Killfiling Help Needed

[Cheetah99218]

I've killfiled a number of posters from other newsgroups, but I would
like to also killfile the responses to those whom I've killfiled. That
is, if someone posts a response to someone I've killfiled, I would
like to have that response also killfiled. Is there a way to do that?
Thanks for any help you can give me.
Cheetah using Agent 6.

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017 16:18:48 -0800, Cheetah99218 <Degenerated@Cats>
wrote:

>I've killfiled a number of posters from other newsgroups, but I would
>like to also killfile the responses to those whom I've killfiled. That
>is, if someone posts a response to someone I've killfiled, I would
>like to have that response also killfiled. Is there a way to do that?

There is no way do kill the responder, only kill the entire subthread
(Kill Action: Ignore Thread). That's usually a bit too heavyhanded, but
might suit you.

I've often found that those who engage in heavy duty replying to a troll
can merit a killfile entry of their own for a few days...

Cheers - Jaimie
--
Actually, the Singularity seems rather useful in the entire work avoidance
field. "I _could_ write up that report now but if I put it off, I may well
become a weakly godlike entity, at which point not only will I be able to
type faster but my comments will be more on-target." - James Nicoll

[Ralph Fox]

This method works if you don't have thousands of messages and headers
in a group. For example, if you purge messages and headers more than
several weeks old.


1. At "Tools >> Options >> Navigation and Menus >> Navigation",
make sure there is a check-mark in "The Ignore command applies to
sub-threads only".

2. In your kill filter, set the kill action to "Ignore thread". This
will ignore the killfiled poster and the subthread he/she starts.

3. Use the menu at "View >> Custom Message Views >> ..." to change
your message view to "Not Ignored".

Agent does not come pre-configured with a "Not Ignored" custom view,
but you can add one like so:

3.1 Go to "View >> Custom Message View >> Menage Views"
3.2 Click "Add" and enter the name "Not Ignored"
3.3 Now select "Not Ignored" from the "View" list.
3.4 Adjust the settings on the "Simple View" tab so that
the "Not ignored" box is checked and all of the other
boxes are not checked.


This method is not recommended when you have thousands of messages and
headers in a group, because of the "hash collision" problem in Agent.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topicsearchin/alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent/%22hash$20collision%22



--
Kind regards
Ralph
🦊

[Cheetah99218]

On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 17:41:27 +1300, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>
wrote:

Thank you for your reply. I'm not clear on what the results will be if
I do as you suggest. I don't want to kill the whole thread, just the
responses to the troll. Perhaps I'm asking too much of Agent.

[Ralph Fox]

If you follow all the instructions, then it will only kill...
* the troll
* replies to the troll
* replies to replies to the troll
* and so on.
That is, it will kill the sub-thread started by the troll. It will not kill
the whole thread (unless the troll was the OP who started the thread).


--
Kind regards
Ralph
🦊

[Mack A. Damia]

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 17:09:40 +1300, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>

The trolls are cross posting to our group, and we are looking for a
way to block cross posted messages.

[Ralph Fox]

On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 20:59:22 -0800, Mack A. Damia wrote:

> The trolls are cross posting to our group, and we are looking for a
> way to block cross posted messages.

> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 4.2/32.1118


Two ways

1. Method #1 (available in Agent 4.0 and up)

This method is easy to set up. With this method you can filter
messages by the number of crosspost groups. You cannot filter
messages crossposted to a specific "bad" group.

To filter crossposts in a single newsgroup, adjust your
settings at
(select group) >> Folder >> Properties >> Receiving Messages >> Usenet Crossposting

To filter crossposts in all newsgroups, adjust your settings at
Folder >> Default Properties >> Receiving Messages >> Usenet Crossposting


2. Method #2 (available in Agent 4.0 and up)

With this method you can filter messages crossposted to a
specific "bad" group. However, this method is more complicated
to set up than #1.

Look here in the help file
Help >> Index >> Filters >> On the newsgroups: field



=========================== the fine print ===========================
Both of these methods only count crossposts to groups which your news
server carries. If your news server does not carry the group (say)
borduria.politics then these methods will not see crossposts to
borduria.politics. This is because the news server does not send the
actual "Newsgroups" header when headers are retrieved. The server
sends the "Xref" header which includes only those crosspost groups
that your news server actually carries.
=========================== the fine print ===========================


--
Kind regards
Ralph
🦊

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 20:59:22 -0800, Mack A. Damia

<drstee...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>The trolls are cross posting to our group, and we are looking for a
>way to block cross posted messages.

If there's a group they always include in the crosspost, you can kill on
that directly, eg -

newsgroups: alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk

If they're crossposting to random other groups, as per Ralph set up a
crossposting filter for any more than 2 groups. Depending on how your
group works this might have unwanted kills on non-troll posts, but legit
crossposting is fairly rare these days so you're probably alright.

You can test any filter before killing with it, using the Edit/Find
Global. This search box takes the same syntax as killfilters and will
show you what'll be hit.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
BE PURE
BE VIGILANT
BEHAVE

[Opinicus]

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:03:37 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh
<jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:

> If there's a group they always include in the crosspost, you can kill on
> that directly, eg -
> newsgroups: alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk

I didn't realize that was possible. Thanks for the clue.

--
Bob
St Francis would have done better to preach to the cats

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 13:47:23 +0300, Opinicus
<gez...@spamcop.net.which.is.not.quite.invalid> wrote:

>On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:03:37 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh
><jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:
>
>> If there's a group they always include in the crosspost, you can kill on
>> that directly, eg -
>> newsgroups: alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk
>I didn't realize that was possible. Thanks for the clue.

Came in with Agent v4 I think.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"Don't drag me down to your level, meat." -- Red Robot #C-63

[Mack A. Damia]

On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 20:59:22 -0800, Mack A. Damia
<drstee...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Thanks to all!

[Opinicus]

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:56:16 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh

<jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:

> ><jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:

> >> If there's a group they always include in the crosspost, you can kill on
> >> that directly, eg -
> >> newsgroups: alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk
> >I didn't realize that was possible. Thanks for the clue.

> Came in with Agent v4 I think.

When I just tried (in rec.arts.books) to create this filter:

newsgroups: alt.war.vietnam,alt.support.depression

I got a syntax error. The same happened with:

newsgroups: alt.war.vietnam, alt.support.depression

Apparently you can only have one newsgroup in the expression. These
work:

newsgroups: alt.war.vietnam
newsgroups: alt.support.depression

FWIW the original message has this in the headers:

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.war.vietnam,alt.support.depression

Applying the filters caught the original message but not a reply to
it, which had the same Newsgroups: line.

[Ralph Fox]

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 07:26:43 +0300, Opinicus wrote:

> When I just tried (in rec.arts.books) to create this filter:
>
> newsgroups: alt.war.vietnam,alt.support.depression
>
> I got a syntax error.

Agent does not like the comma not being inside "quotes" or {regex braces}.


A. When you want to filter messages which are cross-posted to at least ONE
of the two groups, use this:

newsgroups: ( alt.war.vietnam | alt.support.depression )


B. When you want to filter messages which are cross-posted to BOTH of the
two groups at the same time, use this:

newsgroups: ( alt.war.vietnam & alt.support.depression )


C. When you want to filter messages where those two groups appear in
the crosspost in that order, one right next to the other, then...

(1) You can avoid the syntax error by using quote marks like this:

newsgroups: "alt.war.vietnam,alt.support.depression"

(2) Even so, there is no assurance that the order in your filter
will match the same order in the message's "Newsgroups" field.

When retrieving headers there is no actual "Newsgroups" field, so
Agent uses the "Xref" field to determine which groups the message
was crossposted to.
REF [1]: Help >> Index >> Filters >> On the newsgroups: field
REF [2]: Help >> Index >> Crossposting >> How Crosspost Management Works

> The same happened with:
>
> newsgroups: alt.war.vietnam, alt.support.depression
>
> Apparently you can only have one newsgroup in the expression. These
> work:
>
> newsgroups: alt.war.vietnam
> newsgroups: alt.support.depression
>
> FWIW the original message has this in the headers:
>
> Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.war.vietnam,alt.support.depression
>
> Applying the filters caught the original message but not a reply to
> it, which had the same Newsgroups: line.

Check what was in the reply's Xref: line from the same server that the
reply's header came from. (Each news server generates its own Xref: line.)

* Filtering happens when retrieving headers.
* When retrieving headers there is no "Newsgroups:" line, so Agent
uses the "Xref:" line to determine which groups the message was
crossposted to.


--
Kind regards
Ralph
🦊

[Cheetah99218]

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 17:09:40 +1300, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>

Thank you for all these helpful suggestions. I was able to implement
all of your instructions, but did not get the results that I was
hoping for. Perhaps it is necessary for me to have the killfiled post
taken back and then follow these instructions? That is, beginning with
the poster's post that I want to killfile?

[Ralph Fox]

On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 17:55:03 -0800, Cheetah99218 wrote:

> Thank you for all these helpful suggestions. I was able to implement
> all of your instructions, but did not get the results that I was
> hoping for. Perhaps it is necessary for me to have the killfiled post
> taken back and then follow these instructions? That is, beginning with
> the poster's post that I want to killfile?

You need to have the troll's post, and that post should be marked ignored.

It works like this

1) The kill filter marks the troll's post as 'ignored' (not 'deleted').
2) Agent itself automatically marks any followups to an 'ignored' post
as also 'ignored'. To start this off, Agent needs to have the first
'ignored' post from #1.
3) The view setting hides the troll's 'ignored' post and the 'ignored'
followups.


--
Kind regards
Ralph
🦊