Re: GMail

[Ralph Fox]

On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 08:49:15 -0500, Anthony R. Gold wrote:

> I collect my email from GMail using POP3 and with the setting on my GMail
> account to permit "less secure access". I understand this access will become
> unavailable on 30 May. What version(s) of Agent will work with GMail and
> their newer authorization requirements?


Almost any version of Agent can use an "App Password".

<https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6010255#zippy=%2Cuse-an-app-password>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To help keep your account secure, starting May 30, 2022, Google
will no longer support the use of third-party apps or devices
which ask you to sign in to your Google Account using only your
username and password.
...
Fix problems
Can’t use an app with my Google Account
* ...
* ...
* Use an App Password
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In my experience you need to turn on two factor authentication before
you can create an app password. You can turn off two factor
authentication after creating the app password, and the app password
will still work.

I have been using an app password in Agent with Google's "less secure
access" turned off, for years.


--
Kind regards
Ralph

ζητεῖτε καὶ εὑρήσετε

[KenW]

Can I ask what is an app password please

>I collect my email from GMail using POP3 and with the setting on my GMail
>account to permit "less secure access". I understand this access will become
>unavailable on 30 May. What version(s) of Agent will work with GMail and
>their newer authorization requirements?

KenW

[Optimist]

Google's guidance contains this gem:

Tip: Don’t create an App Password unless the app or device you want to connect to your account
doesn’t have “Sign in with Google.”

Clear as mud!

Anyway, I have set up a workaround in anticipation of this "enhancement".

1. Forward all incoming emails from my gmail account to my ISP supplied account.

2. Use my ISP email accounts instead of gmail in Forte Agent.

3. Enter the gmail address in the "reply-to" in outgoing emails.

[Arthur Conan Doyle]

"Anthony R. Gold" <not-fo...@ahjg.co.uk> wrote:

>Off-thread question, but does anyone know whether Agent's maintenance and/or
>development have been ceased/abandoned? I see the Forté web site remains but
>nothing has been fixed (e.g. open first attachment in composition window) or
>newly added within the past 8 years.

The number of people who know what Usenet is, much less be using it can be
counted on one hand these days making the economics of maintenance impossible.

It has been suggested the the code be open-sourced, but someone reported that
Agent uses third party libraries that retain their copywrite protection.
Attempting to replace those would be difficult.

--
Usenet: The world's first (and best) social network.

[Joe Gwinn]

On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 19:12:51 -0500, Arthur T. <art...@munged.invalid>
wrote:

>In Message-ID:<3dp42h17n4a76dpan...@4ax.com>,

>"Anthony R. Gold" <not-fo...@ahjg.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Off-thread question, but does anyone know whether Agent's maintenance and/or
>>development have been ceased/abandoned? I see the Forté web site remains but
>>nothing has been fixed (e.g. open first attachment in composition window) or
>>newly added within the past 8 years.
>

>I don't believe they've made it official, but many of us think it is
>so.
>
>Some people have been told by Agent Support to try this newsgroup to
>find answers to their problems. I consider that evidence. That goes
>back at least to 2018.

When I got Agent in December 2019, they did make it clear that Agent
was no longer under development, and vectored me to this newsgroup for
support.

Joe Gwinn

[Ralph Fox]

On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 09:32:02 +0000, Optimist wrote:

> Google's guidance contains this gem:
>
> Tip: Don’t create an App Password unless the app or device you want to connect to your account
> doesn’t have “Sign in with Google.”
>
> Clear as mud!

For email programs, that should read, ‘unless the app doesn’t have
login authentication method “OAuth2”’.

* Thunderbird has login authentication method “OAuth2”:
screen-shot: <https://i.imgur.com/dPUg7N3.png>

* Agent does not:
screen-shot: <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=25_5ea62htb.png>


The author of that tip may never have used a real email program.
Sadly, he or she isn't communicating to this target audience.
The author knows web-based services which offer “Sign in with Google”,
“Sign in with Apple”, “Sign in with Facebook”, “Sign in with Twitter”,
etc.


--
Cheers,
Ralph

"There is only one boss, the customer. And he can fire everybody in
the company from the chairman on down, simply by spending his money
somewhere else." -- Sam Walton

[KenW]

On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 12:49:02 +0100, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:

>It's a password that Gmail creates for an app. In this case the app is Agent.
>If you follow Google's instructions it all becomes clear and is almost painless.

Tnx


KenW

[Optimist]

On Sun, 06 Mar 2022 21:39:32 +1300, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote:

>On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 09:32:02 +0000, Optimist wrote:
>
>> Google's guidance contains this gem:
>>
>> Tip: Don’t create an App Password unless the app or device you want to connect to your account
>> doesn’t have “Sign in with Google.”
>>
>> Clear as mud!
>
>
>For email programs, that should read, ‘unless the app doesn’t have
>login authentication method “OAuth2”’.
>
> * Thunderbird has login authentication method “OAuth2”:
> screen-shot: <https://i.imgur.com/dPUg7N3.png>
>
> * Agent does not:
> screen-shot: <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=25_5ea62htb.png>
>
>
>The author of that tip may never have used a real email program.
>Sadly, he or she isn't communicating to this target audience.
>The author knows web-based services which offer “Sign in with Google”,
>“Sign in with Apple”, “Sign in with Facebook”, “Sign in with Twitter”,
>etc.

Thank you for your correction, Ralph. The reason for my "clear as mud" remark was the confusing use
of the triple negative - "don't", "unless", "doesn't". Better to say "Only create an App Password
if... and... ".

[Arthur Conan Doyle]

Arthur Conan Doyle <do...@bother.com> wrote:

>It has been suggested the the code be open-sourced, but someone reported that
>Agent uses third party libraries that retain their copywrite protection.
>Attempting to replace those would be difficult.

And of course I meant copyright...

[Nil]

On 4 Mar 2022, "Anthony R. Gold" <not-fo...@ahjg.co.uk> wrote in
alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent:

> I collect my email from GMail using POP3 and with the setting on my GMail
> account to permit "less secure access". I understand this access will become
> unavailable on 30 May. What version(s) of Agent will work with GMail and
> their newer authorization requirements?

Google says you can use the App Password option but that REQUIRES 2FA at
least once. Better to use OAUTH2 with Forte Free Agent and all mail clients.

[Ralph Fox]

On Wed, 9 Mar 2022 09:07:56 -0500, Nil <redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:

> User-Agent: Xnews/2006.08.24

> Better to use OAUTH2 with Forte Free Agent

   *** TROLL ALERT ***   *** TROLL ALERT ***   *** TROLL ALERT ***


For anyone else reading, there is no OAUTH2 support in Agent.

Compare 

[Optimist]

Ralph

Many thanks for your instructions to set up an "App Password". It has worked a treat!

[Ralph Fox]

On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 10:08:32 +0000, Optimist wrote:

> Many thanks for your instructions to set up an "App Password". It has worked a treat!

FYI twice (only) in the last 6 years my "App Password" has stopped being accepted.
The fix both times was go to <https://www.google.com/accounts/DisplayUnlockCaptcha>
and follow the instructions there.

I found that link on the Gmail help page
<https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7126229#zippy=%2Ci-cant-sign-in-to-my-email-client>
under "I can't sign in to my email client".


--
Kind regards
Ralph

Betere byþ oft feðre þonne oferfeðre.

[Optimist]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:16:37 +1300, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote:

>On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 10:08:32 +0000, Optimist wrote:
>
>> Many thanks for your instructions to set up an "App Password". It has worked a treat!
>
>
>FYI twice (only) in the last 6 years my "App Password" has stopped being accepted.
>The fix both times was go to <https://www.google.com/accounts/DisplayUnlockCaptcha>
>and follow the instructions there.
>
>I found that link on the Gmail help page
><https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7126229#zippy=%2Ci-cant-sign-in-to-my-email-client>
>under "I can't sign in to my email client".

Many thanks again, Ralph, noted in case of need!

Regards

Optimist

[ho...@hope.com]

hi all
where is the server account password stored to log in to my email account


Thanks


Dumb blond

[KenW]

Tools > Servers & Accounts


KenW

[ho...@hope.com]

On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 20:59:24 -0400, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlf...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 15:25:46 -0600, KenW <ken...@invalid.net> declaimed
>the following:

> Of course, that provides an input field for setting the password... It
>will not display an existing password.

Yes you are correct I did know that, I think the other poster was getting confused to what I wanted

>
> The longer answer would be that saved passwords are (for Agent 8, and
>likely a few versions prior) stored in the XML portion of the Agent.INI
>file. Stored in a hex-string that may contain some sort of "encryption" --
>as the one I looked at had bytes that did not map to pure ASCII, which my
>password contains.

I looked in the Agent.INI file BUT could not see any ref to XML at all.

The problem that I have my brother who lives 300 miles from me has had virus attack on his computer
and cannot use Agent BUT I can remote access it and get to the folders etc of Forte Agent
I can download the folders where agent is stored from his computer and install on mine then I can
get the pass word

BUT all depends how big they are so that is why I'm asking where the password is stored.
IF it is in the Agent.ini file could I just download that and then do a new install on mine that
why I could get the password from the input field for setting the password, I know about it is not
shown but no problem to show it.

Many thanks for your help

Dumb blond

[KenW]

There are programs around that wii show what is behind the **** in the
password setting. I have used them in the past before I got "smart"
and wrote it down.


KenW

[ho...@hope.com]

Hi Ken

Yes I know all of that BUT if you look above he is 300 miles away and cannot access Forta Agent so
that is why I want to remote connection to him to download the agent ini files and data so I can
install them on my computer then I can get at the password box, then decode the stars

Do you under stand now?


Dumb Blond

[KenW]

>
>Do you under stand now?

YES


KenW

[Ralph Fox]

On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 09:31:29 +0000, ho...@hope.com wrote:

>>>> where is the server account password stored to log in to my email account
>>>

> I looked in the Agent.INI file BUT could not see any ref to XML at all.

If you want to start a new topic "server info", please use "New Usenet Post".
Please do not use "Reply" and then change the subject (like you did).


The XML part of Agent 8's .INI file begins at "<AddressBook>" and ends at
the last line of the .INI file.

The *inbound* email server account password (for *receiving* email) is in the
part which looks like this, on the line between "<Password>" and "</Password>".
The password is encrypted.

|<PopServers>
| <Server>
| <Uid>1</Uid>
| <Name>hope.example</Name>
| <Host>pop.hope.example</Host>
| <UseSsl>true</UseSsl>
| <LoginProtocol>0</LoginProtocol>
| <Username>ho...@hope.com</Username>
| <SavePassword>true</SavePassword>
| <Password>BA422D9859442C2A842B510BB0E686AE</Password>



--
Kind regards
Ralph

Ὁ βίος βραχύς, ἡ δὲ τέχνη μακρή
𝐕𝐢𝐭𝐚 𝐛𝐫𝐞𝐯𝐢𝐬, 𝐚𝐫𝐬 𝐥𝐨𝐧𝐠𝐚
𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑙𝑦𝑓 𝑠𝑜 𝑠ℎ𝑜𝑟𝑡, 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑐𝑟𝑎𝑓𝑡 𝑠𝑜 𝑙𝑜𝑛𝑔 𝑡𝑜 𝑙𝑒𝑟𝑛𝑒

[ho...@hope.com]

On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 06:53:53 +1300, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 09:31:29 +0000, ho...@hope.com wrote:
>
>>>>> where is the server account password stored to log in to my email account
>>>>
>> I looked in the Agent.INI file BUT could not see any ref to XML at all.
>
>
>If you want to start a new topic "server info", please use "New Usenet Post".
>Please do not use "Reply" and then change the subject (like you did).
>
>
>The XML part of Agent 8's .INI file begins at "<AddressBook>" and ends at
>the last line of the .INI file.
>
>The *inbound* email server account password (for *receiving* email) is in the
>part which looks like this, on the line between "<Password>" and "</Password>".
>The password is encrypted.
>
>|<PopServers>
>| <Server>
>| <Uid>1</Uid>
>| <Name>hope.example</Name>
>| <Host>pop.hope.example</Host>
>| <UseSsl>true</UseSsl>
>| <LoginProtocol>0</LoginProtocol>
>| <Username>ho...@hope.com</Username>
>| <SavePassword>true</SavePassword>
>| <Password>BA422D9859442C2A842B510BB0E686AE</Password>


>If you want to start a new topic "server info", please use "New Usenet Post".
>Please do not use "Reply" and then change the subject (like you did).
>

So sorry about that Ralph, what do you expect from a Dumb Blond

Any way thank you once again for your very detailed info

I have done it and all works fine again for him

Just to let you all no how

Remote connection to him and went to the data folder where the ini file was

I down loaded it to my server

I then down loaded a 30 day trial of agent and installed BUT NOT RAN IT

I then went to the data folder and renamed the Agent .ini file then copied the Agent.ini from his
computer to the data folder

Then ran agent and it put ALL the info in as well as all the folders and email downloads

All I did then was to read the dots in the password box and Then a got the password for him

Then set up a NEW Account on his computer and did the same
All WORKS GREAT

Thank to all who help with this

Dumb Blond
======================

[KenW]

On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 12:58:39 -0400, "Anthony R. Gold"
<not-fo...@ahjg.co.uk> wrote:

>I finally fould time to try this and I am struggling.
>
>1) I turn off Less secure app access
>2) I turn on two step verification
>3) I generate a 16 digit app password
>3) I can now pull mail with those new settings.
>
>The problem is that if I then turn off two step verification the mail client
>fails. And the suggested DisplayUnlockCaptcha page does not help.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>As two step verification is new to me I don't yet know the practical
>implications of having to live with that setting.

Many banks and more and more others are using 2FA. I have most send me
an email code which I enter the answer question. Others use your phone
number (voice or cell) to send a code and others can't make up their
mind.


KenW

[KenW]

On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 14:03:39 -0400, "Anthony R. Gold"

<not-fo...@ahjg.co.uk> wrote:

>On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 12:58:39 -0400, "Anthony R. Gold"
><not-fo...@ahjg.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I finally fould time to try this and I am struggling.
>>
>> 1) I turn off Less secure app access
>> 2) I turn on two step verification
>> 3) I generate a 16 digit app password
>> 3) I can now pull mail with those new settings.
>>
>> The problem is that if I then turn off two step verification the mail client
>> fails. And the suggested DisplayUnlockCaptcha page does not help.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> As two step verification is new to me I don't yet know the practical
>> implications of having to live with that setting.
>

>Apparently the created app password(s) that had been displayed at
>https://myaccount.google.com/apppasswords are no longer shown there and so I
>presume they are deleted/revoked upon switching two step verification off.

I switched to using the web to read the mail. Gmail is not my main
email. I have a private company which I use Agent on.


KenW

[Joe Gwinn]

Beware. This is not true two-factor authentication in that if your
computer or cellphone is corrupted, a hacker will have both factors in
hand, and can go to town.

If both phone and computer are needed, these being physically distinct
devices, then the hacker has a very much harder problem, probably hard
enough to make the attack unprofitable.

If the second factor is something like a RSA SecureID fob, the problem
becomes so difficult that only an intelligence agency has a prayer.
But this has happened, when someone penetrated RSA itself. It will
not have been some random hacker in a basement for sure.

Joe Gwinn

[Ralph Fox]

On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 12:58:39 -0400, Anthony R. Gold wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 07:49:51 +1300, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote:

> I finally fould time to try this and I am struggling.
>
> 1) I turn off Less secure app access
> 2) I turn on two step verification
> 3) I generate a 16 digit app password
> 3) I can now pull mail with those new settings.
>
> The problem is that if I then turn off two step verification the mail client
> fails. And the suggested DisplayUnlockCaptcha page does not help.
>
> Any ideas?

Since I posted that, I have read that things have changed since I last
created an app password. Apparently you now have to leave 2 factor
authentication turned on for your new app password to keep working.

My old app password still worked without 2SV when I posted the above.
(I don't yet know whether turning 2SV on and off again will stop it ]
working.)

> As two step verification is new to me I don't yet know the practical
> implications of having to live with that setting.

It will not affect Agent fetching mail from Gmail.

With 2SV turned on, when I log into Google or Gmail on the web I get
a pop-up on my Android phone asking to confirm that it is me. The
login does not complete until I acknowledge the pop-up on my Android
phone.


--
Kind regards
Ralph

[Ralph Fox]

On Thu, 05 May 2022 14:54:57 +1000, nob...@here.invalid wrote:

> Would it be at all possible for someone to setout concisely what needs to be done to keep Forte
> Agent working with Gmail accounts after the 30th May 2022?


The concise answer is: Replace your main Google/Gmail account password
in Agent with an "App Password" from Google.

screen-shot: <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=25_k4m67h5c_replace-google-password-with-app-password.png>


To get an "App Password" from Google you must sign in to your Google
account on the web, and you must also enable 2-step verification.

REF: See the sub-heading "Use an App Password" here:
<https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6010255#zippy=%2Cuse-an-app-password>

REF: See "Sign in with App Passwords"
<https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/185833>


--
Kind regards
Ralph

Ne sceal man to ær forht ne to ær fægen. -- Durham Proverbs #23.