed up! I don't care if there's a crc error or a checksum error!
>>If you can give me 95% of the image that's fine.
>In the WinRAR "Extraction path and options" dialog there is a option to
>keep broken files. This is mostly used to allow a preview of the first part
>of a video before downloading all the rar files. For many video codecs
>viewers like Windows Media Player won't work unless the video file is
>undamaged. Other viewers like Media Player Classic can play most damaged
>video files.
>It's better to use par2 files to repair the rar files or video. Agent 5 is
>supposed to automate this. It works easily with QuickPar now.
Well, I'm probably doing something wrong here too. I run QuickPar on
each RAR and most of the time it finds some damaged files. I repair
but it rarely comes up "Repair succeeded". Usually "Verify failed" or
"Checksum error". When I run WinRar even with jpg's I almost always
have a corrupt volume or crc error for some files in those parts that
QuickPar identified as being damaged in the first place. IOW QuickPar
is rarely useful in repairing files.
<snip>
>The upgrade is very worthwhile but the changes that make it worthwhile are
>significant. Some users irrationally expected Agent 3.0 to look and work
>like Agent 2. If you expect Agent 4.2 to be different, you shouldn't have a
>problem learning it. It's actually easier to use. Eg. Folder properties
>allow you to specify which file types should be saved automatically.
>Schemes allow you to control properties for groups of folders.
<snip>
>>Like spam, I find it easier to just bypass (and delete in the case of
>>spam) the items I don't want.
>I don't understand what this applies to. My point was that Agent 4.2 allows
>multiple desks but only requires one desk. I find multiple desks useful.
>Multiple subscription lists was an oft requested feature.
It applies to your laudatory remarks about 4.2 and it's saying,
perhaps ineptly, that I neither use nor desire lots of the features
that exist even in 2.0. I have no filters, no watch threads, and none
of the superfine adjustments that avoid spam. I don't even know how
some of these work or why they exist. So I'm hardly likely to look
favorably on further expansion of features I don't use or need.
<snip>
For the installation questions I'll download and read the help files
now that you've told me how to (this information might be valuable on
Agent's website, don't ya think?). If I have any further issues I'll
return with more questions.
Once again thanks for spending so much time.
Jaimie Vandenbergh
>I can only say what happens to me. Based on your numbers it should
>take around 2.5 minutes to delete an entire RAR of a DVD but its
>definitely much much longer. I'm paranoid about getting the "Agent is
>running out of space" message (I've had it twice) so I tend to save
>and then delete about 100 RAR parts at a time. Even at this level it's
>at least 10 minutes for the save and similar for the delete.
>Unfortunately I don't have anything current to download and accurately
>measure it.
This sounds like you're not taking advantage of Agent's on-the-fly
decode and save options.
Are you downloading all the messages, then saving the RAR parts, then
deleting them from Agent? If so, stop doing that.
Go to Folder [Default] Properties, Receiving Messages, Saving
Attachments. Choose "Save All Attachments" or "Save selected filetypes
only". Also set a download folder (or one for each folder).
Now Agent will save the rar parts directly to the download folder
specified, without going through the Agent message database. Vast
saving of time and effort, not to mention not having to worry about
"DAT file full" errors.
Cheers - Jaimie
--
"When you read the speech where the phonetic-spelling dyslexic is transcribing
his conversation with the giant lisping sloths, you realize that here is a
writer that wakes up in the morning without the slightest shred of self doubt."
- Sean Stewart, rasfw, about Iain M Banks
Bill Harzia
>I open Explorer (not IE) and immediately collapse the silly "My Data"
>branch. Then I expand the local computer. Up pops the 6 logical drives
>plus CD's etc (fast).
Quick tip. Setup a shortcut with the target set as:
%SystemRoot%\explorer.exe /e,/select,c:
Makes life easier.
Dave
Carroll Robbins
<s00fd3lgm23fgaq2k...@4ax.com> on Fri, 31 Aug 2007 05:16:30
GMT:
>Carroll Robbins <carroll...@ioa.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>What-...@SpamFreeIsp.edu wrote in
>><ci7cd39bmggmbqham...@4ax.com> on Thu, 30 Aug 2007 02:53:53
>
>>>Carroll Robbins <carroll...@ioa.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>What-...@SpamFreeIsp.edu wrote in
>>>><ghv9d397cbg7jb2ho...@4ax.com> on Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:35:29
>
>>>>>I'm about to splurge and upgrade to V4.2 for the following reasons:
>
>>>>>- Hopefully reducing the long times to delete binaries
>
>>>>This has not changed.
-snip-
>My machine is 2 ghz with 1gig memory and three HD's, 40, 300, and 120
>gig. Almost all data (mostly jpg's, videos, and ebooks) is on the 300
>gig drive. The system and Agent files are on the 40. All files are
>NTFS except a 2 gig partition on the 40 gig drive. I'm running Win2K.
>My virus program is AVG which only scans files if asked which I do for
>inward email and programs I download (not jpg's or mpg's, or avi's
>etc).
>
>I can only say what happens to me. Based on your numbers it should
>take around 2.5 minutes to delete an entire RAR of a DVD but its
>definitely much much longer. I'm paranoid about getting the "Agent is
>running out of space" message (I've had it twice) so I tend to save
>and then delete about 100 RAR parts at a time. Even at this level it's
>at least 10 minutes for the save and similar for the delete.
>Unfortunately I don't have anything current to download and accurately
>measure it.
I've done more testing and confirmed that the speed of permanently deleting
is similar for Agent 2 and 4.2. The time for deleting depends mostly on the
amount of data and where in the dat file it's located (or maybe the order
it was added) and not the number of messages. The testing was done on an
old slow computer with NT4, 384MB, 500MHz, and slow disks.
Importing 1.7 GB of messages took about 32 minutes and was CPU limited.
Deleting the messages in order took 17m30s and was CPU limited.
Deleting the messages in reverse order took 4m16s and was disk limited.
Deleting 4500 messages (1.2 GB) in size order took 10m50s, CPU limited.
Saving attachments from the 4500 messages took 19m20s, disk limited.
Saving attachments and removing from messages took 45m53s, CPU limited.
Deleting the messages after attachments removed took 1m04s, disk limited.
The best way to speed up deleting is to keep the dat file small by using
the options to join headers when retrieving them, save attachments
automatically and remove them after saving. This also usually eliminates
running out of space in the dat file. You also should purge, compact, and
defragment.
-snip-
>I open Explorer (not IE) and immediately collapse the silly "My Data"
>branch. Then I expand the local computer. Up pops the 6 logical drives
>plus CD's etc (fast). I open the branch for IMAGES (drive e: on the
>300 gig drive) which shows 4 sub folders of which two are RECYCLER and
>System Volume Information and one is "Binaries" (fast). I open
>Binaries and 30 sub folders appear of which 11 have sub folders under
>them (considering that this should consist of reading 30 directory
>entries and refreshing the screen it's agonizingly slow: I just did it
>with Agent running and it took at least 4 seconds!). I expand the
>branch with the largest number (1,290) of sub folders and it takes
>greater than 30 seconds to display the first 31 of these. You might
>argue that it has to read all 1290 entries and not just the first 31
>but even if there's this bit of poor programming 30+ seconds to read
>1,290 records into memory is ridiculous.
When you open Binaries, Windows Explorer doesn't just read the 30 directory
entries for Binaries, it also reads the directory entries in each of the 30
subdirectories. When you expand the branch with 1290 subfolders, it reads
all the directory entries for all 1290 subfolders. I don't remember why
Explorer does this but that and sorting the entries explains the delay.
>I've been getting a peculiar message from windows, something like,
>"Windows is running out of Virtual Memory and will expand the space
>allocated. During this time requests for memory may be denied".
>There's an OK button so I click it and the message goes away. I don't
>know what else to do. This usually occurs when I have open (say)
>Firefox, Agent, Zone Alarm, Explorer, 2 copies of XnView, and WinRar.
>OK, I'm pushing it but all programs are idle and it doesn't seem to
>occur on opening a new one or opening a file. I might be looking at a
>jpg at the time (or a similar innocuous task). I've never seen it when
>I've been saving attachments or deleting messages in Agent.
This means your virtual memory settings are incorrect. You need to increase
the total "Initial size" of your paging files to at least the Windows
Recommended size. When Windows dynamically increases the size of the paging
files it usually causes a big decrease in performance because of
fragmentation. You need to make sure your paging files have little
fragmentation. It's best to locate the paging files on fast physical disks
that see little other activity. I know this usually isn't possible. Windows
likes to have at least a small paging file on the Windows disk. You can see
you recent paging file usage on the Windows Task Manager's Performance tab.
The Commit Charge Limit is determined by your Physical Memory and paging
file sizes.
>I really don't know where to go from here. Maybe I'll try
>defragmenting the IMAGES drive and see if it helps.
Fragmented disks can cause a major performance loss. Downloading large
binaries from Usenet and combining them causes more fragmentation than most
other computer activities.
-snip-
>>It's better to use par2 files to repair the rar files or video. Agent 5 is
>>supposed to automate this. It works easily with QuickPar now.
>
>Well, I'm probably doing something wrong here too. I run QuickPar on
>each RAR and most of the time it finds some damaged files. I repair
>but it rarely comes up "Repair succeeded". Usually "Verify failed" or
>"Checksum error". When I run WinRar even with jpg's I almost always
>have a corrupt volume or crc error for some files in those parts that
>QuickPar identified as being damaged in the first place. IOW QuickPar
>is rarely useful in repairing files.
This is really, really bad. It is usually caused by hardware problems,
either RAM or disk. It can be caused by software interfering with the
files. Have you run memtest86 (free at www.memtest.org)? Are there any disk
errors listed in Event Viewer? Does it matter which disk the files are on?
-snip-
>I don't even know how
>some of these work or why they exist. So I'm hardly likely to look
>favorably on further expansion of features I don't use or need.
The benefit to you and me of features we don't use is that it helps keep
Forté in business and adding features we do use. Any non-trivial program
has some features that not everyone uses.
-snip-
>Once again thanks for spending so much time.
You're welcome.
--
Carroll Robbins
Alan Baxter
>This means your virtual memory settings are incorrect. You need to increase
>the total "Initial size" of your paging files to at least the Windows
>Recommended size. When Windows dynamically increases the size of the paging
>files it usually causes a big decrease in performance because of
>fragmentation. You need to make sure your paging files have little
>fragmentation. It's best to locate the paging files on fast physical disks
>that see little other activity. I know this usually isn't possible. Windows
>likes to have at least a small paging file on the Windows disk. You can see
>you recent paging file usage on the Windows Task Manager's Performance tab.
>The Commit Charge Limit is determined by your Physical Memory and paging
>file sizes.
I found the following article useful when optimizing my Virtual Memory
settings. I think Win2K might use the same memory manager as WinXP.
http://aumha.org/win5/a/xpvm.htm
For what it's worth, I have mine set as
D: (System Disk) 2-50 MB
C: (Used by paging file only) 1024-4096 MB
I use the WinXP-2K_Pagefile monitoring tool referenced in the article
above to verify that a 1024 MB paging file size is adequate for me.
YMMV of course.
Hope this helps. Let me know whether it does.
WinXP SP2, 600MHz PIII, 1GB RAM
--
atbaxter at baxtersys dot com
What-...@spamfreeisp.edu
>What-...@SpamFreeIsp.edu wrote in
><s00fd3lgm23fgaq2k...@4ax.com> on Fri, 31 Aug 2007 05:16:30
>GMT:
>
>>Carroll Robbins <carroll...@ioa.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>What-...@SpamFreeIsp.edu wrote in
>>><ci7cd39bmggmbqham...@4ax.com> on Thu, 30 Aug 2007 02:53:53
>>
>>>>Carroll Robbins <carroll...@ioa.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>>What-...@SpamFreeIsp.edu wrote in
>>>>><ghv9d397cbg7jb2ho...@4ax.com> on Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:35:29
>>
<lots of snipping>
>The best way to speed up deleting is to keep the dat file small by using
>the options to join headers when retrieving them, save attachments
>automatically and remove them after saving. This also usually eliminates
>running out of space in the dat file. You also should purge, compact, and
>defragment.
I've moved to this system but now of course I can't break the time
into download, save, and delete so I don't know if it's actually
faster. At least it avoids the coding error on saving so I can leave
the machine and do something slightly useful <g>.
>>I've been getting a peculiar message from windows, something like,
>>"Windows is running out of Virtual Memory and will expand the space
>>allocated. During this time requests for memory may be denied".
>>There's an OK button so I click it and the message goes away. I don't
>>know what else to do. This usually occurs when I have open (say)
>>Firefox, Agent, Zone Alarm, Explorer, 2 copies of XnView, and WinRar.
>>OK, I'm pushing it but all programs are idle and it doesn't seem to
>>occur on opening a new one or opening a file. I might be looking at a
>>jpg at the time (or a similar innocuous task). I've never seen it when
>>I've been saving attachments or deleting messages in Agent.
>This means your virtual memory settings are incorrect. You need to increase
>the total "Initial size" of your paging files to at least the Windows
>Recommended size. When Windows dynamically increases the size of the paging
>files it usually causes a big decrease in performance because of
>fragmentation. You need to make sure your paging files have little
>fragmentation. It's best to locate the paging files on fast physical disks
>that see little other activity. I know this usually isn't possible. Windows
>likes to have at least a small paging file on the Windows disk. You can see
>you recent paging file usage on the Windows Task Manager's Performance tab.
>The Commit Charge Limit is determined by your Physical Memory and paging
>file sizes.
Obviously my thinking that Windows would permanently fix the VM
problem was erroneous. I've expanded initial VM considerably and
divided it between the 300 gig disk and the 120 which is only used for
backup. The increase in speed is quite significant. Even my slow
explorer, once it has initially loaded the directory entries, is fast.
Good suggestion. Thanks.
>>I really don't know where to go from here. Maybe I'll try
>>defragmenting the IMAGES drive and see if it helps.
>Fragmented disks can cause a major performance loss. Downloading large
>binaries from Usenet and combining them causes more fragmentation than most
>other computer activities.
Nah...windows says none of the drives need defragmenting.
>>>It's better to use par2 files to repair the rar files or video. Agent 5 is
>>>supposed to automate this. It works easily with QuickPar now.
>>
>>Well, I'm probably doing something wrong here too. I run QuickPar on
>>each RAR and most of the time it finds some damaged files. I repair
>>but it rarely comes up "Repair succeeded". Usually "Verify failed" or
>>"Checksum error". When I run WinRar even with jpg's I almost always
>>have a corrupt volume or crc error for some files in those parts that
>>QuickPar identified as being damaged in the first place. IOW QuickPar
>>is rarely useful in repairing files.
>
>This is really, really bad. It is usually caused by hardware problems,
>either RAM or disk. It can be caused by software interfering with the
>files. Have you run memtest86 (free at www.memtest.org)?
Yes, although not recently.
> Are there any disk
>errors listed in Event Viewer?
No. Going back to February, the only errors are "The TrueVector
Internet Monitor service failed to start ..." (this occurs daily) and
"Windows cannot unload your registry file... (also daily at shut
down).
> Does it matter which disk the files are on?
Don't know. I'll try the current DVD when the d/l finishes (probably
Monday <g>).
What's frustrating though is that I don't give a rat's if there's some
minor errors. Can't it just plug the crc difference or pretend the
checksum worked? IOW have Quickpar make the file so that WinRar
doesn't object.
I know there are guys out there who worry over the total csv of a
batch of files and attempt to d/l everything. Panic occurs if
anything's missing. This isn't me. 95% of everything I d/l I throw
away usually as soon as I view the jpg's. And the rest...well, these
"artistes" insist on producing a jpg of 3 meg when anything over 200K
is superfluous so for those I keep I convert to a much more lossy jpg
to bring it in around 200k. I save that.
I think we need a new WinRar-like software for philistines like myself
<g>.
nbc
> What-...@SpamFreeIsp.edu wrote in
> <ci7cd39bmggmbqham...@4ax.com> on Thu, 30 Aug 2007
> 02:53:53 GMT:
> > Stupid as it might be, I have the sneaking suspicion that Agent
> > actually physically rewrites the whole database after the removal of
> > each section. OTOH there's very little HD activity during the delete
> > process. The light only comes on at the end. OTOH maybe that's
> > windows keeping it in memory.
>
> Agent doesn't rewrite the dat file when deleting messages. If you
> delete messages at the end of the file Agent will truncate it.
> Otherwise the messages can be recovered until the space is
> overwritten by new messages.
I'm curious if Agent v4 uses an actual database engine to store
messages or if the .dat files are just text files?
Ralph Fox
nbc wrote:
> I'm curious if Agent v4 uses an actual database engine to store
> messages
Define "actual database engine".
Anyone can call the part of their software which reads and writes
the data files, an "actual database engine".
> or if the .dat files are just text files?
The .dat files are not just text files. They contain binary data.
If you don't believe me, try opening one in Notepad, changing
one letter, and saving it. Don't try this on a .dat file with
messages which you cannot afford to lose.
--
Cheers,
Ralph
Nick Spalding
on Mon, 03 Sep 2007 03:28:02 -0000:
They are in a proprietary database format unique to Agent. The .idx is
pretty much entirely binary, the .dat is a mixture of binary and text.
--
Nick Spalding
Vista Home Premium, Intel Viiv dual core E6300 (1.86Ghz, 1066MHz FSB),
2GB RAM, 320GB NTFS HD, Video Nvidia GeForce 7900GS LCD 1280x1024x60Hz
Carroll Robbins
<ogakd310i1tvmmmn5...@4ax.com> on Sun, 02 Sep 2007 03:36:40
GMT:
>Carroll Robbins <carroll...@ioa.com.invalid> wrote:
>> Does it matter which disk the files are on?
>
>Don't know. I'll try the current DVD when the d/l finishes (probably
>Monday <g>).
Also before doing the repair try pressing F5 to rescan the files and see if
the needed number of blocks changes.
Are you using QuickPar version 0.9.1?
>What's frustrating though is that I don't give a rat's if there's some
>minor errors. Can't it just plug the crc difference or pretend the
>checksum worked? IOW have Quickpar make the file so that WinRar
>doesn't object.
No. QuickPar can only repair the file exactly or do nothing but report the
bad file.
>I know there are guys out there who worry over the total csv of a
>batch of files and attempt to d/l everything. Panic occurs if
>anything's missing. This isn't me. 95% of everything I d/l I throw
>away usually as soon as I view the jpg's. And the rest...well, these
>"artistes" insist on producing a jpg of 3 meg when anything over 200K
>is superfluous so for those I keep I convert to a much more lossy jpg
>to bring it in around 200k. I save that.
>
>I think we need a new WinRar-like software for philistines like myself
><g>.
WinRAR can be used to extract files even though there are errors. If the
file is stored in the RAR file (not compressed) then the number of
incorrect bytes will normally be about the same in the extracted file as
the RAR file. If the file is compressed in the RAR file then the number of
incorrect bytes in the extracted file will normally be much greater than in
the RAR file. This is the nature of compression, 1 bad byte will cause many
more.
Normally WinRAR deletes bad files. Follow these steps to have WinRAR not
delete the bad extracted files.
Open the RAR file in WinRAR.
Select the file or files you want to extract.
Do not use drag and drop to extract the files.
Use "Commands -> Extract to the specified folder" or Alt+E.
Enter the destination path to extract to.
Tick the "Keep broken files" checkbox.
Set other options as desired.
Press OK.
WinRAR will report any errors but will not delete the extracted data.
--
Carroll Robbins
Carroll Robbins
Sep 2007 03:28:02 -0000:
>I'm curious if Agent v4 uses an actual database engine to store
>messages or if the .dat files are just text files?
The dat files are not text files. The dat and idx files are binary files in
a proprietary database format used by Forté.
--
Carroll Robbins
Marts
> On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 03:28:02 -0000, in message <13dmvq2...@corp.supernews.com>,
> nbc wrote:
>
> > I'm curious if Agent v4 uses an actual database engine to store
> > messages
>
> Define "actual database engine".
Speaking of data files, what would be a handy feature if the user could specify
the directory for the data files. I could then set Agent up on the laptop and on
the desktop computer to point to the same directory, say, C:\Agent\Data on the
desktop (it would be mapped as say G:\Agent\Data on the laptop. Saves me having
to copy the data files back and forth every time I wish to use Agent on
different computers.
(I'm actually half expecting someone to tell me that I can actually do this, as
it would mean that I've missed yet another way of configuring Agent...)
>
> Anyone can call the part of their software which reads and writes
> the data files, an "actual database engine".
>
>
> > or if the .dat files are just text files?
>
> The .dat files are not just text files. They contain binary data.
>
> If you don't believe me, try opening one in Notepad, changing
> one letter, and saving it. Don't try this on a .dat file with
> messages which you cannot afford to lose.
--
Man is incomplete until he is married. Then he is finished...
Ralph Fox
Marts wrote:
> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 4.2/32.1118
> Speaking of data files, what would be a handy feature if the user could specify
> the directory for the data files.
The genie in the lamp has granted your wish.
To collect your wish, visit this Agent FAQ entry...
"How do I specify the directory for Agent's database?"
http://www.forteinc.com/agent/faq.php#FB2FADAC1F75A4FA88256C1E005A25BB
> I could then set Agent up on the laptop and on
> the desktop computer to point to the same directory, say, C:\Agent\Data on the
> desktop (it would be mapped as say G:\Agent\Data on the laptop. Saves me having
> to copy the data files back and forth every time I wish to use Agent on
> different computers.
You can do that, but do NOT EVER run both Agents at the same time.
Agent does not share its data files gracefully.
If both Agents are run on the same computer and from the
same Windows login account, then Agent will probably recognize
this and not allow both Agents to run.
If the two Agents are run from different computers, Agent
will not detect this and you may corrupt your database.
> (I'm actually half expecting someone to tell me that I can actually do this, as
> it would mean that I've missed yet another way of configuring Agent...)
--
Cheers,
Ralph
Mark Lloyd
<E-0C0013...@cleopatra.co.uk> wrote:
>In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Ralph Fox) wrote in
><hb6qd3tgbt600sdsp...@4ax.com>::
>
>>On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:09:34 +1000, in message <gdfpd3ln8ld0efcs0...@4ax.com>,
>>Marts wrote:
>>
>>> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 4.2/32.1118
>>
>>> Speaking of data files, what would be a handy feature if the user could specify
>>> the directory for the data files.
>>
>>The genie in the lamp has granted your wish.
>>
>>To collect your wish, visit this Agent FAQ entry...
>>
>> "How do I specify the directory for Agent's database?"
>> http://www.forteinc.com/agent/faq.php#FB2FADAC1F75A4FA88256C1E005A25BB
>>
>>
>>> I could then set Agent up on the laptop and on
>>> the desktop computer to point to the same directory, say, C:\Agent\Data on the
>>> desktop (it would be mapped as say G:\Agent\Data on the laptop. Saves me having
>>> to copy the data files back and forth every time I wish to use Agent on
>>> different computers.
>>
>>You can do that, but do NOT EVER run both Agents at the same time.
>>Agent does not share its data files gracefully.
>>
>>If both Agents are run on the same computer and from the
>>same Windows login account, then Agent will probably recognize
>>this and not allow both Agents to run.
>>
>>If the two Agents are run from different computers, Agent
>>will not detect this and you may corrupt your database.
>
>Does Agent not use a mutex to prevent this? If not, perhaps it should?
It does the hard part. When you start Agent, it creates a file called
MUTEX.TMP in the data directory and deletes it on exit. To use it, you
need to write a batch file that checks for this file and doesn't run
Agent if the file is present.
--
112 days until the winter solstice celebration
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy
Marts
> > Speaking of data files, what would be a handy feature if the user could specify
> > the directory for the data files.
>
> The genie in the lamp has granted your wish.
Yes, thanks for that. I've configured the shortcut for the "start in" method.
Works fine.
> To collect your wish, visit this Agent FAQ entry...
I'm also reading other FAQs. Should really read it all before posting here
again, huh?
> You can do that, but do NOT EVER run both Agents at the same time.
> Agent does not share its data files gracefully.
Thanks. I doubt that i would, unless I forget to close Agent on one computer
before opening it on another.
--
He's tall for his height...
Ralph Fox
Marc Wilson wrote:
> In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Ralph Fox) wrote in
> <hb6qd3tgbt600sdsp...@4ax.com>::
>
> >
> >You can do that, but do NOT EVER run both Agents at the same time.
> >Agent does not share its data files gracefully.
> >
> >If both Agents are run on the same computer and from the
> >same Windows login account, then Agent will probably recognize
> >this and not allow both Agents to run.
> >
> >If the two Agents are run from different computers, Agent
> >will not detect this and you may corrupt your database.
>
> Does Agent not use a mutex to prevent this? If not, perhaps it should?
Agent does use a mutex.
The mutex is effective when both Agents are run on the same computer.
(In XP +, both Agents also have to be run from the same Windows user account).
The mutex is not effective when the two Agents are run on different computers.
--
Cheers,
Ralph
Ralph Fox
Marc Wilson wrote:
> >It does the hard part. When you start Agent, it creates a file called
> >MUTEX.TMP in the data directory and deletes it on exit. To use it, you
> >need to write a batch file that checks for this file and doesn't run
> >Agent if the file is present.
> Duh! So it creates a mutex, and then doesn't use it? How dumb is that?
Duh yourself.
Agent does use the mutex. That is how it successfully handles this when
both Agents are run on the same computer. You could have easily run some
checks to prove this (e.g. with and without deleting the mutex file before
running the second instance).
When a second Agent is run, Agent does check the mutex -- but on a second
computer the mutex will appear to be a defunct mutex left over from an
Agent crash (which did not properly clean up its mutex file when it crashed).
For most people, it is way more likely to have a mutex left over from
an Agent crash than to run Agent on two computers. So this is what
Agent assumes is most likely to have happened.
--
Cheers,
Ralph
Mark Lloyd
>On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 17:44:03 +0100, in message <np2rd311fckhnf2sk...@4ax.com>,
>Marc Wilson wrote:
>
>> In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Ralph Fox) wrote in
>> <hb6qd3tgbt600sdsp...@4ax.com>::
>>
>> >
>> >You can do that, but do NOT EVER run both Agents at the same time.
>> >Agent does not share its data files gracefully.
>> >
>> >If both Agents are run on the same computer and from the
>> >same Windows login account, then Agent will probably recognize
>> >this and not allow both Agents to run.
>> >
>> >If the two Agents are run from different computers, Agent
>> >will not detect this and you may corrupt your database.
>>
>> Does Agent not use a mutex to prevent this? If not, perhaps it should?
>
>
>Agent does use a mutex.
>
>The mutex is effective when both Agents are run on the same computer.
>(In XP +, both Agents also have to be run from the same Windows user account).
>
Leaving out the best version, Windows 2000? This is almost exactly
like XP, but without some of the new "unfeatures".
>The mutex is not effective when the two Agents are run on different computers.
--
111 days until the winter solstice celebration
Ralph Fox
Mark Lloyd wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:23:55 +0000, Ralph Fox <-...@-.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 17:44:03 +0100, in message <np2rd311fckhnf2sk...@4ax.com>,
> >The mutex is effective when both Agents are run on the same computer.
> >(In XP +, both Agents also have to be run from the same Windows user account).
> >
>
> Leaving out the best version, Windows 2000? This is almost exactly
> like XP, but without some of the new "unfeatures".
Here is the "different user account" problem for XP:
http://www.forteinc.com/agent/faq.php#E5751E1CBEB8E86D88256D860064A401
I might expect the same when using "Run as..." and a different
user account -- but I haven't checked it.
I don't know what happens with Win 2K.
> >The mutex is not effective when the two Agents are run on different computers.
> --
> 111 days until the winter solstice celebration
110 days until the summer solstice celebration. :-)
--
Cheers,
Ralph
Mark Lloyd
>> --
>> 111 days until the winter solstice celebration
>
>110 days until the summer solstice celebration. :-)
I am aware or the difference between the northern and southern
hemispheres. The problem is in finding a generic message.
--
110 days until the winter solstice celebration
Ralph Fox
Mark Lloyd wrote:
> [snip]
>
> >> --
> >> 111 days until the winter solstice celebration
> >
> >110 days until the summer solstice celebration. :-)
>
> I am aware or the difference between the northern and southern
> hemispheres.
And also of time zone differences, which can sometimes make a
difference to the number of days :-)
> The problem is in finding a generic message.
It should never be taken too seriously. :-)
> "Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
> not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
> no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
> school classes." -- Ted Kennedy
Isn't 'intelligent design' a robot religion from one of Isaac
Asimov's "I' Robot" stories? Along the lines: «Robots are
a product of intelligent design, humans are not, therefore
humans cannot have created robots.»